What does everyone think about "complex" verses "simple" music - General

I love watching a group of amateur musicians and non-musicians run around in circles, trying to talk about music without having the vocabulary and perspective that would make such a conversation worthwhile.

[QUOTE=Mane;25651814]I love watching a group of amateur musicians and non-musicians run around in circles, trying to talk about music without having the vocabulary and perspective that would make such a conversation worthwhile.[/QUOTE] [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0d/Yellow_star.gif[/img][B] I here present our first nominee for the award "Biggest Douche in the Universe"![/B] [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0d/Yellow_star.gif[/img]

[QUOTE=Eluveitie;25651759]I'm sure it's something to do with guitar chords. The way you figure them out or something. I remember my music teacher touching on it briefly while we learnt chords a few years ago.[/QUOTE] I understand what modal scales are, but I don't see what the point is in pointing out that a band often plays in certain modal scale. Is it significant because most bands play with the Ionian and Aeolian scale? I don't quite get it, anyone can use a different scale and base their chords around that scale. What I'm most confused about right now is the right way of talking about modal tunes. "This band usually plays in the Dorian mode" doesn't sound right to me because I don't think it describes anything about the key. "This band usually plays in Dorian" would sound right. Maybe that's what I should say. [editline]26th October 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=Mane;25651814]I love watching a group of amateur musicians and non-musicians run around in circles, trying to talk about music without having the vocabulary and perspective that would make such a conversation worthwhile.[/QUOTE] I'd like to hear your opinion. Don't feel any need to explain any musical vocabulary, just go all out.

[QUOTE=Mane;25651814]I love watching a group of amateur musicians and non-musicians run around in circles, trying to talk about music without having the vocabulary and perspective that would make such a conversation worthwhile.[/QUOTE] that's funny cause I love watching people try to look cool on the internet

[QUOTE=TehKaboose;25638424] Why would you feel bad for me? I´m happy listening to what I listen to. [/QUOTE] I feel bad because you missing out on a lot of cool music because it's in 4/4 And I never said you weren't happy lol [editline]26th October 2010[/editline] [quote=absinthe;25652078]that's funny cause i love watching people try to look cool on the internet[/quote] oh god daaaaaaymmm

I don't think the technicality of music is something that should be used to judge how tasteful it is. There's great music in both areas. Also if it wasn't for tasteless shredding at the hands of guitarists this whole argument wouldn't exist much. People don't listen to Rachmaninov and go 'OMFG SHREDDER THERE'S NO SOUL IN YOUR MUSIC'. People should just be open

[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;25646494]A man who applauds the complexity of any given piece of music while having no experience as a musician is a lot like a 12 year old talking about how sweet a sports car is. Cute, but fucking meaningless as an opinion.[/QUOTE] And that´s a lot like saying you can´t critisize a song if you can´t make a better one yourself. Also, opinions are always meaningless. And on the subject of art music, while everything else is constantly evolving does it seem to anyone else that music (and art generally, really) is just regressing? I blame radio for this. Now that radio is the easiest an quickest path to success and radio only plays songs that are easily likeable ("simple") and less than 5 minutes long, it has brought popular music to a complete standstill. It doesn´t encourage experimentation or generally giving much thought to your music at all. Just compare the amount of thought put into their music by classical composers and most modern "composers". Shit, some of these guys don´t even make their own music (Rap, Hip-Hop, I´m looking at you). The goal for most musicians now seems to be to just spew as many songs as quickly as possible and then make them into an album to make a shitload of money. It´s all about sticking to the status quo and making money now. People don´t do what they want to do, they do what they think the general audience and recording studios wants them to do. My views are probably biased as fuck, but I don´t really care. This is how I feel right now. And I´m talking about modern popular music now. Of course there are those guys who give big fuck you to everyone and do what ever they feel like doing, but those guys will make less money than the piece of shit corporate tools.

I'm pretty sure rappers and hip-hop artists make their own music. [editline]26th October 2010[/editline] [IMG]http://www.soulculture.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Death-Is-Silent.jpg[/IMG] case in point.

Amazing album :3:

definitely, if that album isn't a work of art, ain't nothing that is.

[QUOTE=Eluveitie;25651759]I'm sure it's something to do with guitar chords. The way you figure them out or something. I remember my music teacher touching on it briefly while we learnt chords a few years ago.[/QUOTE] Actually they are "modes" Modes are the precursors to the modern diatonic scales we have today, developed in medieval times. They sound fucking awesome. [QUOTE=strayebyrd;25653942]I'm pretty sure rappers and hip-hop artists make their own music. [editline]26th October 2010[/editline] [img_thumb]http://www.soulculture.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Death-Is-Silent.jpg[/img_thumb] case in point.[/QUOTE] That is actually really cool stuff. Thank you for bringing my attention to this. I've been looking for some rap that isn't all "gangstas and hos" or just outright shit.

[QUOTE=strayebyrd;25654022]definitely, if that album isn't a work of art, ain't nothing that is.[/QUOTE] How did it manage to get that popular in so little time?

