[QUOTE=The Rifleman;52128089]Where do people stand on the 9mm vs 5.7x28mm as a carry? I mean it seems like the traditional "slow and big" vs "fast and small" but I feel like looking at ballistics data the 5.7x28mm, with the easier recoil and lightweight can be more beneficial than a 9mm. Thoughts?[/QUOTE]
i suspect the 5.7 will over penetrate
but i dont have any evidence
5.7 will overpen hard and is going to have less of a wounding/hydrostatic effect
[QUOTE=Fire Kracker;52132161]i suspect the 5.7 will over penetrate
but i dont have any evidence[/QUOTE]
The guns that use 5.7x28 are stupidly huge. Basically, open carry or look like you got a severe tumor. So no one really CCs it. As a home defense option, it will behave similarly to a 5.56 rifle in the event of hitting drywall. The bullet is too light to go far after hitting something.
Different story if you get your hands on some of that sweet sweet banned AP ammo.
I wonder how well it would work if they made a 5.7 projectile similar to M855A1? Steel penetrator tip with enough material to be effective but not enough to qualify as an armor-piercing projectile, and possibly set up so that the main body of the projectile separates and acts like a hollow point.
[QUOTE=Lone_Star94;52132176]The guns that use 5.7x28 are stupidly huge. Basically, open carry or look like you got a severe tumor. So no one really CCs it. As a home defense option, it will behave similarly to a 5.56 rifle in the event of hitting drywall. The bullet is too light to go far after hitting something.
Different story if you get your hands on some of that sweet sweet banned AP ammo.[/QUOTE]
It'd be fun as hell though to be a guard walking around with a P90 on a sling inside your suit. You'd feel so badass and ready for anything.
[QUOTE=The Rifleman;52132670]It'd be fun as hell though to be a guard walking around with a P90 on a sling inside your suit. You'd feel so badass and ready for anything.[/QUOTE]
It would wear off after like the first hour of the first day on-post. Trust me.
Guard duty is 99.99% boredom, stress and mind-numbing bullshit, .01% "FUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCK".
[QUOTE=Psychokitten;52132692]It would wear off after like the first hour of the first day on-post. Trust me.
Guard duty is 99.99% boredom, stress and mind-numbing bullshit, .01% "FUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCK".[/QUOTE]
I fantasize weapons and carrying them too much hahaha. The cool factor, and aesthetics to me is just as important as the function ;)
[QUOTE=The Rifleman;52132670]It'd be fun as hell though to be a guard walking around with a P90 on a sling inside your suit. You'd feel so badass and ready for anything.[/QUOTE]
I should have clarified, I meant handguns, not the PDWs.
[QUOTE=Lone_Star94;52132973]I should have clarified, I meant handguns, not the PDWs.[/QUOTE]
That's true, carrying a five-seven would be insane
Got my hands on the new FN 509 today, I'll post pics when I get home. First impression is meh, basically an FNS with smaller mag release buttons and a different look.
[QUOTE=Psychokitten;52132516]I wonder how well it would work if they made a 5.7 projectile similar to M855A1? Steel penetrator tip with enough material to be effective but not enough to qualify as an armor-piercing projectile, and possibly set up so that the main body of the projectile separates and acts like a hollow point.[/QUOTE]
Wouldnt make a difference. The point of 5.7 is to be able to pen body armor in a compact full auto package. Firing AP rounds at someone without armor is dumb
So I've got all these small pistol primers I punched out of a bunch of spent 9mm brass. Is there anything useful I can do with them, or should I just toss them in the garbage?
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52128573]If someone carries a five-seven, does their mom drop them off at Chucky Cheese's, or does the short bus drop them off?
You would have to be seriously special to CC a 5.7 pistol. The whole point of 5.7 is to pierce body armor and still carry some force to do damage. You literally can not get your hands on 5.7 AP ammo, and 5.7 is outclassed by pretty much any handgun caliber.
Saying that the marginal decrease in recoil is an advantage is like saying 22lr is a viable carry round because it has no recoil. There is a reason FN doesnt make compact and subcompact versions of the five seven.[/QUOTE]
I'm not so sure. The round tumbles like a boss and 20 holes with curving wound channels and with limited recoil is potentially not bad.
[editline]21st April 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52133153]Wouldnt make a difference. The point of 5.7 is to be able to pen body armor in a compact full auto package. Firing AP rounds at someone without armor is dumb[/QUOTE]
The point is to have a cartridge that remains effective against targets regardless of body armor. It has some interesting ballistic qualities.
[QUOTE=Psychokitten;52134373]So I've got all these small pistol primers I punched out of a bunch of spent 9mm brass. Is there anything useful I can do with them, or should I just toss them in the garbage?[/QUOTE]
Toss em, they are worthless. not even for scrap.
[QUOTE=Lone_Star94;52134460]Toss em, they are worthless. not even for scrap.[/QUOTE]
Shame.
On the plus side, I've got a bunch of deprimed 9mm brass. I won't be reloading that for awhile yet though, I'm going to start with 5.56.
The M39 I picked up today is a beautiful rifle, just gorgeous.
But it fucking reeks. I had to put it somewhere else because it made my room smell like a finnish bog. That is saying something, too; this house smells like old people, dog, and weed.
[QUOTE=GunFox;52134376]I'm not so sure. The round tumbles like a boss and 20 holes with curving wound channels and with limited recoil is potentially not bad.
[editline]21st April 2017[/editline]
The point is to have a cartridge that remains effective against targets regardless of body armor. It has some interesting ballistic qualities.[/QUOTE]
You still have the issue of a small low weight bullet over penetrating like hell. You can put 20 holes in a guy but its not going to count for shit if you cant put him in shock.
Ive stated this before, but there is a very good reason theres no compact five seven.
