Sequelitis - ZELDA: A Link to the Past vs. Ocarina of Time
432 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Kegan;45269821]The moment I realized Arin is a dumbass was watching him and Jon attempt to play Secret of Mana and bitch about not knowing what to do.[/QUOTE]
But do we have to immediately resort to calling him a dumbass? Do we just have to jump on the negative words, instead of just saying "Well they just don't know how to play this game, AH well, better luck next grumps."
Yo Arin is a dumbass though, not just because of this. Look at the Naughty Bear GG, look at Wario World, look at Kegans example. It's easy to go "haha he made a mistake" but when he does it constantly at ALL TIMES there's little else you can say. It's not saying he's a bad guy either, hell, I'm a fucking idiot with a lot of things but I like to think I'm not a bad person.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyIGhXNlF34[/media]
Someone was worried about Spoilers in Matthew's video, he did a series review though and it's rather light on spoilers and very, very well penned.
I suggest checking it out.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;45269779]I'm not putting up a barrier, I said I understand that Arin was wrong. I agree that the video was just 30 minutes of Arin just complaining about Ocarina.
But here we all are, putting Four pages of people simple saying "Wow Arin, you're turning into DSP, you're such a winy baby, you suck." And other crap like that.
It's been going on since the Grumps did Naughty Bear.[/QUOTE]
If you think there are four whole pages of people calling ego a dumbass, you didn't read the thread.
There are actually very little posts overtly calling him names and quite a few that are actually calling out and rebutting his bad critiques.
My main problem with this video was Arin's tone. He was way too confident in what he considered to be fun. The whole "is this really fun to you?" thing, the whole video felt like him just getting annoyed that people don't respect his opinion. But at the same time I can kinda understand it and I've done the same thing in arguments with friends. It's difficult to put your feet in other peoples shoes sometimes. For example I recently got into a big argument with my friend about farming in League of Legends/Dota 2, and how the skill involved in right clicking creeps to last hit/deny is just completely disconnected from the skill involved in the rest of the game, the timing of abilities/intense team fight scenarios/fighting over map objectives like baron and roshan etc. To me it feels like a boring rhythm minigame in the middle of a really interesting and strategic team game thats kinda separate to everything else, but he really likes the way it raises the skill cap and allows for different phases in the game and allows for a source of gold income apart from killing heroes, and certain heroes are designed around being able to capitalize on that more effectively. I even said those exact words, "is this really fun to you?" and he said "yes it is" and I realized that was completely reasonable and we just had a different perspective on things, as stupid as that sounds. I think Arin's just mad at how much praise OOT gets because he doesn't like it, and even though that does seem a little bit childish I do understand where he's coming from, it is frustrating in kind of a dumb way when something you don't like is praised so much, it's just human nature to feel that mental disconnect when people don't agree with you I guess. He should really try to be more self aware about that though if he's gonna keep making critique videos like this, it definitely leads to bias, but I can understand.
Not going to take any side here, but remember that he said it was hard to do GG (be funny) and play games well at the same time. However, he must have given the games full attention for this review.
[QUOTE=Darth_Toast;45269908]Not going to take any side here, but remember that he said it was hard to do GG (be funny) and play games well at the same time. However, he must have given the games full attention for this review.[/QUOTE]
This doesn't really count if he's mashing through scripts like he has some kind of a twitch and then standing around doing nothing but complain.
Dudes really bad at video games and I remind people that he whined at Demon Souls because it had directions on the controls. [i]Demons Souls[/i]
This actually sums up why I don't like Zelda games pretty well.
Ego really likes to champion what games can be at their best as a unique experience. Feeling like the hero through the game[I]play[/I], and not exposition after tedious tasks.
[QUOTE=BuDSpOoNce;45269564]having just started playing oot 2 weeks ago, i agree with the slow pacing and long moments of just waiting. it does make it feel boring at times. although it was their first time making a 3d zelda game and besides that everything else is super well designed so i can forgive them for that.
can't say i agree with anything else in the video though. the story and dialogue is fine and makes the world feel much more alive. its like arin is stuck in the 80s and 90s with his dumb view on games. he just kinda, sucks at reviewing.[/QUOTE]
I don't think he sucks at it, I just think it's sort of a matter of... not having anyone good to argue with? I played Ocarina 3D and I was in love with it, it was the first time I played OoT all the way through and it was fucking great. But, thinking back, he's totally right, the story absolutely just tells you you're a hero and that you gotta do all this stuff. But he ignores, or perhaps doesn't agree, that it DOES enrich the game world, and it sort of gives you purpose. I could live with the game not shoving that down my throat more, and [B][I]FUCK[/I][/B] that owl, but the story was great imo. The waiting for chests to open and shit was kind of annoying though, but the thing is they brought that back in A Link Between Worlds when you go between Lorule and Hyrule. I fucking hated having to sit through the acid-trip transition, especially when I actually managed to accidentally go into the crack and had to sit through it twice more.
