All the Slender Ladies: Body Diversity in Video Games - General

[QUOTE=NoNameForEvil;51001495]you guys do realise there are more videogame genres than platformers and shooters right you keep bringing up tomb raider and overwatch but rarely anything else? barring dota 2[/QUOTE] But people brought up fighting games and stealth games. The problem is that most genres depict highly physical activities that strain suspension of disbelief the older or more unfit the character is.

[QUOTE=NoNameForEvil;51001495]you guys do realise there are more videogame genres than platformers and shooters right you keep bringing up tomb raider and overwatch but rarely anything else? barring dota 2[/QUOTE] Can you bring up any other games that have many different body types of either gender? Most games have normal weight characters for both genders because generally fat people don't fit into the context of the game very well. Like what other genres could you see fat people in? Fat Emily stealthing around in dishonored? The vast majority of games are shooters and platformers so of course people are going to mostly bring those up.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;51001513]Can you bring up any other games that have many different body types of either gender? Most games have normal weight characters for both genders because generally fat people don't fit into the context of the game very well. Like what other genres could you see fat people in? Fat Emily stealthing around in dishonored? The vast majority of games are shooters and platformers so of course people are going to mostly bring those up.[/QUOTE] I can see fat people working fine in racing games and point and click/visual novel type stuff because they're not directly physical. But again, thats very specific, because most genres depict physically taxing activities.

[QUOTE=NoNameForEvil;51001582]i'm not arguing that fat characters need to "replace" fit characters. they don't. i can't name many games with different body types barring shit like the sims, but there are plenty of genres where they could fit in, especially when you consider the fact that they don't have to be main characters. side or background characters that obviously aren't going to be jumping around and shit can have different body types.[/QUOTE] Metal Gear, Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat (most of the men share the same body but theres still Bo Rai Cho, and people forget the girls have actual muscle going on), Grand Theft Auto, Splinter Cell, Hitman. Like im naming whole franchises here, not even individual games.

Any first person shooting aiming for an authentic experience, any action RPG, really anything that involves combat. There aren't actually more opportunities for fat or out of shape characters except maybe as a sidekick (ie Sully in Uncharted but even then I wouldn't call him fat). Honestly at this point I'm not sure what Sarkeesian would be happy with. As far as I can tell, when it comes to video games, she hates strong women, weak women, fat women, skinny women, fighters, cowards etc. I'm pretty sure if more games started portraying female characters as realistically overweight she would make a video about that.

I refuse to play video games ever again until fat men are properly represented.

GTA has fat pedestrians.

[QUOTE=Nephilim;51000211]We've all forgotten a special someone. [thumb]http://i.imgur.com/yMop2jh.png[/thumb] Also [url=https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/7f/79/2f/7f792feb79fc029d96a2be9835c7c23b.jpg]Hannah[/url] from Fable 2.[/QUOTE] ahem [t]http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/dead-rising/images/f/f6/Dead_Rising_Jo_Slade.png/revision/latest?cb=20100607200820[/t]

We had fat Nathan Drake but they complained him away.

[QUOTE=Charades;51002016]We had fat Nathan Drake but they complained him away.[/QUOTE] People on the dev team? From what Naughty Dog said it seemed like purely an internal decision.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;51002038]People on the dev team? From what Naughty Dog said it seemed like purely an internal decision.[/QUOTE] Thats industry speak for "this shits going to cause a stir so we removed it before people needlessly start shitting themselves in anger."

[QUOTE=AaronM202;51002051]Thats industry speak for "this shits going to cause a stir so we removed it before people needlessly start shitting themselves in anger."[/QUOTE] It was in every previous game and no one cared.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;51002082]It was in every previous game and no one cared.[/QUOTE] The skin was apparently completed in its entirety. It's removal was likely late in development. Which is puzzling. What could be gained from the removal of an art assets you've already invested the time and effort to complete?

[QUOTE=BlueFlytrap;51002089]The skin was apparently completed in its entirety. It's removal was likely late in development. Which is puzzling. What could be gained from the removal of an art assets you've already invested the time and effort to complete?[/QUOTE] If I had to guess, top people at Naughty Dog didn't like it and the people who actually worked on it were likely one or two artists who simply got overruled. I'm just trying to say that it's safe to assume they weren't lying and that the decision came internally rather than fears of external criticism.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;51002082]It was in every previous game and no one cared.[/QUOTE] Thats my point. It was fine previously but as of late people are throwing massive hissy fits over the stupidest shit.

Okay but that's not [URL="http://gamerant.com/uncharted-4-wont-have-doughnut-drake/"]why they removed it[/URL] unless you think they are just lying.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;51002274]Okay but that's not [URL="http://gamerant.com/uncharted-4-wont-have-doughnut-drake/"]why they removed it[/URL] unless you think they are just lying.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=The Article]Druckmann explained that Naughty Dog “didn’t want to have a laugh at someone’s expense.” Given that the studio has previously been commended for efforts to promote diversity in the characters presented in its games, it’s easy to see why the skin could be seen as something of a double standard.[/QUOTE] There was definitely some social considerations involved, how you want to interpret that is up to you.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;51002274]Okay but that's not [URL="http://gamerant.com/uncharted-4-wont-have-doughnut-drake/"]why they removed it[/URL] unless you think they are just lying.[/QUOTE] Well yeah, of course they're lying. It doesnt really take any leaps in logic to see that they're just coming up with an excuse to not include something that'll get ludicrous amounts of backlash for no reason due to recent trends, and they're not going to outright SAY that. You dont go to the effort of planning out and modelling up a whole new thing and then just cut it because "well shit i guess we're too old now." Something like that would've been decided upon before any serious work would've been had on it. Shit gets cut, of course, but costumes rarely are ever fully modeled up for games and cut just because. I mean right here, this quote: [quote]Druckmann explained that Naughty Dog “didn’t want to have a laugh at someone’s expense.”[/quote] Is exactly all i need to know to see the real reason why they didnt include it.

