Let me get this you want the 'Coalition' to treat them as 'POW's in stead of putting them on trial. What good would that do. You are your hippie ways.
[IMG]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_IzGDYJE7jOs/RlezyjdEWoI/AAAAAAAAAXs/pcPul6wqygw/s320/falluja_bridge.jpg[/IMG]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_military_company[/url]
[I]On March 31, 2004, four American private contractors belonging to the company Blackwater USA were killed by insurgents in Fallujah as they drove through the town. They were dragged from their car in one of the most violent attacks on U.S. contractors in the conflict. Following the attack, an angry mob mutilated and burned the bodies, dragging them through the streets before they were hung on a bridge.[/I]
I do not call animals that have hung private contracts and mutilated their bodies human.
Contractors don't deserve all the shit they get.
[QUOTE=Pantz76;22774735]Britain was there for 6 years. Now that they have pulled out, they are free of blame and us is the sole bad guy.[/QUOTE]
So it's still ok to continue criticising them as if they are still there? Yeah, that's completely fair.
[QUOTE=David29;22775265]So it's still ok to continue criticising them as if they are still there? Yeah, that's completely fair.[/QUOTE]
Do you honestly think that the Americans will not be criticized any longer after they withdraw from Iraq?
The next 30 years of politics will be judged on why American political morality is no longer valid. After all, they wrongly invaded Iraq.
I love how the OP is stating my government is racist. War will never end as long as man is alive there will be war. If it wasn't the 'Coalition' fighting them it would be someone else. Get over it. It will continue as long as it will have to. The middle east is shit hole(In my eyes). It has it's own problems with it's own people and people governing it military.
[QUOTE=Regulas021;22775442]Do you honestly think that the Americans will not be criticized any longer after they withdraw from Iraq?
The next 30 years of politics will be judged on why American political morality is no longer valid. After all, they wrongly invaded Iraq.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. We still get shit about Vietnam...
We did what we needed to do there half a decade ago, it's long past time to get out of the middle east.
[QUOTE=evilweazel;22775543]We did what we needed to do there half a decade ago, it's long past time to get out of the middle east.[/QUOTE]
While I do agree with you, it really isn't that easy. Rebuilding some of the vital infrastructure and training and setting up a police/security force is vital to making sure that Iraq doesn't implode on itself and become another Somalia.
[QUOTE=evilweazel;22775543]We did what we needed to do there half a decade ago, it's long past time to get out of the middle east.[/QUOTE]
You destroyed the countries infrastructure and stability. It is your responsibility to either rebuild it or ensure that there are others with the capability to do so (Iraqi/Afghani contractors, for example). There aren't, at the moment.
If we leave the was on terror just leave what good will that do. If we fight it out what good would it do. None it's gonna play out bad every time. Tried of the threads about the US and War. I see the US stated more that coalition in the OP. It's obvious a bias post. I see US mentioned about 7 times in the OP and CA & UK mentioned once. The OP lives in CA...
[editline]11:01AM[/editline]
It was one president that decide we should go to war and it was another one that decided to set a end date. It will end but we have to make sure they can support them selfs by providing support.
[QUOTE=Rofl_copter;22775224]
I do not call animals that have hung private contracts and mutilated their bodies human.
Contractors don't deserve all the shit they get.[/QUOTE]
On September 16, 2007, Blackwater guards shot and killed 17 Iraqi civilians in Nisour Square, Baghdad
[I]Lets kill innocent civilians and then not be reprimanded because we are not the military[/I]
If the reader of this post knows their history, then you'll know what I'm saying when Afghanistan and Iraq look hauntingly familiar to Vietnam.
Guerilla warfare, unstable and corrupt as hell government, and the terrorist version of the Domino Theory. Not to mention that Afghanistan is the direct result of Cold War proxy tactics.
[QUOTE=Luuper;22775901]On September 16, 2007, Blackwater guards shot and killed 17 Iraqi civilians in Nisour Square, Baghdad
[I]Lets kill innocent civilians and then not be reprimanded because we are not the military[/I][/QUOTE]
I know their entire firm was forced out of Iraq for this incident, and I seem to remember hearing that they were tried for murder.
[QUOTE=Regulas021;22775916]I know their entire firm was forced out of Iraq for this incident, and I seem to remember hearing that they were tried for murder.[/QUOTE]
The judge in America dropped the charges on all but one of the contractors
[QUOTE=Regulas021;22775612]You destroyed the countries infrastructure and stability. It is your responsibility to either rebuild it or ensure that there are others with the capability to do so (Iraqi/Afghani contractors, for example). There aren't, at the moment.[/QUOTE]
On the contrary, during the end of the Cold War the United States overthrew Taliban with minimal (really minimal) troop presense in Afghanistan. How? We enlisted the help of local warlords (to whom the civilians have their only true loyalty to, not any federal government), and turned the country against the Taliban. We promised that after the war, we would give those warlords power over their country.
