[QUOTE=elowin;52285033]I feel like this video is pretty overly negative and frankly really unfair.
I mean yeah Spoony is in a downward spiral and is absolutely acting like an asshole right now, but this video doesn't really explore why. Most telling for me personally being how much the video focused on how much he hates his fans despite them all being supportive and concerned. Because I mean, that's literally just straight up bullshit and very obviously a result of poor research. Spoony has some of the most toxic ass fans you can find and yeah, there's actually a whole bunch of people pretty much just out to fuck with him. Spoony fans are fucking infamous for how insanely toxic they are. Obviously if you're looking at patreon posts those are going to be some of the most supportive ones out there since they're people who went out of their way to give him money and support, but even then there's quite a bit of negativity, which was ignored.
The whole Channel Awesome debacle was retarded. It was an insensitive joke. Black humor generally is. That's not even remotely a big deal at all, blown completely out of proportion. The ""meltdown"" that followed, or at least what was shown in this video, was him sarcastically pointing out how ridiculously overblown the reaction to it was. In my opinion, that series of sarcastic replies was pretty funny. Didn't think that original joke was that great, but it's still just an insensitive joke, and not even half way to 9/11 tier either.
As for the LordKat thing, that's just a massive crock of shit. I mean, not the D&D thing that was legitimately pretty rude, just kinda overblown. The rest of that debacle was a lot of ass and probably deserves it's own thing.
Anyway, I think the video is right that what really caused this all to spiral out of control for Noah were all his pledges though, although again I also feel like the video is putting it into a more malicious light through the implication that he was intending to use them as an excuse not to make more reviews. Frankly that's a ridiculous claim.
I'm gonna preface this by saying, I'm pretty damn sure Spoony has ADD. Probably a bunch of other mental illnesses as well. This has a plethora of implications, but the main things that are relevant here are that it's very, very difficult to concentrate on long term tasks that span days or weeks, let alone months. It's more difficult than it is for most to plan in the long term. It's more difficult to pace yourself and spread out the work. It's more difficult to stick to a schedule and it's more difficult to start and resume work on a project, even if you enjoy working on it.
With that preamble out of the way, I'm also going to say I won't pretend like I know much about Spoony's personal life, but from what I've seen, and with the obvious astrerisk that it's obviously a lot more complicated than this, for me it seems like his downwards spiral mostly boils down to this.
He's afraid of his fans' reaction. Because make no mistake, he cares. He cares a lot. He really, really wants people to like him, both as a person and as a comedian. But he probably feels like he has an obligation to fulfill those pledges even though he really can't possibly complete such large scale projects on his own, and so he delayed. And delayed. And kept delaying. After a while people start to get negative.
Every time he does anything he's faced with a barrage of negativity. Some of it simply because he isn't making the content they want anymore. Some of it because of those unfulfilled pledges which at this point he knows there's really no chance he could ever actually fulfill. Some of it is just outright malicious, often targeting his history of mental illness.
So he ends up isolating himself to places where he can largely ignore how things are falling down around him, causing people's reactions to him to get worse, causing him to isolate himself more, getting more depressed, further weakening his drive to resume his work.
And then all while this is happening, he's getting hooked on livestreams and Twitter. These things are extremely engaging and easy to get into, especially for people with ADD because of their short feedback loop and small time commitment. You might spend hours each day tweeting, checking your twitter, reading comments and so on, but all of these things are all divided into small chunks activity, which for someone with ADD is just far easier to deal with.
Anyway, this post ended up a lot longer than I originally intended. Basically what I want to say is, despite all his numerous mistakes, the sheer amount of hatred directed at Noah is totally undeserved. Frankly I don't think anyone deserves this kind of sheer focused negativity, and it's seriously no wonder to me that he's gone off the deep end with all this crap.[/QUOTE]
You're giving Spoony too much fuckin leeway.
