[QUOTE=Devodiere;32407951][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathy#Neurological_basis[/url]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_neuron#Empathy[/url]
It is an actual problem in sociopaths and if Alex is a sociopath now, he'll always be a sociopath. I can imagine he would try to reform himself but the issues present in high functioning sociopaths would still be present. Although you are wrong about Kubrick disagreeing. It wasn't him, it was the people who published the book in America.[/QUOTE]
Whilst I don't doubt that mirror neurons are involved in empathy, I disagree that such a dysfunction is permanent (by which I mean unmanageable), whether that be alleviated through pharmacology or what have you (of course the prognosis is poor, and treatment would be difficult). Considering the high functioning status of sociopaths, and their relative prevalence, I find any notion of a dichotomous empathy/no empathy to be absurd.
[quote]Interviewer: The end of A Clockwork Orange is different from the one in the Burgess book.
Kubrick: There are two different versions of the novel. One has an extra chapter. I had not read this version until I had virtually finished the screenplay. This extra chapter depicts the rehabilitation of Alex.[B] But it is, as far as I am concerned, unconvincing and inconsistent with the style and intent of the book. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the publisher had somehow prevailed upon Burgess to tack on the extra chapter against his better judgment[/B], so the book would end on a more positive note. I certainly never gave any serious consideration to using it.[/quote]
[editline]22nd September 2011[/editline]
[url]http://www.visual-memory.co.uk/amk/doc/interview.aco.html[/url]
Well there you go. Brofisting with my man Kubrick on that one.
It isn't a dichotomy and although I'm sure you could try conditioning a sociopath to feel empathy, it's like teaching someone who was deaf how to hear.
Ironically it's everyone else misinterpreting what Burgess is trying to say rather than him tacking on an extra chapter because he wanted to make it all sunshine and rainbows. Determining that rehabilitation was impossible and the purpose was obviously that nothing works rather than you're doing it wrong.
Almost 100 pages..
KEEP POSTING ME PRECIOUSES
[QUOTE=Devodiere;32408356]It isn't a dichotomy and although I'm sure you could try conditioning a sociopath to feel empathy, it's like teaching someone who was deaf how to hear.
Ironically it's everyone else misinterpreting what Burgess is trying to say rather than him tacking on an extra chapter because he wanted to make it all sunshine and rainbows. Determining that rehabilitation was impossible and the purpose was obviously that nothing works rather than you're doing it wrong.[/QUOTE]
I don't know, there was so much focus on Alex being a psychopath, and then the very small addition of 'oh and suddenly he grew up' as the final chapter. I'm with Kubrick, whether or not it was, it DOES seem tacked on. It feels like even WITH that ending, up until it, the message was that sociopath's dont change. And then it's like 'oh btw they do the end'.
It just feels unrealistic and like the book itself has some crossed wires going. I haven't read it myself, but if it's at all like the film, sans the ending, then the message is pretty much non existant, not even foreshadowed, until the very end of the book.
Are you guys still discussing clockwork orange
Clockwork Orange is a good movie.
Okay, discussion ended.
World's Greatest Dad
8/10
Although the title deceived many people, it's actually the weirdest movie...
Robin Williams is always superb, but this is one of those dark comedies that messes with you slightly. Still very good, recommended.
Back to the Future:
Number One: 8/10
Good, easy to see why it's a classic. Aged a little though.
Number Two: 7/10
Funny references to the first one, but doesn't stand up to the plot of the first.
Number Three: 8
Awesome trilogy.
[QUOTE=AK'z;32408996]Clockwork Orange is a good movie.
Okay, discussion ended.
World's Greatest Dad
8/10
Although the title deceived many people, it's actually the weirdest movie...
Robin Williams is always superb, but this is one of those dark comedies that messes with you slightly. Still very good, recommended.[/QUOTE]
I love World's Greatest Dad. It's the closest a film has gotten me to crying. It does such a good job at being sad despite the character being one of the most easily hateable characters ever.
[QUOTE=SuperLoz;32409167]Back to the Future:
Number One: 8/10
Good, easy to see why it's a classic. Aged a little though.
Number Two: 7/10
Funny references to the first one, but doesn't stand up to the plot of the first.
