Firearms XIV - All the Calicos Are Over There - General

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;51143649]I held a Century Arms AK last month and fucking loved the feel, the wood was great and the pistol grip was so comfortable. I'd been saving up for a PC build but I'm thinking about putting it into a rifle instead. I'm afraid Hillary is going to come in and place some federal ban on high-capacity magazines like California, Colorado, etc. have.... thoughts..?[/QUOTE] First bit of advice - don't get a Century Arms anything. They're notorious for peddling unreliable garbage. Second, do you want an AK, or an AR? Being military, you're already passingly familiar with the AR, that cuts down on time spent learning to operate the thing. The only real issues I can think of with the AR are A. tight tolerances combined with a direct impingement gas system and B. an underpowered cartridge. Both of those issues can be overcome with proper maintenance and ammo selection. Ammunition is relatively cheap and widely available, and, being widely produced domestically, isn't as vulnerable to future import restrictions as 7.62x39 and 5.45x39. Surplus 5.45, by the way, now faces a broad import restriction, as the 7N6 cartridge was ruled an armor-piercing round. ARs carry a few advantages over the AK - they're a little over a pound lighter in the carbine format (ounces equal pounds, pounds equal pain!), the fire selector/safety is sensibly placed and easy to manipulate, and the rear sight is placed much closer to the eye than on the AK. Most civilian models are extremely modular. Aftermarket upgrades are, of course, available for the AK as well, but that's primarily furniture. Going beyond field-stripping an AK is an involved process, and requires equipment generally found in a machine-shop. An AR can be completely assembled or broken down using hand-tools, albeit specialized ones. There are also a wider variety of different overall rifles available - you can get an AR built like an M4 carbine (it'll come with a slightly longer barrel than an M4, 16 inches is the legal minimum before it's considered an SBR), one built to be a DMR, hell, you can even get one without a stock, so it's legally a pistol (most people plan on putting through NFA paperwork and building those into SBRs). If you're leaning towards an AK, the advantages are widely known. It operates on a gas-piston system, meaning easier cleaning. The tolerances are generous, slightly reducing accuracy but giving a boost to reliability. AKM models accept an inexpensive, hard-hitting cartridge, while AK-74 variants fire an exceptional projectile with similar ballistics to 5.56. As I said before though, 5.45 faces import restrictions. There are still stocks of 7N6 available, but those will eventually run dry, forcing you to rely on less common, modern-production ammo. The rifle does come with a few drawbacks, however. I mentioned this when discussing the AR's relative strengths - the rear-sight is an antiquated configuration (a notch-type placed forward of the ejection port), though mounting an optic can reduce this problem. The safety is, in my opinion, hilariously bad. To chamber a around, you must disengage the safety. Disengaging it also requires you to remove your firing hand from the pistol grip, while the AR's can be manipulated with a simple flick of the thumb. AK's are also generally assembled from foreign parts-kits, making them subject to the frankly asinine restrictions of 922-r. Consider your needs and wants before making a purchase, don't rush it. Take into account what you plan on using your rifle for, figure out what offers you the best fit.

[QUOTE=Ridge;51143877]I don't like underfolders because there is no way to get a comfortable cheek weld on it. Sidefolders are a bit better.[/QUOTE] silly Boris when use stock that fold under, you will never need cheek weld stock wobble too much for other than spray and cheeki breeki

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;51143929]I don't want the AR platform at all. If I'm gonna shell out near a grand for a new rifle I want it to be something more unique. All my buddies have AR's and think they're the shit because they have some special upper or a different scope or whatever, I'm not really into that. Some will want to rip into me for this, but I want something that's as much a show piece as it is for the range which was one reason I was leaning towards an AK with the wooden stock and such. I like 5.56 more than 7.62 just because of the kick but if I want to fire an AR I can ask pretty much half the guys I know. I've always wanted an FN PS90, but I'm not sure I want to sink $1400+ into a gun right now.[/QUOTE] You'll love a 5.45 AK and there is available Wolf commercial ammo and some Hornady, less recoil than an AR in 5.56 The drawback to 5.45 AKs is that good mags are expensive ($25-50) and you'll probably have to mail order your ammo unless your LGS or a gun show has some. Now that 7n6 import was banned, 5.45 is 23 cents a round, just like steel cased 7.62x39 and .223 There are some 5.56 Yugo AKs out there that have a plastic magwell adapter to take AR mags, which is great if you go shoot with your buddies or just want cheap mags. Also cool, but more expensive, the 5.56 VZ-58 (Not an AK) with the same magwell adapter: [img]https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/l/t1.0-9/14317587_1099970310040019_2278557977468143248_n.jpg?oh=4194d687b96b61fd23837ba37dadf189&oe=586970A0[/img]