If he really fucking cared then he'd be making videos, something, ANYTHING! He'd apologize for not delivering on his promises, but he fucking doesn't, he doesn't do ANYTHING! He does nothing but treat his fans poorly and shitpost on Twitter. You think he wen't from 5k to $700 on Patreon JUST because he wasn't delivering on his promises? That's naive, it is also in part because he is a dick to his fans and is addicted to Twitter.
You must know he is NOTORIOUS for taking ANY criticism badly, as if it's a direct attack on him.
I used to be a huge fan of Spoony but his behavior has become mostly indefensible imo.
[QUOTE=J!NX;52284876]I mean, with how much of a giant cunt Spoony is it doesn't seem that terrible
The dude had it coming, maybe she overstepped as a PR person but celebrating his firing, fuck it. When you act like a dickhead people are happy when you go.[/QUOTE]
Spoony is highly volatile (obviously) but what happened to him at that time was really uncalled for. In hindsight it looks like outright collusion to shitcan him.
I mean, im not excusing how he handled it, and the dudes a complete mess now, but the circumstances around his firing are very questionable.
Remember Wrestle Wrestle? I dunno about anyone else, but myself and others really liked it and it was going strong for a while but then he just stopped doing it. He said that once he gave that series its own website that the plan was to have contributors so that the show wouldn't eat up all his time. Fair enough.
But then that's when the cracks started showing. First, he was having a hard time even getting people to do videos for that project. Second, the people he did manage to get, Sean Faust and some other dude, were completely shit all over by the fans. If it wasn't Spoony they hated them. So naturally they became much less willing to make videos and the content dried up because Spoony stopped making videos for the project as well.
Then there is whole "Spoony hates everything" meme that came up. This was spawned because most of his vlog type videos were mostly negative and about shit that he hated and pissed him off. He HATED when people said this and people would say it all the time.
The most tragic thing is that spoony is and for a long time has been quite evidently depressed. And depression is a serious disease. People pulling funding won't just make him get his shit together, not that I'd blame them or that it's any excuse not to do it. It's not something you can just get out of yourself, sometimes it's not something you can get out of at all.
And the saddest part is that despite being depressed, you can't really be excused by it for being an ass, because that would just be absurd. It's a very shades-of-gray situation, and there's not a whole lot of options to get out of it.
[QUOTE=SirJon;52285491]The most tragic thing is that spoony is and for a long time has been quite evidently depressed. And depression is a serious disease. People pulling funding won't just make him get his shit together, not that I'd blame them or that it's any excuse not to do it. It's not something you can just get out of yourself, sometimes it's not something you can get out of at all.
And the saddest part is that despite being depressed, you can't really be excused by it for being an ass, because that would just be absurd. It's a very shades-of-gray situation, and there's not a whole lot of options to get out of it.[/QUOTE]
His medical issues I think are why a lot of people donated on Patreon in the first place. Hell, it might be the reason why some people still do.
[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;52285178]You're giving Spoony too much fuckin leeway.
If he really fucking cared then he'd be making videos, something, ANYTHING! He'd apologize for not delivering on his promises, but he fucking doesn't, he doesn't do ANYTHING! He does nothing but treat his fans poorly and shitpost on Twitter. You think he wen't from 5k to $700 on Patreon JUST because he wasn't delivering on his promises? That's naive, it is also in part because he is a dick to his fans and is addicted to Twitter.
You must know he is NOTORIOUS for taking ANY criticism badly, as if it's a direct attack on him.
I used to be a huge fan of Spoony but his behavior has become mostly indefensible imo.[/QUOTE]
Did you actually read that whole thing? Because I most certainly didn't say he went from 5k to 700 on Patreon just because he wasn't delivering on his promises. That's just a completely incorrect reading.
I'll Assume that you didn't just skim through it and try to elaborate on my position.
What I was saying is that the weight of those promises, being unable to deliver on them while being pressured to do so is one of the main factors that caused him to slowly retract into his shell, so to speak.
I brought up the Twitter addiction. (Blaming adicts for being adicted generally isn't the most constructive path forward, though)
I also brought up why he's a dick to his fans (It's because his fanbase is fucking toxic as hell and he has a hard time focusing on the supportive elements of it when so many people keep telling him how shit he is.)
