It is a theory with a lot of support, but it is not without holes:
*Humans are one of the few mammals that do not instinctively know how to swim. Throw any other dry animal (within physical reason) with no experience swimming into a lake, and it will paddle right back to shore no problem. If you throw a human in who has not learned to swim, however, and they will probably drown.
*The uniquely human features such as the large, flat segmented feet and the sensitivity to pressure differentials (our upright evolution required a particularly powerful heart that needs to work far more than other primates') actually become a liability in the water.
Whales and dolphins also have developed particularly sensitive sensory organs. They can see, hear, and smell far more acutely than humans can, and we can largely chalk this up to our enormous cranial cavity, crowding out the sensory organs for oxygen and energy.
Hairless upbringing can be attributed to a number of stimuli, such as parasites. Hair makes these a bigger problem, and the layer of fat can be inversely attributed to the lack of hair. No doubt it helped our ancestors through the last ice age, as did their cranial capacity and hunting ability.
[QUOTE=Wakka V2;16447361]
Now I'm not one to believe in Darwin's Theory[/QUOTE]
:allears:
This is still Darwinian Evolution.
Evolution is method of change, not a specific change itself.
Mammals did not evolve from fish then walk out of the water.
Mammals evolved from some mammal like reptiles called synapsids(I think that's what they were called). If you look at one of the flippers from an ancestor of whales called a zoologon (no idea how it's spelled) you'd see that the bones resemble those of a hand. Mammals didn't begin in water, they began on land then moved into the water
[editline]11:18PM[/editline]
And if it matters, bats also use sonar
[QUOTE=Detective P;16447566]You're right. Actually, Darwin only thought up natural selection, not evolution. So it's still evolution by natural selection. Darwin has nothing to do with this theory.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry... what was [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Origin_of_Species]Origin of Species[/url] about again?
Goddammit, you people are so predictable. So much for having a rational and reasonable conversation on the internet. No, that's just not the place for such things!
[QUOTE=Cathbadh;16451079]Goddammit, you people are so predictable. So much for having a rational and reasonable conversation on the internet. No, that's just not the place for such things![/QUOTE]
There wasn't any flaming... there was minimal stupidity... and the theory was debated a bit, and ultimately thought to be improbable but not impossible. What do you want exactly?
[QUOTE=doomkiwi;16451110]There wasn't any flaming... there was minimal stupidity... and the theory was debated a bit, and ultimately thought to be improbable but not impossible. What do you want exactly?[/QUOTE]
I want a discussion on the possibility of human evolution from aquatic apes. Not a debate on evolution. It's like we can't even get past the concept as a whole.
[QUOTE=Cathbadh;16451079]Goddammit, you people are so predictable. So much for having a rational and reasonable conversation on the internet. No, that's just not the place for such things![/QUOTE]
As soon as someone dismisses accepted science without giving a reason why, rationality goes down the toilet.
Well, sea monkeys are cute.
Ok, I expected to come into this thread and find a lot of bullshit, but you kept it nice and tried to support "your" theory with facts. That's already rarity on such a topic.
Nonetheless, I think this theory is false. For one, elephants may have originated from waterborn mammals, but if you look at the mammut, it developed a thick fur again. That means that the mammut adapted to it's situation.
Humans had a similar way. We used to have fur (well, our ancestors, not homo sapiens sapiens) and it still shows sometimes today. Hypertrichosis is an illness where the person has hair growning at untypical places, sometimes even on the whole body
[img]http://pix.sueddeutsche.de/wissen/791/300789/image_fmbg_0_1.jpg[/img]
This means that the genetical information to a full fur is still in our DNA and can be taken as an evidence that we once developed a fur. Today it's not needed anymore and, as life always seeks ways to minimize it's effort, we dropped it.
[QUOTE=Wakka V2;16447361][img]http://www.willisms.com/archives/orangutan.gif[/img]
Now I'm not one to believe in Darwin's Theory, but I did find this hypothesis intrieging. To me, it makes more sense than Darwin's Theory. (I have taken college level biology and I intend to make it my major)
The hypothesis goes like so: our ape ancestors adapted to an aquatic enviornment, then to dry land.
Here are some points:
* Most aquatic mamals have lost their body hair (whales, seals, dophins, etc.).
* All land mamals who where once aquatic mamals are naked (elephants, rhinos, homosapiens, etc.).
* Humans have a layer of fat underneath their skin, primates do not. Fat began layering under skin once ancestors became aquatic.
* Whenever apes walk through water, they do so with only two feet.
* The only mamals who have developed some sort of language are aquatic mamals (dolphins, whales).
There is a wonderful presentation of this on TED by Elaine Morgan.
[url]http://www.ted.com/talks/elaine_morgan_says_we_evolved_from_aquatic_apes.html[/url][/QUOTE]
My friend would be interested in this kind of thing but he would stop reading after the misspelling of words.
That loses all your credibility with him.
Also there is no fossil evidence to support this.
The evidence to sea vertebrates > lizards > mammals > Humans is staggeringly abundant.
[QUOTE=!LORD M!;16447694]You have taken college level biology and you intend to make it your major, and you cannot even spell Darwins name correctly? I am sorry, but if you have taken biology at college level then you should know how to spell his name since he is the Big guy when it comes to biology. And what kind of college did you study in? I find it intriguing since you seem not to believ in Darwins evolution theory and it might be connected to the teachings on your college, I don't know.
And no, I do not believ that our ape ancestors adapted to an aquatic enviornment, then to dry land. This because in the points you showed:
Here are some points:
* Most aquatic mamals have lost their body hair (whales, seals, dophins, etc.).
