Why aliens couldn't have visted the Earth. - General

[QUOTE=Darkcoder;19122938]Straw man? I never anywhere in my life claimed that life existing here thus equals life existing elsewhere.[/QUOTE] Here's an argument against your math idea, taken from a friend on another forum. [quote]Simply put: if all the intelligent beings in the universe ceased to exist, would the statement "2+2=4" still be true? I would strongly argue no. The statement "2+2=4" is a construction based on definitions by mathematicians. It's truth is definitional, not empirical or metaphysical. The statement has no existence independent of the formal system of basic arithmetic it's defined within, and basic arithmetic - along with all abstracta - has no existence independent of the mathematicians or cognitive beings thinking about it. Therefore, if no intelligent beings existed, then no mathematicians exist, and hence no mathematical abstracta exist, and hence the statement "2+2=4" has no existence. The statement isn't false, it simply doesn't exist, and hence doesn't have either the property of trueness or falsity. [/quote] Our own definitions of the world we live in have no more justification than any other. Saying that x = x or 1+1=2 and using it as proof of logic is plain stupid. [QUOTE=Hunterbrute;19122947] Thats pretty much what x = x argument is.[/QUOTE] :iceburn:

[QUOTE=Benf199105;19122976] Our own definitions of the world we live in have no more justification than any other. Saying that x = x or 1+1=2 and using it as proof of logic is plain stupid. [/QUOTE] But you have to realize one small thing, any space faring civilization would have to develop some sort of mathematics and some sort of science. You cant just build a space bending or wormhole creating spacehsip out of nothing.

[QUOTE=Hunterbrute;19123006]But you have to realize one small thing, any space faring civilization would have to develop some sort of mathematics and some sort of science. You cant just build a space bending or wormhole creating spacehsip out of nothing.[/QUOTE] But go back to the argument. They could say 1+1=3. It's all relative. Our knowledge of something does not stop knowledge existing contrary to our belief. Edit: Yeh, they may create science, but it may be all "wrong" to us. The point i've been trying to make is that just because our scientists say "we cannot travel at the speed of light because of this this and this.." etc, in no way means we cannot travel at the speed of light, or surpass it, no matter how dumb that sounds. That's the point, technology is created through new knowledge and experiments, if we rested on our laurels we would still be in some dark age stabbing sabertooth tigers.

[QUOTE=Benf199105;19122976]Here's an argument against your math idea, taken from a friend on another forum. Our own definitions of the world we live in have no more justification than any other. Saying that x = x or 1+1=2 and using it as proof of logic is plain stupid.[/QUOTE] Woo a discussion about logic vs logical absolutes. I agree that 1+1=2 is meaningless in a world without minds because the whole concept of addition is man-made, the same goes to 1=1 when taken literally. However, when you say x=x you aren't talking about the mathematical equation(i.e. replacing x with some number), but instead that anything, be it a physical or abstract is itself, and isn't not itself etc. I would argue that these are logical absolutes and aren't contingent on any mind(of course to make this statement a mind is required) and if you've seen The Atheist Experience you may as well just listen to what Matt Dillahunty says as I share the same view as him on the subject thus there's no point in my repeating it.

[QUOTE=Darkcoder;19123067]Woo a discussion about logic vs logical absolutes. I agree that 1+1=2 is meaningless in a world without minds because the whole concept of addition is man-made, the same goes to 1=1 when taken literally. However, when you say x=x you aren't talking about the mathematical equation(i.e. replacing x with some number), but instead that anything, be it a physical or abstract is itself, and isn't not itself etc. I would argue that these are logical absolutes and aren't contingent on any mind(of course to make this statement a mind is required) and if you've seen The Atheist Experience you may as well just listen to what Matt Dillahunty says as I share the same view as him on the subject thus there's no point in my repeating it.[/QUOTE] Well it looks like this argument won't get solved any time soon then. I just think it's stupid to base logic on x=x, as you said you need a mind to prove logical absolutes, so logical absolutes aren't actually absolutes considering we are fallible. If we had a perfect mind we could prove/disprove it, but we don't so i say we stop using philosophical logical debates and leave it for another time.