Number Three: 8
Awesome trilogy.[/QUOTE]
I'm not a fan of the trilogy as a whole. The first is the most memorable and watchable for me.
You know who I mean
[editline]22nd September 2011[/editline]
wOW UVE DESTROYED MY MERGe i am going to cry
In ways it's uplifting, depressing and then again hilarious at the same time.
They couldn't have cast someone better than Robin Williams.
Children of Men
9/10
Such a great film
Titanic 10/10
Beautiful movie,ending made me cry.
I agree with Rusty with A Clockwork Orange. Alex was definitely a geniune psychopath and uncurable. You can't cure the brain to make it "normal". It's how he is. Not a shred of remorse was shown for his action,s and no empathy for his victims. Nothing close. Simply put he's fucked in the head and that can't be changed. It's his head, not his personality or surrounding or friends or whatever. It's him. "fixing" him would just be stupid as fuck and pretty much make the entire film redundant, as well as being incredibly unrealistic and cheesy. Just doesn't make sense.
Anyway, I watched Alfred Hitchcock's "Psycho" last night. (1960) 9/10
Brilliant and bloody genius. Probably Hitchcock's best. While watching it was good, but not fantastic like everyone seemed to make it out to be. But [sp]I first started to question when I noticed that when it was the mother who murdered Marion, but I wasn't very sure. That was basically where things started to get interesting, then when she killed the private Investigator I was really fucking loving it. Just got better and better as things started to unravel right up until the end, which was great[/sp] The whole film really was filled with literally edge of my seat tension, the plot was fantastic and just grabbed me more and more as it progressed. Oh, and i was incredibly impressed with Anthony Perkins' role Norman Bates, it was really fantastic.
It's going to be the main film we're studying in my media studies class and I can see why, should be great to write about, so much in it.
I didn't think psycho was anything special, not a bad movie, but meh
[QUOTE=DrBreen;32411440]I didn't think psycho was anything special, not a bad movie, but meh[/QUOTE]
That's the issue with watching films that have been so influential, yet are 50 years old.
Kick Ass
Meh, 8 out of 10.
The action scenes were too unrealistic to be good.
Cowboys and Aliens, and I'll give it 3 wags of a rusty nail out of a bottle of scotch. Why? Because combining scotch and nails (rusty or not) is a waste of scotch. Just like how watching Cowboys and Aliens was a waste of my time.
[QUOTE=Contag;32411762]That's the issue with watching films that have been so influential, yet are 50 years old.[/QUOTE] I dunno I really don't think films age. They're timeless imo, but I do know that lots of people seem to really not get into older films, because of things like censorship (seriously fucking stupid from about the 20s through to the 50's. Catholic Church did that lol) and lack of tech and shit. I get that but I personally am a huge fan of black and white cinema.
[QUOTE=Contag;32411762]That's the issue with watching films that have been so influential, yet are 50 years old.[/QUOTE]
There is no issue with the movie, only the person watching it.
The only scene is Psycho I don't like is that scene right before the end where the psychologist dude gives a big exposition speech about Normie's psychology. It's pretty unneeded and overwrought and anticlimactic and he could have easily just said just the lines, "Norman Bates no longer exists. He only half existed to begin with. And now, the other half has taken over, probably for all time." and we still coulda gotten the same idea except delivered a lot better.
Dirty Harry
8/10
Clint Eastwood is such a badass.
[QUOTE=RubberFruit;32411776]Kick Ass
Meh, 8 out of 10.
The action scenes were too unrealistic to be good.[/QUOTE]
Dude, kickass is awesome.
[QUOTE=pie_is_good;32413087]The only scene is Psycho I don't like is that scene right before the end where the psychologist dude gives a big exposition speech about Normie's psychology. It's pretty unneeded and overwrought and anticlimactic and he could have easily just said just the lines, "Norman Bates no longer exists. He only half existed to begin with. And now, the other half has taken over, probably for all time." and we still coulda gotten the same idea except delivered a lot better.[/QUOTE] I thought that was really clever. Although I guess i agree that the delivery could have been done a bit better but I didn't really notice while watching. Looking back it did drag a little though.
Also I just watched North By Northwest (1959) by Aflred Hitchcock because i am going on a hitchcock binge it seems.