[QUOTE=MAC21500;51143165]WASR: [url]http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/component/virtuemart/shipping-rifles/cai-ak-47-wasr-10-7-62x39mm-rifle-detail.html?Itemid=0[/url] NPAP: [url]http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/component/virtuemart/shipping-rifles/ak47-yugo-zastava-n-pap-fixed-wood-stock-detail.html?Itemid=0[/url][/QUOTE] $750 for a WASR wow how times have changed. I sure hope they're not worthless shitheaps like they used to be

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;51143989]That actually sounds perfect honestly. Do you know of any ones with the wooden stock and handgrip? I don't think I've even ever seen anyone with 5.45.[/QUOTE] Most of them come with polymer furniture nowadays, although surplus furniture sets are readily available. [editline]3rd October 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Dysplasia;51144035]$750 for a WASR wow how times have changed. I sure hope they're not worthless shitheaps like they used to be[/QUOTE] Compared to most of the crap available today for less than that, they're great.

[QUOTE=Dysplasia;51144035]$750 for a WASR wow how times have changed. I sure hope they're not worthless shitheaps like they used to be[/QUOTE] Current production WASRs are actually pretty nice these days. And no, they don't suffer from the front sight cant anymore.

So I am getting my non-restricted license and I am thinking about getting a Marlin 336W as my first rifle. Has anyone had any experience with this rifle, anything I should know before buying it? The reviews I have read and the videos I have watched all say its a good reliable firearm.

[QUOTE=Ridge;51143877]I don't like underfolders because there is no way to get a comfortable cheek weld on it. Sidefolders are a bit better.[/QUOTE] How will you ever be an African war lord with a side folding AK?

[QUOTE=flamester370;51145169]So I am getting my non-restricted license and I am thinking about getting a Marlin 336W as my first rifle. Has anyone had any experience with this rifle, anything I should know before buying it? The reviews I have read and the videos I have watched all say its a good reliable firearm.[/QUOTE] Beware, I'm not sure if Marlin has fixed their QC since the buyout. Inspect the gun at the shop, work the action, and check the barrel. The action will be a little rough since they've been cutting corners on finishing work. Give the barrel a pass with a wet patch of solvent then a few passes of a dry patch. Look down the barrel for any burs, chatter marks, or a rough chamber. Those are the only issues that have appeared with more recent production Marlin leverguns.

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;51143649]I held a Century Arms AK last month and fucking loved the feel, the wood was great and the pistol grip was so comfortable. I'd been saving up for a PC build but I'm thinking about putting it into a rifle instead. I'm afraid Hillary is going to come in and place some federal ban on high-capacity magazines like California, Colorado, etc. have.... thoughts..?[/QUOTE] As far as like a gun ban goes, not sure how likely it would be. For a president, it would be political suicide. Politically speaking, Hillary is basically Obama, and not including propesed bills he supported, he actually increased gun rights in the US. I doubt Hillary would present a gun ban bill at all, especially with a Republican majority, which will likely continue. With that said, its better safe than sorry. Nows the time to buy before prices start hiking again.

Shoot I didn't even realize CO had a capacity ban.

Why do we hate the C39 so much? I've got one and the fit and finish on it is amazing. I know, anecdotal evidence and all that stuff, but I've run thousands of rounds through mine. Mags lock in tight, never had an issue. Every time I ask what's so wrong with the C39 after seeing "how shit it is" on /k/ and occasionally here, I never really get a straight answer. It's usually "w-well, it's an American made AK, so..." It's funny how full circle we've come. WASR's used to be "canted sights century shit-tier swamp AK's" but in the past like two years, the WASR is now sometimes hailed as the best $600-$900 AK on the entire market.

[QUOTE=Whibble;51147367]Why do we hate the C39 so much? I've got one and the fit and finish on it is amazing. I know, anecdotal evidence and all that stuff, but I've run thousands of rounds through mine. Mags lock in tight, never had an issue. It's funny how full circle we've come. WASR's used to be "canted sights century shit-tier swamp AK's" but in the past like two years, the WASR is now sometimes hailed as the best $600-$900 AK on the entire market.[/QUOTE] It has to do with it being made by Century, uses Cast parts, and it depends on the version. The 1st version had teething issues. The V2 is considered a decent rifle but don't expect to have surplus furniture fit it.