[QUOTE=SlicedBread;19110350]Something I wrote. A large amount of people believe that aliens can, and have visited the earth. Some more extreme people even believe they made the pyramids, and helped evolution. These people have proof such as crop circles, (although the first crop circles were admitted as hoaxes by the creators, they even said the method they used to create the patterns) and sightings of UFO's, the aliens space ships. Now, lets say this is true. They are clearly very advance, to travel a good distance, and have complex ships. But, where did they come from? How long was the trip? We know for certain that there is no [B]intelligent[/B] life in the milky way system, besides us. So they can't be our cosmic next-door neighbors. So, wheres the closest they could possibly be? Let's be optimistic, and sey they are somewhere in the closest galaxy, the Andromeda galaxy. (even though this is very unlikely.) How far away is it? 2,500,000 Light years. That's alot. We know for a fact nothing, except light, can go at or over the speed of light. So let's be optimistic and say they went just under the speed of light, by a tiny smidge. Of course, then it would take [B]over[/B] 2,500,000 years. That's also alot. Two and a half million years. Keep in mind, about four thousand years ago, we had no civilizations. In 2,500,000 years, you'd think they would die, run out of energy or other essentials, or have ship problems, or something So, do you think aliens flew in a ship for 2,500,000 years? Longer then humans have really been on the earth? Keep this in mind as well. There is a really slim chance that they do live in the closest galaxy. So it could be more like 200,500,000 years! EDIT: Wanted to say that I personally think that there is definitely, somewhere some other intelligent life housing planet. EDIT: If there was a wormhole anywhere remotely near us, we would know about it, so that rule that out. And by near, I mean 3,000,000 light years. What do you guys think about what I just said?[/QUOTE] Who says light is the only thing that can go at light speed? Our physics says so, but for all we know it could be wrong, we are figuring out new technology everyday who's to say it's impossible? What if there's something in space we are not seeing? If there was a wormhole 3,000,000 light years away, there is no certainty we would know about it.

[QUOTE=Averice;19123203]Who says light is the only thing that can go at light speed? [/QUOTE] Theoretical particle known as a Tachyon, travels faster than the speed of light.

[QUOTE=Averice;19123203]Who says light is the only thing that can go at light speed? Our physics says so, but for all we know it could be wrong, we are figuring out new technology everyday who's to say it's impossible? What if there's something in space we are not seeing? If there was a wormhole 3,000,000 light years away, there is no certainty we would know about it.[/QUOTE] Even if we don't reach exact lightspeed, LS - ~500mp/h is good enough for space exploration.

[QUOTE=Kazumi;19123386]Even if we don't reach exact lightspeed, LS - ~500mp/h is good enough for space exploration.[/QUOTE] Only until we begin to travel outside of the solar system, and even within our solar system near light speed would cause some serious time dilation.

We don't know completely if there is or isn't life in the solar system.

[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;19123833]We don't know completely if there is or isn't life in the solar system.[/QUOTE] Life is everywhere, intelligent life "smart" like us however is unknown. :eng101:

[QUOTE=Hunterbrute;19123273]Theoretical particle known as a Tachyon, travels faster than the speed of light.[/QUOTE] Heh it's pretty sick, I think it has an imaginary mass, which according to the theories and stuff allows to travel faster than light.

[QUOTE=Swebonny;19123984]Heh it's pretty sick, I think it has an imaginary mass, which according to the theories and stuff allows to travel faster than light.[/QUOTE] But bringing it down to our speeds or even the speed of light would destroy the universe.

I'm so tired of the "herp derp we can't go faster than light since theories says so", theorists used to say that if you went above like 100km/hr your head would explode, back when they were trying to make cars faster. A theory is a theory, until you've tried, you can't be sure.

[QUOTE=SlicedBread;19110350] We know for certain that there is no [B]intelligent[/B] life in the milky way system, besides us. So they can't be our cosmic next-door neighbors. [/QUOTE] Did you pull that out of your ass? The SOL system there is no life but Earth, but to be so brazen as to say that the entirety of the Milky Way has no life....

It always pains me to think that people don't consider the possibly that there is life somewhere else out in the universe. I personally thank it's just people who are scared and want to make them feel as though they are special.

[QUOTE=NecronLord15;19124096]Did you pull that out of your ass? The SOL system there is no life but Earth, but to be so brazen as to say that the entirety of the Milky Way has no life....[/QUOTE] I really hate the idea that we could be alone. :frown: [QUOTE=Kamikaze;19124141]It always pains me to think that people don't consider the possibly that there is life somewhere else out in the universe. I personally thank it's just people who are scared and want to make them feel as though they are special.[/QUOTE] its the mentality from our stone age days and shortly after when people were told God created them for a reason and their life has purpose. The Universe is far more grand than anything the Bible or mentality following the bible can provide.

[QUOTE=faolco1;19110550]Here's a cool point you might want to consider, OP. This is also somewhat interesting. [url]http://www.unexplainable.net/artman/publish/article_2297.shtml[/url][/QUOTE] 1) There were a lot more trees back when they were building the pyramids. 2) They had one hell of a lot of slaves 3) People accept that people did unthinkably difficult act for religion in relatively recent years (building cathedrals, massive mosques, and so on), why does no one accept that ancient peoples could have done the same? [editline]02:11PM[/editline] [QUOTE=NecronLord15;19124096]Did you pull that out of your ass? The SOL system there is no life but Earth, but to be so brazen as to say that the entirety of the Milky Way has no life....[/QUOTE] Not necessarily. There could be something on Europa (a moon of Jupiter), it has H2O oceans under the ice, and a heat source in the centre of the planet. Also [quote=Arthur C Clarke]Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the idea is quite staggering[/quote]

[QUOTE=Negrul1;19124154]1) There were a lot more trees back when they were building the pyramids. 2) They had one hell of a lot of slaves 3) People accept that people did unthinkably difficult act for religion in relatively recent years (building cathedrals, massive mosques, and so on), why does no one accept that ancient peoples could have done the same? [editline]02:11PM[/editline] Not necessarily. There could be something on Europa (a moon of Jupiter), it has H2O oceans under the ice, and a heat source in the centre of the planet. Also[/QUOTE] Wrong, the piramides are build by the slaves from aliens called the goa'uld, as landing platforms for their piramide shaped spaceships. how can you not know that.

