Female game characters, sexist or not? - General

I really don't get what this is about? Even if women in games are sexist, so what? It will not change and can't be changed. Virtual world is made by the idea of the creator, you can't simply come up to a guy and say "hey stop making big boobed women". I ultimately don't see how women are getting hurt from this.

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;29725068]It's dumb shit to complain about regardless their cause.[/QUOTE] Yeah, after all they're just dumb women, who cares what they think.

[QUOTE=TH89;29725012]Two editorials on business websites and a right-wing think tank think women are treated equally? Well, that changes everything. Black men could vote a hundred years ago. That doesn't mean they were treated equally.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.swifteconomics.com/2009/09/21/lies-damned-lies-and-statistics-the-wage-gap/[/url] [url]http://news.ufl.edu/2006/07/13/women-attackers/[/url] [url]http://www.rileycenter.org/domestic-violence-statistics.html[/url] [url]http://www.crimecouncil.gov.ie/downloads/Abuse_Report_NCC.pdf[/url] A century ago. Has things improved since that time? I would certainly say I would rather live now than back then.

[QUOTE=johan_sm;29724773]It's in our genes to love sexy bodies, not thin or fat bodies. Sexy ones.[/QUOTE] But the stark differences in each culture of what beauty is shows how loosely it is based on our genetics. We just seek beauty, that would be the gene, but even then its up in the air.

[QUOTE=TH89;29725120]Yeah, after all they're just dumb women, who cares what they think.[/QUOTE] Where did I say that? You're putting words in my mouth.

[QUOTE=johan_sm;29725099]I really don't get what this is about? Even if women in games are sexist, so what? It will not change and can't be changed. Virtual world is made by the idea of the creator, you can't simply come up to a guy and say "hey stop making big boobed women". I ultimately don't see how women are getting hurt from this.[/QUOTE] That's not how game development works bro. Its actually everyone coming together and throwing their ideas on the table.

[QUOTE=TH89;29724791] :allears: This is always the funniest part. Gamers will freak out and froth at the mouth if someone suggests that games are "not art" but as soon as someone holds them to the same critical standards as movies or books or television, all of a sudden they're "just games" and not meant to be taken so seriously, jeez![/QUOTE] You don't even know his full opinion. You are just as good at stereotyping as anybody else.

[QUOTE=analrapist;29724144][img_thumb]http://www.hopkinton.k12.ma.us/hsteach/mmcfarland/classes/1st_semester/wpd.05/projects/final/Schillinger-Final/Schillinger-practice2/images/Joey_Tribbiani.jpg[/img_thumb] They have the same chin!!![/QUOTE] [img_thumb]http://l.yimg.com/eb/ymv/us/img/hv/photo/movie_pix/paramount_pictures/sky_captain_and_the_world_of_tomorrow/drew_carey/skypred.jpg[/img_thumb] + [img_thumb]http://img.poptower.com/pic-39505/matt-leblanc.jpg[/img_thumb]

[QUOTE=Philly c;29725175]You don't even know his full opinion. You are just as good at stereotyping as anybody else.[/QUOTE] I hold videogames to the same standard as TV, not all televisions shows can be considered art. Just like not all games can be considered art either. But there are those games that stand out from the rest because of excellence in some form or another and that's what I'd consider art.

[QUOTE=Swilly;29725211]I hold videogames to the same standard as TV, not all televisions shows can be considered art. Just like not all games can be considered art either. But there are those games that stand out from the rest because of excellence in some form or another and that's what I'd consider art.[/QUOTE] But do you share the opinion of "gamers"? Or are you just one guy with his own opinion. Seems to me like th89 is arguing against people who are undefined.

[QUOTE=Swilly;29725151]That's not how game development works bro. Its actually everyone coming together and throwing their ideas on the table.[/QUOTE] Yeah, and the team that made dead or alive is filled with people who love jiggle titties(it's true, all their games are like that) Also I know how game development works, I'm not retarded.