Yeah he does have a hard time taking criticism. He was always a little hostile towards criticism, but I think saying he could never take any criticism is a massive exaggeration. He's taken criticism to heart before, many times. His ability to take criticism got way worse over the years as he was subjected to more and more negativity.
Thing is, the people who seem like they have the biggest egos and act the most arrogantly are almost always the people who are the most insecure inside. Growing up he was a socially awkward nerd. As an adult he finds out his education was useless. His brother was always far more successful than him, even becoming a cop. His first girlfriend was (supposedly) abusive. He finds out he's mentally ill, which is a huge blow to the ego and at the same time justifies and reinforces your otherness. Finally he finds a profession he enjoys. People love him, he rockets to internet fame, things are starting to look up.
Then everyone starts shitting on him. And I'm talking long before the channel awesome shit here. His fanbase was always known for being toxic. I think while the logical part of him recognized that his fans loved him, he always had that nagging doubt in the back of his head eating away at him. That's one of the ways depression works when things seem good, it makes you doubt that the people who like you are genuine.
Then his girlfriend leaves him, he starts trailing back into depression.
He gets kicked out of Channel Awesome for a frankly bullshit reason and with little warning, in the confusion he ends up lashing out and burning bridges he didn't intend (And seriously, people were vicious here. Another thing the video doesn't go into at all, the shit aimed a him was fucking vile and personal attacks).
He was on the path to recovery. Then Patreon happens. And at first, it was good. He kept making videos, and they were good.
Now, I'll have to admit I never really looked at his Patreon until just now, while typing this up.
But yeah, so, for starters he actually did do all that stuff you'd want from a Patreon. He often updated it, talking about upcoming videos and stuff. One of his first posts there was talking about how he had just bought his first Patreon funded prop for an upcoming Ultima game review. He did fulfill a lot of the Patreon rewards. Those Cards Against Humanity streams? They happened. He also had photos he sent out, that happened. He had audio greetings he made for individual backers, many of those happened. He also had movie commentaries for individual backers, at least some of those happened. He ended up getting behind on these things, and this was something stressing him out. At the same time, he was trying not to affect his actual videos with all this, so that was stressing him out. And then, he was also trying to make a DVD while still doing those Patreon rewards and not affecting his regular videos. And then the fucking movie happened. He himself voiced concern over all this, thinking maybe it was a mistake to promise this much.
He was pretty open about his problems for a while actually. I'm really sad I wasn't looking at his Patreon back then, and that he seems to have abandoned it now. I've spent quite a bit of time looking back at some of the history I missed and honestly I'm just feeling kind of depressed now. I'll just leave a few choice quotes.
[quote]
Noah Antwiler
May 15, 2014 at 6:45am
Uhhhhh, movie...?
Okay, now you guys are starting to scare me.
This level of support is truly amazing. Every time I see the number I'm staggered. I'm starting to wonder if you're going to call my bluff when it comes to this whole movie thing, because, um... I'm not really sure I can pull that off and keep doing the show, you know?
Let me put it this way: I'm stressed out of my mind. I'm trying desperately to find a way to deal with it, because I'm on the verge of burnout. Which is why I'm struggling with the extreme generosity of the Patreon thing. I'm feeling pressure to earn this huge outpouring of support, but I'm pushing myself too hard to do it. At the same time, my video output stinks. I'm not getting enough video content out, and my ad revenue is in the toilet. This is why I'm turning to Patreon in the first place. I kinda need the money, here, especially with the new house. Whatever you may think of me, I really do work my ass off.
I've resolved to being a lot more vigilant in scheduling my work from day to day. (Marking on a calendar what I'll work on each day). I think that alone should help structure me and keep me from being overwhelmed. Often times my approach is so scattershot I get 1% of a thousand things done, but overall, very little is accomplished.