[editline]22nd April 2017[/editline]
Theres a trillion 9mm's out there that have the same or marginally less capacity than the five seven, so theres no reason to choose a five seven over anything else for CC
[QUOTE=CoilingTesla;52134686]The M39 I picked up today is a beautiful rifle, just gorgeous.
But it fucking reeks. I had to put it somewhere else because it made my room smell like a finnish bog. That is saying something, too; this house smells like old people, dog, and weed.[/QUOTE]
hit it with ballistol or something.
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52128644]Like you said it would be useless. 5.7 needs to be fired out of the longest barrel possible to have any sort of efficacy. Its already probably useless in pistol form, it just gets more useless the smaller you make it.
People who CC certain guns just for the cool factor really need to reevaluate themselves.[/QUOTE]
Do you even know what you're talking about? A 28gr 5.7 comes out of a Five Seven at 2200 fps, producing over 500 J of energy which is roughly the same as a 9mm.
Of course Mr. Hassan had no issue gunning down people with one at FT Hood if that doesn't prove the point any further.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;52134979]Do you even know what you're talking about? A 28gr 5.7 comes out of a Five Seven at 2200 fps, producing over 500 J of energy which is roughly the same as a 9mm.
Of course Mr. Hassan had no issue gunning down people with one at FT Hood if that doesn't prove the point any further.[/QUOTE]
It comes out of a 10.4" FN P90 barrel at that velocity. With a 4.8" FiveSeven barrel you won't see anywhere near that velocity.
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;52135240]I don't understand how a Five Seven wouldn't be effective as a carry gun anyways. "Oh no this piece of metal traveling at hundreds/thousands of feet per second didn't penetrate the attacker's jeans!"
Any caliber is a large caliber when it's pointed at you.[/QUOTE]
The problem is not the potency of the cartridge, but the shear size of the handguns that use it. The grip is massive, huge slide, and over all shitty ergos. As a temporary combat piece like for SWAT or counter terrorism, sure it's fine. As a civilian carry gun, questionable.
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXMJPLvvHRA[/media]
This triggered me.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;52134979]Do you even know what you're talking about? A 28gr 5.7 comes out of a Five Seven at 2200 fps, producing over 500 J of energy which is roughly the same as a 9mm.
Of course Mr. Hassan had no issue gunning down people with one at FT Hood if that doesn't prove the point any further.[/QUOTE]
Thats put of a P90.
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52134930]You still have the issue of a small low weight bullet over penetrating like hell. You can put 20 holes in a guy but its not going to count for shit if you cant put him in shock.
Ive stated this before, but there is a very good reason theres no compact five seven.
[editline]22nd April 2017[/editline]
Theres a trillion 9mm's out there that have the same or marginally less capacity than the five seven, so theres no reason to choose a five seven over anything else for CC[/QUOTE]
No you don't. That was the point of 5.7. It hits and tumbles, which, coupled with it's low mass, means almost zero chance of over penetration. Part of the point of the cartridge was for it to be safer to use in populated areas. Other handgun cartridges are going to be orders of magnitude worse for that purpose.
[QUOTE=download;52135251]It comes out of a 10.4" FN P90 barrel at that velocity. With a 4.8" FiveSeven barrel you won't see anywhere near that velocity.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52136058]Thats put of a P90.[/QUOTE]
Fiocchi puts their SS197 28gr at 2132 fps out of a five seven, 2300 or so from a P90. 40gr from American eagle hit 2009fps from a five seven.
The round was designed to be shot from short barrels with fast burning powders, which is why it shoots at about the same velocity at the muzzle as a 16" .22 magnum. You gain 150-200fps out of a 10" P90 of course, but 2000+ fps is nothing to sneeze at in terms of the energy it can impart on a Target, even with such low bullet weights.
So don't try and compare it to .22 mag, as that has slower burning powders designed for rifle length barrels.
Shot my Sig with the SRT kit in it, it makes a huge difference. I also learned that 3 of the 4 mags I picked up have issues. 1 won't feed the first round and won't lock open, the other 2 won't lock open. I'm going to try using them a bunch before I e-mail the company I bought them from. They're not OEM anyway, so...
Also because 9mm is expensive, after 200 rounds of it (across only 3 relays because I was shooting ~70 rounds per relay) I put the .22 kit on, and realized I need more than just 2 .22 mags for this gun.
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;52141353]Shot my Sig with the SRT kit in it, it makes a huge difference. I also learned that 3 of the 4 mags I picked up have issues. 1 won't feed the first round and won't lock open, the other 2 won't lock open. I'm going to try using them a bunch before I e-mail the company I bought them from. They're not OEM anyway, so...
Also because 9mm is expensive, after 200 rounds of it (across only 3 relays because I was shooting ~70 rounds per relay) I put the .22 kit on, and realized I need more than just 2 .22 mags for this gun.[/QUOTE]
>9mm is expensive
What
I work a shitty retail job, and the cheapest I can get 9mm for is $300/1000. For that same $300 I could get about 4000 .22.
I got shit to save up for. I need a car, there's gun to buy, eventually I need to find somewhere else to live than my parents' basement. 9mm is expensive. So is .223. Especially since I could easily have ran through 500 9mm today if that was all I had brought.
[t]http://i.imgur.com/jv1V7zb.jpg[/t]
Finished putting my AR together. Tomorrow or Tuesday I'll go try it out at a range.
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;52141617]I work a shitty retail job, and the cheapest I can get 9mm for is $300/1000. For that same $300 I could get about 4000 .22.
I got shit to save up for. I need a car, there's gun to buy, eventually I need to find somewhere else to live than my parents' basement. 9mm is expensive. So is .223. Especially since I could easily have ran through 500 9mm today if that was all I had brought.[/QUOTE]
Not to mention you live in Canada.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