I like how when it comes to being visited by aliens, people sooner believe writers from 1000 AD than scientists now.

[QUOTE=Benf199105;19122773]That's bullshit and you're only quoting it as an argument because we have no proof against it, from our [B]current understanding[/B]. Close mindedness like this will only make our technology progression go slower. We [U]know [/U]NOTHING about the world we live in compared to what [U]we do not know[/U]. "Oh well maths says that we can't go faster than light so fuck it don't bother trying to experiment with this... etc" Bullshit.[/QUOTE] [url=http://www.geek.com/articles/gadgets/faster-than-light-radio-waves-could-revolutionize-computer-industries-20090630/]:D[/url]

[QUOTE=Cyrex;19124047]I'm so tired of the "herp derp we can't go faster than light since theories says so", theorists used to say that if you went above like 100km/hr your head would explode, back when they were trying to make cars faster. A theory is a theory, until you've tried, you can't be sure.[/QUOTE] The Earth used to be flat too. And we all new it for a FACT.

[QUOTE=wildwill;19126060]The Earth used to be flat too. And we all new it for a FACT.[/QUOTE] It wasn't quantifiable back then, they had every reason to believe that the Earth was flat. That doesn't mean that we don't [b]know[/b] that the Earth is round. We have seen it from a distance and are able to recognize the shape. The point I am getting at it that we gain perspective as time goes on. With the amount of knowledge we have so far is seems very shrewd to dismiss much what we know about physics to be as easily disproven as the shape of the Earth.

[QUOTE=Hunterbrute;19124028]But bringing it down to our speeds or even the speed of light would destroy the universe.[/QUOTE] Haven't heard of that one before. The lowest speed of the said Tachyon is the speed of light, I doubt you can bring it down to the speed of light as then its mass gets "real" aka non imaginary. Now I'm not the person that are able to talk about these kind of stuff. I wish Avon was here :v:

[QUOTE=Swebonny;19126198]Haven't heard of that one before. The lowest speed of the said Tachyon is the speed of light, I doubt you can bring it down to the speed of light as then its mass gets "real" aka non imaginary. Now I'm not the person that are able to talk about these kind of stuff. I wish Avon was here :v:[/QUOTE] Then post the link to this thread in the stargate thread, or pm him :v:.

[QUOTE=Kukuzi;19126142]It wasn't quantifiable back then, they had every reason to believe that the Earth was flat. That doesn't mean that we don't [b]know[/b] that the Earth is round. We have seen it from a distance and are able to recognize the shape. The point I am getting at it that we gain perspective as time goes on. With the amount of knowledge we have so far is seems very shrewd to dismiss much what we know about physics to be as easily disproven as the shape of the Earth.[/QUOTE] Many of the things that we view as FACT today we will look back on 100 years from now and laugh. As far as the OP in concerned. If there is alien life out there I really don't see why they would bother contacting us for anything. Our species is still fighting over a giant guy in the sky that invented everything.

[QUOTE=wildwill;19126465]Many of the things that we view as FACT today we will look back on 100 years from now and laugh. As far as the OP in concerned. If there is alien life out there I really don't see why they would bother contacting us for anything. Our species is still fighting over a giant guy in the sky that invented everything.[/QUOTE] He didn't invent everything, he wished for it, and then it was so!

[QUOTE=wildwill;19126465]Many of the things that we view as FACT today we will look back on 100 years from now and laugh. As far as the OP in concerned. If there is alien life out there I really don't see why they would bother contacting us for anything. Our species is still fighting over a giant guy in the sky that invented everything.[/QUOTE] No, you obviously don't have any grasp on the kind of information we have available today. As I have said before the math is there. You can choose to look over it and come to the conclusion that it could change in an instant, or 100 years for that matter. Anthropology can change on a whim, entomology can change: mathematic, physics, chemisty, etc can not be so easily changed. Maybe you should look into what we know now before you dismiss it so readily.

That ill researched point on there being no intelligent life in the Milky Way basically invalidates the rest of your argument.

[QUOTE=Kukuzi;19126504]No, you obviously don't have any grasp on the kind of information we have available today. As I have said before the math is there. You can choose to look over it and come to the conclusion that it could change in an instant, or 100 years for that matter. Anthropology can change on a whim, entomology can change: mathematic, physics, chemisty, etc can not be so easily changed. Maybe you should look into what we know now before you dismiss it so readily.[/QUOTE] What are you talking about? I think you went on a little rant there but provided no facts on anything?