But that leads me back to the movie goal, which... uh, you guys are, wonderfully, in danger of reaching. I mean that with awe and gratitude, and also fear. With my workload, I have two major priorities at the moment: TSE and Counter Monkey. (Yes, I plan to make Counter Monkey a much more regular feature very soon.) But, if I decided to go forward with this movie thing, well, I don't know. That's scary.
I envy guys like Brad Jones who seem to have limitless energy, or at least seem to work much more efficiently. But for me? Something in my schedule has to give. And if something cut out a major portion of my already very limited video content, that'd SLASH things dramatically around here in terms of ad impressions and revenue. That'd hurt.
So it's a chin-scratcher. Maybe the movie goal was a mistake. Maybe not. If I made it a *priority* in my life, I can definitely say it would affect the site and the show noticeably. April's suggested I raise the goal higher, but to me that's just yanking the carrot away. This *isn't* about me scamming you for money; it's about making the show better, and letting you see what you want to see. I may have to adapt the goal, though, because I want the show to continue as it is. There may be an end on the horizon, and maybe some of you can see it coming. And I think that'd be the time to plan for a movie. But I don't want you to feel misled."
"Reading my last post, I realized I made myself sound a lot more disturbed than I'd meant to. It sounds like I'm *complaining* about the support more than being appreciative, which isn't the case at all. More like overwhelmed by it. I really do take the number as an increased responsibility, so the higher it gets, the more I need to deserve it.
I hope that makes sense. You know I love you guys."[/quote]
[QUOTE=SirJon;52285491]The most tragic thing is that spoony is and for a long time has been quite evidently depressed. And depression is a serious disease. People pulling funding won't just make him get his shit together, not that I'd blame them or that it's any excuse not to do it. It's not something you can just get out of yourself, sometimes it's not something you can get out of at all.
And the saddest part is that despite being depressed, you can't really be excused by it for being an ass, because that would just be absurd. It's a very shades-of-gray situation, and there's not a whole lot of options to get out of it.[/QUOTE]
Throwing money at a depressed person stuck in a procrastination cycle is the worst idea
No party is in the right here. Depression doesn't mean you get permission to act like an absolute cock to people. Victimizing everyone for your illness isn't the way to do things at all. It's selfish and sociopathic. You reap what you sow, and Spoony has definitely sowed his seeds.
On the other side of things, the way they handled him and his firing is absolutely uncalled for. Intentionally making someone feel worthless and then having a laugh about it publicly is so goddamned scummy, especially when you do it to someone you KNOW has very real mental issues. Yeah you can say "but he did this and this" until the cows come home, but two wrongs don't make a right, and you will have been no better than him for doing that. He's still a human being.
Spoony needs help. Real, serious help.
No use being sad about it. It's Spoony's who decides how he lives his life. He shouldn't get any money for it, but then again, those backers also made the decision to give it to him.
Let's remember the good times and spend our time watching the many internet reviewers Spoony has inspired.
Also, I never really cared the yelling of "BETRAYAL" was unprofessional. That shit was funny.
[QUOTE=Mysterious;52287519]No party is in the right here. Depression doesn't mean you get permission to act like an absolute cock to people. Victimizing everyone for your illness isn't the way to do things at all. It's selfish and sociopathic. You reap what you sow, and Spoony has definitely sowed his seeds.
On the other side of things, the way they handled him and his firing is absolutely uncalled for. Intentionally making someone feel worthless and then having a laugh about it publicly is so goddamned scummy, especially when you do it to someone you KNOW has very real mental issues. Yeah you can say "but he did this and this" until the cows come home, but two wrongs don't make a right, and you will have been no better than him for doing that. He's still a human being.
Spoony needs help. Real, serious help.[/QUOTE]
I think the thing to note here is, that while the split with TGWTG was a blow to Spoony, he had plenty of room to grow after that and for a while he was going in the right direction.
But after a while he started digging himself deeper and deeper, to the point where he can either wake up, rethink his life and try to salvage what little remains or continue the downward spiral.
In the grand scheme of things, the TGWTG drama is nothing.
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