What do we do? Set up a puppet government.
Where are we now? Between a rock and a hard place.
Are any of you actually going to do anything about it, or just post in an online forum?
[QUOTE=Regulas021;22775916]I know their entire firm was forced out of Iraq for this incident, and I seem to remember hearing that they were tried for murder.[/QUOTE]
In addition the firm is back in Afghanistan under a different name now. I forget the name but it's something like X3.
[QUOTE=yodafart9;22775974]Are any of you actually going to do anything about it, or just post in an online forum?[/QUOTE]
what do you think?
[QUOTE=deggemannen;22775986]what do you think?[/QUOTE]
The second one :v:
Well what can he do?
And how do we know he's not doing anything?
[QUOTE=Luuper;22775947]The judge in America dropped the charges on all but one of the contractors[/QUOTE]
There was still a trial and a conviction, though.
Ironic - you complain that Afghani/Iraqi civilians are not being treated as POW's and are being tried, yet are quick to dismiss the fact that US civilians who are fighting in Iraq are also being tried.
[QUOTE=David29;22776024]There was still a trial and a conviction, though.
Ironic - you complain that Afghani/Iraqi civilians are not being treated as POW's and are being tried, yet are quick to dismiss the fact that US civilians who are fighting in Iraq are also being tried.[/QUOTE]
How in malarkey's name is he dismissing that fact?
[QUOTE=Luuper;22775901]On September 16, 2007, Blackwater guards shot and killed 17 Iraqi civilians in Nisour Square, Baghdad
[I]Lets kill innocent civilians and then not be reprimanded because we are not the military[/I][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Luuper;22775947]The judge in America dropped the charges on all but one of the contractors[/QUOTE]
Funny how we swayed to PMC when the definition of Coalition is cooperate in a joint act, in for their own self interest, joining together for common cause. When the only cause the PMC have is getting paid. I wouldn't group them into Coalition because there not a government and there only there to get paid. Beyond all that yes Coalition troops are getting put on trial.
[QUOTE=David29;22776093][/QUOTE]
He's simply stating what the judge did. He did not state his thoughts on the decision.
OP, if I could rate you 2 ratings I'd rate you dumb for assuming I'm a blind patriot, but I'd also rate you a (small) agree. I understand what your saying and I do some what agree with it but I have a slight problem not seeing any source at all for your information.. more because it's easy to throw words around without any backing and have people believe it. Beyond that though, you have some good points. But the argument of if we should go over there needs to die. We're there, maybe for the wrong reasons. But we do need to get out of there now. And I hope we do it without much more problems there.
[QUOTE=Regulas021;22775612]You destroyed the countries infrastructure and stability. It is your responsibility to either rebuild it or ensure that there are others with the capability to do so (Iraqi/Afghani contractors, for example). There aren't, at the moment.[/QUOTE]
Apparently we're supposed to just walk away and leave it in ruins because that's what almost everyone says. But we are making slight progress in some of the things we wanted.
And all of this is coming from a person currently enlisted in the US Air Force. Hence why I dislike you assuming I have blind patriotism. I support my country, and the soldiers that are over there right now.. but that doesn't mean I agree with the war or some of the choices made by my country. I know that may seem blind but I still voice my opinion when I can. But I do refuse to just post "Fuck you the United States is better, right, more awesome then yours" because that's just stupid and always will be. Sadly, the US is known for having people that do that but they're fools and that should be obvious.
[QUOTE=JeffmA;22776183]
Apparently we're supposed to just walk away and leave it in ruins because that's what almost everyone says. But we are making slight progress in some of the things we wanted.
[/QUOTE]
Strongly agree.
I disagree in these 'contractors'. Sub-contracting military work to a business?
Capitalism gone to far.
First of all JeffmA, I appreciate your service.
I do agree with you that we need to end involvement in Afghanistan, and preferably the entire Middle East. However, I think that 'walking away' from Afghanistan might be possible, but not with the current thinking of the United States' military hierarchy.
I think that we learned nothing from Vietnam. We made all the wrong decisions and drew all the wrong conclusions. We fail the realise that a region like Afghanistan will never work under a federal government (locals call Karzai the Mayor of Kabul), and that we can not root out a guerilla movement with troop numbers, advanced technologies, or any form of brute force.
The only real solution is to work with the locals. We need to realise who their real allegience lies towards (local warlords, tribes, whatever) and design a special government that is designed to accomodate these loyalites. Even if it involves a weak central government, it will be well worth the restabilizing of the region. Afghanistan has been torn apart by civil war for decades, and the civilians will no longer recognize any foreign presence as a source of government.
I think that everybody in the entire fucking world is fucking retarded and I'm going to be perpetually moving from place to place to avoid getting the worst part of most countries
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