[QUOTE=Akayz;25654031]How did it manage to get that popular in so little time?[/QUOTE] not sure, I heard about it 'through the grapevine' as it were, and after listening to one song I knew it was something special. [editline]26th October 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=kitthehacker;25654023] That is actually really cool stuff. Thank you for bringing my attention to this. I've been looking for some rap that isn't all "gangstas and hos" or just outright shit.[/QUOTE] No problem, I feel it is my duty to show the world what hip-hop can be like.

On my first listen I really hated it, now I think its pretty sweet, i'm sure soon I'll be worshiping them. :P

[QUOTE=Shibbey;25646208]There's a difference between four or five dudes and a group the size of a small town.[/QUOTE] Yeah but Bach himself wrote the whole piece. [editline]26th October 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=Pepin;25646974]I think a lot of people over exaggerate the complexity of a lot of musical pieces. Imagine a hobbyist who makes electronic gadgets. He makes something, and it looks very confusing and complex, but it works and is impressive. Really, the thing he made isn't really complex at all, but to a person who doesn't know electronics, it appears to be complex. If someone who knew a good bit about electronics were to look at it and analyze it, they'll find that it's actually pretty simple and they can explain how just about everything in it works.[/QUOTE] Great analogy, explains everything about 'complex' music.

[QUOTE=Pepin;25646974]I think a lot of people over exaggerate the complexity of a lot of musical pieces. Imagine a hobbyist who makes electronic gadgets. He makes something, and it looks very confusing and complex, but it works and is impressive. Really, the thing he made isn't really complex at all, but to a person who doesn't know electronics, it appears to be complex. If someone who knew a good bit about electronics were to look at it and analyze it, they'll find that it's actually pretty simple and they can explain how just about everything in it works. I'm completely confused as to what that is supposed to mean...[/QUOTE] It just means that a lot of people find it to be complex, but to me, knowing that it's usually the same mode of the guitar makes it a lot easier for me to comprehend.

[QUOTE=TehKaboose;25653821]And that´s a lot like saying you can´t critisize a song if you can´t make a better one yourself.[/QUOTE] Not really, it just means I reserve the right to ignore you for talking about shit you know nothing about. [QUOTE=TehKaboose;25653821]Also, opinions are always meaningless.[/QUOTE] And yet here people are, arguing over them. [QUOTE=TehKaboose;25653821]And on the subject of art music, while everything else is constantly evolving does it seem to anyone else that music (and art generally, really) is just regressing?[/QUOTE] Oh hey look it's this stupid tirade again hey culture has always been dying since the very first old guy existed man them agrarian asshats are destroying the mighty traditions of our hunter-gatherer mud-based percussion music with these newfangled reed whistles for like 10 seconds I thought you had something of worth to say about the modern music industry but then you went back to hating rap the quickest way to demonstrate yourself as having nothing to contribute to a conversation on art is to pick a stupid scapegoat for a bunch of perceived problems so good job getting that out in the open

[QUOTE=TehKaboose;25653821]And on the subject of art music, while everything else is constantly evolving does it seem to anyone else that music (and art generally, really) is just regressing?[/QUOTE] Music is bigger than ever. There are more genres and subgenres than ever before. There are more groups and artists than ever. More music is being written, produced, and released than ever. Music is more available than it has ever been before. But yeah I guess you're right.. music is dying.

[QUOTE=kitthehacker;25654023] That is actually really cool stuff. Thank you for bringing my attention to this. I've been looking for some rap that isn't all "gangstas and hos" or just outright shit.[/QUOTE] man that's fucked up you've probably have not even heard one of the most fantastic rappers in the genre: MF DOOM [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZAXE3-srfM[/media]

[QUOTE=Rad McCool;25663756]Music is bigger than ever. There are more genres and subgenres than ever before. There are more groups and artists than ever. More music is being written, produced, and released than ever. Music is more available than it has ever been before. But yeah I guess you're right.. music is dying.[/QUOTE] The whole open mindedness of the people is dying. I guarantee an average person's record collection 20/30 years ago had far more variety of genre than nowadays. There isn't as much care for music in terms of what is out there. Yet it may begin to expand as more are realising how great it is to explore it in detail rather than being drawn to like something like a sheep.

[QUOTE=Akayz;25667808] I guarantee an average person's record collection 20/30 years ago had far more variety of genre than nowadays. [/QUOTE] Heh just make sure you don't check my dad's record library METAL METAL METAL THRASH METAL METAL NWOBHM MORE METAL

Sounds like a small part of the facepunch music section

i hate repetition a little is fine as long as there is always a feeling of progression

[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;25663376]Not really, it just means I reserve the right to ignore you for talking about shit you know nothing about. And yet here people are, arguing over them. Oh hey look it's this stupid tirade again hey culture has always been dying since the very first old guy existed man them agrarian asshats are destroying the mighty traditions of our hunter-gatherer mud-based percussion music with these newfangled reed whistles for like 10 seconds I thought you had something of worth to say about the modern music industry but then you went back to hating rap the quickest way to demonstrate yourself as having nothing to contribute to a conversation on art is to pick a stupid scapegoat for a bunch of perceived problems so good job getting that out in the open[/QUOTE] Feel free to ignore me all you want, but makes you think I know nothing about music? I don´t know about you but we´re [b]sharing[/b] our opinions. There is a difference. Arguing over opinions is just plain retarded. And I wasn´t hating on (all) rap. I know pure and thoughtful rap exists (as seen above) but most of the mainstream rappers just rap about money, bitches, cars and jewelery onto a pre-made song and it makes it their song. Also, the 18th century was and is really considered the "golden age" of music, look it up. Music now might be bigger than ever, but it´s not only about quantity.

