Out of control pit bulls as they attack multiple people in the middle of the street while their owne - General

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;48684396]I'm calling for the rather benign legislation of banning the breeding of pitbulls with other pitbulls (allowing only pairing with mongrels), which I think would be a good workaround to the issue and leave both parties happy.[/QUOTE] That's not benign at all. After enough generations, the pitbull as a genetically distinct breed would be gone. You're effectively calling for the eradication of the breed through selective breeding laws. It's far less extreme than forcibly taking them from their owners and executing them, but it's still extermination, just over a very long period of time. Not to mention that it would need to be heavily enforced or the law would be a waste of time. It would ultimately be a huge waste of resources when you can host classes to educate people on the dogs and how to deal with them, then have a special tag given to them when they license their dog and a little stamped card saying that they're certified to own the dogs. Then they're registered to that dog and if that dog causes trouble, it's the owner's ass that gets kicked for not controlling their dog. It's the same way with vehicles and guns. If I were to have a negligent discharge with a handgun or rifle, if someone were hurt, I'd be in serious trouble. Likewise, if I didn't pay attention on the road while driving and hit a pedestrian, I'd also be in serious trouble. Why not have a system like that for large, powerful breeds like these and other dogs?

Personally I think it comes down to the competency of the owner. If you want to handle an animal, you should have the knowledge, skill, and facilities to be able to control that animal in the event of it going berserk, however unlikely that event might be. After all, neither genetics nor training determine an animal's behavior entirely. Therefore, I'd feel a lot more comfortable if the human responsible for them knew what to do if things went wrong. I believe that a test and license system would be the way to go. Create a baseline for the kind of owner that can own certain animals (or breeds of dog) so that we can insure that more owners will be competent ones.

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;48665623]Last time I checked, most - if not all - dogs who attack people have to be put down, because one of the reasons could be that they probably won't treat people the same way as before the attack, and could become increasingly dangerous and almost impossible to re-educate... or so I've read. [editline]12th September 2015[/editline] I've read some time ago that there are a few bloodlines of German/Belgian shepherds that can also be very agressive, yet I've never heard of those attacking people nearly as much as these other breeds do. It's always the same breeds; rottweilers and/or pitbulls. [editline]12th September 2015[/editline] Also, as a non-dog person, I think they're more beautiful than pitbulls and rottweilers, love that black fur that gives them a wolf-ish kinda look [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/5kVV7Rg.jpg[/IMG] The way I see it, rottweilers and pitbulls are cool among "bros" because they think they're just badass, and are fetishized (that is to say, the dog ends up being an extension of their cocks, just like their jacked-up pickup trucks), but they know nothing about how to raise a dog, and unfortunately most of them end up on the wrong hands... which leads to incidents like these.[/QUOTE] That pretty much sums it up. Friend of my dad's has a pitbull-staffie cross who's soft as balls to the point he still jumps on his lap as if he were a puppy. The only time he ever growls is when he's playing and even then he's never snapped or came across as aggressive. Just soft. The reason you see breeds such as Pitbulls and Rottweilers in the news is because you get thuggish types who take them in thinking with the whole stereotype of aggression that they'd make good attack dogs. It's down to how they're treated more than anything.

[QUOTE=GordonZombie;48685921]That pretty much sums it up. Friend of my dad's has a pitbull-staffie cross who's soft as balls to the point he still jumps on his lap as if he were a puppy. The only time he ever growls is when he's playing and even then he's never snapped or came across as aggressive. Just soft. The reason you see breeds such as Pitbulls and Rottweilers in the news is because you get thuggish types who take them in thinking with the whole stereotype of aggression that they'd make good attack dogs. It's down to how they're treated more than anything.[/QUOTE] And how do you explain the part where Pits make up most of the fatal dog attacks in the US? If you're going to post that picture with "These dogs were misidentified as pits" then I'd like to see some backing to that statement more than some post on a pit lover's tu

[QUOTE=GordonZombie;48685921]That pretty much sums it up. Friend of my dad's has a pitbull-staffie cross who's soft as balls to the point he still jumps on his lap as if he were a puppy. The only time he ever growls is when he's playing and even then he's never snapped or came across as aggressive. Just soft. The reason you see breeds such as Pitbulls and Rottweilers in the news is because you get thuggish types who take them in thinking with the whole stereotype of aggression that they'd make good attack dogs. It's down to how they're treated more than anything.[/QUOTE] Important to note that the pit bull you mentioned is a crossbreed and thus less susceptible to the fits of aggressiveness purebred pit bulls suffer from. Considering the inbreeding pit bulls go through, it's fair to assume they're not mentally stable and part of the reason they're so aggressive is due to centuries of cultivating this mental instability via selective breeding.

