Laws shouldn't be based on morality - General

Every single law that exists is based off morals. Most people will agree that killing or harming other people is wrong, but it isn't necessarily a universal truth that physical harm by ill will is true. There is just no way to know. This is why technically everything we believe in life and every single law that exists in this world came from some kind of base morality.

Anyway, I'm done with this thread. Lankist and Mo have both left, and it's just going in circles. I'm off to let my girlfriend play with my junk. And by let I mean make.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;17113575] Circular logic. You can't be addicted to meth if you never did it. It's not popular because people haven't done it and are addicted to it.[/QUOTE] It's not circular logic if a person trys it for fun and it gets too addicting for them. It's obviously not a "bad ass" thing that they do only because someone tells them not to. [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;17113575]Not at all.[/QUOTE] Why do you value life so poorly? Why do you believe people should have the right to end their lifes? They should if anything be studied so we can trumph depression and all related mental disorders. I'm sure there are plenty of people who really wanted to die, but 10 years down the road they thought they were stupid and opaque. [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;17113522]Meth is popular because it's illegal. People want to do it because they can't do it. If they could, few people would do it. If the government regulated it(The way lanklist said, I've said this 3 times now at least) then people wouldn't get as hooked, or as violent.[/QUOTE] I highly doubt the majority of people do meth because it isn't allowed. Maybe a small minority does it just to rebel, but the fact is it's a drug that can send you to cloud 9 and kill you. It being detrimental to your health won't change peoples minds if it became legalized. [QUOTE=b00ce;17113469]So because of a slim chance of something going wrong you say that seat belts should be required. Oh kay, I see we need to ban airplanes because they can crash if they fly a certain way too. GAHCHA. :wink:[/QUOTE] Close, but not really. Airplanes are required to transport things places fast and oversees. Airplanes are less dangerous because of all the safety percautions we do have in place. I can tell you right now, more people have died in car accidents for something as trivial as a seatbelt than from having their plane go down. Also Abyss what you were saying before is hilarious [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;17113439]Stop with this whole air of superiority. You have it because you think you can dictate what people can and can't do. [/QUOTE] It's funny because it's exactly what you are doing.

[QUOTE=davidofmk771;17109286]Drug laws laws are there for the protection of other other people, and family members from becoming distraught after the death of a loved one All kidding aside, I don't think your meth addiction hurts that guy driving in front of your house where you should do it. And only there.[/QUOTE] Tell me, are more people saved by the illegal nature of drugs than are killed by the black market created by illegal drugs?

[QUOTE=-hibiki-;17113643]Every single law that exists is based off morals. Most people will agree that killing or harming other people is wrong, but it isn't necessarily a universal truth that physical harm by ill will is true. There is just no way to know. This is why technically everything we believe in life and every single law that exists in this world came from some kind of base morality.[/QUOTE] Countries have laws to keep people safe, moral or not.

[QUOTE=Oecleus;17113674]It's not circular logic if a person trys it for fun and it gets too addicting for them. It's obviously not a "bad ass" thing that they do only because someone tells them not to. Why do you value life so poorly? Why do you believe people should have the right to end their lifes? They should if anything be studied so we can trumph depression and all related mental disorders. I'm sure there are plenty of people who really wanted to die, but 10 years down the road they thought they were stupid and opaque. I highly doubt the majority of people do meth because it isn't allowed. Maybe a small minority does it just to rebel, but the fact is it's a drug that can send you to cloud 9 and kill you. It being detrimental to your health won't change peoples minds if it became legalized. Close, but not really. Airplanes are required to transport things places fast and oversees. Airplanes are less dangerous because of all the safety percautions we do have in place. I can tell you right now, more people have died in car accidents for something as trivial as a seatbelt than from having their plane go down. Also Abyss what you were saying before is hilarious It's funny because it's exactly what you are doing.[/QUOTE] No, it's not what I'm doing at all. I'm telling people... "Do whatever the fuck you want to do" You're saying "You can't do anything." I value human life, but human life is useless when you aren't free to do what you want. As addictive as meth is, EVERYONE knows the dangers of it in general, if they don't, they're making an uniformed decision. Government should not protect you from this. Your second paragraph, go read Brave New World. Go live in a fucking Dystopia. You need to grow up and mature before you make decisions. Oh, it's not circular logic either. You just don't understand.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;17113730]No, it's not what I'm doing at all. I'm telling people... "Do whatever the fuck you want to do" You're saying "You can't do anything." I value human life, but human life is useless when you aren't free to do what you want. As addictive as meth is, EVERYONE knows the dangers of it in general, if they don't, they're making an uniformed decision. Government should not protect you from this. Your second paragraph, go read Brave New World. Go live in a fucking Dystopia. You need to grow up and mature before you make decisions.[/QUOTE] You are "telling people what they can and can't do". You're saying right now that I can't talk about this issue because me talkin about the ban of illegal drugs is somehow "Telling people what to do". You are also saying "I CAN do this if I want". Look at the air of superiority that is used in your last few sentences. Drugs can turn regular smart people into corpses, and if the government can stop this i'm saying they should. The legalization of meth and other terrible drugs will only open up the desire for everyone to try it. Sure, alcohol didn't kill me, tobacco didn't kill me, what's the worse meth can do? I explained how it is circular logic, try reading my post and refuting it instead of saying "ur jus dum"

