Sequelitis - ZELDA: A Link to the Past vs. Ocarina of Time
432 replies, posted
[QUOTE=NotAName;45266358]I wonder if he played La Mulana. It's pretty much everything he wants in a Zelda game (well, except that it's a sidescroller).[/QUOTE]
Okami is the greatest Zelda game, no questions. Get out. Take your stuff, never come back.
[QUOTE=TheHydra;45266451]wow you can really tell some of this was written during jon era grumps[/QUOTE]
Game Grumps has really put on the spotlight on how much of a douche Arin actually is.
It doesn't help that he used Game Grumps to insert himself into the work of others. I'm convinced the only reason Danny Sexbang is even on Grumps is because it gave Arin the opportunity to shoehorn his horrible rap in.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;45266408]Arin Hanson is a condescending douchebag who's persuaded a game is only good if it doesn't teach you anything about how it plays and you only learn through glorified trial and error. He's been known to spit all over games with tutorials and text messages telling you what to do because they're an "insult to his intelligence", even though he proved many times he has no fucking clue how to actually learn the ins and outs of a game when it's not handfeeding him all the information.
Long story short, Arin's opinions on games can always be disregarded on the grounds that he's a fucking idiot.[/QUOTE]
His big thing about how Mega Man X teaches you the mechanics via intuition in the first sequelitis was pretty cool, but he took that as "games shouldn't have tutorials" instead of "games that are intuitive are good". I think he's too unwilling to accept that games need to have tutorials in general to be accessible to people, be they as intuitive as the mega man intro stage or in press-button-to-do-thing form.
Although I don't agree with everything, he does make a few good points. In the end Arin isn't the kind of gamer that cares much about story and cutscenes if they're even a little bit in the way of the game's pacing.
This.. was a really bad video. Hate to say. I'm not sure how he pulled thirty minutes out of a "pacing is slow, puzzles simple, repetitive enemies" approach.
The amount of times he pulled that "I'm the smart creator, and here's the dumb critic of my opinion" shit was really sort of childish for someone who's been around as long as him. I expect that of shitty webcomics and immature artists.
I've moved on to the Holy Saint Patron of Ech. He's proved far more enjoyable over these past few years.
[QUOTE=TheHydra;45266451]wow you can really tell some of this was written during jon era grumps[/QUOTE]
Doesn't help that the humor in this is also very jon-ish. Lots of zooming, spinning, random noises, etc.
[QUOTE=Doomish;45266510]His big thing about how Mega Man X teaches you the mechanics via intuition in the first sequelitis was pretty cool, but he took that as "games shouldn't have tutorials" instead of "games that are intuitive are good". I think he's too unwilling to accept that games need to have tutorials in general to be accessible to people, be they as intuitive as the mega man intro stage or in press-button-to-do-thing form.[/QUOTE]
Intuitive teaching is pretty much impossible nowadays because games utilize dozens of different button combinations
I must be one of the few people to actually like skyward sword,I understand it has a lot problems but I just had a blast with it.
[QUOTE=Eonart;45266527]Isn't Arin shown to be horrible at any of the 3D Zelda games in his Game Grump LPs?[/QUOTE]
Yeah but it's obviously because the game's bad, not because Arin Hanson is on DSP levels of manchild cluelessness.
[QUOTE=No_0ne;45266526]Intuitive teaching is pretty much impossible nowadays because games utilize dozens of different button combinations[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't call it impossible.
It's just that demographics are far wider. Gamers can be impatient and ignorant. And in some cases, people will just plain miss stuff and it can be extremely frustrating for them later.
[QUOTE=No_0ne;45266526]Intuitive teaching is pretty much impossible nowadays because games utilize dozens of different button combinations[/QUOTE]
Games that have simple control schemes can still do it effectively for sure though. The intro stage for Shovel Knight was pretty great at showing you the mechanics one by one and then mixing them up so that you got a feel for how they worked together.
[QUOTE=Manibogi;45266521]Doesn't help that the humor in this is also very jon-ish. Lots of zooming, spinning, random noises, etc.[/QUOTE]
wasn't the same type of things used in his previous sequelitis videos tho
[QUOTE=Doom14;45266543]I wouldn't call it impossible.
It's just that demographics are far wider. Gamers can be impatient and ignorant. And in some cases, people will just plain miss stuff and it can be extremely frustrating for them later.[/QUOTE]
Yeah try making an "intuitive" Capcom-style fighter with no tutorials, just let the players figure all the moves out by themselves. Sounds like fun to me![/SARCASM]
[QUOTE=Doomish;45266547]Games that have simple control schemes can still do it effectively for sure though. The intro stage for Shovel Knight was pretty great at showing you the mechanics one by one and then mixing them up so that you got a feel for how they worked together.[/QUOTE]
Shovel Knight is so simple I already knew exactly how to play it before I even picked up the game from watching a few videos of it. :v:
Christ that was miserable. Just endless shots on the same points in such a way that I can't do anything but tune him out after awhile. I haven't watched one of these before but he just totally drove me off.
[QUOTE=Panda Jerk;45266529]I must be one of the few people to actually like skyward sword,I understand it has a lot problems but I just had a blast with it.[/QUOTE]
It was very hard for me to get trough Skyward Sword. It was almost nothing there that felt like Zelda. I almost gave up countless times.
But I slowly started to accept it as I progressed. In the end I kinda liked it. It's not a bad game, but it's a bad Zelda. I need to replay it before the next one though.