I think the thing is that he has all these opinions on this game but it seems like most of the responses he gets from his criticism is "NO. OoT is the best Zelda, it is my childhood" which is a stupid response. I mean, even Jon hardly argued against him very well, he didn't really offer a counter-point or progress the conversation that well.
I really disagree with what he said about Z-targeting though, I felt like it fit into the exploration just fine. It's like shifting your focus in real life for a moment. I did, however, agree with the fact that most enemies are so just, simple and time-consuming to fight. I still had fun fighting most enemies, but I wish more enemies would've been more aggressive. It did annoy me that in the clips he showed of him fighting enemies, he just stood there waiting for the enemy to do something. It makes it more fun if you engage yourself in it and actually try to jump around the enemy or attack them, because it either gets them to attack or makes it feel like it takes less time.
I seem to be the only one, but I loved Skyward Sword. I might even say it's my favorite Zelda game.I loved the setting, the story, and i SERIOUSLY had just about NO issue with the controls. If you arent swinging it around like an idiot then it's fine, especially once you get more accustomed to it. My jaw dropped and I was just so excited and amazed when I realized this was the first Link, and I was actually CREATING the BLADE OF EVIL'S BANE, it was fucking awesome. While most points people bring up about it are relatively true, I don't find any of those things to be such a big deal. Except about picking items. Fuuuuuckkkkkk that. I liked it better than OoT, but not having replayed it in a while, I can't really tell which one I liked more. I felt much more involved with Skyward Sword and connected to the story and characters and world, and I mean, someone here said that all the ground sections were just giant mazes, which I agree with and it really took away from the exploration aspect, I had a lot of fun exploring and making my way around those areas. And it wasn't too specific, either! It didn't really hold your hand all too much. The items were fun to use, and weren't always so obvious and used for the dungeon boss (to my memory). And the music was beautiful. I thought it was a really good game, even though it objectively could be very much improved.
The main point that I absolutely agree with is the one about how tedious it is to move between time periods. You can say Arin is just impatient but when it was as simple as it is in Link to the Past there's really no excuse, they could've done it exactly the same way in Ocarina and it would've improved the experience significantly. Playing Oracle of Ages, the way it works is that you play the harp of ages, and if there's a warp spot in the room it lights up and you can use it to travel between time periods. This is much smoother than disrupting gameplay by going through all the Temple of Time cutscene shit. It's true that many of his criticisms are invalid, the stuff about Ocarina of Time not using the setting to make fights more interesting is just plain wrong, it does that all the time. But that's one that I completely agree with and enjoyed when he made it.
There are exactly 2 things I dislike about Skyward Sword.
1. Sword combat. About halfway through the game you've seen literally every variant of the combat, and the latter ones are just more punishing towards your mistakes. It got pretty boring, honestly.
2. Controlling flying things with the wiimote. Fuck that. It is so goddamn inaccurate and puts so much pain on your wrists trying to navigate. Flying with motion controls is garbage.
Everything else was pretty good tho, I liked the settings and exploring. It will never get a 2nd playthrough from me though, unlike every other LOZ game. It did have a severe case of GIANT OBVIOUS WEAK POINT syndrome tho.
------
As great a beef people have with Twilight Princess's intro, once you get past it you've got a really enjoyable game, with some of my favorite sword and combat mechanics. It's like WW's but way, way better. And honestly, the only real tedium is the intro. I've got no real gripe with the game (except for the very last dungeon. What a goddamn mess of a maze that place was.)
My problem with this is that he keeps acting like he's some kind of victim for voicing his opinion when he doesn't realize that people aren't simply attacking him because he's criticizing a bunch of manchildren's favorite game, people are getting on his case because he's trying to thoroughly critique a game on a 90% subjective basis.
[QUOTE=TheHydra;45269072]
actually he talked about how he hated the spike blocks in 3D zelda yet one of his suggestions for the fire temple platforms was to...add a spike block, uh[/QUOTE]
he hated the spike blocks because you couldn't see them coming
if you're on a tiny platform and it only moves around the edge, you can see it as you get onto the platform, you will see it move past you often, and you can then time your jump accordingly
sure if you simplify his argument down to "I hate spike blocks" and then later "there should be more spike blocks", it looks like he's a bit stupid. But he wants or doesn't want the spike blocks for two completely different reasons.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;45269735]Congratulations! One year anniversary of Arin Bashing jokes.