[QUOTE=strayebyrd;25676095]Heh just make sure you don't check my dad's record library METAL METAL METAL THRASH METAL METAL NWOBHM MORE METAL[/QUOTE] He must have ONE pop oriented album.

[QUOTE=TehKaboose;25680004]And I wasn´t hating on (all) rap. I know pure and thoughtful rap exists (as seen above) but most of the mainstream rappers just rap about money, bitches, cars and jewelery onto a pre-made song and it makes it their song. Also, the 18th century was and is really considered the "golden age" of music, look it up. Music now might be bigger than ever, but it´s not only about quantity.[/QUOTE] Sorry to burst your bubble, but music made in the 18th century was the popular music back then. The composers made the music for the big audiences, and it had to be easily approachable, just like todays pop music.

[QUOTE=whitespace;25681460]Sorry to burst your bubble, but music made in the 18th century was the popular music back then. The composers made the music for the big audiences, and it had to be easily approachable, just like todays pop music.[/QUOTE] That´s my whole point, popular music is getting more effortless all the time. I don´t know shit about 18th century music business, but I´m sure it was pretty minimal. I don´t think the great composers of the 18th century were really aiming for mainstream success, they just made what ever they wanted and that became the popular music, because there wasn´t any competition. After all, the only ones making music were the prodigys and only ones listening to music were the nobles. Nowadays every dumbfuck can and will make music and everyone can afford it, thus he decrease in quality. Lets just compare the hour-long multi-layered sinfonies that took years to compose with the 3 minute four-chord bullshit composed in 5 minutes that you see everywhere. You can´t deny there isn´t a difference in the thoughtfulness and quality. It´s like people don´t even try anymore because it simply isn´t worth the effort, because no one would hear hour-long symphonies anywhere or even bother listening to them. Music as an form of art is really dying because of this, can´t you people see. And shit, I don´t even know why this matters but I just feel it does and it saddens me... And I guess I feel like the prog movement in the 70s was an attempt to rescurrect music or something. I don´t even know. This is probably pretty retarded.

[QUOTE=TehKaboose;25682650]That´s my whole point, popular music is getting more effortless all the time. I don´t know shit about 18th century music business, but I´m sure it was pretty minimal. [b]1.[/b] I don´t think the great composers of the 18th century were really aiming for mainstream success, they just made what ever they wanted and that became the popular music, because there wasn´t any competition. [b]2.[/b] After all, the only ones making music were the prodigys and only ones listening to music were the nobles. Nowadays every dumbfuck can and will make music and everyone can afford it, [b]3.[/b] thus he decrease in quality. Lets just compare the hour-long multi-layered sinfonies that took years to compose with the [b]4.[/b] 3 minute four-chord bullshit composed in 5 minutes that you see everywhere. You can´t deny there isn´t a difference in the thoughtfulness and quality. It´s like people don´t even try anymore [b]5.[/b] because it simply isn´t worth the effort, because no one would hear hour-long [b]6.[/b] sinfonies anywhere or even bother listening to them. [b]7.[/b] Music as an form of art is really dying because of this, can´t you people see. And shit, I don´t even know why this matters but I just feel it does and it saddens me... And I guess I feel like the prog movement in the 70s was an attempt to rescurrect music or something. I don´t even know. [b]8.[/b] This is probably pretty retarded.[/QUOTE] 1. Composers wrote music because they were paid to do so by the very nobles who listened to it 2. History has thankfully only carried on the truly great composers' names and works this far, you're looking through musical history with rose tinted glasses and modern day ignorance to the times 3. There is no way to measure a decrease in musical quality. Every year bands release music which can and will be considered genre defining. Music is continuing to grow, it's up to you to find the bands you want to listen to and the music you want to hear. Don't write music off because you have more options to sift through before you can find it 4. Few songs, even hits on the radio are written in 5 minutes. The guys who write those songs know as much about modern music as classical composers knew about music in that era 5. People put in the effort all the time, there are hour long songs, concept records rivalling Holst's The Planet's Suite, many musicians pushing the boundaries of what we accept as music all the time 6. It's spelled "symphonies", and the majority are shorter than an hour 7. I really can't see what you're saying. Music is simply tuned noise, chaos tamed by composition. To say that music is dying would surely imply that people don't care about it or stop making it. Just because the majority of people produce music you don't want to listen to doesn't mean music is dying. It means either learn to enjoy them or move the fuck on and find something you do. 8. Yes it is.

whoa. it took me all this time to realize that the OP meant "versus", not "verses"

[QUOTE=professor cool.;25683407]whoa. it took me all this time to realize that the OP meant "versus", not "verses"[/QUOTE] Haha, didn't see that, nor do I care for it.