Tumblr Debates Freedom of Speech at Oxford, Says You Must Censor Privileged White CIS Men To Achieve
234 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Maloof?;48542745]Also bear in mind that this comes from one of Oxford's debating societies - the point of the debate is to try to make a solid point on a specific topic. You're given a topic and told you must take a certain point of view - hence the often outrageous reasoning expressed in some of these debate videos[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure this is the case here though.
For example Hitchins who speaks before her appears to argue his honest position based on what his Wikipedia summary says.
The particular debate society also seems to bring in speakers instead of assigning positions, at least if I don't misunderstand their video description blurb.
Brooks' name appears to be too common to find her and the description has no details, so it's likely fairly difficult to tell which position she otherwise holds in this regard here from other material.
However, from what she says in the argument itself and the reference to "our website", I'm 100% certain these are her genuine views.
Sargon of Akkad is going to have a field day with this, I guarantee it.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;48544366]Vocal minorities are the ones who get shit done most of the time, since they're loud and heard by people in power. A silent majority doesn't matter if a vocal minority is heard. Be you a feminist, anti feminist, mra or whatever other crap, everyone should speak up against shit like this. Instead all you get is "they're a vocal minority" and nothing gets done. Then slowly universities get poisoned and it starts to spread.[/QUOTE]
i'm not really sure what you're getting at
i certainly speak up against this stuff, i just don't see the point in doing so on facepunch because people are way too quick to demonize the entire movement. saying they're a vocal minority is a bad thing because it doesn't get stuff done? how is going the other way and acting like feminism as a whole is a bad thing, ignoring all of the good causes it fights for any better?
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;48545077]i'm not really sure what you're getting at
i certainly speak up against this stuff, i just don't see the point in doing so on facepunch because people are way too quick to demonize the entire movement. saying they're a vocal minority is a bad thing because it doesn't get stuff done? how is going the other way and acting like feminism as a whole is a bad thing, ignoring all of the good causes it fights for any better?[/QUOTE]
He's saying, if they're the vocal minority, and the majority are silent, who the fuck do you think people are listening to.
[QUOTE=AaronM202;48545103]He's saying, if they're the vocal minority, and the majority are silent, who the fuck do you think people are listening to.[/QUOTE]
the majority isn't silent. the majority is just more moderate so the media, as well as the people who were already biased against feminists to begin with, choose not to pay as much attention to them, or else they don't have an interesting story to write or something to be angry about
[editline]26th August 2015[/editline]
alright so, the argument is that saying they're a vocal minority doesn't get anything done. do we need to discredit them more, then? or do we need to give more credit to the sensible ones? if i'm guilty of not getting outraged enough over radical feminists then can't i say that people who don't do anything to shift the focus to the more moderate ones aren't exactly contributing to anything either? why, instead of saying "don't pay attention to these feminists" and leaving it at that, aren't you saying "pay attention to [I]those[/I] instead"?
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;48544279]nobody really tries denying that they exist
people just say they're a vocal minority
i've probably said this about a thousand times tho but even when i call you out directly on the shit you say you proceed to make the exact same posts like a week later so tbh i'm not sure why i bother
if that's some sort of crazy strategy then gj it's stupid but it's working[/QUOTE]
Here's the thing. Feminism is like a cake shop. And these insane "Censor white people because they're privileged" have stuck their dick in one of the cakes. Most people are going to say "I don't want that cake, it's had a dick in it." and look for another cake. Meanwhile you're shouting "It's fine! It was only a small dick! Not all cakes are like that!"
We know mate, we know. We're talking about the cake that has a dick in it because someone stuck their dick in it, not because we think all cakes have had dicks in them.
[QUOTE=AaronM202;48545103]He's saying, if they're the vocal minority, and the majority are silent, who the fuck do you think people are listening to.[/QUOTE]
How do you propose we pay less attention to the extremists?
I've posted examples of moderate, normal feminists. Pay attention to those. Stop watching videos of radical feminists - you only give them attention. Watch videos of less radical feminists and you encourage their content.
There are [i]so many[/i] feminist authors that are outspoken about male issues, that are outspoken about how privilege actually works, that are outspoken and [i]clear[/i] about gender identity.