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;29725068]What does that have to do with anything[/QUOTE] what if someone was complaining and I said they were niggering

[QUOTE=Philly c;29725246]But do you share the opinion of gamers? Or are you just one guy with his own opinion. Seems to me like th89 is arguing against people who are undefined.[/QUOTE] I'm probably by myself. I don't consider Call of Duty MW2 or Black Ops artistic because if you look at it, there is no central theme artistically behind except gritty and realistic, but even that's blown out of the water by the different colored guns and everything. On the other hand MAG is artistic because each faction has a specific style, and each of their weapons, gear set up and custom colors stick close to the style for that faction. Its similar to TF2 during its early years and before you could paint your hats, while the style was still the same cartoony and batshit insane gear it had a standard look. I'm not going over its change today, lets not get into that. [editline]9th May 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=johan_sm;29725298]Yeah, and the team that made dead or alive is filled with people who love jiggle titties(it's true, all their games are like that) Also I know how game development works, I'm not retarded.[/QUOTE] Then say that, not "one guy"

[QUOTE=johan_sm;29725099]I really don't get what this is about?[/QUOTE] Sexism in media. [QUOTE=johan_sm;29725099]Even if women in games are sexist, so what? It will not change and can't be changed.[/QUOTE] Attitudes toward women have changed hugely over the past 100 years, and in many cases their portrayal in films and television shows has contributed to that progress. The same is true of numerous other marginalized groups. So I don't know why you would suggest that all of a sudden, from now on, there will be no more change no matter what. You're on the wrong side of history. [QUOTE=johan_sm;29725099]Virtual world is made by the idea of the creator, you can't simply come up to a guy and say "hey stop making big boobed women".[/QUOTE] You can criticize a game for juvenile or misogynistic portrayals of women, absolutely. If enough people criticize a game (or a book or a movie) for something enough times, it can effect change in a variety of ways. Publishers may discourage it in order to avoid controversy. Game developers who like to think of themselves as progressives may re-evaluate their design choices. Gamers (many of whom go on to be developers) may think harder about the world around them and wind up with more tolerant views than the last generation. This is how change works. [QUOTE=johan_sm;29725099]I ultimately don't see how women are getting hurt from this.[/QUOTE] Would you agree that a society wherein a woman's value as a person is measured by how turned on men get when they look at her?

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;29725133] [url]http://news.ufl.edu/2006/07/13/women-attackers/[/url] [url]http://www.rileycenter.org/domestic-violence-statistics.html[/url] A century ago. Has things improved since that time? I would certainly say I would rather live now than back then.[/QUOTE] By "A century ago", do you mean, "1990's on"? Because the two links I kept in your quote didn't happen a century ago. Oh, women have more equal pay than we think, and get beaten a lot less and have a lot more rights compared to the past! That must mean they're equal, and don't still have to deal with sexism and abuse any more. Republicans making a barrage of laws attacking Planned Parenthood and women's rights recently? Never happened, apparently!

[QUOTE=ButtsexV2;29725312]what if someone was complaining and I said they were niggering[/QUOTE] I don't consider "bitch" to be a synonym for women, because not all women are bitches. And I always use "to bitch" as a synonym for "to complain" regardless of what gender the person I'm talking about is

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;29724826]Feminism is bullshit. Women are now equal to men in most countries, what the fuck do they want now? To bitch about retarded bullshit? "Oh no, this woman in this game has bigger tits than me, ban that game". NO. That's fucking dumb.[/QUOTE] They still face discrimination though.

[QUOTE=TH89;29725355]You're on the wrong side of history.[/QUOTE] History has no right or wrong sides, and doesn't support any group of people.

Silent female protagonist > Female Protagonist

I get blown out of the water :smith:

[QUOTE=CoolKingKaso;29725393]Um...they still face discrimination bro[/QUOTE] People who discriminate women are a different subject. They're fucking assholes, and feminists should be fighting THEM, not videogame characters.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;29725133]A century ago. Has things improved since that time? I would certainly say I would rather live now than back then.[/QUOTE] Great, now travel 100 years into the future and ask a woman if she would rather live in the year 2011 than the year she lives in. The argument that "things are better now than they were in [insert time when a whole bunch of horrible stuff happened] and therefore we should not try to make anything better ever again" is silly. [editline]9th May 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Laserbeams;29725437]People who discriminate women are a different subject. They're fucking assholes, and feminists should be fighting THEM, not videogame characters.[/QUOTE] [quote]In 1990, Wellesley College professor Peggy McIntosh wrote an essay called “White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack”. McIntosh observes that whites in the U.S. are “taught to see racism only in individual acts of meanness, not in invisible systems conferring dominance on my group.”[/quote] This is also true of how men see sexism. It's what you're doing right now.

