Forum Discussion v6 - Newpunch Migration Underway

[Borealis]

[QUOTE=NightmareX91;53058070]garry added custom css as a feature so he [I]wouldn't[/I] need to do something like that just to please us[/QUOTE]

I see, just don't want like 25% of people leaving because the site looks different.

[Reds]

[QUOTE=TheBorealis;53058061]I mean officially implement a theme for the site that looks like this one.[/QUOTE]

Garry would be very upset if the adoption rate for a feature like that ended up being like 80% so he's not taking any chances.

[editline]17th January 2018[/editline]

Using the custom CSS takes about ten seconds of opening the custom thread on the main page, copying a few lines, and then pasting it into the custom CSS box in your user settings, so it's a pretty minimal amount of effort.

[Scratch]

[QUOTE=Reds;53058079]Garry would be very upset if the adoption rate for a feature like that ended up being like 80% so he's not taking any chances.

[editline]17th January 2018[/editline]

Using the custom CSS takes about ten seconds of opening the custom thread on the main page, copying a few lines, and then pasting it into the custom CSS box in your user settings, so it's a pretty minimal amount of effort.[/QUOTE]

You just need to know it exists (reading help)

[Hezzy]

[QUOTE=Killuah;53056794][url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1591225[/url]

Does this mean that invasion threads are fine again? Or is it a special case because it's Hezzy and an FP game?[/QUOTE]

It's a Let's Play thread for a Facepunch game...

[QUOTE=WitheredGryphon;53057293]With Mod TNA created and we’re no longer allowed to discuss users [i]or[/i] policy then I don’t really see the point of this thread.

The original thread was created to encompass all of those things and now they’ve all been forcibly removed from this thread with the implication of being banned.

IOW why was this thread created again? It has no purpose other than the very occasional post about NewPunch, so I’m just failing to see the point of reviving this shell of a thread. Moreover I’m curious on what the actual intent of this thread is from the mods’ POV if all of this discussion has been effectively outlawed.[/QUOTE]

Funnily enough the previous version of the thread had the exact same rules and that proved to be popular. I don't know why you're all only just noticing the rules now.

[QUOTE=fruxodaily;53057315]Hezzy I think you're a great dude trying to keep all the chickens in check on this forum but banning moderation complaints or policy inquiries (i mean maybe your not banning that but it seems like it) is tbh kinda shit

I get that like witch hunts happen from time to time, whether it be reagy or kiwi or crap or even you but you gotta deal with that shit. Managing communities means your gonna get shit on every once and a while and loading it to the DM's in my opinion isn't appropriate esp for public record

i mean this thread is to discuss the forums and the forums revolve around policy and mods, you can't have a thread about making a cake if you've banned talking about the ingredients.

Also to nook's thing, I manage a gaming community as well and unless one of my admins has gone out of their way to target an individual person which would require a private complaint, I don't see the harm in having an open discussion about a moderator/admin. It causes two things to happen:

- Behavioural changes
- A set of expectations by the community

If the admin/mod has their head shoved so far up their arse that all they can smell is shit then I got no use for 'em[/QUOTE]

Simplest explanation is that it causes a huge shit show. If people want to make a complaint they're free to send me a PM. All that happens in this thread is a one sided witch hunt where all kind of unsubstantiated slanderous nonsense is thrown about, which benefits nobody.

[butre]

the previous version has had people bitching about the policy for months idk how that qualifies as "just now"

if you don't want a one sided witch hunt maybe you should consider replies that arent pr-speak for "all complaints will be appropriately filed into the trash" ie:
[QUOTE=Hezzy;53056761]We will take on board views of the community but ultimately the final decision rests with us.[/QUOTE]

I do agree that discussion of users should be left to pm but not allowing discussion of moderation and policy is just daft

[Zethin]

[QUOTE=Hezzy;53058326]Funnily enough the previous version of the thread had the exact same rules and that proved to be popular. I don't know why you're all only just noticing the rules now.[/QUOTE]

1. I'm not a hivemind. I very rarely posted in the previous thread over the course of its life. Mostly because a lot of discussion was banned. In fact I think I only really took part in a few conversations over the course of V5's lifetime, only during the time with which mods appeared to be OK with that type of discussion.

2. By actively silencing people's complaints you're preventing positive changes to the forums such as the reason that you yourself closed V4. I can with [I]absolute[/I] certainty guarantee that you would not have demodded Reagy et. al. if people didn't take to the Forum Discussion thread over it. Dissent would have been "looked at" and subsequently ignored.

