Laws shouldn't be based on morality - General

[quote]I don't want to be treated like a 5 year old, I've been depressed before, but i've never needed intervention. This does not mean that everyone else doesn't. I'm not telling them how they should feel, I'm saying wanting to live a life is the normal, correct way of thinking. If you don't know that, you need to update your current knowledge.[/quote] Fascist.

[QUOTE=Billiam;17143511]Who decides sanity? Sanity is about as relative as morality, the primary principles of America are doing anything you want(Provided you don't step on other people's rights). If someone wants to die, you propose the government steal his liberty away and stop him, even though it would hurt no one? [editline]04:19PM[/editline] Also this.[/QUOTE] You know, he might be insane. He doesn't want rights honored, and by your definition there, he might as well be. He's stepping on everyones rights.

[QUOTE=KingPurge;17143582]You know, he might be insane. He doesn't want rights honored, and by your definition there, he might as well be. He's stepping on everyones rights.[/QUOTE] He's not insane, he just believes in Authoritarianism.

[QUOTE=Oecleus;17143564]I don't want to be treated like a 5 year old, I've been depressed before, but i've never needed intervention. This does not mean that everyone else doesn't. I'm not telling them how they should feel, I'm saying wanting to live a life is the normal, correct way of thinking. If you don't know that, you need to update your current knowledge. Of course you can sit back and say "If i wanted to kill myself I would want the option to do it", but if you ever really had those thoughts, you wouldn't want those thoughts. You would want to a happy life.[/QUOTE] Except, I've had those thoughts, been in the hospital thanks to those thoughts, and I never once wanted government intervention. I would much rather die than that, and don't tell me I wouldn't. I would. It isn't the governments right to intervene in your own decisions like that. They might as well start telling you what job, what time, what place. Communism in essence, and I have nothing against communism except for how fundamentally flawed it is. Wanting to live a life is normal, but how can someone live their life when you're telling them what they can and can't do? They can't.

[QUOTE=KingPurge;17143640]Except, I've had those thoughts, been in the hospital thanks to those thoughts, and I never once wanted government intervention. I would much rather die than that, and don't tell me I wouldn't. I would. It isn't the governments right to intervene in your own decisions like that. They might as well start telling you what job, what time, what place. Communism in essence, and I have nothing against communism except for how fundamentally flawed it is. Wanting to live a life is normal, but how can someone live their life when you're telling them what they can and can't do? They can't.[/QUOTE] Why haven't you killed yourself yet? If you wish to die, and believe that wasn't just a phase, then why aren't you dead? They "infringed" on your rights. [QUOTE=Billiam;17143617]He's not insane, he just believes in Authoritarianism.[/QUOTE] I believe the government should go as far as required, and if you believe that everyone who suffers a moment of opaqueness should have to suffer death, you are a sadist. Intervention is not a bad thing, and as soon as you portray yourself as fit to think clearly you may live the rest of your life as well as you'd like as long as it isn't illegal. [QUOTE=Billiam;17143511]Sanity is about as relative as morality, ... If someone wants to die, you propose the government steal his liberty away and stop him, even though it would hurt no one?[/QUOTE] Yes, I do propose that, as hurting yourself isn't thinking clearly. Everyone should want a happy succesful life, and if they have a moment of being not themselves they should get serious care.

[QUOTE=Oecleus;17143702]Yes, I do propose that, as hurting yourself isn't thinking clearly. Everyone should want a happy succesful life, and if they have a moment of being not themselves they should get serious care.[/QUOTE] You know you deserve a dictatorship when you feel you can decide what everyone wants.

[QUOTE=Billiam;17143725]You know you deserve a dictatorship when you feel you can decide what everyone wants.[/QUOTE] You are trying to determine what everyone wants, what the fuck is the difference? If my point can be argued i'm not just trying to tell everyone want to do, i'm thinking logically.

[QUOTE=Oecleus;17143702]Why haven't you killed yourself yet? If you wish to die, and believe that wasn't just a phase, then why aren't you dead? They "infringed" on your rights. I believe the government should go as far as required, and if you believe that everyone who suffers a moment of opaqueness should have to suffer death, you are a sadist. Intervention is not a bad thing, and as soon as you portray yourself as fit to think clearly you may live the rest of your life as well as you'd like as long as it isn't illegal. Yes, I do propose that, as hurting yourself isn't thinking clearly. Everyone should want a happy succesful life, and if they have a moment of being not themselves they should get serious care.[/QUOTE] Except the line can't be drawn there. They can and will tell you what you can and can't do at all times because for gods sake, they're in power, and they supposedly know better than you do, and can classify you insane for disagreeing. Why am I not dead? Because my friends intervened, they didn't step on my rights. Who said I didn't believe it was just a phase? I said nothing about that. Don't put words in my mouth to farther your already dead argument.

[QUOTE=Oecleus;17143758]You are trying to determine what everyone wants, what the fuck is the difference? If my point can be argued i'm not just trying to tell everyone want to do, i'm thinking logically.[/QUOTE] I never tried determining what everyone wants, I believe everyone should have the power to do whatever they want.

