Laws shouldn't be based on morality - General

[QUOTE=Oecleus;17145775]It does make sense. You are saying carrying explosive matieral on your person is a conspiracy to comit a crime, therefore a person with sucidal thoughts is commiting conspiracy to commit insurance fraud. Look at your own logic, then you will see logic flaw. [editline]06:15PM[/editline] Admitting defeat in such a angry way is not smart.[/QUOTE] Nothing you've said is smart. If you take this as a victory, I can't say I really care. Why? Because you have yet to make one point. That isn't a conspiracy to commit insurance fraud as that requires a person to disguise their death as a murder or accident. Few suicide cases do this. Not insurance fraud.

[QUOTE=Lankist;17145815]A brain is not explosive material.[/QUOTE] You do not understand the analogy. I will not repeat what I said until you act as if you genuinely want to know.

[QUOTE=Oecleus;17145843]You do not understand the analogy. I will not repeat what I said until you act as if you genuinely want to know.[/QUOTE] The analogy is flawed. Anecdotal analogies are not admissible in legal discussion. There are no immediate implications of what you said because it is not comparable to conspiracy to commit crime.

Resilient person aren't you, throwing logic at you doesn't seem to make you submit.

[QUOTE=Lankist;17145879]The analogy is flawed. Anecdotal analogies are not admissible in legal discussion. There are no immediate implications of what you said because it is not comparable to conspiracy to commit crime.[/QUOTE] The analogy isn't flawed. If carrying explosives on a plane is conspiracy to commit a hijacking or the like, than a sucidal person is commiting conspiracy to commit insurance fraud. The person on the plane doesn't have to dentonate the bomb, just as the person with sucidal thoughts doesn't have to raise their insurance and commit sucide. This still can happen, so if you we use your logic with the plane situation, we should also apply it to the depressed person. [QUOTE=KingPurge;17145839]Nothing you've said is smart. If you take this as a victory, I can't say I really care. Why? Because you have yet to make one point. That isn't a conspiracy to commit insurance fraud as that requires a person to disguise their death as a murder or accident. Few suicide cases do this. Not insurance fraud.[/QUOTE] I've known two cases in my area where people have commited sucide with a large sucide insurance fund so they can escape life and give their children money. Once again, I have proven points, it's just the few people who have argued have not defending their viewpoints enough. They opt out of the argument when they stop replying, showing that they are wrong.

[QUOTE=Oecleus;17145420]I know the standard of evidence is low enough to give years of jailtime to someone is caught with denotable explosives on their person. All they are doing is having explosives, they may not even have the intention to explode it, but they are still going to get punished. It is therefore a thoughtcrime. A science professor may intend to blow up a government building, and may have the capability, but will he get punished? No. "Just because you say I'm a fascist doesn't mean I am" there has been no argument that has proven I am a fascist, everyone has just been calling me it. People HAVE carried things on planes in the distant past that could bring down the plane. There is no way of saying this, it has happened. I'm not talking necessarily about a ton of dynamite, but other items. Here are the logical fallacies you have brought into the thread, please argue with wikipedia about it. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum[/url] "GO HITLER GO!" [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man[/url] "..because you think the governments always right"[/QUOTE] Do you really need it outlined what your fallacies are? How about "If it isn't one, it's the other"? You keep calling us anarchists, or the government fascist for stopping a conspiracy? You just don't understand. And I haven't made a serious strawman yet, unlike you. All your arguments are strawmen. They've all fallen down too.

[QUOTE=Uberkitty;17108171]In my opinion, laws should only serve to protect people and establishments from each other. Legislators should not make laws prohibiting victimless crimes and crimes which only harm one's self. I believe that laws which criminalize victimless crimes restrict personal freedoms while exhausting the capacity of prisons. This is why blue laws, laws restricting gambling, and drug laws are complete bullshit. Laws should only be in place to protect people from direct harm, such as the loss of property or bodily harm. My point is this: If it harms no one or only harms one's self it should be fully legal.[/QUOTE] I second this.

[QUOTE=Oecleus;17145953]The analogy isn't flawed. If carrying explosives on a plane is conspiracy to commit a hijacking or the like, than a sucidal person is commiting conspiracy to commit insurance fraud. The person on the plane doesn't have to dentonate the bomb, just as the person with sucidal thoughts doesn't have to raise their insurance and commit sucide. This still can happen, so if you we use your logic with the plane situation, we should also apply it to the depressed person. I've known two cases in my area where people have commited sucide with a large sucide insurance fund so they can escape life and give their children money. Once again, I have proven points, it's just the few people who have argued have not defending their viewpoints enough. They opt out of the argument when they stop replying, showing that they are wrong.[/QUOTE] Because they don't want to listen to your stupidity anymore? Two people killed themselves for insurance fraud = Everyone who kills themselves commits insurance fraud? I can guarantee that there are more suicides without that goal than with that goal. You don't have proven points, you have points you think are right which are fundamentally flawed. You aren't using logic at all. You're using nothing to justify your claims. Your exaggerating one to prove another, and doing so with a bad analogy. It doesn't work.

