I don't understand the distaste for grip safeties.
I have never once had them cause any sort of problem. I legitimately don't even think about it.
Meanwhile a trigger safety is the dumbest shit I have ever seen. "lets make our triggers universally suck more than they already do". Seriously, if your gun is striker fired, your trigger doesn't need any help sucking more.
Trigger safeties and grip safeties are both completely ineffectual. But the only thing worse than an ineffectual safety is a redundant one like the 1911 has.
The 1911's grip safety isn't redundant, it means the trigger cannot be pulled if you aren't holding the weapon in a firing position. That eliminates any risk of the trigger snagging on something and the gun going off, which can and does happen with Glocks, believe it or not.
I'd argue that the 1911 is one of the safer handguns out there and the grip safety isn't some extra step that you have to go out of your way to disable. It's a dated concept, it's probably more effort to design than it's worth, but it doesn't detract from the weapon.
Basically any "safety" i can't physically turn off and have it stay off annoys me. as far as the 1911 GS I've never had a problem with one either (with probably 2500+ rounds through various 1911's) but I shoot with a very high grip and the fact that something "could" happen is a good enough reason for me to disable that "feature"
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;51019446]The 1911's grip safety isn't redundant, it means the trigger cannot be pulled if you aren't holding the weapon in a firing position. That eliminates any risk of the trigger snagging on something and the gun going off, which can and does happen with Glocks, believe it or not.
I'd argue that the 1911 is one of the safer handguns out there and the grip safety isn't some extra step that you have to go out of your way to disable. It's a dated concept, it's probably more effort to design than it's worth, but it doesn't detract from the weapon.[/QUOTE]
safety that stops the slide+grip safety=redundant.
Yea, the 1911 is a safe-ish pistol, but the best safety for a pistol is the user. Sig Sauer has the best fucking pistol safety out there, which is none. Safeties on pistols are useless. If you're constantly put in a situation where you're accidentally pulling the trigger on a loaded gun, then maybe a pistol with retarded safety mechanisms is perfect for you.
[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;51019462]my first time decocking a 1911 i spent a full 30 seconds trying to figure out why the fuck it wouldn't let the hammer ride down when i pulled the trigger. well, obviously, grip safety.
the fact that your standard 1911 has a pants on head retarded safety that blocks the slide too is beyond me.
any manual safety should let you load and unload the gun without the action being able to go off, whether it's a regular trigger/sear blocking safety, or one that decocks on use.[/QUOTE]
I can decock my 1911 just fine one-handed. You depress the beavertail with your thumb knuckle, pull the trigger, and ease the hammer down with your thumb.
[QUOTE=GunFox;51019109]I don't understand the distaste for grip safeties.
[/QUOTE]
More steps in between drawing and firing, not ideal for potential defense situations where you might be on the ground or something and not be able to get a complete grip on it.
[QUOTE=Purply;51019699]More steps in between drawing and firing, not ideal for potential defense situations where you might be on the ground or something and not be able to get a complete grip on it.[/QUOTE]
I am holding my 1911 actually trying to produce a situation where I would be capable of pulling the trigger without disengaging the grip safety. I can't. The gun was even designed to be shot primarily with one hand, so even with only one hand it works without issue.
Maybe other variants of the 1911 have less functional ones.
[QUOTE=GunFox;51019782]I am holding my 1911 actually trying to produce a situation where I would be capable of pulling the trigger without disengaging the grip safety. I can't. The gun was even designed to be shot primarily with one hand, so even with only one hand it works without issue.
Maybe other variants of the 1911 have less functional ones.[/QUOTE]
In this case why have a grip safety at all? The thumb safety already physically blocks the sear from moving so why have it? It's just another thing that can go wrong. The grip safety is a staple of the 1911's design and is, weirdly, a big part of it's appeal so I understand the love and mean no disrespect. :v:
Worth mentioning that I have a Para Ordnance Expert that I love to death and have put 9001 rounds through, I don't want to sound like I'm biased. It's the most fun pistol I have even with a grip safety. I have no idea if this post made any coherent sense.