Seriously guys, I understand Arin not being correct, but we Do Not have to slap his balls around because we don't like it.[/QUOTE]
What, are you the ringleader of the Egoraptor Defense Force?
[QUOTE=papaya;45270147]he hated the spike blocks because you couldn't see them coming
if you're on a tiny platform and it only moves around the edge, you can see it as you get onto the platform, you will see it move past you often, and you can then time your jump accordingly
sure if you simplify his argument down to "I hate spike blocks" and then later "there should be more spike blocks", it looks like he's a bit stupid. But he wants or doesn't want the spike blocks for two completely different reasons.[/QUOTE]
and you can't see the spike block right in the middle of the wide open room??
[QUOTE=papaya;45270147]he hated the spike blocks because you couldn't see them coming
if you're on a tiny platform and it only moves around the edge, you can see it as you get onto the platform, you will see it move past you often, and you can then time your jump accordingly
sure if you simplify his argument down to "I hate spike blocks" and then later "there should be more spike blocks", it looks like he's a bit stupid. But he wants or doesn't want the spike blocks for two completely different reasons.[/QUOTE]
The problem with his spike block argument is that the player can see the spike when they enter the room and it's up to them to realize that it's there and be cautious.
I agree with the bombs but everything else he's just nitpicking. Opinions I suppose.
[QUOTE=Rellow;45269737]What? When?
I can't believe the demon of sloth and ignorance we have today was borne from any sort of respectable man.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure exactly when, but it was around 2011 I believe. Hell, even [URL="http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1098284"]Facepunch agreed with him[/URL]
Pretty sure that's when Facepunch was trying it's hardest to defend DNF as a "okay game"
Buyers remorse can make you agree with anyone who's on your side at the time. Phil was still a idiot back then, he was just a out that made people feel slightly better about owning that turd game.
I like how Arin talks about exploration and combat, and has emphasis on Z targeting n shit with more complex combat, but Ninja Gaiden pretty much fills that.
I don't even remember the times you had to wait in OoT being that long. Maybe Arin is impatient, I don't know.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;45266499]Game Grumps has really put on the spotlight on how much of a douche Arin actually is.
It doesn't help that he used Game Grumps to insert himself into the work of others. I'm convinced the only reason Danny Sexbang is even on Grumps is because it gave Arin the opportunity to shoehorn his horrible rap in.[/QUOTE]
Nah, Danny is there because when Danny and Ross started Steam Train (which I figure is around because there's a lot of PC shit to do and Game Grumps primarily does old console shit) it was around the same time Jon figured out he was going to leave. There wasn't really a candidate process or anything, Danny is the other Grump now literally because he happened to be there at the time and it was convenient, quick, and easy. They already knew he was up for doing the kind of thing, so why not just go with him, y'know?
Anyway, I don't agree with some of his points but I still enjoyed the video. One thing I agreed with was when he complained about the whole being locked out of areas until you talk to someone or do some shit. Quite frankly I haven't played Ocarina of Time since I was the littlest tiniest baby, so I can't comment on how it applies to OoT because I quite frankly don't remember, but I will say that in general, I don't enjoy this. I still think you could do it well though, I guess, I just don't enjoy it. I suppose that's why I like much more freeform games like The Elder Scrolls, Fallout, and Mount and Blade which let you go wherever and do whatever right out of the gate.
And I suppose, in general, OoT isn't really Arin's kind of game either. Not that I know him through nad through or anything, but from what I've seen, Arin is much more of a game-y gamer. He's not much one for story in games or complex questing or anything like that. He definitely enjoys video games that aim not to tell a story so much as plain ol' be a game, which I feel is probably the reason why he enjoys retro games so much because they're little on story and high on gameplay and freedom. In a modern context, this would apply to shit like TF2, Don't Starve, Super Meat Boy, FTL, you know.
As for how this compares to the previous sequelitis videos, I will agree it's much more like a rant than a cohesive picking apart thing, but at the same time, I still enjoyed it. However, the random humor definitely went a bit too far and kept going on this one. Where as the random humor served as an aside in the Sequelitis videos beforehand, this time around it pops up so damn much that it gets in the way of when he's talking normally. I actually do enjoy some of Arin's opinions on video games, because, even while I might not agree with some of them, I agree with others and quite frankly he provides a different viewpoint a lot of the time, and that's something I like because I don't wanna hear the same shit I agree with all the time. In the future, I think less controversial Sequelitis episodes are gonna go down better though.