-snip-

[QUOTE=Big Bang;50998545]This is dumb because it effectively does nothing. Like for fuck's sake it's the same argument than what she's ever done before, in fact, it's even worse this time because it contradicts itself in the same video, criticizing Overwatch for its slender female characters then praising it for Mai, Zarya and Ana. Same with League of Legends, listing Ashe, Ahri, Fiora, while dismissing Tristana and Illaoi and forgetting to mention Poppy, Sejuani, Kayle, Kindred, Taliyah, Lulu or Kalista. Or Rek'sai, for crying out loud: [thumb]http://news.cdn.leagueoflegends.com/public/images/pages/rs/img/RS_WP.jpg[/thumb] The argument becomes even more dumb when you realize that the male characters actually suffer from the [I]exact same issue[/I] and she just cherry picks some examples while completely ignoring how the fat character is more often than not the joke character regardless of gender (Which is in no small part due to cultural differences with Japan, who for some reason find fat people to be hilarious). Gragas from League of Legends is not exactly taken seriously, and in fact, most of the male human cast in League of Legends are just buff dudes with little variation in body shape, like Garen, Lee Sin, Jarvan IV, Darius, Yasuo, Tryndamere, Varus or Xin Zhao. The truth is ultimately that this has to do with videogame stories being really shit and not really allowing for [I]real[/I] characters to be presented. League of Legends characters have these proportions because they're intended to be idyllic figures that can stand on their own without any explanation, they're meant to have strong silhouettes and striking visual identities, they're not meant to be real people. They USED to be very stereotypical when League of Legends first came out, because characters suffered from both lazy design and backstories (Literally the backstory of all the characters was some variation of "he/she had a dark and mysterious past") but they've been steadily getting more developed over the years. There's a reason why videogames aren't like The Sopranos where every character is fat and/or old, and that's because there are no writers of that caliber in the industry, in no small part because they get treated [I]horribly[/I] by the community, particularly when they dare to do anything not PC.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Big Bang;50998575]That's not what I said, I mentioned The Sopranos because it is a stark contrast in terms of characters compared to League of Legends, they're flawed, they're multidimensional, they don't really have clear goals or objectives, they're meant to resemble real people, you have a wide age range and an ample variety of body types that plays against expectations as none of the actors are distinctively or unusually attractive except for the ones that are meant to be that way. It's not that you can't have a good story with every cast member being athletic and attractive, but the actual problem is not a gender issue, it's a more general problem of video game narratives being extremely stale, and no matter how many fat old black lesbian ladies you add to a game that's not going to help that. Anita's idea of having to push diversity because you GOTTA have them or else, is utterly counterproductive.[/QUOTE] I don't quite get this. You're comparing two things that are completely different. On one hand, you have a serious story focusing on the mob, on the other you have a game that barely even has a story, and frankly doesn't even need one. If you're looking for story or narrative in a video game, the multiplayer MOBA shooter? Probably not the place you should be looking. There's plenty of good stories in video games, in genres that actually need them.

[QUOTE=maddogsamurai;50997644]or just make a slightly overweight cop in a action game.[/QUOTE] I mean we already had fat and bald Max in Max Payne 3, and it was pretty great.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;51001513]Can you bring up any other games that have many different body types of either gender? Most games have normal weight characters for both genders because generally fat people don't fit into the context of the game very well. Like what other genres could you see fat people in? Fat Emily stealthing around in dishonored? The vast majority of games are shooters and platformers so of course people are going to mostly bring those up.[/QUOTE] slower paced survival horror is perfect for a fat character.

[QUOTE=LTJGPliskin;51002797]I mean we already had fat and bald Max in Max Payne 3, and it was pretty great.[/QUOTE] I honestly like how he eats shit if you dive into a wall or a bad angle. It really reflects his age and skill deterioration compared to the first 2 games.

[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;51003211]slower paced survival horror is perfect for a fat character.[/QUOTE] Would definitely suit the type of horror game where the player character can only sprint for five seconds.

[QUOTE=AaronM202;51002502]Well yeah, of course they're lying. .[/QUOTE] I guess we will just have to agree to disagree because we are reading a statement and reaching diametrically opposed conclusions

[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;51003211]slower paced survival horror is perfect for a fat character.[/QUOTE] I'd actually agree particularly with tank controls. Shame survival horror is dead.

No More Heroes had Speed Buster as the #3 ranked assassin in the world. But her being fat didn't affect her killing style so it made sense in the game's context. She was a sniper that passed herself off as a crotchety aging woman who was hard of hearing.