[QUOTE=Purply;51019864]In this case why have a grip safety at all? The thumb safety already physically blocks the sear from moving so why have it? It's just another thing that can go wrong. The grip safety is a staple of the 1911's design and is, weirdly, a big part of it's appeal so I understand the love and mean no disrespect. :v:
Worth mentioning that I have a Para Ordnance Expert that I love to death and have put 9001 rounds through, I don't want to sound like I'm biased. It's the most fun pistol I have even with a grip safety. I have no idea if this post made any coherent sense.[/QUOTE]
The grip safety prevents something from snagging on the trigger and pulling it. The 1911 is a single action pistol with a pretty light break so it's not outside of the realm of imagination that something could snag on the trigger and pull it as you're holstering the weapon or something.
It's not really an extra step, since it's automatic if you're holding the weapon correctly and if you aren't holding the weapon correctly you shouldn't be trying to fire it even if it's an emergency.
I don't personally feel like I need a grip safety, but I'm not going to disregard a gun just because it has one, since I know how to use a handgun and it couldn't affect me under any conceivable circumstances.
[editline]8th September 2016[/editline]
It helps if you put yourself in the mindset of folks in the early 1900s when this gun was designed. You'd never carry a revolver with the hammer cocked on a loaded chamber, but here are these new "mechanical" pistols that are designed to be carried with the hammer cocked over a live round. To dissuade concerns about the safety of doing this, we'll make it so the gun can't even go off if you aren't trying to shoot something with it.
In these modern times most of us aren't still being weaned off revolvers so we know how to use a semi automatic safely; but the grip safety doesn't interfere with that, so it's never been changed. At best it's a good thing to have in an unlikely scenario.
I dont think ive ever been in a situation where the trigger on my pistol was getting snagged on stuff.
1911 aside, why do pistols like the XD have grip safeties? Aside from American designed and made guns being complete garbage.
It's hard to imagine it happening but somehow it does, mostly with guns that don't have manual safeties like Glocks. It's easy to chalk the user up as an idiot and disregard the incident but it does happen and manufacturers need to sell guns. "Our gun can't shoot you if something that totally isn't your fault (wink wink) causes the trigger to get pulled" is a good selling point to the kinds of people who are likely to shoot themselves on accident.
I'd guess the XD has a grip safety because it is, in part, trying to appeal to 1911 carriers as everything they like about the 1911, but better. At least that's how it was explained to me. I figure most 1911 carriers like 3 major things about the gun: steel frame, external hammer, .45 ACP. The XD only ticks one of those boxes. They do sell it as a macho John Wayne service pistol, though.
Personally, if I wanted a square plastigun I'd get a USP.
I'm gonna restate that I don't actually plan to carry my 1911 due to the mag cap and feed lip issues, since this post kinda makes it sound like I do or at least would. I don't trust the magazine design not to fuck me over when I need it most. It comes to work with me just in case because of where I work and a recent incident in the parking lot with our secretary but only until I can buy something better. We also have a CZ 75 at the office, but it's on the other side of the building.
If theres a huge potential, or really any potential, for you to be having negligent discharges or even shooting yourself or someone else on accident, then you dont need to be owning a fucking gun.
That's the answer to a different question. Since those people can own guns, the question gun manufacturers needed to answer was, "how can we get guns in those people's hands?"
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;51019905]
It's not really an extra step, since it's automatic if you're holding the weapon correctly and if you aren't holding the weapon correctly you shouldn't be trying to fire it even if it's an emergency.
[/QUOTE]
It is an extra step. It's another part that needs to be disengaged for the weapon to fire. In high pressure/emergency situations you can't guarantee that you'll be able to get a proper grip and disengage the grip safety before having to fire. I'm not disregarding the 1911 because of this. I said in my post you quoted that I love my 1911, grip safety and all. This doesn't make it a bad gun by any stretch of the imagination, it just has a feature that people have valid complaints over.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;51019950]I'd guess the XD has a grip safety because it is, in part, trying to appeal to 1911 carriers as everything they like about the 1911, but better. At least that's how it was explained to me. I figure most 1911 carriers like 3 major things about the gun: steel frame, external hammer, .45 ACP. The XD only ticks one of those boxes. They do sell it as a macho John Wayne service pistol, though.