But nobody here is interested in hearing that - they want the drama, not the theory. Stop watching videos that incite professional shit-stirrers.
The majority isn't silent at all. There are literally thousands of feminist movements in the world. You can support people like Malala Yousafzai and donate there and bring attention to her courage... or you can go on YouTube and watch idiots ramble about how straight white men are the devil.
More people know about Malala Yousafzai than people like Anita Sarkeesian. Focus [i]your[/i] attention to important feminists tackling major social injustices, instead of focusing on privileged ones that are tackling minor symptoms of social gender identity. If you don't do that you're just empowering the people you hate.
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;48545440]Here's the thing. Feminism is like a cake shop. And these insane "Censor white people because they're privileged" have stuck their dick in one of the cakes. Most people are going to say "I don't want that cake, it's had a dick in it." and look for another cake. Meanwhile you're shouting "It's fine! It was only a small dick! Not all cakes are like that!"
We know mate, we know. We're talking about the cake that has a dick in it because someone stuck their dick in it, not because we think all cakes have had dicks in them.[/QUOTE]
here's another analogy: feminism is like a classic TV show with some great seasons and some really bad ones. some people say you can't enjoy the good episodes because the shitty season that came afterwards ruined the series, but i say that's unbelievably stupid because the original thing is still there, except it's a lot easier to get outraged by how "they're ruining the show!" than it is to recognize what they're doing right
[QUOTE=itisjuly;48544366]Vocal minorities are the ones who get shit done most of the time, since they're loud and heard by people in power. A silent majority doesn't matter if a vocal minority is heard. Be you a feminist, anti feminist, mra or whatever other crap, everyone should speak up against shit like this. Instead all you get is "they're a vocal minority" and nothing gets done. Then slowly universities get poisoned and it starts to spread.[/QUOTE]
Except compared to the also vocal majority they have basically done fuck all. Like I get that people on the internet are more focused on internet stuff so when people like in this video are affecting stuff like your game reviewers or censoring stuff on a single website you might feel the effect closer to home. I mean I can go back to earlier feminism and talk about how they gained the right to vote, get land, and helped the civil rights movement but to help your viewpoint I can list some more recent accomplishments (most are going to be American based, sorry.)
They brought the issue of gender discrimination up and it has become so prevalent that feminist are now one of the most known activist groups with some of the highest number of members. This has also led to state ratified gender discrimination laws to make women more akin to male rights.
They have been slowly closing the wage gap between men and women.
They have somewhat removed the stigma that women can be independent and be able to work. Also included in this is that women can be sexually active without becoming outcasts in society.
They have fought for the enforcement of the Rode v Wade case (the one that constitutionally protected abortions.)
They brought to the mainstream attention the fact that backalley abortions take place and are extremely dangerous to a women. Led to the idea that if the safe way of doing abortions in made illegal all that will happen is more women, and their fetuses, will die rather than just the fetus.
They have legitimized women athletics, a good example is the women's world cup that just took place this summer.
They have made sexual assault and rape on college campuses a major issue, most colleges now have days or weeks dedicated to rape awareness and have policies in place for serious consequences if a rapist is found guilty.
Women have recently been more accepted in government positions and have become very real contenders in the upcoming presidential race for both major parties.
They really pushed for lgtbiaq+ rights and legalization of said marriages.
Broke the common tradition of what marriage is and the idea of a "nuclear household"
Birth control pills are now covered by the affordable care act, giving low income women who wouldn't necessarily be able to afford healthcare the ability to use contraceptives.
They work for workers rights, of both sexes.
They have legitimized women in the fields of STEM and have shown great accomplishments in said fields.
Have proved you do not need to be some sex symbol to get ahead in the entertainment industry.
Have advocated for "safe space" clubs and bars in cities around the world that have zero tolerance policies on sexual harassment, making more women want to go out and party without the fear of harassment.
The list goes on and on and I can say more if you want. The reason I don't call this type of feminist a "vocal minority" is because their voice is being drowned out by the much more vocal majority.