[QUOTE=Oecleus;17143758]You are trying to determine what everyone wants, what the fuck is the difference? If my point can be argued i'm not just trying to tell everyone want to do, i'm thinking logically.[/QUOTE] No, you're not. You're TELLING people what they want. We're saying "Go chose yourself". You're saying, "You can't do an entire range of actions because I feel that they aren't what you actually want to do." You ARE arguing for a dictatorship.

Forgive me for using an analogy, but say being unhappy was the norm, if someone suddenly rose above the gloom would it be just to detain them?

What if the government told you what you could, and couldn't believe in? What if it insisted that christianity was the right way to go? If you didn't believe, you're insane. That is as much what you're advocating as anything else.

[QUOTE=KingPurge;17143867]What if the government told you what you could, and couldn't believe in? What if it insisted that christianity was the right way to go? If you didn't believe, you're insane. That is as much what you're advocating as anything else.[/QUOTE] No, it's exactly what he's suggesting.

[QUOTE=KingPurge;17143867]What if the government told you what you could, and couldn't believe in? What if it insisted that christianity was the right way to go? If you didn't believe, you're insane. That is as much what you're advocating as anything else.[/QUOTE] I'm telling everyone they shouldn't FEEL like the need to kill themselves, they shouldn't belief that they are worthless, as that is wrongful thinking. Pyschology recongnizes this as abnormal thinking. [QUOTE=KingPurge;17143769]Except the line can't be drawn there. They can and will tell you what you can and can't do at all times because for gods sake, they're in power, and they supposedly know better than you do, and can classify you insane for disagreeing. Why am I not dead? Because my friends intervened, they didn't step on my rights. Who said I didn't believe it was just a phase? I said nothing about that. Don't put words in my mouth to farther your already dead argument.[/QUOTE] The line can be drawn here, you are trying to create a strawman, where I want everyones rights infringed, and I want everyone to have the same opinions and desires, such as mandatory museum. I do not want that, I feel they should believe whatever they want as long as they aren't harming themselves. Your friends intervened, why can't the government? I'm not saying the government should lock you up in a padded room until you "think clearly", I'm saying they should intervene via phone as well as required anonymous meetings. [QUOTE=Billiam;17143775]I never tried determining what everyone wants, I believe everyone should have the power to do whatever they want.[/QUOTE] You believe that everyone should have the right to harm themselve, that is telling everyone what to believe and what they should have. You are contradicting yourself unknowingly. In the case of a world where everyone is gloomy, they should study the person who feels happy, as the person who is feeling better than everyone else. The normal should be an accurate represention of reality, whether or not that is negative should not matter. Depression does not show how the world really is, it shows the problems, but in an overexaggerated emotional way. Nice contribution Doriol, still sitting out are we?

[QUOTE=Oecleus;17144009] The line can be drawn here, you are trying to create a strawman, where I want everyones rights infringed, and I want everyone to have the same opinions and desires, such as mandatory museum. I do not want that, I feel they should believe whatever they want as long as they aren't harming themselves. [/QUOTE] So you basically want everyone to be in denial, or else.

[QUOTE=Oecleus;17144009]I'm telling everyone they shouldn't FEEL like the need to kill themselves, they shouldn't belief that they are worthless, as that is wrongful thinking. Pyschology recongnizes this as abnormal thinking. The line can be drawn here, you are trying to create a strawman, where I want everyones rights infringed, and I want everyone to have the same opinions and desires, such as mandatory museum. I do not want that, I feel they should believe whatever they want as long as they aren't harming themselves. Your friends intervened, why can't the government? I'm not saying the government should lock you up in a padded room until you "think clearly", I'm saying they should intervene via phone as well as required anonymous meetings. You believe that everyone should have the right to harm themselve, that is telling everyone what to believe and what they should have. You are contradicting yourself unknowingly. In the case of a world where everyone is gloomy, they should study the person who feels happy, as the person who is feeling better than everyone else. The normal should be an accurate represention of reality, whether or not that is negative should not matter. Depression does not show how the world really is, it shows the problems, but in an overexaggerated emotional way. Nice contribution Doriol, still sitting out are we?[/QUOTE] So you want the government to be everyone's parent.

[QUOTE=Doriol;17144041]So you basically want everyone to be in denial, or else.[/QUOTE] In denial of what?

[QUOTE=Oecleus;17144009]I'm telling everyone they shouldn't FEEL like the need to kill themselves, they shouldn't belief that they are worthless, as that is wrongful thinking. Pyschology recongnizes this as abnormal thinking. The line can be drawn here, you are trying to create a strawman, where I want everyones rights infringed, and I want everyone to have the same opinions and desires, such as mandatory museum. I do not want that, I feel they should believe whatever they want as long as they aren't harming themselves. Your friends intervened, why can't the government? I'm not saying the government should lock you up in a padded room until you "think clearly", I'm saying they should intervene via phone as well as required anonymous meetings. You believe that everyone should have the right to harm themselve, that is telling everyone what to believe and what they should have. You are contradicting yourself unknowingly. In the case of a world where everyone is gloomy, they should study the person who feels happy, as the person who is feeling better than everyone else. The normal should be an accurate represention of reality, whether or not that is negative should not matter. Depression does not show how the world really is, it shows the problems, but in an overexaggerated emotional way. Nice contribution Doriol, still sitting out are we?[/QUOTE] The line can't be drawn there. You ARE violating everyones rights, and whether or not you think so, the government can, and will press that line given the chance. You're doing so many things wrong by saying no one should be allowed to feel like that, you're essentially dicating thoughts. How is giving someone a freedom telling them what to do with that freedom? You're taking away a freedom, and telling them how to FEEL. Thought-crime Fuck you. Friends are allowed to intervene because they can't order the world differently, and are essentially powerless. The government isn't.