3. It's not a "witch hunt" and by calling it that you're completely dismissing the validity of people's complaints here. People are voicing concerns about the forums which has long been a facet of this thread in its previous versions up until you for some reason decided you didn't like it anymore. In fact in V1's OP you directly encouraged this specific type of discussion.

4. Your community's complaints aren't benefiting anyone because you aren't allowing them to be responded to. There's been an active effort of sweeping issues under the rug with the premise of "it's being looked at" which completely goes against the transparency that I thought the mod team was trying to achieve with the community. By all accounts even though Pascall has told us issues are being reviewed it seems that you're purposefully hindering that process by disallowing discussion and hoping it fades into obscurity. There's been almost no sign of an effort to either reform rules or handle complaints other than "it's being looked into."

5. I can't begin to imagine how difficult it is trying to be a CM for a community of dozens of thousands of people. However, sometimes you've gotta learn to say "I'm wrong, here's what we're going to do from here on out." It's been made clear I don't know how many times now that the community does not like the direction you're pushing this thread or handling this situation, and I feel that it's your job as the CM to live up to that expectation your community has for you.

[Zillamaster55]

What defines a callout? I understand like “Man answer this Chud!” or something, but what about stuff like “I’ll wait to see what X says about this” or “Surprised X didn’t post this”? Are those call outs or is there a sliding scale. Wanting to make sure so I’m not bent

[Zillamaster55]

[QUOTE=The Genie;53058532]Not really an answer to your question but it seems kind of pointless to name drop a user [i]negatively[/i] if they're not an active participant in the conversation.[/QUOTE]

Was wondering if it was case by case considering we have an emote dedicated to calling on a user :v:

[K0mori]

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;53058625]Was wondering if it was case by case considering we have an emote dedicated to calling on a user :v:[/QUOTE]

Calling on and calling out are two different concepts, which is what The Genie was trying to distinguish when they said "negatively."

[OvB]

Calling someone out is confrontational. You're basically instigating an argument by injecting that person into the thread. "I wonder how OvB is going to defend this!" is different than "I look forward to OvB's response because idk shit about this." Which is basically what the :johnnymo1: emote is for because his physics knowledge and well-respected opinion.

Basically ask yourself, does your name calling have the potential to start shit in the thread? Does it mock/instigate the person you're naming? If so, you probably shouldn't do it.

[redBadger]

Last I checked this was a thread about the forums not about drama surrounding one's inability to utilize a feature called the ignore button. If you don't know how to use it I just so happen to know a thread where you can discuss or ask questions about the forums and maybe get an answer to where the illusive ignore button is.

I fail to see any issues

[Mort Stroodle]

[QUOTE=redBadger;53058710]Last I checked this was a thread about the forums not about drama surrounding one's inability to utilize a feature called the ignore button. If you don't know how to use it I just so happen to know a thread where you can discuss or ask questions about the forums and maybe get an answer to where the illusive ignore button is.

I fail to see any issues[/QUOTE]

Not being able to bring up complaints about Tudd is one thing, not being able to bring up complaints about forum policy is another.

[Pyth]

[QUOTE=redBadger;53058710]Last I checked this was a thread about the forums not about drama surrounding one's inability to utilize a feature called the ignore button. If you don't know how to use it I just so happen to know a thread where you can discuss or ask questions about the forums and maybe get an answer to where the illusive ignore button is.

I fail to see any issues[/QUOTE]

your aggression is a bit unnecessary

[.Ducky]

I don't feel like PMing the mods about moderation and forum policy is a good substitute for community-wide discussion on those issues at all. Keeping it here fosters an open discourse and encourages the flow of ideas. Keeping it private isn't going to be nearly as productive in making this a better forum, and perhaps more importantly, I think it's going to inhibit the progress this thread has made in building a strong connection between top brass and the rest of the community.

[TheSyntaX]

How the fuck do you embed tweet in a post?

[OvB]

[QUOTE=arleitiss;53058847]How the fuck do you embed tweet in a post?[/QUOTE]

media tags

[Venomousbeetle]

Is increasing avatar size retroactive to here? What's with all the jumbo avatars on normal oldpunch accounts

[Venomousbeetle]

We can set titles?

[Col. Buggernuts]

[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;53058880]We can set titles?[/QUOTE]Through the community fund, yes.