[QUOTE=Fapplejack;48686088]And how do you explain the part where Pits make up most of the fatal dog attacks in the US? If you're going to post that picture with "These dogs were misidentified as pits" then I'd like to see some backing to that statement more than some post on a pit lover's tu[/QUOTE] Every time one of these stories pops up people abandon their pit bulls and rotties. Those dogs don't always get put down or go to good people. Hence more dog attacks because people are knee jerking

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;48686159]Every time one of these stories pops up people abandon their pit bulls and rotties. Those dogs don't always get put down or go to good people. Hence more dog attacks because people are knee jerking[/QUOTE] Can you post a source to that? Cause I'm almost completely sure that if you account for most abandoned dog breeds (which are not pitbulls, but various terriers, collies and German Shepherds) then the results would still show a disproportionate amount of attacks caused by pitbulls. I quoth: [quote]However, the frequency of pit bull attacks among these worst-in-10,000 cases is so disproportionate that even if half of the attacks in the pit bull category were misattributed, or [B]even if the pit bull category was split four ways, attacks by pit bulls and their closest relatives would still outnumber attacks by any other breed.[/B][/quote]

[QUOTE=Snapster;48670207]If you come across something like this here is a video of how to stop the attack. [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ebR37K8hDg[/media][/QUOTE] Wait, why didn't he talk more about the throat thing that seems more helpful if you're being attacked, should we jam our fingers into it's oesophagus to make it gag?

[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;48684782]Jesus like... I know it sucks to say because I'm an animal lover but someone should have seriously broken both dogs's necks. That guy was seriously injured and they could have downright killed him. Everyone was so careful not to harm the dogs and I don't get why.[/QUOTE] Uh, because not everyone has the training to kill a large and vicious attack dog (let alone TWO of them)? They're afraid of their own lives? Need I go on?

[QUOTE=zombini;48685350]That's not benign at all. After enough generations, the pitbull as a genetically distinct breed would be gone. You're effectively calling for the eradication of the breed through selective breeding laws. It's far less extreme than forcibly taking them from their owners and executing them, but it's still extermination, just over a very long period of time. Not to mention that it would need to be heavily enforced or the law would be a waste of time. It would ultimately be a huge waste of resources when you can host classes to educate people on the dogs and how to deal with them, then have a special tag given to them when they license their dog and a little stamped card saying that they're certified to own the dogs. Then they're registered to that dog and if that dog causes trouble, it's the owner's ass that gets kicked for not controlling their dog. It's the same way with vehicles and guns. If I were to have a negligent discharge with a handgun or rifle, if someone were hurt, I'd be in serious trouble. Likewise, if I didn't pay attention on the road while driving and hit a pedestrian, I'd also be in serious trouble. Why not have a system like that for large, powerful breeds like these and other dogs?[/QUOTE] Because breeding pitbulls is in itself also cruel to the dogs. Pitbulls are a horribly inbred breed with a huge number of genetic ailments. I'd call for the ban to be extended to all pedigree dogs, because by and large a pedigree dog suffers from a lot of inbreeding due to having an extremely limited pool of potential mates. Additionally, most dog breeds that have ever existed are already extinct - either lost through turning into a new breed or becoming so inbred that they were unable to effectively function. I don't see the problem considering that people will be breeding dogs that are happy and healthy, rather than sickly ones that constantly suffer due to a breeders and/or owners ignorance of genetics and/or lack of concern for the dogs health.

I have a mutt that's part pit bull, part everything else. She was a rescue dog and her past is unknown, but all the evidence pointed towards abuse. If a male came over to pet her she would cower when you raised your hand, she wants nothing to do with the outdoors when a water hose is being used, and if shes even lightly scolded she rolls over and submits to you. It's fairly obvious she was abused. At the same time, she's very loving, [I]very[/I] protective, and has aggressive outbursts. If all you do is try to breed out aggressive breeds, it's not going to make anything better. People who sell aggressive breeds need to know who they're selling to, to make sure they're in a family that won't abuse the dog and make the aggression come out. People who buy rescue pit bulls and pit bull mixes need to be aware of the potential dangers of having an aggressive dog that was abused and improperly trained. Pit bulls are more aggressive than other breeds, so are German Shepherds, and some others. They're all good breeds that can love and care for you. I feel like pits are the "worst" because that breed specifically exists to fight, and so there's a higher chance that the dog you're buying has fought/had a bad past owner. You need to take extra care with aggressive breeds or they will walk all over you.