[QUOTE=Manibogi;45266558]Yeah try making an "intuitive" Capcom-style fighter with no tutorials, just let the players figure all the moves out by themselves. Sounds like fun to me![/SARCASM][/QUOTE]
We're talking about Single Player / Adventure Games. Chillax. No one's threatening to remove your precious button sets. :v:
Man he sucks at oot
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;45266536]Yeah but it's obviously because the game's bad, not because Arin Hanson is on DSP levels of manchild cluelessness.[/QUOTE]
Is the stupid Arin bashing really necessary?
Personally, i thought this video was good, i think most (don't get me wrong, not all) points he made were valid. OoT DOES make you wait a lot without really having a purpose to it, there's a lot of length padding for absolutely no reason. On the other hand, it can be excused to a point because it was the first 3D Zelda and was more story focused than ever. It was an experiment and it did lose some of the elements that made the early Zelda games so amazing, things that were remedied in later Zeldas.
And while it's not really entirely excusable for him to be bad at games, consider that he grew up mostly playing NES and SNES games, as did Jon and Danny, and still continues to do so to this day. Modern games are just kind of awkward to them, much how old SNES games can be frustrating to modern gamers, not to mention the fact that they have to hype them selves up for super long gaming session while commentating and dreading the shitty backlash they're going to get from any sub-par performance.
I'll be the first to admit Arin is retarded and has gotten increasingly retarded but honestly, to an extent, some of it is excused by actually seeing what he has to go through.
[editline] July 1 2014 [/editline]
Also it took him like a fucking year and a half or something ridiculous to make this, it's gonna get jumbled and rehashed a lot.
I liked Skyward Sword. Sure the controls were wonky but the story and the environments and music and characters were all great.
[QUOTE=Dah-thla;45266653]I liked Skyward Sword. Sure the controls were wonky but the story and the environments and music and characters were all great.[/QUOTE]
Controls are kind of totally a big thing when it comes to video games. For the last time, SS, I don't fucking want to bomb bowl.
[QUOTE=DeVotchKa;45266630]Is the stupid Arin bashing really necessary?[/QUOTE]
It's a subset from the video dislike.
I understand the points he's making with the videos, but they're so shallow and reflective due to the time and nature of the game, that it was honestly silly for him to drag them out in such a way. Looking back on old games - it's fine to remove the Rose-Colored Lenses, but [B]not[/B] the ones wary of the timeframe the game was made in. Otherwise you can be as vapid as saying "grafhics wer bad."
I could bash Morrowind into the fucking ground hours on end for being convoluted, having an awful combat system, some extremely unintuitive quests, being totally without leveled lists, and with mediocre graphics even for it's time. And yet, for most who went on to beat it, none of those drag the game down too much. Combat aside, it's unusual and quirky nature combined with the lack of the world leveling up with the player created a really unique experience for most in the first run.
I could talk more on why his points are shallow in regards to Ocarina of Time, or we could have a field day instead comparing the different nature of OoT and Majora's Mask, but I think most people already have their mind set; there's not much reason to. :v:
i think jon was originally supposed to voice the skyward sword box in this video cause that's a dead-on impression of him
Two years ago, Super Bunnyhop (probably my favorite videogame channel) made a Zelda video that was in part a response to Arin's OOT bashing during Game Grumps. Every bit of these videos is just as valid now as they were two years ago.
TL;DW, You have to consider the both games in the context of their release dates and what the industry looked like at the time. Ocarina's mechanics feel dated and clunky because it was the first of its type. The constant explaining of controls comes from the fact that navigating a 3D world was a very new concept in the day, especially so for a Zelda game. A lot of OOT's clunkiness and pacing stems from that very fact. Ocarina knew that they were sailing into unexplored territory and instead put a lot of their effort into the world rather than the combat. With 3D, world building took on a (literally) whole new dimension. There's also what he in the second video calls "the Virgin effect" where the first game that you spend significant time with is the one you remember and cherish the most. It's the one by which you base and compare all your future Zelda experiences against.
A word of warning though, these videos are literally his first two videos. They're nowhere near as polished or well presented as his stuff is nowadays, but the actual content is still great.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePdD52WE-tY[/media]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3J2jk3AyP9M[/media]
As a personal observation, there's usually a very clear divide in people who like ALTP more and people who like OOT more, usually with one saying the other is overrated. Arin falls squarely into the ALTP die hard camp. Personally, I'm in the OOT camp and the reasons I like OOT more have a little to do with the gameplay and everything to do with how great the world was and how much I enjoyed the story, characters, music, and Link's journey.
Skyward Sword was far from a bad game
I was legitimately excited about this a year ago. Wasn't worth the wait.
For Arin really hating having to wait and be patient, he sure made a fucking long ass video that drags on for fucking ever.
[QUOTE=Why485;45266799]
TL;DW, Ocarina's mechanics feel dated and clunky because it was the first of its type. The constant explaining of controls comes from the fact that navigating a 3D world was a very new concept in the day, especially so for a Zelda game. A lot of OOT's clunkiness and pacing stems from that very fact. [/QUOTE]
Of course, but that shouldn't be an excuse. We don't take the prototype for a car design and say "ykno what, this was the best design and all the other ones made after are just trying to imitate it".
Well I guess I'm biased because I absolutely hate 3D Zeldas and ALTTP is my favorite.
I like both 2D and 3D Zelda games.
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