[Slapdown3]

[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;53058880]We can set titles?[/QUOTE]

check it out

[url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1580545[/url]

also CSS technowizardry that lets you put images and links and stuff in your title, mine does a font change, has a teeny gif repeated and links you to whatever it's a mystery.

[Killuah]

[QUOTE=garry;53057754]Doesn't sound like me tbh[/QUOTE]

Great now my inner spazz has to look for that post

should be around [url=https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/The_Great_Habbo_Raid_of_July_2007]2006 or 2007, 10 fucking years ago[/url]

[editline]17th January 2018[/editline]

Ho boy

[quote]Welcome to the forums! Don't be afraid! We're a bit harsh on people using AOL talk on the forums. We want people to type real sentences and to take the time to speel things right.

Bans aren't meant to be permanent, they're meant to be a huge warning to stop whatever you were doing. As punishment you lose your old account and have to re-register (if you want).[/quote]

[editline]17th January 2018[/editline]

Here is some indirect proof that we once banned for raiding(has nothing to do with Hezzy's thread anymore I'm just digging through nostalgia now)

[url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=969180[/url]

[editline]17th January 2018[/editline]

Haha holy fucking shit

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Habbo/Archive_2[/url]

[quote]Actually, it was not 4chan that started the raids. The credit should go to Hezzy of the OIFY (Facepunch studios) which started raids before 4chan. Several pool blocking raids occured before someone posted the idea on 4chan. Habbo raid rooms were set up, and if there was some way to check the records this would prove this. 4chan took ovber the raids and made it a success, but all in all OIFY started it. And it was damn fun whilst it lasted. --80.42.94.192 20:09, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
They're still going on occasionally, though 87.202.26.254 21:23, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
Wait, it was HEZZY that started this?? I have lost all respect for those retards. Shady Tree Man 04:13, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
I believe Hezzy started some raids, but 4chan started the raids. --Dch111 21:18, 10 January 2007 (UTC)[/quote]

[kariko]

[QUOTE=WitheredGryphon;53058491]1. I'm not a hivemind. I very rarely posted in the previous thread over the course of its life. Mostly because a lot of discussion was banned. In fact I think I only really took part in a few conversations over the course of V5's lifetime, only during the time with which mods appeared to be OK with that type of discussion.

2. By actively silencing people's complaints you're preventing positive changes to the forums such as the reason that you yourself closed V4. I can with [I]absolute[/I] certainty guarantee that you would not have demodded Reagy et. al. if people didn't take to the Forum Discussion thread over it. Dissent would have been "looked at" and subsequently ignored.

3. It's not a "witch hunt" and by calling it that you're completely dismissing the validity of people's complaints here. People are voicing concerns about the forums which has long been a facet of this thread in its previous versions up until you for some reason decided you didn't like it anymore. In fact in V1's OP you directly encouraged this specific type of discussion.

4. Your community's complaints aren't benefiting anyone because you aren't allowing them to be responded to. There's been an active effort of sweeping issues under the rug with the premise of "it's being looked at" which completely goes against the transparency that I thought the mod team was trying to achieve with the community. By all accounts even though Pascall has told us issues are being reviewed it seems that you're purposefully hindering that process by disallowing discussion and hoping it fades into obscurity. There's been almost no sign of an effort to either reform rules or handle complaints other than "it's being looked into."

5. I can't begin to imagine how difficult it is trying to be a CM for a community of dozens of thousands of people. However, sometimes you've gotta learn to say "I'm wrong, here's what we're going to do from here on out." It's been made clear I don't know how many times now that the community does not like the direction you're pushing this thread or handling this situation, and I feel that it's your job as the CM to live up to that expectation your community has for you.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Duck M.;53058740]I don't feel like PMing the mods about moderation and forum policy is a good substitute for community-wide discussion on those issues at all. Keeping it here fosters an open discourse and encourages the flow of ideas. Keeping it private isn't going to be nearly as productive in making this a better forum, and perhaps more importantly, I think it's going to inhibit the progress this thread has made in building a strong connection between top brass and the rest of the community.[/QUOTE]

I'm pretty disheartened by posts like these because they're going to be completely ignored. Honestly I had stopped reading this thread long ago because it was the same thing over and over. Sometimes people's problems were addressed but a whole lot of the time it was "we're looking into it" and then nothing would come out of it. Posts with massive approval were just mocked long ago, and then after the community complained about mocking they're just ignored, or honestly right now they get replies with a negative attitude that I remember the mod team apologizing for and promising not to do again just months ago. And yeah, sometimes popular things aren't always right but you should at least be taking input from the community who are a big part of the whole deal.

