• Forums Discussion v3 - Post about Tudd and win a 1 month ban
    5,023 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Craptasket;52620969]Times were much simpler back then[/QUOTE] Bans didn't have to be justified as hard as they are now
[QUOTE=Hezzy;52618811]How exactly am I supposed to respond to somebody who exhibits so much hostility?[/QUOTE] I'm a bit late on this but while it's understandable that dealing with open hostility is frustrating maybe you should keep in mind that the way you guys keep handling this stuff doesn't help the situation at all. You mentioned earlier you're all about transparency but from the point of view of a user of the site, that doesn't seem terribly true with the attitude people keep getting from the mods when they bring issues up. The most we get past that is usually just an "it's being handled behind the scenes" which isn't really that transparent because we can't easily see the end result of it. People don't feel like things are being handled reasonably according to what we're shown publicly so they voice those concerns. And tend to be met with dismissal and sarcasm. Usually you guys don't even address the actual point they're even making in any way to begin with, usually focusing on some shitty zinger response instead. And when they don't back down when you guys refuse to address their concerns they either risk a ban, like Tomo, or risk the mods trying to shame them for opposing them such as myself or Raidyr. [QUOTE]On top of all this, I also work close to 50 hours a week and everything I do on Facepunch is out of the kindness of my heart.[/QUOTE] Also no offense but I don't feel like this is an excuse. Working that much is of course going to suck and you'll want to relax on your time off, that's totally reasonable. But if you're not prepared to deal with the other responsibilities you've taken on then maybe you shouldn't have taken on those responsibilities to begin with? In my opinion it's not really a justification for sarcastic and dismissive responses to people. [QUOTE=TomatoGuy;52619204]Agree about some of the rules not being written down 'Rating spam', 'Trolling with ratings', 'Cares about ratings', 'Visitor messager abuse', 'Mod sass' for example are not written down anywhere[/QUOTE] I really don't feel like mod sass should even be a bannable reason to begin with. If people are being too unreasonable towards the mods then they're likely to be breaking the rules anyways. Having mod sass as a bannable reason though is far too easy to abuse and can easily result in people not voicing concerns they have over fears they'll just get banned for it. [QUOTE=DChapsfield;52620166]I regularly delete and rewrite posts in progress to make them more concise or less confusing. I also frequently go back and edit posts to make corrections. It seems to work for me.[/QUOTE] Kinda hard to be concise at times though. Ie: This post I'm making right now because there was something like 170 new posts in the thread when I woke up. (Though this one is still a lot shorter than some of the others I've recently made.)
I don't have a problem with "mod sass" as a ban reason outside of its redundancy. People being awful get banned for being awful. I think people are kind of injecting conspiracy into the "mod sass" reasoning when it's just that. Plus, if you do have a problem with that, you can always appeal if banned. It's not mods vs. everyone else - I've seen mods disagree before. But, in general, I do think people are being hostile and up in arms to a point where having a conversation with them won't be possible without kowtowing to their demands.
The way I'm seeing how things are going on, despite many assurances given by mods and the CM, people aren't interested so much in actual dialogue as they want to see heads roll or some punishment handed out. Maybe tone down the hostility a bit and we might be able to have a more civil conversation about how things are right now, instead of beating the same dead horse. We already got assurances that things are going to change, things will be different, and mods will be held to a better standard, what else do you want? demoddings? people given naughty mod role again? Instead of throwing around accusations and responding to snark with snark, set a good example yourselves.
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;52621136]The way I'm seeing how things are going on, despite many assurances given by mods and the CM, people aren't interested so much in actual dialogue as they want to see heads roll or some punishment handed out. Maybe tone down the hostility a bit and we might be able to have a more civil conversation about how things are right now, instead of beating the same dead horse. We already got assurances that things are going to change, things will be different, and mods will be held to a better standard, what else do you want? demoddings? people given naughty mod role again? Instead of throwing around accusations and responding to snark with snark, set a good example yourselves.[/QUOTE] When a moderator acts out of line it's always the moderators fault. I can only think of a situation where its a user's fault and that's when the user does something on the levels of harassment which as far as I know hasn't even happened.
[QUOTE=DOG-GY;52620933][img]http://i.picpar.com/vU2c.png[/img] [editline]28th August 2017[/editline] found this old gem when Jeggis dug up the original 3d art thread with waybackmachine[/QUOTE] jesus I remember making that [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/6DDRK0y.jpg[/IMG] made this for him too :fp:
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;52621160]When a moderator acts out of line it's always the moderators fault. I can only think of a situation where its a user's fault and that's when the user does something on the levels of harassment which as far as I know hasn't even happened.[/QUOTE] I think it's been reiterated often enough that the mods are aware whose fault it is. Repeating it won't change anything because the wheels are already turning in a positive direction. If you want something to happen overnight it's not going to happen, fundamental changes even for forum rules and mod conduct are going to take a while to be ironed out. I've been around long enough to tell who can be genuinely bad in the mod seat, and all those people who fit that description were demodded or left. Mods make mistakes like everybody else, and if nothing else there's been many positive changes, such as people being unbanned for questionable bans more often instead of being left to shout themselves hoarse in the RC or Discord. Believe me, what's going on right now is nothing near as bad as when Rusty and company ruled the roost in the GMF.