It's an anecdote, of course, but my sister got her purebred pit because of the stigma surrounding them, noone wanted the runt of a purebred litter because "omg dangerous dog it's gonna kill people" Not only that, but her neighbors used to give her shit for having a pitbull, even though the dog has never ran from the house or hurt anyone. People are just assholes.

I like pits. I thought I was gonna die when the neighbors' ran out their door and bolted at me but she rolled over on my feet as soon as she reached me and did nothing but follow me around and lick me for 10 minutes after that. I've known several, never personally seen them as aggressive. I've only been [I]attacked[/I] by a blue heeler. Once I scared my grandma's chow/retriever mix and he accidentally bit me, but I don't count that.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;48665613]Pitbulls and Rottweilers are responsible for most dog attacks and most lethal dog attacks. They are dangerous breeds and people shouldn't be allowed to put other peoples lives at risk by owning them. The history doesn't matter. If they're not dangerous now we don't need to even bother.[/QUOTE] I own 4 Rotties, and the only time they have ever shown aggression is when my neighbor crossed into my yard to yell at me for putting a fence up on MY PROPERTY to block his dogs, and even then all they did was run up next to me, growling and showing that they would protect me. So please, you, Lord M, and anyone else who thinks that because a dog based on their breed are bad/evil, take that ignorant opinion and kindly place it in your sector of your lower body.

[QUOTE=Daddy-of-war;48688310]I own 4 Rotties, and the only time they have ever shown aggression is when my neighbor crossed into my yard to yell at me for putting a fence up on MY PROPERTY to block his dogs, and even then all they did was run up next to me, growling and showing that they would protect me. So please, you, Lord M, and anyone else who thinks that because a dog based on their breed are bad/evil, take that ignorant opinion and kindly place it in your sector of your lower body.[/QUOTE] That's like saying "Yeah that brand of cellphone has had a recurring defect of exploding without reason in their owner's pocket but I've used the cellphone for years without it exploding so it's not a problem." Please read up on the basic rules of debate such as "Do not use anecdotes to rebut statistics" and when you're done please come back with a better argument.

[QUOTE=Fapplejack;48693233]That's like saying "Yeah that brand of cellphone has had a recurring defect of exploding without reason in their owner's pocket but I've used the cellphone for years without it exploding so it's not a problem." Please read up on the basic rules of debate such as "Do not use anecdotes to rebut statistics" and when you're done please come back with a better argument.[/QUOTE] Wouldn't common sense suggest it is the owner's fault things like this happen rather than the dogs'? Dogs don't just decide one day to go chase somebody and rip them to shreds if they're trained, handled, and treated well. And if you had such an aggressive dog, that it might just go mad on some unsuspecting people, wouldn't you take precautions for things like this not to happen? If all pitbull owners had training on how to raise an aggressive breed we wouldn't have problems like this. Pitbulls don't just roam the suburbs and cities on their own, you know.

[QUOTE=CoilingTesla;48694653]Wouldnt common sense suggest it is the owner's fault things like this happen rather than the dogs'? Dogs don't just decide one day to go chase somebody and rip them to shreds if they're trained, handled, and treated well.[/QUOTE] Some breeds of dogs are considerably more likely than others to turn aggressive and need special training to remain calm, which is the case of pit bulls. Other species will not turn aggressive without training and will just not be obedient. Every dog needs to be treated well, but treating a dog well isn't what determines whether a dog is going to be aggressive or not in general. Dogs have a pack mentality and will apply this mentality to their relations with human beings. This is why dogs are trained and handled the way they are. You can treat your dog well and he can be your buddy as a response but that doesn't mean he won't turn aggressive to foreign elements that he considers a threat or a contender to the pack, and it doesn't mean he won't turn aggressive on [I]you[/I] if it feels like it's being dominant than you. Which is why people saying "I own #dogs of that breed and they've always been adorable and nice" don't actually make a valid point because any dog you raise and treat nicely will be nice to you in return.