[QUOTE=TH89;29725355]Sexism in media. Attitudes toward women have changed hugely over the past 100 years, and in many cases their portrayal in films and television shows has contributed to that progress. The same is true of numerous other marginalized groups. So I don't know why you would suggest that all of a sudden, from now on, there will be no more change no matter what. You're on the wrong side of history. You can criticize a game for juvenile or misogynistic portrayals of women, absolutely. If enough people criticize a game (or a book or a movie) for something enough times, it can effect change in a variety of ways. Publishers may discourage it in order to avoid controversy. Game developers who like to think of themselves as progressives may re-evaluate their design choices. Gamers (many of whom go on to be developers) may think harder about the world around them and wind up with more tolerant views than the last generation. This is how change works. Would you agree that a society wherein a woman's value as a person is measured by how turned on men get when they look at her?[/QUOTE] So wait, sluts in real life are ok, sluts in games are not? I still don't get how games are sexist. Because some games use sex appeal? Oh come on, games are not the only ones. Movies, ads and everything else uses sex appeal these days. And I don't see how sex appeal is sexist against women. I don't understand what to change in games, I see nothing wrong with jiggly boobs here and there. It's like porn but with less nudity and more game. Sure no one would buy your game if your cover had a nerdy chick with glasses and pimples all over her face. Putting good looking women in games is sexist how exactly? We don't discriminate against them or anything. We start to sound like old farts. Oh god, they didn't include a black man in the game, racist. Oh god, the woman has boobs bigger than normal, sexist. :foxnews: Games make our kids violent racist sexist fucks.

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;29725437]People who discriminate women are a different subject. They're fucking assholes, and feminists should be fighting THEM, not videogame characters.[/QUOTE] That's it. People should actually focus on REAL issues, even if they are outside of their own country or town or city. It tends to be that once a society has it well off, they focus on more and more trivial problems as life gets easier. Nobody gave a shit about feminism when the first farms appeared. Nobody gave a shit about the environment when cheap food, clothing and travel came about. Before the modern era people turned to religion to clear their conscience. Nowadays with that gone people stop focusing on that and instead focus on legalizing drugs, eating organic food and saving a threatened species because they feel as though they have to because they feel guilty for the easy life they have. Humans tend to focus on the easiest things to achieve, because people don't want to put effort into something actually important.

[QUOTE=johan_sm;29725544]Sure no one would buy your game if your cover had a nerdy chick with glasses and pimples all over her face. Putting good looking women in games is sexist how exactly? We don't discriminate against them or anything.[/QUOTE] You have no worth to advertising unless you're beautiful. But we're not discriminating against you or anything.

[img_thumb]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/50/Venus_von_Willendorf_01.jpg[/img_thumb] Oh my this represents women unfairly, it objectifies them and helps to keep them repressed. Even before civilisation and language females were repressed.

[QUOTE=Philly c;29725587]You have no worth to advertising unless you're beautiful. But we're not discriminating against you or anything.[/QUOTE] Advertisement is supposed to attract. No one wants to buy stuff if it has feces on it's cover. It's like complaining that my nerdy face isn't on a deodorant box.

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;29725375]I don't consider "bitch" to be a synonym for women, because not all women are bitches. And I always use "to bitch" as a synonym for "to complain" regardless of what gender the person I'm talking about is[/QUOTE] this is silly

I think most of this is really going to help the paper :D

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;29725437]People who discriminate women are a different subject. They're fucking assholes, and feminists should be fighting THEM, not videogame characters.[/QUOTE] feminists aren't fighting videogame characters [editline]9th May 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=slamex;29725789]I think most of this is really going to help the paper :D[/QUOTE] just ignore everyone except th89