Civil war an overrated war? - General

[QUOTE=TailsPrower;25283832]There was no reason for the war, other than Lincoln was a member of the Wigg party[/QUOTE] Lincoln was a Republican. The Civil War was a conflict against defiant states that had always challenged the National Government. Heavily volatile issues about the fate of a new state being slave or free was kindling to starting the war. [QUOTE=TailsPrower;25283832]and sought to make American into an empire and the south was exerting too much control over their states.[/QUOTE] America's 'Imperial Period' doesn't really kick off decades later. The South was actually trying to make an Empire of it's own by trying to expand into the Caribbean and parts into South America so that they can have more slave states in Congress by throwing out money to the areas. The Southern states advocated a Confederacy, States were sovereign, I do not even know where you got to saying the South was exerting too much control over their own states. [QUOTE=TailsPrower;25283832] America was one of the only nations in the modern world to have a civil war over slavery--every other country emancipated slaves by compensation. If you study the economics at the time, plantation owners would have taken compensation for slaves very easily.[/QUOTE] And how does America being split on Slavery be any different? European countries sent thousands of their men to die trying to prove who gets to sit on a throne. Poor White Farmers would not be another viable option since those poor White Farmers in the South were as equally prejudiced against black slaves. Many of them would have probably see it as an insult for replacing a 'Negro' [QUOTE=iPat;25283931]That's the middle school understanding of US history, true. College level classes will tell you that slavery was really at the base of the conflict. The fighting over states' rights is often said to be the real reason, but they were fighting for the right to own slaves and make decisions regarding slaves. Lincoln was a known supporter of the containment movement, which wanted to limit the growth of slavery, thus the reasoning for the South Carolina secession threat which snowballed into the secession of all the southern states. The north and south economic differences transpired from the growth of the plantation economy in the south, maintained by slavery.[/QUOTE] Two contrasting societies from the North and the South may have been on opposite ends, but Slavery was kept in the back of the minds of many of the Northerners. The main rally was 'Preserving the Union'. Northerners joined up in order to keep the United States together, many of them were still prejudiced against blacks even after Lincoln authorized Black soldiers to enlist. Lincoln knew that if he spout out the issue of equality and race and how they are trying to save the blacks in the south, some of the border states would get [b]pissed[/b]. He kept it very vague on his intentions when it regarded blacks and he only spoke out of it in his Gettysburg Address.

[QUOTE=Babs;25282980] the south would've followed suit with the rest of the world and let slavery end. [/QUOTE] This was actually not the case. The great compromise left slavery alive because yes, the north believed it would end on its own. then the invention of the cotton gin. They NEEDED slaves.

[QUOTE=Farm;25283861][img]http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100722074142/crysis/images/c/c2/MAXIMUM_Trolling.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] [B]TO THE EXTREME[/B]? i dont see any trolling

[QUOTE=Babs;25283026]Because its just as real and dramatic as any civil war document. The Civil War to me is a glorified piece of fiction.[/QUOTE] Oh i get it. You're a troll.

[QUOTE=titopei;25283048]Either way, civil war was a hella cool war[/QUOTE] Yeah. It sure was cool that most of my states capitol was burned to the ground.

[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;25283958]Lincoln was a Republican. The Civil War was a conflict against defiant states that had always challenged the National Government. Heavily volatile issues about the fate of a new state being slave or free was kindling to starting the war. The South was actually trying to make an Empire by expanding into the Caribbean and parts into South America so that they can have more slave states in Congress. The Southern states advocated a Confederacy, States were sovereign, I do not even know where you got to saying the South was exerting too much control over their own states. [/QUOTE]The only reason they were defiant in the first place was because of the French. The Creoles were not exactly happy with the Louisiana purchase, remember that. It effectively destroyed the Dixie and people's plans on making a French speaking empire in the Americas. That problem lasted for a long time. Give me sources for your second claim, I've never heard that one before. Also, the industrial revolution was in full swing during that time. Equipment was slowly but surely making slavery a waste of money. [quote]Poor White Farmers would not be another viable option since those poor White Farmers in the South were as equally prejudiced against black slaves. Many of them would have probably see it as an insult for replacing a 'Negro'[/quote]What the fuck are you talking about? There were a lot of white people who would have benefited from the emancipation of slaves. Farmers who didn't have slaves were pretty much SOL because of the huge monopoly the bigger plantations had on cotton. In fact, the only reason slavery was not permitted in the northern states was so that people could find jobs. I promise you, people were not prejudice enough to starve.

[QUOTE=Bishop869;25284091]Yeah. It sure was cool that most of my states capitol was burned to the ground.[/QUOTE] he meant cool like interesting. ww2 is my favorite war to study and learn about. Not meaning i like millions of people being killed.

How the fuck can a war be overrated?

[QUOTE=Bishop869;25284091]Yeah. It sure was cool that most of my states capitol was burned to the ground.[/QUOTE]And that northern states treated people from their own damn country like animals, and effectively turned the south into the shithole it is today. Lovely war that was.

yea so is breathing

[QUOTE=The_Marine;25284116]How the fuck can a war be overrated?[/QUOTE] WWI's story was really lacking, dispite all the praise it got I feel that a lot of the whole thing was just spent sitting around in a ditch.

[QUOTE=The_Marine;25284116]How the fuck can a war be overrated?[/QUOTE] The same way a game can be overrated apparently

thats why ww2 is a lot more talked about

[QUOTE=imasillypiggys;25284163]thats why ww2 is a lot more talked about[/QUOTE] Pretty sure it's one of the most well documented wars of the 20th, plus the genocide that came along with it. Plus it was fucking massive compared to any conflict before and since.