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;51145356]mostly because US companies just dont [I]get[/I] what an AK is supposed to be. They try making this super "superior" product, when the AK was NEVER designed to be a massively high end rifle. And then they wonder why shit doesn't work well. AK's aren't supposed to have massively tight tolerances, and when you build them to MASSIVELY tight tolerances, it doesn't work nearly as well.[/QUOTE] I'm not sure if it's just that, or the fact that they apply new age capitalist logic to AK building all to save pennies on the dollar for their bottom line. It's a mixture of cheapening the build quality to save time and money and believing that AKs are just trash can rifles that don't need to be held to a standard because of their mythical legacy. I think Century's problem may be that they have a quota system in place and just churn stuff out, and with a system like that, people stop caring about quality. I can't think of an excuse for I.O. and how they stay in business; them or Hesse/Vulcan/Blackthorne/ whatever they are calling themselves now. That and the difference between foreign AK factories and US factories is that most of them are or were state owned and run and have been doing it right from 1947 on wards in some cases.

[QUOTE=Whibble;51147367]Why do we hate the C39 so much? I've got one and the fit and finish on it is amazing. I know, anecdotal evidence and all that stuff, but I've run thousands of rounds through mine. Mags lock in tight, never had an issue. Every time I ask what's so wrong with the C39 after seeing "how shit it is" on /k/ and occasionally here, I never really get a straight answer. It's usually "w-well, it's an American made AK, so..." It's funny how full circle we've come. WASR's used to be "canted sights century shit-tier swamp AK's" but in the past like two years, the WASR is now sometimes hailed as the best $600-$900 AK on the entire market.[/QUOTE] The first WASR imports were garbage, and now theyre not. Simple as that. As far as the C39 goes, like any cent arms product it has bad qc. You got lucky

[QUOTE=Whibble;51147367]Why do we hate the C39 so much? I've got one and the fit and finish on it is amazing. I know, anecdotal evidence and all that stuff, but I've run thousands of rounds through mine. Mags lock in tight, never had an issue. Every time I ask what's so wrong with the C39 after seeing "how shit it is" on /k/ and occasionally here, I never really get a straight answer. It's usually "w-well, it's an American made AK, so..." It's funny how full circle we've come. WASR's used to be "canted sights century shit-tier swamp AK's" but in the past like two years, the WASR is now sometimes hailed as the best $600-$900 AK on the entire market.[/QUOTE] That's what happens when mil surp barrels are banned from import because they are "scary machinegun barrels" that make regular guns into bloodthirsty child killing machines. So most of the parts kits have dried up. That and they've sanctioned the two biggest exporters of AKs, Russia and China; right now we can get Molot Veprs (Russia), Arsenal (Bulgaria) Cugir WASR10 (Romania) Radom (Poland) Zastava (Yugoslavia) and I'm not sure if FEG AMD-65 (Hungary) is still being imported by TGI. We used to have Russian Saigas and VEPRs, Russian (SGL series, basically converted Saigas) Arsenals, Egyptian Maadis (Made on exported Russian tooling), Chinese Norincos and Polytechs, Finnish Valmets and Israeli Galils (until the new version was made in the US). So you can see that we're down to a handful of good AKs in the $500-800 price range (WASRs, Yugos, VEPRs), the Arsenals in the $1K-1,200 range and then the new Galils in the $1,800 range and the Krebs, Rifle Dynamics, and Definitive Arms AKs in the $2K-3K ludicrous range. Those are just the factory built /custom shop, known quantity guns.

So my SVT provided me a very interesting learning experience today. I had a round of overloaded Chinese surplus that had the extractor rip the rim off and get the case stuck in the chamber. It also blew out the primer. Had to take a section of an aluminum shotgun cleaning rod and the steel cleaning rod from the SVT and have my team lead from work hold the action on the gun open while I spent 5 minutes hammering the casing out and ruining a shotgun cleaning rod, then another 5 minutes separating the aluminum rod from my SVT's steel one. Shot 5 rounds right after clearing it because I didn't notice the primer was blown (else I would have checked the gun first) and all 5 shot fine. Such is the gamble of Chinese surplus ammo.