Can we just slow this thread down and acknowledge that change is gonna take a while and most mods aren't living of unemployment and therefore won't have all day to argue over how to improve. It has been shared several times now that Hezzy et al. are working on new guidelines and to improve consistency. So stop going on about this shit and give them some time to actually do stuff.
[QUOTE=SEKCobra;52621184]mods aren't living of unemployment and therefore won't have all day to argue over how to improve.[/QUOTE] Postal should have taken Scratch. for his consideration when he had the chance. A whole year of N.E.E.T status was up for grabs It was either Myself or Reagy [editline]28th August 2017[/editline] Not like I still surf the forums during class bad habbits
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;52621173]I think it's been reiterated often enough that the mods are aware whose fault it is. Repeating it won't change anything because the wheels are already turning in a positive direction. If you want something to happen overnight it's not going to happen, fundamental changes even for forum rules and mod conduct are going to take a while to be ironed out. I've been around long enough to tell who can be genuinely bad in the mod seat, and all those people who fit that description were demodded or left. Mods make mistakes like everybody else, and if nothing else there's been many positive changes, such as people being unbanned for questionable bans more often instead of being left to shout themselves hoarse in the RC or Discord. Believe me, what's going on right now is nothing near as bad as when Rusty and company ruled the roost in the GMF.[/QUOTE] I think many people are this way because they feel nothing has changed. FP has always been a community about punching down and rather making fun of problems instead of solving it; see the hate campaign against tudd for example. No one expects these problems to be solved overnight but given the rich history of FP, saying "we're working on it" doesn't feel genuine.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;52621160]When a moderator acts out of line it's always the moderators fault. I can only think of a situation where its a user's fault and that's when the user does something on the levels of harassment which as far as I know hasn't even happened.[/QUOTE] The problem is, and has always been, overreaction. Some people are right but act in the wrong way. Too many people have the mindset that the moderators are actually their enemies, and not just people with lives and senses of humor and feelings. The way I see it, people will get treated as they're treated, which is why I support bans for "mod sass" and stuff. Plus, the people that are overly up in arms about the moderators are trying to convince everyone else that the moderators are actually awful people and that doesn't help anyone. So, to respond to what you said, the state of the forum is the join responsibility of the staff and the everyday members. Both have to work together and speak in a cooperative way in order for things not to descend into tard chaos. And that means not jumping the gun towards aggressiveness. [editline]28th August 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;52621201]I think many people are this way because they feel nothing has changed. FP has always been a community about punching down and rather making fun of problems instead of solving it; see the hate campaign against tudd for example. No one expects these problems to be solved overnight but given the rich history of FP, saying "we're working on it" doesn't feel genuine.[/QUOTE] Tudd is actually a good example of what I'm trying to say. Sure, it was a bad move, but some people were so painfully missing a sense of humor and were so aggressive about Tudd that they couldn't help but get themselves bad. They literally thought they were fighting some sort of injustice instead of accepting that a Pepe-collecting memelord was made moderator as a joke. They were literally unable to talk to the other staff members rationally. Tudd being made moderator partially an idiot cull.
[QUOTE=-nesto-;52621171]jesus I remember making that [IMG_thumb]http://i.imgur.com/6DDRK0y.jpg[/IMG_thumb] made this for him too :fp:[/QUOTE] i might have to reappropriate one of these now that the nazis are back in fashion [editline]bantudd[/editline] perfect
[QUOTE=wauterboi;52621212]The problem is, and has always been, overreaction. Some people are right but act in the wrong way. Too many people have the mindset that the moderators are actually their enemies, and not just people with lives and senses of humor and feelings. The way I see it, people will get treated as they're treated, which is why I support bans for "mod sass" and stuff. Plus, the people that are overly up in arms about the moderators are trying to convince everyone else that the moderators are actually awful people and that doesn't help anyone. So, to respond to what you said, the state of the forum is the join responsibility of the staff and the everyday members. Both have to work together and speak in a cooperative way in order for things not to descend into tard chaos. And that means not jumping the gun towards aggressiveness.[/quote] The forum is the responsibility of everyone, but what is said and done by each person is their own responsibility, with some exceptions. [editline]28th August 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=wauterboi;52621212]Tudd is actually a good example of what I'm trying to say. Sure, it was a bad move, but some people were so painfully missing a sense of humor and were so aggressive about Tudd that they couldn't help but get themselves bad. They literally thought they were fighting some sort of injustice instead of accepting that a Pepe-collecting memelord was made moderator as a joke. They were literally unable to talk to the other staff members rationally. Tudd being made moderator partially an idiot cull.[/QUOTE] I personally was fine with that whole april fools thing, worst I thought was "Oh christ Tudd must feel like shit" but he didn't seem to care that much and had a lot of fun. However I don't think that went towards solving the actual problem if that was the goal, people still give Tudd shit and now a lot more people are bitter.