[QUOTE=Oecleus;17145953]If carrying explosives on a plane is conspiracy to commit a hijacking or the like, than a sucidal person is commiting conspiracy to commit insurance fraud..[/QUOTE] hahaha, [b]what?[/b]

[QUOTE=Lankist;17146033]hahaha, [b]what?[/b][/QUOTE] you don't get it, therefore you lose. [QUOTE=KingPurge;17145957]Do you really need it outlined what your fallacies are? How about "If it isn't one, it's the other"? You keep calling us anarchists, or the government fascist for stopping a conspiracy? You just don't understand. And I haven't made a serious strawman yet, unlike you. All your arguments are strawmen. They've all fallen down too.[/QUOTE] None of them have fallen down, try again. Also try not to take me calling you anarchists. I wasn't, I was comparing it to how you were calling me a fascist. I'm not calling the government fascist for stopping the bombing, try fucking reading. If you can't connect to the argument, don't talk. My comparision to the bombing is connected to the goverment stepping into help. IF I DIDN'T WANT THE GOVERNMENT TO HELP SUCIDAL PEOPLE, I WOULDN'T BE COMPARING IT TO THE BOMBING, AS I AGREE WITH THE PEOPLE STOPPING THE PERSON WHO HAS A TON OF TNT IN THEIR BACKPOCKET.

[QUOTE=Oecleus;17146045]you don't get it, therefore you lose.[/QUOTE] I don't get it because it doesn't make any sense. How does suicide factor in to murder?

[QUOTE=Oecleus;17146045]you don't get it, therefore you lose. None of them have fallen down, try again. Also try not to take me calling you anarchists. I wasn't, I was comparing it to how you were calling me a fascist. I'm not calling the government fascist for stopping the bombing, try fucking reading. If you can't connect to the argument, don't talk. My comparision to the bombing is connected to the goverment stepping into help. IF I DIDN'T WANT THE GOVERNMENT TO HELP SUCIDAL PEOPLE, I WOULDN'T BE COMPARING IT TO THE BOMBING, AS I AGREE WITH THE PEOPLE STOPPING THE PERSON WHO HAS A TON OF TNT IN THEIR BACKPOCKET.[/QUOTE] Here's a strawman "Because I say so, It hasn't happened" That's your argument, about your arguments not sucking. You don't have to accept that your arguments failed for them to have failed. I made the connection, it's a fucking stupid one. It doesn't even fucking work.

[QUOTE=Lankist;17146074]I don't get it because it doesn't make any sense. How does suicide factor in to murder?[/QUOTE] If carrying explosives on a plane is conspiracy to commit a hijacking or the like, than a sucidal person is commiting conspiracy to commit insurance fraud.. Your side is this "Just because someone (Sucidal person) can do it (Commit insurance fraud) doesn't mean they will do it." Your side directly contradicts the side of "just because someone can do it (Carrying explosives) doesn't mean they will do it (Blow up a terminal) [QUOTE=KingPurge;17145991]Because they don't want to listen to your stupidity anymore? Two people killed themselves for insurance fraud = Everyone who kills themselves commits insurance fraud? I can guarantee that there are more suicides without that goal than with that goal. You don't have proven points, you have points you think are right which are fundamentally flawed. You aren't using logic at all. You're using nothing to justify your claims. Your exaggerating one to prove another, and doing so with a bad analogy. It doesn't work.[/QUOTE] I didn't say everyone who commits sucide is commiting insurance fraud, I said we should stop sucides as they can commit insurance fraud. There is no problem with helping someone to get out of sucidal thoughts. This is not only helping the person themselves, this is also helping everyone around them.

Now, i'm leaving because I'm going to go trip shrooms with my friend, because in reality, that's my freedom to. Have fun with being a fucking idiot.

[QUOTE=KingPurge;17146152]Here's a strawman "Because I say so, It hasn't happened" That's your argument, about your arguments not sucking. You don't have to accept that your arguments failed for them to have failed. I made the connection, it's a fucking stupid one. It doesn't even fucking work.[/QUOTE] Clarify, your post makes no sense to me.

[QUOTE=Oecleus;17146187]If carrying explosives on a plane is conspiracy to commit a hijacking or the like, than a sucidal person is commiting conspiracy to commit insurance fraud.. Your side is this "Just because someone (Sucidal person) can do it (Commit insurance fraud) doesn't mean they will do it." Your side directly contradicts the side of "just because someone can do it (Carrying explosives) doesn't mean they will do it (Blow up a terminal) I didn't say everyone who commits sucide is commiting insurance fraud, I said we should stop sucides as they can commit insurance fraud. There is no problem with helping someone to get out of sucidal thoughts. This is not only helping the person themselves, this is also helping everyone around them.[/QUOTE] Most, if not all insurance frauds are discovered, therefore, no loss. In fact, it creates business for police, and for private detectives. Nice strawman.

[QUOTE=KingPurge;17146192]Now, i'm leaving because I'm going to go trip shrooms with my friend, because in reality, that's my freedom to. Have fun with being a fucking idiot.[/QUOTE] Bye, you don't have to make up a lie to admit defeat and leave.