[/QUOTE]
Those 3 boxes are what I wanted but I didn't want a 1911. So I got my 4506.
[editline]8th September 2016[/editline]
Slide mounted safety is a bit annoying and the mag safety is stupid as fuck but other than that it's a great gun.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;51019950]It's hard to imagine it happening but somehow it does, mostly with guns that don't have manual safeties like Glocks. It's easy to chalk the user up as an idiot and disregard the incident but it does happen and manufacturers need to sell guns. "Our gun can't shoot you if something that totally isn't your fault (wink wink) causes the trigger to get pulled" is a good selling point to the kinds of people who are likely to shoot themselves on accident.
I'd guess the XD has a grip safety because it is, in part, trying to appeal to 1911 carriers as everything they like about the 1911, but better. At least that's how it was explained to me. I figure most 1911 carriers like 3 major things about the gun: steel frame, external hammer, .45 ACP. The XD only ticks one of those boxes. They do sell it as a macho John Wayne service pistol, though.
Personally, if I wanted a square plastigun I'd get a USP.
I'm gonna restate that I don't actually plan to carry my 1911 due to the mag cap and feed lip issues, since this post kinda makes it sound like I do or at least would. I don't trust the magazine design not to fuck me over when I need it most. It comes to work with me just in case because of where I work and a recent incident in the parking lot with our secretary but only until I can buy something better. We also have a CZ 75 at the office, but it's on the other side of the building.[/QUOTE]
No, if you want a square plastigun, you will get an FNX.
I have both, the FNX is far superior.
I've decided to build a FAL, think I'm gonna email apex and see if they'll give me a shopping list - should I go inch or metric?
[QUOTE=GunFox;51020927]No, if you want a square plastigun, you will get an FNX.
I have both, the FNX is far superior.[/QUOTE]
Bossy, bossy :v:
I've never played with an FNX but if I was seriously looking at buying either I'd be doing more research on square plastiguns before dropping the kind of money either weapon commands.
So when're you guys gonna start panic buying for November?
[QUOTE=NuclearAnnhilation;51021101]So when're you guys gonna start panic buying for November?[/QUOTE]
With ammo, back in May...
[QUOTE=NuclearAnnhilation;51021101]So when're you guys gonna start panic buying for November?[/QUOTE]
As soon as I hit a certain level of funds in my bank account. Hopefully I'll be able to pick up a PTR in October.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;51020934]I've decided to build a FAL, think I'm gonna email apex and see if they'll give me a shopping list - should I go inch or metric?[/QUOTE]
Inch.
The L1A1 is sexy as fuck.
I can't find a parts kit in stock anywhere for either for less than $600, Apex even told me unless I already had a parts kit it was going to be really expensive :v:
I'm picking up a Nickel-boron BCG for my AR tomorrow from my boss for $170. Thing hasn't had but a thousand rounds through it and it'll be a decent little upgrade for my rifle which still has the stock Milspec BCG in it. Beyond that, I'm not panic buying anything until everyone tries to sell their excess shit in January.
[QUOTE=NuclearAnnhilation;51021101]So when're you guys gonna start panic buying for November?[/QUOTE]
I started when Hillary got the nomination.
[editline]8th September 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;51020945]Bossy, bossy :v:
I've never played with an FNX but if I was seriously looking at buying either I'd be doing more research on square plastiguns before dropping the kind of money either weapon commands.[/QUOTE]
If you buy a 1911, or god forbid an XD, over an FNX, then god have mercy on your soul.
It'd be between the USP and FNX for me, probably, Cyke. It's just that when I'm talking about dropping that kind of money I could very easily get an antique rifle or pistol that I would like to have a lot more than a square plastigun. (not for self defense)
FNX all the way. I've messed around with both a bit and the FNX just felt better in my hand.
I think we should start a FP GatPunch party and start fundraising for the anti-panic buying candidates. Because fuck those guys that perpetuate panic buying in the Repub side.
We should nominate someone who wants to repeal the nfa act so people start panic selling.
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