[QUOTE=Ragy;17113727]Countries have laws to keep people safe, moral or not.[/QUOTE] Obviously. Almost every single human you ask will agree that being safe is one of the biggest priorities in life. I'm not trying to say that hurting people isn't wrong, i'm saying that certain laws are based off basic instincts. It's the level of consequential punishment that makes it based on morality. Different laws have different consequences. That includes laws regarding safety of the people.

[QUOTE=Oecleus;17113807]You are "telling people what they can and can't do". You're saying right now that I can't talk about this issue because me talkin about the ban of illegal drugs is somehow "Telling people what to do". You are also saying "I CAN do this if I want". Look at the air of superiority that is used in your last few sentences. Drugs can turn regular smart people into corpses, and if the government can stop this i'm saying they should. The legalization of meth and other terrible drugs will only open up the desire for everyone to try it. Sure, alcohol didn't kill me, tobacco didn't kill me, what's the worse meth can do? I explained how it is circular logic, try reading my post and refuting it instead of saying "ur jus dum"[/QUOTE] Look, you lost this argument pages and pages ago, before I even joined in. I'm not saying you can't discuss this, feel free to, that's the point. However, should I not be allowed to say it's ridiculous to try and ban people from doing what they want to do? Freedom bad! Yes, I had an air of superiortiy there, how could I not? You sounded like Brave New World. The last thing that anyone should want in life. Drugs also opens your mind, drugs also relax you. Do you take tylenol? Do you have dreams? Those are drugs(Your dreams are fueled by a drug called DMT. You trip every night and don't even know it, do we ban that too?) Yes, some drugs are terrible, but it shouldn't be the governments job to say you can't do it, it should be your job to learn what the fuck you're doing before you do. It's circular logic because his argument dictated it was popular because it was addictive, your argument is the way it goes, but just as many people try it, and don't get addicted as those that do. Why? Because it's the person, not the drug. Your argument sums up to "Government should protect us from ourselves". Sorry, I like to make my own decisions. That should be what everyone does. Choices are our own, not someone else's. On that not, i'm gone. It's tiring having to repeat the same argument.

[QUOTE=Oecleus;17113807]You are "telling people what they can and can't do". You're saying right now that I can't talk about this issue because me talkin about the ban of illegal drugs is somehow "Telling people what to do". You are also saying "I CAN do this if I want". Look at the air of superiority that is used in your last few sentences. Drugs can turn regular smart people into corpses, and if the government can stop this i'm saying they should. The legalization of meth and other terrible drugs will only open up the desire for everyone to try it. Sure, alcohol didn't kill me, tobacco didn't kill me, what's the worse meth can do? I explained how it is circular logic, try reading my post and refuting it instead of saying "ur jus dum"[/QUOTE] The flaw with your logic, is that you assume everyone is as thick as you are.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;17113884]Look, you lost this argument pages and pages ago, before I even joined in. I'm not saying you can't discuss this, feel free to, that's the point. However, should I not be allowed to say it's ridiculous to try and ban people from doing what they want to do? Freedom bad! Yes, I had an air of superiortiy there, how could I not? You sounded like Brave New World. The last thing that anyone should want in life. Drugs also opens your mind, drugs also relax you. Do you take tylenol? Do you have dreams? Those are drugs(Your dreams are fueled by a drug called DMT. You trip every night and don't even know it, do we ban that too?) Yes, some drugs are terrible, but it shouldn't be the governments job to say you can't do it, it should be your job to learn what the fuck you're doing before you do. It's circular logic because his argument dictated it was popular because it was addictive, your argument is the way it goes, but just as many people try it, and don't get addicted as those that do. Why? Because it's the person, not the drug.[/QUOTE] I didn't lose this argument pages ago, you have yet to rebut my argument, and you are degraded into trying to claim victory when you really are running out of arguments to try. I'm not saying freedom is bad, I'm saying freedom that hurts other people should be banned. Nice strawman Certain drugs do, but i'm not even talking about those drugs, woah, two strawmans in a row. Meth is popular because people try it, like it, eventually get hooked on it, driving it's popularity up. A hypothesis is that dreams are caused by DMT, the levels of DMT only increase slightly. There are other hypotheses that hold more water than that, but this is irrelevant. [editline]10:00PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Mr. Mcguffin;17113911]The flaw with your logic, is that you assume everyone is as thick as you are.[/QUOTE] Explain how my logic is wrong, instead of being a dumb pompous ass.