[QUOTE=Oecleus;17144068]In denial of what?[/QUOTE] How can you be happy without being oblivious to everything that goes on in this world? Occasional suicidal thoughts and depression is healthy.

[QUOTE=Oecleus;17144068]In denial of what?[/QUOTE] In denial of reality. Negative feelings are a part of life. Stop telling people how to live. Fuck. Also, you can't get rid of depression. Depression is what makes happy feelings mean something. If all you had was happy feelings, life would be boring and you wouldn't be happy. You'd be blaise all the time. Sad, and depressed feelings are what makes the highs of life worth it. [editline]01:52PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Doriol;17144112]How can you be happy without being oblivious to everything that goes on in this world? Occasional suicidal thoughts and depression is healthy.[/QUOTE] Healthy? It's unhealthy to go without that change.

[QUOTE=KingPurge;17144125] Healthy? It's unhealthy to go without that change.[/QUOTE] You should deal with depression on your own, not with government intervention. That was my point.

[QUOTE=Oecleus;17144009]You believe that everyone should have the right to harm themselve, that is telling everyone what to believe and what they should have. You are contradicting yourself unknowingly. In the case of a world where everyone is gloomy, they should study the person who feels happy, as the person who is feeling better than everyone else. The normal should be an accurate represention of reality, whether or not that is negative should not matter. Depression does not show how the world really is, it shows the problems, but in an overexaggerated emotional way.[/QUOTE] Giving the person the liberty to do something, and commanding them to do something are to different things, you're mandating something where I am not, if a person feels he doesn't need certain liberties then that's his choice. If you believe each are the same, you essentially believe that a dictatorship and free-world are the same.

[QUOTE=Doriol;17144165]You should deal with depression on your own, not with government intervention. That was my point.[/QUOTE] Exactly. And as Billam pointed out, you're telling people WHAT to do. We're giving them the freedom to make that choice themselves. What the fuck is wrong with that?

See, I referred to your vision as totalitarian and you did the same, when in reality I was asking for a freer society, see the difference?

[QUOTE=Oecleus;17144009]I'm telling everyone they shouldn't FEEL like the need to kill themselves, they shouldn't belief that they are worthless, as that is wrongful thinking. Pyschology recongnizes this as abnormal thinking.[/QUOTE] It's irrelevant what you want them to feel because their lives are their own property, not yours or the governments. The only person who should have a say in whether they live or die is them.

[QUOTE=Doriol;17144112]How can you be happy without being oblivious to everything that goes on in this world? Occasional suicidal thoughts and depression is healthy.[/QUOTE] Are you saying you aren't happy? Or are you saying you are ignorant of the world? Of course they are, that is why the government should be there to make sure you don't act out on those thoughts, they are part of life, and if you can't get over that section of life they will help you. [QUOTE=KingPurge;17144101]The line can't be drawn there. You ARE violating everyones rights, and whether or not you think so, the government can, and will press that line given the chance. You're doing so many things wrong by saying no one should be allowed to feel like that, you're essentially dicating thoughts. How is giving someone a freedom telling them what to do with that freedom? You're taking away a freedom, and telling them how to FEEL. Thought-crime Fuck you. Friends are allowed to intervene because they can't order the world differently, and are essentially powerless. The government isn't.[/QUOTE] The government tells you you cannot own some explosives, why aren't they telling you you cannot make babies? Your logic is flawed. While calling me a facist you are busy advocating anarchism. That's what governments are, they are giving you a freedom but telling you what you can't do with that freedom.

[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;17144194]It's irrelevant what you want them to feel because their lives are their own property, not yours or the governments. The only person who should have a say in whether they live or die is them.[/QUOTE] word [editline]08:56PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Oecleus;17144211] That's what governments are, they are giving you a freedom but telling you what you can't do with that freedom.[/QUOTE] You're either trolling or fucking retarded.

[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;17144194]It's irrelevant what you want them to feel because their lives are their own property, not yours or the governments. The only person who should have a say in whether they live or die is them.[/QUOTE] Congratulations, you summarized the opposite view of my own not saying shit!

[QUOTE=Oecleus;17144211] Of course they are, that is why the government should be there to make sure you don't act out on those thoughts, they are part of life, and if you can't get over that section of life they will help you. [/QUOTE] So you admit you're a fascist.

[QUOTE=Oecleus;17144231]Congratulations, you summarized the opposite view of my own not saying shit![/QUOTE] So your view is that the government owns people's lives? You, sir, are a fascist.