That's why you expose them to situations where they won't have dominance and will be approached by people who could be "threats" We are smarter than the dogs if you didn't know, you can train them for any situation, including not acting out on aggressive impulses. Obviously it's not so simple anyone can do it, but anyone willing to train their dog to be around other people and animals can keep them from going berserk over dominance issues or possible threats. They're not wild animals roaming the streets ffs.

I'd much rather have people own and poorly handle species known to be tame and shy than have people own and poorly handle species known to be aggressive and dangerous. Pit Bulls were, and still are, a mistake. They were born from immoral motives and they still exist due to immoral motives.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;48694772]I'd much rather have people own and poorly handle species known to be tame and shy than have people own and poorly handle species known to be aggressive and dangerous. Pit Bulls were, and still are, a mistake. They were born from immoral motives and they still exist due to immoral motives.[/QUOTE] But they're still living things that deserve compassion. They're not monsters that need to be made extinct. Even if they're owned by gang bangers and fuckheads. Sheesh, should we start getting rid of children that were "mistakes" too lol

[QUOTE=RichyZ;48694814]no one is really advocating killing them all, but rather breeding them all out so they get more genetic diversity and lose the aggressiveness thats in their genes[/QUOTE] That's fine, but muh freedoms will laugh at you if you try to take my baby killing monster dog away from me.

[QUOTE=Tacooo;48686305]Wait, why didn't he talk more about the throat thing that seems more helpful if you're being attacked, should we jam our fingers into it's oesophagus to make it gag?[/QUOTE] No. The kernel of truth in the mythos of pit bull atracks is that they have very strong jaws. Whenever you're involved in a fight with a dog you want to stay behind and above them as much as possible.

[QUOTE=CoilingTesla;48694789]But they're still living things that deserve compassion. They're not monsters that need to be made extinct. Even if they're owned by gang bangers and fuckheads. Sheesh, should we start getting rid of children that were "mistakes" too lol[/QUOTE] Nobody ever said anything about killing already living dogs (unless they already turned aggressive and tried to kill people, then they need to be put down). The issues Pit Bulls have are all caused by selective breeding and further inbreeding to maintain the race as "purebred". If you outlaw this practice on this specific breed of dog and instead encourage people to either not breed their dog or breed it with other kinds of dogs to create mutts (who would not suffer from the same aggressiveness issues, at least not nearly on the same level), then you progressively "fix" the breed over a few generations until their issues are gone. As it stands now, species like the Bulldog (a horribly malformed, obese, disease-ridden piece of shit as it stands now) would essentially revert back to how they looked a couple of centuries ago in a matter of a few generations of careful cross-breeding. The entire purebred system is why so many dogs are physically and mentally fucked beyond belief, and allowing this practice to continue is thousands of times more immoral than preventing owners over a few years from perpetrating this abomination of a system.

[QUOTE=srobins;48665651]This is a bad attitude to have. Pit bulls aren't magically born as evil child eaters, if they're raised as a normal dog they're some of the most loyal and friendly breeds there are. There's a reason there is such a massive pit bull rescue community: to get these dogs out of abusive homes and into the families that will love them and care for them. German shepherds are bred by police for agression and the ability to completely dominate a human, but they're undeniably great pets.[/QUOTE] No, this is simply ignorant look at things. German Shepherd was bred as a herding dog, a job which requires them to be very intelligent to understand how herding works, but also capable of very strong self control (so they wouldn't by a chance harm the animals they were meant to be herding). They are by the biological nature of their brain reliable, well trainable and that's why the police chooses them and further trains them. Pitbull was a breed which was directly bred for aggression and combat. They are [B]biologically[/B] in a way that makes them more aggressive and easier to provoke. You can have a badly trained German Shepherd that will be aggressive and bite faces off kids, and you can have a well trained Pitbull that wouldn't harm a fly, but that doesn't mean the breeds are equal, they are not. When it comes to actual handling of these animals, my opinion is that these breeds that were bred towards aggression should be only allowed to live with people who prove they are well capable of rising them properly and being able to reign them in. The dog is literally bred as a weapon, lets handle it that way, then; require the person who wants one to obtain a license that will require them to be examined (and presumably undergo training) to ensure they are able to handle that kind of a dog.