[QUOTE=Oecleus;17113952]Explain how my logic is wrong, instead of being a dumb pompous ass.[/QUOTE] I just did. Try uncrossing your eyes long enough to actually read what I wrote. P.S. Key words 'assume' and 'thick'.

[QUOTE=Mr. Mcguffin;17114034]I just did. Try uncrossing your eyes long enough to actually read what I wrote. P.S. Key words 'assume' and 'thick'.[/QUOTE] You're cute.

Just because you keep arguing doesn't mean your right. You don't have to accept that you were beaten for the rest of the world to realize it.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;17114055]Just because you keep arguing doesn't mean your right. You don't have to accept that you were beaten for the rest of the world to realize it.[/QUOTE] You have yet to prove anything. I have stated clear views and the reasons why I have those views, and you have yet to latch onto any flaw in my argument.

[QUOTE=Oecleus;17114076]You have yet to prove anything. I have stated clear views and the reasons why I have those views, and you have yet to latch onto any flaw in my argument.[/QUOTE] ...No flaws you want to recognize doesn't mean no flaws.

[QUOTE=Oecleus;17114076]You have yet to prove anything. I have stated clear views and the reasons why I have those views, and you have yet to latch onto any flaw in my argument.[/QUOTE] Hahaha

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;17114094]...No flaws you want to recognize doesn't mean no flaws.[/QUOTE] Remind me of these flaws, because I have yet to see any. This is going to end with you leaving and claiming victory, even though you are completely wrong.

[QUOTE=Oecleus;17114042]You're cute.[/QUOTE] And I can read too. Don't be jealous, we all have our faults. Some more obvious and annoying than others. How about I tell you what I said again? The [B]flaw[/B] in your logic is that you [B]assume[/B] people are [B]stupid enough[/B] to [B]completely disregard[/B] everything about [B]meth[/B]. Geddit now?

[QUOTE=Lankist;17114109]Hahaha[/QUOTE] go for it

[QUOTE=Oecleus;17114126]go for it[/QUOTE] You've yet to acknowledge that you are an advocate for thought crime and fascism. [editline]10:10PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Oecleus;17113094]How about we stop people from shooting eachother before they even have the desire to? By banning and heavily patrolling drug trafficing.[/QUOTE] That is fascism and thought crime.

Obviously his argument is air tight and we're all wrong. We should stop people from doing anything bad in their lives, anything bad at all.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;17114160]Obviously his argument is air tight and we're all wrong. We should stop people from doing anything bad in their lives, anything bad at all.[/QUOTE] We should stop people before they do anything bad.

[QUOTE=Uberkitty;17108171]In my opinion, laws should only serve to protect people and establishments from each other. Legislators should not make laws prohibiting victimless crimes and crimes which only harm one's self. I believe that laws which criminalize victimless crimes restrict personal freedoms while exhausting the capacity of prisons. This is why blue laws, laws restricting gambling, and drug laws are complete bullshit. Laws should only be in place to protect people from direct harm, such as the loss of property or bodily harm. My point is this: If it harms no one or only harms one's self it should be fully legal.[/QUOTE] Gambling laws could be done away with, but drug laws? Yes, the people harm themselves, but more often than not they only spread drugs to other people, and harm innocent people while high. Just don't get involved in that shit anyway.

[QUOTE=Lankist;17114162]We should stop people before they do anything bad.[/QUOTE] People don't do bad things! We have pre-crime division of the PD.

[QUOTE='[LOA] SonofBrim;17114167']Gambling laws could be done away with, but drug laws? Yes, the people harm themselves, but more often than not they only spread drugs to other people, and harm innocent people while high. Just don't get involved in that shit anyway.[/QUOTE] Drugs wouldn't get "spread" if they were distributed by the government.

My uncle is a millionaire who makes a living as a psychologist. He once told me the only thing that sets us apart from every single other species on this planet is the concept of morality. Removing that from laws would classify us as animals, no better than the monkeys swinging in the trees of africa.

[QUOTE='[LOA] SonofBrim;17114167']Gambling laws could be done away with, but drug laws? Yes, the people harm themselves, but more often than not they only spread drugs to other people, and harm innocent people while high. Just don't get involved in that shit anyway.[/QUOTE] Good thing too. Then all of the collectivists will kill themselves off like the plague they are.

[QUOTE=aridpheonix;17114187]My uncle is a millionaire who makes a living as a psychologist. He once told me the only thing that sets us apart from every single other species on this planet is the concept of morality. Removing that from laws would classify us as animals, no better than the monkeys swinging in the trees of africa.[/QUOTE] Your uncle is fucking retarded.

[QUOTE=aridpheonix;17114187]My uncle is a millionaire who makes a living as a psychologist. He once told me the only thing that sets us apart from every single other species on this planet is the concept of morality. Removing that from laws would classify us as animals, no better than the monkeys swinging in the trees of africa.[/QUOTE] Your uncle is an idiot, and he's wrong. All pack animals have some form of morality, chimpanzees for instance have a rigid system of grudges and reciprocation for bad and good deeds.