Are the forms loading like shit for anybody else? Started slowing down on my PC last night and now it doesn't want to work very well on my phone with wifi or data.
[QUOTE=highvoltage;52621457]Are the forms loading like shit for anybody else? Started slowing down on my PC last night and now it doesn't want to work very well on my phone with wifi or data.[/QUOTE] When are they not loading like shit lets be honest here.
[QUOTE=Alice3173;52620999]I'm a bit late on this but while it's understandable that dealing with open hostility is frustrating maybe you should keep in mind that the way you guys keep handling this stuff doesn't help the situation at all. You mentioned earlier you're all about transparency but from the point of view of a user of the site, that doesn't seem terribly true with the attitude people keep getting from the mods when they bring issues up. The most we get past that is usually just an "it's being handled behind the scenes" which isn't really that transparent because we can't easily see the end result of it. People don't feel like things are being handled reasonably according to what we're shown publicly so they voice those concerns. And tend to be met with dismissal and sarcasm. Usually you guys don't even address the actual point they're even making in any way to begin with, usually focusing on some shitty zinger response instead. And when they don't back down when you guys refuse to address their concerns they either risk a ban, like Tomo, or risk the mods trying to shame them for opposing them such as myself or Raidyr. Also no offense but I don't feel like this is an excuse. Working that much is of course going to suck and you'll want to relax on your time off, that's totally reasonable. But if you're not prepared to deal with the other responsibilities you've taken on then maybe you shouldn't have taken on those responsibilities to begin with? In my opinion it's not really a justification for sarcastic and dismissive responses to people. I really don't feel like mod sass should even be a bannable reason to begin with. If people are being too unreasonable towards the mods then they're likely to be breaking the rules anyways. Having mod sass as a bannable reason though is far too easy to abuse and can easily result in people not voicing concerns they have over fears they'll just get banned for it. Kinda hard to be concise at times though. Ie: This post I'm making right now because there was something like 170 new posts in the thread when I woke up. (Though this one is still a lot shorter than some of the others I've recently made.)[/QUOTE] I agree with you in that some of the responses have been sarcastic and dismissive. There's no excuse for that and I apologise. We'll do better. We discuss a lot on the moderator chat and I will consider releasing chat logs in future when we discuss important things, if they are requested. I didn't intend my explanation of how much time I spent working as an excuse, but rather an insight into why things take so long. My availability is limited, so is the availability of most of the other moderators who work as well. We're a team of volunteers and as such I am trying to manage people's expectations accordingly [editline]28th August 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Teddybeer;52621527]At times (well pretty regularly now) the frontpage just doesn't update for like 30 minutes.[/QUOTE] Try doing a cache refresh (CTRL + F5)
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;52621326] I personally was fine with that whole april fools thing, worst I thought was "Oh christ Tudd must feel like shit" but he didn't seem to care that much and had a lot of fun. However I don't think that went towards solving the actual problem if that was the goal, people still give Tudd shit and now a lot more people are bitter.[/QUOTE] Why would I feel like shit? I was made god for a day! It was Bruce Almighty without any of the negative consequences. :v:
[QUOTE=Hezzy;52621562]We discuss a lot on the moderator chat and I will consider releasing chat logs in future when we discuss important things, if they are requested.[/QUOTE] Fair enough. That may be the best option. Between that and getting more serious responses to our concerns it'd probably solve most peoples' problems. [QUOTE]I didn't intend my explanation of how much time I spent working as an excuse, but rather an insight into why things take so long. My availability is limited, so is the availability of most of the other moderators who work as well. We're a team of volunteers and as such I am trying to manage people's expectations accordingly[/QUOTE] Ah, I got you. My fault for misinterpreting that then.
I think it should start now the most serious responses you want from a mod should be through PMs, and if you don't feel it was taken seriously, or got something unacceptable back take it to hezzy and/or bring it up here with screenshot'd pm. [editline]28th August 2017[/editline] I fool around a lot but I don't think fooling around in a serious pm is any fun or good - so you should always get a straight answer from me.
Thanks dog mod
is this community fund stuff coming before newpunch or is it like a package deal?
Coming before, probably.
I think we should change the Windows XP OS icon, I am pretty sure that icon is for Windows 98 and 95.
[QUOTE=NostalgicBird;52622980]I think we should change the Windows XP OS icon, I am pretty sure that icon is for Windows 98 and 95.[/QUOTE]It's there to make Pentium mad. Keep it.
[QUOTE=AtomicSans;52623050]It's there to make Pentium mad. Keep it.[/QUOTE] change it for everyone except Pentium
[QUOTE=NostalgicBird;52623054]change it for everyone except Pentium[/QUOTE] Change it for everyone still, pentium is the only one on xp anyways
Change it to the FreeBSD logo
Change it to a mechanical keyboard switch. [IMG]http://www.daskeyboard.com/blog/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/CherryMXRed.gif[/IMG]
Change it to a snowflake
[QUOTE=postal;52623202]Change it to a snowflake[/QUOTE] Quick snowflake I drew [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/Xm7XvWI.png[/IMG]
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