[QUOTE=DaCommie1;51147794]So my SVT provided me a very interesting learning experience today. I had a round of overloaded Chinese surplus that had the extractor rip the rim off and get the case stuck in the chamber. It also blew out the primer. Had to take a section of an aluminum shotgun cleaning rod and the steel cleaning rod from the SVT and have my team lead from work hold the action on the gun open while I spent 5 minutes hammering the casing out and ruining a shotgun cleaning rod, then another 5 minutes separating the aluminum rod from my SVT's steel one. Shot 5 rounds right after clearing it because I didn't notice the primer was blown (else I would have checked the gun first) and all 5 shot fine. Such is the gamble of Chinese surplus ammo.[/QUOTE] Sounds pretty typical for an SVT. Mine has an issue with Bulgarian milsurp where it fails to extract, closes the bolt (even with tounds in the mag) then locks shut. Only way to open it is to apply boot to bolt. Happens once every 500 rounds or so.

[QUOTE=Levelog;51146938]Shoot I didn't even realize CO had a capacity ban.[/QUOTE] Yep, sucks. Have to buy mag rebuild kits instead of just mags.

[QUOTE=Ridge;51148632]Yep, sucks. Have to buy mag rebuild kits instead of just mags.[/QUOTE] From what I read they don't really ban owning them for personal use and bought out of state? EG I could just order some online.

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;51148603]Sounds pretty typical for an SVT. Mine has an issue with Bulgarian milsurp where it fails to extract, closes the bolt (even with tounds in the mag) then locks shut. Only way to open it is to apply boot to bolt. Happens once every 500 rounds or so.[/QUOTE] I had that once with Czech surplus. Seeing it shear the rim though was something else.

[QUOTE=Levelog;51148645]From what I read they don't really ban owning them for personal use and bought out of state? EG I could just order some online.[/QUOTE] You're not supposed to bring them in from out of state, either. The law only allows for mags already in circulation on July 1 2014. The problems are 1) No sheriff gives a damn about this law outside of Denver, and 2) They have to prove you got them after that date. Only Magpul stamps the build date on their mags, and people tend to do some fitment sanding to make the mags go in/out of the guns easier.

[QUOTE=Ridge;51148829]You're not supposed to bring them in from out of state, either. The law only allows for mags already in circulation on July 1 2014. The problems are 1) No sheriff gives a damn about this law outside of Denver, and 2) They have to prove you got them after that date. Only Magpul stamps the build date on their mags, and people tend to do some fitment sanding to make the mags go in/out of the guns easier.[/QUOTE] At least some USGI mags have the month and year of manufacture stamped on them too, so watch out for that.

[QUOTE=MAC21500;51147770]That's what happens when mil surp barrels are banned from import because they are "scary machinegun barrels" that make regular guns into bloodthirsty child killing machines. So most of the parts kits have dried up. That and they've sanctioned the two biggest exporters of AKs, Russia and China; right now we can get Molot Veprs (Russia), Arsenal (Bulgaria) Cugir WASR10 (Romania) Radom (Poland) Zastava (Yugoslavia) and I'm not sure if FEG AMD-65 (Hungary) is still being imported by TGI. We used to have Russian Saigas and VEPRs, Russian (SGL series, basically converted Saigas) Arsenals, Egyptian Maadis (Made on exported Russian tooling), Chinese Norincos and Polytechs, Finnish Valmets and Israeli Galils (until the new version was made in the US). So you can see that we're down to a handful of good AKs in the $500-800 price range (WASRs, Yugos, VEPRs), the Arsenals in the $1K-1,200 range and then the new Galils in the $1,800 range and the Krebs, Rifle Dynamics, and Definitive Arms AKs in the $2K-3K ludicrous range. Those are just the factory built /custom shop, known quantity guns.[/QUOTE] Amd is still being imported but with new barrels

HMMMMM, I wonder... Could you get one of those guns that could be made fully auto with a shoestring, where the NFA classifies the shoestring as the machine gun, and then register the shoestring as a machine gun provided the shoestring was manufactured before 1986?

If you had a pre-1899 shoestring, would it need to be registered at all?

[QUOTE=Birdman101;51150560]HMMMMM, I wonder... Could you get one of those guns that could be made fully auto with a shoestring, where the NFA classifies the shoestring as the machine gun, and then register the shoestring as a machine gun provided the shoestring was manufactured before 1986?[/QUOTE] The shoe string would have had to been registered before the hughes amendment.

Why save 22lr cases at all?

They are arguably reloadable but not worth the trouble at all

This was probably posted here when it came out, but- [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_IeAaR5AmU[/media] I'm really impressed by this. I kind of subscribed to the idea that Lugers were unreliable, problematic guns which only got adopted because of politics (which is totally believable when you know Imperial Germany). I'd be curious to see a C96 mud tested like this to compare, since it was the Luger's biggest rival, and was regarded as the better gun, if more expensive.