[QUOTE=RichyZ;48694755]when it all comes down to it a shitty owner for most other dogs will just mean a disobedient or perpetually scared animal a shitty owner for aggressive breeds means the dog will be a fucker and want to kill people we're never going to be able to completely get rid of shitty owners, and some aren't even shitty on purpose[/QUOTE] By the way, define "shitty". I've heard a lot of horror stories about dogs, but what makes a dog want to kill people in the first place? Is the owner aggressive, making the dog aggressive? Or does more play into it? I've always looked at it as the former, but I guess different viewpoints could be informative.

Fuck that I would have been beating those dogs to death if I was they guy with the baseball bat.

Not gonna argue semantics or debate but I just want to say that A. I believe these dogs to have been trained wrong, that much is obvious by the way they behaved. and B. that I do own a Pit Bull mix breed and I know firsthand that they are a hard train sometimes, if you are going to buy a dog that can get big enough to do harm to anyone you have to devote time to it, period. It doesn't matter what breed/genetic history/previous owner, you are accepting the responsibility of training the dog. if you do then they will grow to be a faithful companion 9/10 times, and as a final thought I do realize the breed has been convicted of doing much harm to people through trainer incompetency and sometimes just having a dog with a shitty personality. My dog is very paranoid and though she has never bit anyone if you get right up to her face without her being used to you she is gonna growl, other than that she is great with my niece and my twin nephews (ages 4 and 3 respectively) and she is a great addition to my family. Although I wish I could get her to stop chewing on shoes. >.> TL;DR Don't buy a big dog capable of doing harm if you aren't serious about actually training the damned thing. [editline]17th September 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Incoming.;48698209]By the way, define "shitty". I've heard a lot of horror stories about dogs, but what makes a dog want to kill people in the first place? Is the owner aggressive, making the dog aggressive? Or does more play into it? I've always looked at it as the former, but I guess different viewpoints could be informative.[/QUOTE] Dog's read alot from the people they trust, an aggressive owner can equate to an aggressive pet but in my experience the bad eggs come from owners who are too paranoid/antsy because when the pet figures out you are on edge it gets on edge and it can't reason exactly what your stressed about so it can actually make them fly off the handle. Overall the owner needs to stay calm especially around strangers or in public and assert their dominance while remaining natural to keep the animal feeling stress free.

I think as far as ownership regulations go it should be more strongly recognized that some breeds just demand more of a training skill from the owner than others. I agree that attack dogs, if raised properly can behave like any well domesticated pet dog, but it is just not as easily done. I see no reason why ownership of certain breeds shouldn't require a sort of special permission. I mean, if you really want to own a friendly dog, there are so many breeds to choose from but if you want a dog with the capability to attack efficiently for security concerns, it should be made sure that you are actually capable of training and controlling such an animal. As far as an all out ban on breeding certain dogs goes, I feel largely indifferent. As far as animal rights go, I can see no issue there. No animal would be harmed, only virtues such as 'skill', 'knowledge' and 'tradition' of dog breeding are actually affected, assuming this wouldn't mean all out euthanasia of dogs already bread.

[QUOTE=OvB;48686942]I have a mutt that's part pit bull, part everything else. She was a rescue dog and her past is unknown, but all the evidence pointed towards abuse. If a male came over to pet her she would cower when you raised your hand, she wants nothing to do with the outdoors when a water hose is being used, and if shes even lightly scolded she rolls over and submits to you. It's fairly obvious she was abused. At the same time, she's very loving, [I]very[/I] protective, and has aggressive outbursts. If all you do is try to breed out aggressive breeds, it's not going to make anything better. People who sell aggressive breeds need to know who they're selling to, to make sure they're in a family that won't abuse the dog and make the aggression come out. People who buy rescue pit bulls and pit bull mixes need to be aware of the potential dangers of having an aggressive dog that was abused and improperly trained. Pit bulls are more aggressive than other breeds, so are German Shepherds, and some others. They're all good breeds that can love and care for you. I feel like pits are the "worst" because that breed specifically exists to fight, and so there's a higher chance that the dog you're buying has fought/had a bad past owner. You need to take extra care with aggressive breeds or they will walk all over you.[/QUOTE] Unfortunately more often than not it's the idiots who don't know how to raise them and bought their dogs for protection or attacking, that are the ones breeding them and selling them to like-minded people.

holy shit, i regret watching this. that guy was pretty much bleeding out on the floors and the dogs just kept coming.