[img]https://i.gyazo.com/7724c64d43b87098edac104f7b832fb1.png[/img]
Way better description of the video.
Can we lock her up in a room and tell her not to complain about it because that's how we chose to live?
God damn, this fucking land whale sounds like she's about to burst out in tears, she feels like MLK but really she's a complaining whiny bitch who needs to get some dick , I guess
[QUOTE=Siemz;48545923]Can we lock her up in a room and tell her not to complain about it because that's how we chose to live?
God damn, this fucking land whale sounds like she's about to burst out in tears, she feels like MLK but really she's a complaining whiny bitch who needs to get some dick , I guess[/QUOTE]
I know you disagree with her but saying she is a is a "land whale" who "needs some dick" is just fueling her fire. Literally calling people names in this activist group does nothing but make them more vocal.
How she manages to sound so mad for 9 minutes is a miracle in its own. [I]I mean[/I] - I'm fairly sure that you'd have more success getting your message through if you just kept your cool.
Also, treat the listeners with some respect, not with an angry "I'll get to you later!"
Be nice dammit. :v:
[QUOTE=RichyZ;48546076]it doesn't really work when its used against a thing you're for[/QUOTE]
But it does work though. Not all cakes have had dicks in them.
Although I wouldn't go to a cake shop where people regularly stick their dicks in cakes, but that might just be me.
[QUOTE=gudman;48546163]Although I wouldn't go to a cake shop where people regularly stick their dicks in cakes, but that might just be me.[/QUOTE]
that's kind of why it's a bad analogy
people don't disregard entire ideologies because there's a few bad elements in it
if that was the case nobody would be affiliated with anything
[QUOTE=gudman;48546163]But it does work though. Not all cakes have had dicks in them.
Although I wouldn't go to a cake shop where people regularly stick their dicks in cakes, but that might just be me.[/QUOTE]
The other thing is that gamergate is such a low priority on an actual feminists agenda that it is laughable. Women are being overly sexualized in video games and that is where we kind of stop. The thing is, people know that if you want your 15 minutes of fame on the internet, the best way of doing that is to piss off the rest of the internet. Seeing how most of the active forum/message board users also play video games and think of it as a serious hobby/more than a hobby, if you want to get known fast, you will take up the mantra of being anti-whatever gamergate preaches. Like if you walk up to random feminists on the street they will be like "what the fuck is gamergate?" because its such a non issue to us. Those who make it an issue are either dedicated trolls or just people who want fame. So this analogy doesn't work for the whole of the feminist community because of the sheer small amount of people who ACTUALLY, note: mean not trolling and not just trying to get fame, give a shit about the movement. Like why should we care about "ethics in video game journalism" or whatever that laughable movement is about when there are much more, non hobby based, social inequalities in society.
Also all the analogy proves is that people like this exist. Yea they do good job I can't believe you realized someone is actually real! I've made like 3 analogies already that show that this argument is really shit for the harassment common feminists get on a regular basis.
[QUOTE=RichyZ;48546076]it doesn't really work when its used against a thing you're for, for example
it's really dumb to base your judgements on a very old movement based on tumblr feminists
yes they exist, feminists who are actually getting shit done don't care about them because they dont need to, the civil rights movement doesn't need to apologize for blacklivesmatter troublemakers[/QUOTE]
Yeah, those are the other cakes. Feminism was the shop in my example, not the cake.
[editline]26th August 2015[/editline]
I was saying you shouldn't make excuses for this stupid bullshit when there are legitimate forms of feminism you can go to instead. In literally every thread like this you have people coming in to defend the stupid shit people say because they claim to be feminist. You don't have to support idiots because they claim to hold the same beliefs you do, and you don't have to eat the dick cake because you like cake. Point to other feminists (actually fucking link them not make stupid excuses), don't dance around the idiots because you can only see the world as all or nothing, black and white.
[QUOTE=RichyZ;48546076]
it's really dumb to base your judgements on a very old movement based on tumblr feminists[/QUOTE]
Feminism is like the Republican party. Sure they were the party of abolitionism, anti-racism, pacifism and non-interventionism at points in their history but yeah...
