Laws shouldn't be based on morality - General

[QUOTE=Malumbre;17109807] Drugs shouldn't be illegal, but certain things should be during said drug use, like causing disturbances, violence, damage, etc., which is basically how it is with alcohol. As long as you keep to yourself, you're cool.[/QUOTE] That's a bit of an oxymoron you have going there. Drugs, which take away your control and ability to think logically, should come with restrictions which only a reasonable, logically thinking person can obey. We currently have this exact system with Alcohol. It's not illegal, but you aren't allowed to cause disturbances, violence, damage, etc. You can see how this does not work, since many cases of violence involve alcohol. Also, many people drink and drive and get people killed. Add the same rules to even worse drugs and what will happen?

[QUOTE=Billiam;17109789]This is one of the dumbest arguments ever. People are emotionally distraught by EVERYTHING, ban everything in the world that makes some person unhappy.[/QUOTE] The death of a person close to you is a horrible thing to go through - in can result in depression, alcoholism or drug addiction, family breakups or even suicide. Loosing a pet or a valuable item can also be distressing, but not on that scale.

[QUOTE=Camundongo;17109741]If you died in car crash, your friends and family would be distraught at your death. You've just infringed their right to a happy life.[/QUOTE] Hahaha, what kind of argument is that? You say your friends and family have the right to have you continue living?

[QUOTE=Billiam;17109874]KeyWord: Directly[/QUOTE] What the fuck difference does it make? Directly, indirectly? People are hurt, so there you go. It matters not whether or not it's direct. If I take a gun and shoot a wall and it ricochets off, headshots someone, and they drop dead, is it any better than if I shot them in the face directly? For them I mean. Not for me. Because I'd be a murderer. [editline]05:19PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Camundongo;17109954]The death of a person close to you is a horrible thing to go through - in can result in depression, alcoholism or [B]drug addiction[/B], family breakups or even suicide. Loosing a pet or a valuable item can also be distressing, but not on that scale.[/QUOTE] :irony:

I disagree. You do realize that the basis of justice is revenge, right? Someone wrongs you, so they get wronged back. [b]ITT: Amoral robots of human beings think that morality should not be taken into consideration.[/b] If everyone thought this way, we'd be living in a Brave New World.

[QUOTE=gufu;17109866]Flying bodies which attack pedestrians, kill over a dozen people each year.[/QUOTE] Well hey, it's a really... shitty reason but it [I]is[/I] a reason to support seat belt laws I guess. Also I pictured a flying body "attacking" a pedestrian and I loled.

[QUOTE=The Epidemic;17108328]--snip-- Child Porn would be perfectly fine, I guess.[/QUOTE] What part of [b]"laws should serve to protect people and establishments from each other"[/b] don't you understand?

This is one of those pointless philosophical ideas that will not be implemented for a long time and won't affect you unless you happen smoke a lot of ganja in which case carry on ranting.

[QUOTE=Malumbre;17109877]Because of self control vs. physics, something nobody has control over in a collision. Why shouldn't I be allowed to take a drug because some other douchebag can't handle it? Again, see alcohol. There are those who can get pissed drunk, go home in a cab and pass out without incident, and other cunts who have to start a fight and hit on other dudes' women, cause a scene in public and then drive home, etc.[/QUOTE] Yet, someone can do both. The extent to which alcohol affects someone depends on loads of variables, such as how they've had to eat, what they drink, their general mood at the time, genetic factors and more. Futhermore, just because you haven't lashed out at someone whilst drunk before, what is there to say that you won't in the future?

[QUOTE=Cors;17109925]That's a bit of an oxymoron you have going there. Drugs, which take away your control and ability to think logically, should come with restrictions which only a reasonable, logically thinking person can obey. We currently have this exact system with Alcohol. It's not illegal, but you aren't allowed to cause disturbances, violence, damage, etc. You can see how this does not work, since many cases of violence involve alcohol. Also, many people drink and drive and get people killed. Add the same rules to even worse drugs and what will happen?[/QUOTE] I highly doubt someone is going to kill someone else while on heroin or after smoking weed, intentionally or not. But the thing is, like I said, whether or not it is legal people are still going to do drugs and harm others if they're inclined to while impaired, and there are of course those who won't. [editline]06:24PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Camundongo;17110050]Yet, someone can do both. The extent to which alcohol affects someone depends on loads of variables, such as how they've had to eat, what they drink, their general mood at the time, genetic factors and more. Futhermore, just because you haven't lashed out at someone whilst drunk before, what is there to say that you won't in the future?[/QUOTE] I make the choice not to drink.