[QUOTE=Oecleus;17146198]Clarify, your post makes no sense to me.[/QUOTE] You said you had no strawmen, when you've made nothing but strawmen. Then you made another one simply saying you hadn't made one because you said you didn't. Simple.

[QUOTE=KingPurge;17146203]Most, if not all insurance frauds are discovered, therefore, no loss. In fact, it creates business for police, and for private detectives. Nice strawman.[/QUOTE] Nope, both cases my friends family got the money. Give me the statistic saying that all insurance frauds are uncovered.

[QUOTE=Oecleus;17146208]Bye, you don't have to make up a lie to admit defeat and leave.[/QUOTE] If you really believe i'm lying, fine, don't really give a shit because I can't possibly care what someone as stupid as you thinks. No one here has left and actually lost, simply given up arguing with someone who doesn't understand the points made against him, and doesn't know what he's even arguing for.

[QUOTE=KingPurge;17146240]If you really believe i'm lying, fine, don't really give a shit because I can't possibly care what someone as stupid as you thinks. No one here has left and actually lost, simply given up arguing with someone who doesn't understand the points made against him, and doesn't know what he's even arguing for.[/QUOTE] That's cute. I really don't care if you lie about it and leave. [QUOTE=KingPurge;17146218]You said you had no strawmen, when you've made nothing but strawmen. Then you made another one simply saying you hadn't made one because you said you didn't. Simple.[/QUOTE] I've never commited a strawman, you need to look up the definition of a strawman.

Your points why government should intervene for suicidal people: -They aren't thinking straight: Knocked down. -Insurance Fraud via suicide: This is already illegal, but if the policy did not state that it does not deal out in the case of a suicide, it isn't fraud. -Emotional distress to the family: If any of the family commits suicide as a result of someone else's suicide that is the individuals fault. Anything offensive can be emotionally harmful to people, really.

[QUOTE=Billiam;17146278]Your points why government should intervene for suicidal people: -They aren't thinking straight: Knocked down. -Insurance Fraud via suicide: This is already illegal, but if the policy did not state that it does not deal out in the case of a suicide, it isn't fraud. -Emotional distress to the family: If any of the family commits suicide as a result of someone else's suicide that is the individuals fault. Anything offensive can be emotionally harmful to people, really.[/QUOTE] They aren't thinking straight, this is true, you've never proven it false, and I have proven it to be true. Insurance fraud DOES happen, and it does hurt everybody. If we can prevent sucides (Not a bad thing) it will help limit insurance fraud. While everything else is freedom of speech, I respect that. I do not respect speech that is specifically made to cause emotional harm. Sucide isn't always done to commit emotional harm, but it can't be a postive thing. It can be prevented, and there would be no drawbacks [editline]06:44PM[/editline] I am done arguing, I'm going to play a game. But unlike all the other people, I won't leave trying to insult and try to regain whatever small argument i've managed to strap onto. I do not believe i am wrong, but i'm not going to leave saying you are all idiots and you are all wrong.

[QUOTE=Oecleus;17146339]They aren't thinking straight, this is true, you've never proven it false, and I have proven it to be true. Insurance fraud DOES happen, and it does hurt everybody. If we can prevent sucides (Not a bad thing) it will help limit insurance fraud. While everything else is freedom of speech, I respect that. I do not respect speech that is specifically made to cause emotional harm. Sucide isn't always done to commit emotional harm, but it can't be a postive thing. It can be prevented, and there would be no drawbacks[/QUOTE] It indeed was knocked down, sanity is relative. If a policy does not state it does not deal out to suicide it isn't fraud, and if the family tries to make it look like it wasn't suicide then that's already illegal, I've said this. Suicide is an escape from life, the intent is not to hurt others, it's a positive thing to the person who did commit suicide, and the drawback is trapping a person in a Hell-hole and spitting on his right to life. You're dancing around my arguments.

[quote]Insurance fraud DOES happen, and it does hurt everybody. If we can prevent sucides (Not a bad thing) it will help limit insurance fraud.[/quote] Stupid quote of the year. [quote]I am done arguing, I'm going to play a game. But unlike all the other people, I won't leave trying to insult and try to regain whatever small argument i've managed to strap onto. I do not believe i am wrong, but i'm not going to leave saying you are all idiots and you are all wrong. [/quote] You just did, but indirectly.

[QUOTE=Oecleus;17146339] I am done arguing, I'm going to play a game. But unlike all the other people, I won't leave trying to insult and try to regain whatever small argument i've managed to strap onto. I do not believe i am wrong, but i'm not going to leave saying you are all idiots and you are all wrong.[/QUOTE] Way to leave, without answering my arguments. [editline]06:50PM[/editline] The least you could do was concede before cowering out.

Holy shit this thread got long..

BBC did a comment article on how politicians tend to justify policy on economic grounds, and seem afraid to say outright that anything is because of morality. [url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8238919.stm[/url] Yeah, it's a comment article, but vaguely relevant.

Meaby we should simply kill everyone. Just like AM. I love that story.

[QUOTE=Eudoxia;17150272]Meaby we should simply kill everyone. Just like AM. I love that story.[/QUOTE] I have no internet connection, and I must troll