But now I'm reading that any discussion about it in any way is bannable? I don't even understand the point of forum discussion if we can't talk about moderation and policies that are pretty clearly about the forum. The increase in avoiding discussion or just ignoring/"taking input" on what people say, and all this added stuff about this or that being bannable has just driven me to stop wanting to discuss the forum in any way at all.

I guess to end this long post I wanted to ask some questions about the PMing because it's another negative that I think nobody has brought up yet, though Duck M touched on it. How would we as the community receive feedback through PMs? Like for example if a large chunk of people PM complaining about the same thing but the mod team decides they aren't going to do anything about it, how will that be communicated? Or the reverse, if the mod team decides to change a thing then how will people know it is being looked into and happening? How would it not be abused to just keep users quiet about some topics? Or abused to avoid feedback in general by keeping it private?

My main problem is that it's so much easier to ignore feedback if it's not public and that is really starting to sound worrying to me. And I know, being "worried" sounds super serious when it's just a forum but it's still important since we all keep coming back to it, so I feel like there's nothing wrong with talking seriously at times.

[Scratch]

[QUOTE=Killuah;53058920]Great now my inner spazz has to look for that post

should be around [url=https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/The_Great_Habbo_Raid_of_July_2007]2006 or 2007, 10 fucking years ago[/url]

[editline]17th January 2018[/editline]

Ho boy

[editline]17th January 2018[/editline]

Here is some indirect proof that we once banned for raiding(has nothing to do with Hezzy's thread anymore I'm just digging through nostalgia now)

[url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=969180[/url]

[editline]17th January 2018[/editline]

Haha holy fucking shit

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Habbo/Archive_2[/url][/QUOTE]

Were these old OIFY threads lost to the purge, or do they remain hidden in newpunch

[Killuah]

[QUOTE=Scratch.;53059200]Were these old OIFY threads lost to the purge, or do they remain hidden in newpunch[/QUOTE]

Can't find anything from 06/07

Internet Archive has it under the old forums.face... URL but not the threads, only the frontpage.

[Decaf Cobra]

I like that there is this mentality here but community crowdfunded bans is an upcoming feature of the new forum.

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/TTa12tN.png[/IMG]

Kind of mixed signals, imo.

[dai]

RE raiding rule of thumb, deviant art appreciation station is probably a solid old example since it walks the line (really sloppily at times)- there's a difference between having a laugh among ourselves, and having 10 idiots from the thread go to an artist's profile on DA to say useless mean shit to their face. (I do recall plenty of times people went to offer [I]constructive [/I]criticism a lot, but it's still inadvisable unless you really know what you're doing)

Worse yet was the occasional dip who'd go whisper an artist to say "hey these guys are being mean about your art [link]", because whether or not they thought they were doing something good, that idiot just turned a thread of people snickering to themselves without context or constructive commentary into a thousand man raid against some 12 year old's budding interests and beginner art attempts. (or sometimes a stubborn idiot who has it coming but then tells his follower base to raid us, then our mods have to waste time playing whack-a-mole with a bunch of idiots who still think internet randumb humor is in vogue)

tl;dr it's more just a branch of the "don't be a dick" rules with "don't drag mud in the house" as a reason

[Judas]

I miss having an extremely obnoxious title but I just know the day I suck it up and pay 15 bucks to get a new one, oldpunch will die forever and we'll all be forced over to newpunch

[Venomousbeetle]

[QUOTE=Dr McNinja;53059462]I like that there is this mentality here but community crowdfunded bans is an upcoming feature of the new forum.

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/TTa12tN.png[/IMG]

Kind of mixed signals, imo.[/QUOTE]

Yeah what the hell is this

[dai]

[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;53059471]Yeah what the hell is this[/QUOTE]

given it's only a nomination and not a 'raise X to ban!' system, it feels more like a money sink for people to make a statement. They can repeatedly nominate their favorite poster instead of building up tension and resentment over mods not seeing the same problems they do

Reports should continue to work fine otherwise

[Pascall]

[QUOTE=Dr McNinja;53059462]I like that there is this mentality here but community crowdfunded bans is an upcoming feature of the new forum.

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/TTa12tN.png[/IMG]

Kind of mixed signals, imo.[/QUOTE]

Garry doesn't run stuff by us for Newpunch like about 98% of the time and we're not sure whether or not he intends to keep that.

So it's kind of a wait and see deal as far as how we would deal with that. I'm not sure myself.