[QUOTE=Malumbre;17109589]Yeah, because nobody is doing those drugs due to their illegal status. People are going to do drugs if they want to do drugs, regardless of whether or not they're legal. If cocaine and heroin became legal tomorrow, I wouldn't do them because I've made the choice not to. If I wanted to, I'd get them despite being illegal and do them.[/QUOTE] Yeah but if you legalize them it's basically like the government would be saying "Hey, drugs are harmless enough for human consumption!" It'd give off all the wrong signals to kids. [QUOTE=Malumbre;17110067]I highly doubt someone is going to kill someone else while on heroin or after smoking weed, intentionally or not. But the thing is, like I said, whether or not it is legal people are still going to do drugs and harm others if they're inclined to while impaired, and there are of course those who won't. [/QUOTE] You deny that people have killed each other on account of drugs? Here and now I bet $1000 that crime aswell as addiction will see a rise if any country was to legalize heavy drugs such as heroin, meth or coke.

[QUOTE=Malumbre;17109877]Because of self control vs. physics, something nobody has control over in a collision. Why shouldn't I be allowed to take a drug because some other douchebag can't handle it? Again, see alcohol. There are those who can get pissed drunk, go home in a cab and pass out without incident, and other cunts who have to start a fight and hit on other dudes' women, cause a scene in public and then drive home, etc.[/QUOTE] You shouldn't be able to take a drug because it fucks with your mind. It gets rid of all of your judgment. Lets take PCP for an example...You can't control what its going to make you see. You could be in a really good mood and see walking fucking strawberrys and run over tackle it to the ground and take a bite out of it. You think it's all fine and good in your head but in reality you just bit some guys finger off. Or if you could be in a really bad mood (people that are in bad moods tend to take drugs out of frustration) you could see all kinds of scary shit and run around with a gun and shoot everything in sight. Now I'm aware these are somewhat silly examples but it's the truth :biggrin:

[QUOTE=Elecbullet;17109960]What the fuck difference does it make? Directly, indirectly? People are hurt, so there you go. It matters not whether or not it's direct. If I take a gun and shoot a wall and it ricochets off, headshots someone, and they drop dead, is it any better than if I shot them in the face directly? For them I mean. Not for me. Because I'd be a murderer.[/QUOTE] Yes, he can't control every life threatening event that may occur in his lifetime, but you can control yourself by not killing him on purpose. Accidents happens.

[QUOTE=Cheezy;17110093]Yeah but if you legalize them it's basically like the government would be saying "Hey, drugs are harmless enough for human consumption!" It'd give off all the wrong signals to kids.[/QUOTE] No it's the government saying we value individual liberty over the comfort of the majority.

[QUOTE=Elecbullet;17109960]What the fuck difference does it make? Directly, indirectly? People are hurt, so there you go. It matters not whether or not it's direct.[/QUOTE] This difference being direct, guarantees that harm will be done to you, indirect does not. [QUOTE=Camundongo;17109954]The death of a person close to you is a horrible thing to go through - it can result in depression, alcoholism or drug addiction, family breakups or even suicide.[/QUOTE] It's the own person's responsibility to deal with their emotional distress. [QUOTE=Cors;17109925]That's a bit of an oxymoron you have going there. Drugs, which take away your control and ability to think logically, should come with restrictions which only a reasonable, logically thinking person can obey. We currently have this exact system with Alcohol. It's not illegal, but you aren't allowed to cause disturbances, violence, damage, etc. You can see how this does not work, since many cases of violence involve alcohol. Also, many people drink and drive and get people killed. Add the same rules to even worse drugs and what will happen?[/QUOTE] Because drugs automatically make you murdering psychopaths, and no, people can constrain themselves even when using potent drugs.