[QUOTE=Aphtonites;48541095]a still image doesn't do enough justice
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/goOAf1n.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]
[death rattle]
On one hand my ears still ring from that screeching harpy, on the other hand I haven't laughed like that in quite a while.
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;48546478]Yeah, those are the other cakes. Feminism was the shop in my example, not the cake.
[editline]26th August 2015[/editline]
I was saying you shouldn't make excuses for this stupid bullshit when there are legitimate forms of feminism you can go to instead. In literally every thread like this you have people coming in to defend the stupid shit people say because they claim to be feminist. You don't have to support idiots because they claim to hold the same beliefs you do, and you don't have to eat the dick cake because you like cake. Point to other feminists (actually fucking link them not make stupid excuses), don't dance around the idiots because you can only see the world as all or nothing, black and white.[/QUOTE]
Zero people in this thread have defended this woman.
Seriously, go back, read the responses. Everyone's said she's an idiot.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;48546595]Feminism is like the Republican party. Sure they were the party of abolitionism, anti-racism, pacifism and non-interventionism at points in their history but yeah...[/QUOTE]
Except that republican party became the democratic party of today. Also Its not like every single feminist is a part of this radical movement on tumblr to make men subordinate. This is like me saying the people who shot up Columbine played Counter Strike so that means all people who play Counter Strike want to shoot up schools. Come on man there is no way you are that thick that you think one of the largest activist movements is all a bunch of crazy women who want to kill all men.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;48546640]Zero people in this thread have defended this woman.
Seriously, go back, read the responses. Everyone's said she's an idiot.[/QUOTE]
Yeah you're right. There are a lot of people who are just repeating "Not all feminists are like this" though. Which everyone knows.
[QUOTE=splenda;48546351]Like why should we care about "ethics in video game journalism" or whatever that laughable movement is about when there are much more, non hobby based, social inequalities in society.[/QUOTE]
do we really, [I]really[/I] have to start this shit again
fucking shitposters smh
[QUOTE=Diet Kane;48546832]do we really, [I]really[/I] have to start this shit again
fucking shitposters smh[/QUOTE]
Was just pointing it out because he made a point of bringing it up. To back up my statement I had to use some movement that people on a gaming internet forum would know of. Calm down I'm not trying to start an argument on your movement or whatever. If I wanted to do that I would post in the thread dedicated to said movement.
[QUOTE=Diet Kane;48546832]do we really, [I]really[/I] have to start this shit again
fucking shitposters smh[/QUOTE]
"Lol gamergate"
I've never understood why people make fun of people that care about videogame related issues on a videogame forum. Doesn't make sense.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;48546909]"Lol gamergate"
I've never understood why people make fun of people that care about videogame related issues on a videogame forum. Doesn't make sense.[/QUOTE]
Because gamergaters act like it's some morally superior thing to yell and cry about someone on the internet not liking their favorite game.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;48546925]Because gamergaters act like it's some morally superior thing to yell and cry about someone on the internet not liking their favorite game.[/QUOTE]
nice one, nice.
Gonna use the one about how I'm a fat white straight misogynerd who commits terrorist attacks on women next? Go ahead, I can wait.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;48546909]"Lol gamergate"
I've never understood why people make fun of people that care about videogame related issues on a videogame forum. Doesn't make sense.[/QUOTE]
Except I was trying to explain the viewpoint of most feminists. You may care about gamergate or whatever and that's fine, more power to you. What I'm saying is that in the broad inequalities in the world, ethics in the journalistic coverage of a hobby is next to meaningless to this activist group. If it is ever brought up in discussion, people either go "wtf is that" or they laugh about it. I'm not trying to belittle your precious movement and I apologize for my wording in the last sentence of the first paragraph in my post.
[QUOTE=splenda;48546991]I'm not trying to belittle your precious movement and I apologize for my wording in the last sentence of the first paragraph in my post.[/QUOTE]
If this could be any more condescending, my monitor would start producing condensation.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;48546925]Because gamergaters act like it's some morally superior thing to yell and cry about someone on the internet not liking their favorite game.[/QUOTE]
Even if you hate gamergate at least do enough research to figure out that's not what its about anyways.
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