[QUOTE=DrogenViech;45268352]lowrule and hyrule :v:[/QUOTE]
it whats its called..
the fuck is wrong with bomb rolling? seriously. he made such a big deal out of it, but couldn't give a competent criticism in this 30 minute long video
[QUOTE=Blazedol;45270556]I'm not sure exactly when, but it was around 2011 I believe. Hell, even [URL="http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1098284"]Facepunch agreed with him[/URL][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=SunBird;30496662]Hail to both kings.[/QUOTE]
Jesus christ.
Though he still was an asshole back then, later in the thread someone says that they can't watch his playthrough because of his usual "I play like a fucking idiot and then blame the game when I die" shit.
I just noticed that he changed his cartoon persona from a jacket and shirt to just a shirt so it was easier to animate :v:
His complaints came down to waiting, combat/exploration which is something he seemed to have made up, and being told where to go apparently.
Now lets hold on for a second, this is the fucking trashcan who COULDNT PLAY WIND WAKER and thought it was HARD AND NEEDED A FUCKING GUIDE AND PRACTICE.
His wait complain was retarded, look at the fire temple example "Why do I have to jump across platforms? it just waste time and its easy" So does he want a game of just flat floors and hallways that take you right to the next objective?
His complaint about treasure chests was retarded, subjective, and not even a valid point. Both are suspenseful, alttp suspenseful of the big chest comes from you usually seeing it early on always wanting to know whats inside. OoT Chest suspense comes from the chest opening cutscene, its like a big grand thing that gets you hyped.
He also complains about OoT telling you too much and not letting you explore as much, like his example with death mountain, except ALTTP DOES THE SAME SHIT, hell even more blatantly since it puts map markers everywhere. OoT is not as linear as people think, you can do the dungeons in a wide variety of orders aside from forest/shadow(Forest is first, shadow is unlocked later) all that you need are the key items from the dungeon and you can leave and do something else.
He literally goes on fucking rants and stops critiquing early on, he fucking opens with a strawman and a lazy one at that. His Skyward Sword shit just felt like fuel to the circlejerk, yeah SS has a lot of problems, why does it need a rant in a video not about it?
Almost everything he complains about is shit he is personally garbage with in games, hes fucking AWFUL at video games, for anyone who still watches game grumps this should be extremely apparent by now.
Also he fucking complains about Z-Targeting? The shit that MAKES 3D Zelda so good, that single mechanic is the saving grace of its series, its fucking genius and it solved all camera problems even in OoT, I never had the issues he was talking about, it seemed more of him being shit at the game than the actual games fault.
I really went into this video putting everything aside and hoping for solid critique but it was shit, it was not a review, it was not critique, it really ended up being a rant.
This was a shit video and I lost even more respect for Arin, how can anyone take any critique or review seriously when it opens with a strawman and continues to have more throughout the video? Or how can anyone take someone whos clearly shit at video games and listen to there opinion.
Also that combat+exploration shit he was parading on about is something he just made up, its kind of like his "Game Feel" shit he parrots, he clearly doesnt understand what hes talking about if hes trying to call them shit like that.
Yeah i couldnt finish the video. It was just him yelling and ranting about how OoT was a terrible game. If the game controls isnt just up, down, left, right, then Arin is going to have a hard time playing it and thus makes him think that the game is just bad.
This video was kind of all over the place. If you asked me to summarise it I probably couldn't I could barely keep up with his arguments, I really just watched it for the mildly entertaining jokes and animation.
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;45272288]His complaints came down to waiting, combat/exploration which is something he seemed to have made up, and being told where to go apparently.
Now lets hold on for a second, this is the fucking trashcan who COULDNT PLAY WIND WAKER and thought it was HARD AND NEEDED A FUCKING GUIDE AND PRACTICE.
(etc)[/QUOTE]
The majority of his rant doesn't even make sense or is made up because he wants his opinion to sound unique and intelligent and smart even if that means he has to rely on hypocrisy and idiocy rather than common sense and moderacy.
And yeah Arin has been shitting out blurbs of gaming terminology that are either made up or used in the completely wrong spot every now and then. Didn't he use the word "Theming" in his megaman video when talking about intuitive level design instead of, well, just saying intuitive level design ?
[QUOTE=macotaco;45265835][video=youtube;XOC3vixnj_0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOC3vixnj_0&[/video]
YOU HEARD ME RIGHT. A new Sequelitis.[/QUOTE]
I think Egoraptor forgot that the Zelda is an adventure game not an exploration game. Most of his complaints can be refuted with actually paying attention and acquiring skill. Also most of his complaints came from him trying to rush through things rather then observe and come up with a plan, you know something an intelligent person would do. It's no wonder he dropped out of Highschool.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.