Feeling a good 8/10. Enjoyed it thoroughly, the plot was incredibly clever, especially so for the time. I don't think Hitchcock could do a bad film if he tried cos it'd just end up being really clever or something lol
the best
The Accused. Watched Taxi Driver, Panic Room and The Silence of the Lambs last week so wanted to watch something else with Jodie Foster.
Got great reviews but it was pretty meh. 6/10
[QUOTE=Rusty100;32406895]I'm not basing it on media or something like that, it's a mix of historical observation and my dad, who is a shrink. there is a big difference between people who can change, and people who can't.
by and large, most people don't change even if they are capable of it.
but people who are genuine psychopaths do not because they are mentally incapable of not being a psychopath. a part of their brain is missing/not working the same was as a healthy brain does. it's not a matter of therapy and pills, there are some people who will always be the way they are.
alex is one of the people who has a brain dysfunction and cannot, and will not change. he fantasizes about rape and murder, he doesn't see the difference between right and wrong (only how other people perceive it), and he has killed and raped people. he feels no genuine remorse for his actions, nor does he feel any empathy or sympathy with them.
alex is a sociopath, and nothing in the world short of being bound and gagged forever could change that.[/QUOTE]
historical observation and your dad being a shrink?
so what you mind meld with your dad on a daily basis? and "historical observation" falls under media as i'm guessing you're talking about serial killers and all that bullshit.
you were never there on the front lines working with these kinds of people, in fact i highly doubt you've ever even been around these kinds of people.
you really have no idea what you're talking about
[QUOTE=FoodStuffs;32422701]historical observation and your dad being a shrink?
so what you mind meld with your dad on a daily basis? and "historical observation" falls under media as i'm guessing you're talking about serial killers and all that bullshit.
you were never there on the front lines working with these kinds of people, in fact i highly doubt you've ever even been around these kinds of people.
you really have no idea what you're talking about[/QUOTE]
so what that means you do work on the front lines with these kinds of people? are you gonna bring up the fact that you went crazy again? because I think my dad who is a trained psychologist, has worked in prisons, with the police, as a hostage negotiator, etc etc might know a little more than you. and i'm just relaying him here, there are types of people who can change and types who are incapable. even even people who are capable, typically do not change and accept the way they are because it's the easiest thing to do. sociopaths literally have a dysfunctional brain, and it cannot be fixed.
living with a single psychologist and being in therapy for most of your life with a colorful rainbow of different professionals are two completely different things.
i haven't worked on the front lines but i've met some pretty fucking crazy people and a few who used to be pretty fuckin crazy. I've seen many people get better, i don't have to mention myself either.
the brain isn't some completely logic based computer, when given a flawed syntax it doesn't go ERROR ERROR in most situations, it's capable of lateral thinking, dealing with the abstract and data that is flawed.
it is possible, that's all i'm saying, but i won't disagree completely when the failure rate is brought up. out of the many people i've seen get better there are just as many who get worse.
also Phineas Gage.
[editline]22nd September 2011[/editline]
one more thing, cases vary immensely, and people can become psychopaths as well as being born one.
from my experience and own research i can conclude that many if not all personality disorder diagnoses are something somewhat of a bunch of quasi-umbrella terms. nothing is completely definite, this goes for causes and symptoms, as well as prognosis.
[editline]22nd September 2011[/editline]
come to think about it i haven't exactly worked in a psych ward or anything (i've been to a lot of them though) but i have talked down a good number of people who had psychopathic tendencies during the daily drama in my stint of a year in treatment.
lets stop this here and get back on to topic, i do enjoy talking about such things as psychology is a little hobby of mine but this is a thread about movie discussion...
you're assuming that every kind of crazy is equally treatable. it's not. sure you met some crazies who were cured
how many of those committed numerous acts of murder and rape and had no remorse for it?
there's mental disorders that are a consequence of something, that's curable. when someone follows a logical pattern, ie i had a fucked up childhood so now I'm crazy, that's treatable. but when something has no rhyme and no reason, that's called genuinely fucked up with an actual problem with the brain and parts of it that do not function as normal brains do.
We're not talking garden variety schizophreniacs and bipolar people, we are talking about cold, calculated sociopaths
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