[QUOTE=Cheezy;17110093]Yeah but if you legalize them it's basically like the government would be saying "Hey, drugs are harmless enough for human consumption!" It'd give off all the wrong signals to kids. You deny that people have killed each other on account of drugs?[/QUOTE] That's why you educate people instead of hiding facts and covering up the positives.

far as i'm concerned, let the trash on the streets do their hard drugs if they want. they'll most likely remove themselves from the gene pool that way

[QUOTE=Cheezy;17110093]Yeah but if you legalize them it's basically like the government would be saying "Hey, drugs are harmless enough for human consumption!" It'd give off all the wrong signals to kids. You deny that people have killed each other on account of drugs?[/QUOTE] I said heroin and weed. Alcohol for sure, way too many alcohol related deaths (it's legal), cocaine most likely, PCP probably, I'm not sure.

I have a good idea! Drug centers where people can take substances that make you violent like PCP and be locked up so users can only do harm to themselves. They pay a fee and generate income for local governments.

[QUOTE=Malumbre;17110153]That's why you educate people instead of hiding facts and covering up the positives.[/QUOTE] So educating people will stop them from killing eachother in drug induced rages? [QUOTE=Uberkitty;17110181]I have a good idea! Drug centers where people can take substances that make you violent like PCP and be locked up so users can only do harm to themselves.[/QUOTE] Basically a mental hospital with padded cells then?

[QUOTE=Cheezy;17110185]So educating people will stop them from killing eachother in drug induced rages?[/QUOTE] Educating people will give them enough information to chose responsibly.

I wrote out a logical argument approximatly ________ _____________ That long. However I tend to follow the old saying about the special olympics and arguing on the internet. Thus all i can say is your argument is wrong. It fails to take into account an epic number of things, namely psychological impact. I digress however. A belief that morality is somehow wrong, that laws are wrong, that the police are wrong, that legislators and the government is wrong, and that most people are wrong, will get you nowhere in life.

[QUOTE=Killoch0;17110225]I wrote out a logical argument approximatly That long. However I tend to follow the old saying about the special olympics and arguing on the internet. Thus all i can say is your argument is wrong. It fails to take into account an epic number of things, namely psychological impact. I digress however. A belief that morality is somehow wrong, that laws are wrong, that the police are wrong, that legislators and the government is wrong, and that most people are wrong, will get you nowhere in life.[/QUOTE] How unfortunate because the majority of people are very wrong.

Regardless of how this debate may go, the fact is that laws will almost always be defined by morality. The only way it would go otherwise is if the majority of key politicians in a certain time frame were all totally amoral, [b]AND[/b] if the new laws that they passed into being didn't cause the citizens of whatever country they work for to revolt against them. [editline]06:33PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Uberkitty;17110243]How unfortunate because most people are wrong. :([/QUOTE] Sir yes Sir.

If you wanna do drugs so bad then do them at home and try to be discreet about it so you don't get caught.

[QUOTE=Uberkitty;17110181]I have a good idea! Drug centers where people can take substances that make you violent like PCP and be locked up so users can only do harm to themselves. They pay a fee and generate income for local governments.[/QUOTE] I REALLY hope you're using sarcasm there.

[QUOTE=Uberkitty;17110143]No it's the government saying we value individual liberty over the comfort of the majority.[/QUOTE] Drugs do more than make the majority uncomfortable bub. [QUOTE=Malumbre;17110153]That's why you educate people instead of hiding facts and covering up the positives.[/QUOTE] gimme a positive to meth. In the meantime look at these teeth. [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/04/Suspectedmethmouth09-19-05.jpg[/img]

You know, I think criminals should be made subject to the same amount of pain and suffering they have enforced upon their victims. Would really destroy the crime rate.

[QUOTE=Killoch0;17110225] A belief that morality is somehow wrong, that laws are wrong, that the police are wrong, that legislators and the government is wrong, and that most people are wrong, will get you nowhere in life.[/QUOTE] [img]http://www.destination360.com/north-america/us/nevada/las-vegas/images/s/penn-and-teller.jpg[/img] These guys are doing pretty well. It is the responsibility of the people to question anything that affects them, to disagree from the norm, does not put your life in a hole.

[QUOTE=:smug:;17108346]but gambling and drugs lead to crime while i agree they should be less strict, there have to be some regulations[/QUOTE] if the drugs were legal do you think there would be an illegal market for them? no and that way criminals would have no interest in them apart from to get fucked up.