[b]Uhm, seals do have body hair, whales (dolphins included lol) had ancestors that had bodyhair, and they lost it while going aquatic because it was an unnecessary trait since it took energy to grow and slowed down the movement in the water.[/b]
* All land mamals who where once aquatic mamals are naked (elephants, rhinos, homosapiens, etc.).
[b]This is flawed, you automaticly assume that they come from the water just like that and that's your point? Elephants and rhinos don't have bodyhair because they evolved in Africa, a hot place, and snce they're so big, bodyhair would mean extra unnecessary heat. If you look at the wolly rhino or mamuth then what? Humans don't have bodyhair because we went from the cool shaded forests out on the savannah where body hair was unnecessary (extra heat). [/b]
* Humans have a layer of fat underneath their skin, primates do not. Fat began layering under skin once ancestors became aquatic.
[b]Fat can be used as both reserves of energy and as isolation to the cold night. Notice how the bears have a huge fatlayer and aren't aquatic? Many mamals have fatlayers. Maybe this is a trait that evolved when we went out on the savannah to protect us from the cold nights?[/b]
* Whenever apes walk through water, they do so with only two feet.
[b]Apes can walk on two legs on land aswell, they just usually use arms aswell to support them. In water they aren't as affected by gravity as on land, because water is a visquos fluid and can support them a bit. ANd maybe they don't think it's so nice to get their hands wet.[/b]
* The only mamals who have developed some sort of language are aquatic mamals (dolphins, whales).
[b]Whales (dolphins included lol) use sonar, which can travel far in water, this evolved forth because whales live in a large medium (the sea) and sonar is a great way to tell others where you are so you can easier find eachother. Whales are intelligent and that's probably why they got this "language". But what is really a language? Monkeys and rodents and other mamals have different distinct sounds they use at certain situations, is this language or is it just squeeks? I beleiv that the more intelligent an animal get the more complex the "language" get.[/b][/QUOTE]
Is "Believ and Mamals" The proper way to spell those words where you live?
[QUOTE=VernanDursley;16452277]Is "Believ and Mamals" The proper way to spell those words where you live?[/QUOTE]
Yes.
Don't you know what a typo is? Or are you too pedantic and delight yourself in the fact that pointing out the mistakes of others makes you big.
[QUOTE=Wakka V2;16447361][img]http://www.willisms.com/archives/orangutan.gif[/img]
[/QUOTE]
Hahaha what a cool Orangutan.
[QUOTE=Topato;16453066]Yes.
Don't you know what a typo is? Or are you too pedantic and delight yourself in the fact that pointing out the mistakes of others makes you big.[/QUOTE]
He used sarcasm to make himself feel powerful.
powerful like Raaagh.
like a dinosaur
raaaagh.
How is this not Darwinian evolution?
[QUOTE=Topato;16453066]Yes.
Don't you know what a typo is? Or are you too pedantic and delight yourself in the fact that pointing out the mistakes of others makes you big.[/QUOTE]
Well if it wasn't typed wrong every fucking time then I would have let it slide. I assume they thought that was the way you spelled the words.
Ahaha that monkey has a shirt.
[QUOTE=Wakka V2;16447400]Fossil evidence isn't that strong of evidence.[/QUOTE]
Can't take your posts seriously after this, especially considering you're majoring in biology
Oh, lord. There are so many things wrong with this theory.
[QUOTE=Wakka V2;16447361][img]http://www.willisms.com/archives/orangutan.gif[/img]
Now I'm not one to believe in Darwin's Theory, but I did find this hypothesis intrieging. To me, it makes more sense than Darwin's Theory. (I have taken college level biology and I intend to make it my major)
The hypothesis goes like so: our ape ancestors adapted to an aquatic enviornment, then to dry land.
Here are some points:
* Most aquatic mamals have lost their body hair (whales, seals, dophins, etc.).
* All land mamals who where once aquatic mamals are naked (elephants, rhinos, homosapiens, etc.).
* Humans have a layer of fat underneath their skin, primates do not. Fat began layering under skin once ancestors became aquatic.
* Whenever apes walk through water, they do so with only two feet.
* The only mamals who have developed some sort of language are aquatic mamals (dolphins, whales).
There is a wonderful presentation of this on TED by Elaine Morgan.
[url]http://www.ted.com/talks/elaine_morgan_says_we_evolved_from_aquatic_apes.html[/url][/QUOTE]
No. You have the pillow fucker guy as an avatar, which already means your opinion is invalid
[QUOTE=erazor;16454907]Oh, lord. There are so man things wrong with this theory.[/QUOTE]
Such as?
[QUOTE=RichardNixon;16455010]Such as?[/QUOTE]
You are a descendant of an underwater monkey
[QUOTE=VernanDursley;16452277]Is "Believ and Mamals" The proper way to spell those words where you live?[/QUOTE]
Excuse me sooooo much for not having ENGLISH as my native language. If you don't have anything meaningfull to say then trying to mention typos in a taunting way, then stay out of the conversation because it might be over your head.
[QUOTE=Wakka V2;16447457]DNA evidence only suggests that apes are closely related to us. Fossil evidence is completely interpreted (ie facts are made up of what appears to be so).[/QUOTE]
You sure you study biology and not something else?
We were made by God.
[editline]09:29AM[/editline]
:biggrin:
I'll just prop this down here. :smugdog:
[img]http://www.trendyink.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/westboro_baptist_church-drones.jpg[/img]
:sigh: There goes another chance to a good and civilised conversation.
[QUOTE=It.;16455183]We were made by God.
[editline]09:29AM[/editline]
:biggrin:[/QUOTE]
This man's onto something!:aaaaa:
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