[QUOTE=TailsPrower;25284101]The only reason they were defiant in the first place was because of the French. The Creoles were not exactly happy with the Louisiana purchase, remember that. It effectively destroyed the Dixie and people's plans on making a French speaking empire in the Americas. That problem lasted for a long time. [/quote] The Northerners enacted harsh tariffs that pile-drived Southern businesses into the ground. That was when Southerners started the get further pissed off at the North because they only pursued their own interests. That was when they really came up with the doctrine of Nullification. I honestly had no idea that the Creoles held so much influence in the South, and the Louisiana Purchase happened [b]60 years ago[/b] prior to the Civil war. No states were admitted into the union on the day they acquired that territory. [QUOTE=TailsPrower;25284101]Give me sources for your second claim, I've never heard that one before.[/quote] The Admissions of the states of Kansas, California, and Nebraska. John Brown and other extremists cutting each other's throats in the Midwest. Yeah, that's not too controversial. [QUOTE=TailsPrower;25284101]Also, the industrial revolution was in full swing during that time. Equipment was slowly but surely making slavery a waste of money. [/QUOTE] The South hardly ever industrialized before or during the war. They just stuck to agriculture. Slavery would have held strong even if the war did not happen, the South's economy was practically 80% agricultural. [QUOTE=TailsPrower;25284101]What the fuck are you talking about? There were a lot of white people who would have benefited from the emancipation of slaves. Farmers who didn't have slaves were pretty much SOL because of the huge monopoly the bigger plantations had on cotton. In fact, the only reason slavery was not permitted in the northern states was so that people could find jobs. I promise you, people were not prejudice enough to starve.[/QUOTE] Andrew Johnson was a Poor, White, Southern Farmer, Andrew Jackson was also a Poor, White, Southern Farmer. The two presidents shared many hatreds about the Aristocratic plantation owners along with other poor, Southern farmers. They are not just going to be working for the people they really hated. The CSA had it's own share of dissent and draft riots. [QUOTE=TailsPrower;25284123]And that northern states treated people from their own damn country like animals, and effectively turned the south into the shithole it is today. Lovely war that was.[/QUOTE] Yeah it's a fucking shit hole. Look at those cities. How atrocious. [img]http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:IFyVMEs-d1qICM:http://publish.pdesigner.com/rowlaw/Graphics/Library/1615410.jpg&t=1[/img] [img]http://www.teamestes.com/images/richmond-va.jpg[/img] [img]http://breezymama.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/atlanta-ga.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.sherpaguides.com/georgia/civil_war/midwest/Malnurished_Andersonville_Guy.jpg[/img] And don't you think the South had no blood on it's hands. It makes Sherman's Scorched Earth Policy look like a Macy's Parade.

[QUOTE=Chilean;25283283]Which is weird because you'd think we'd have figured that shit out from the Revolutionary.[/QUOTE] Except everyone was doing it while the South had sort of a guerrilla force due to all of the irregulars and paramilitary. [editline]10:55PM[/editline] [QUOTE=The_Marine;25284116]How the fuck can a war be overrated?[/QUOTE] When it is mentioned far too much and or receives more recognition than it deserves.

I don't think anyone outside of America cares about the civil war.

[QUOTE=JLea;25285051]I don't think anyone outside of America cares about the civil war.[/QUOTE] So everyone out side of France doesn't care about the French Revolution :downs:

[QUOTE=JLea;25285051]I don't think anyone outside of America cares about the civil war.[/QUOTE] Then don't post in this thread. :downs:

an overrated war? that's just silly

Does it really matter this day and age? It happened, it was a war. Lots of wars happen and do lots of America-changing rubbish.

[QUOTE=Oddshot;25285368]Does it really matter this day and age? It happened, it was a war. Lots of wars happen and do lots of America-changing rubbish.[/QUOTE] Stop with the America hating. America and Australia are supposed to be buddies. America, Australia, AND the UK are supposed to be buddies.

An odd interpretation of my words, but I suppose it can happen. I never meant to say anything America hating, I was trying to say that America gets changed a lot in it's culture and society. Sometimes to a degree where people just don't care anymore. Also, our governments may be "buddies", but it's a little silly to think that that means we're all suddenly pals.

Fun Fact: America is one of if not the only civilized country in the modern world that eliminated slavery through war. It also wasn't primarily about that, on the southern side of things anyway. It was about nullification and states rights (Ironically Democrats have used nullification-style laws in places like California to eliminate unjust federal laws)

[QUOTE=zombiefreak;25285144]So everyone out side of France doesn't care about the French Revolution :downs:[/QUOTE] The French revolution was important because it was the overthrowing of a powerful European monarchy, which hadn't reallly happened before. The Civil War was just your babby country fighting each other because they didn't like each other. It was heaps of young people dying for no reason, terrible military tactics and not much else. [QUOTE=DamagePoint;25285160]Then don't post in this thread. :downs:[/QUOTE] He's saying the Civil War is overrated, and I'm agreeing with him. Because it doesn't effect the world in any way. American wasn't a world power afterwards, and it didn't effect anything else outside of your country.

The Civil War was America's most bloody war fought so far. 680,000 people died on American soil. That's kinda a big deal.

[QUOTE=TailsPrower;25284123]And that northern states treated people from their own damn country like animals, and effectively turned the south into the shithole it is today. Lovely war that was.[/QUOTE] Texas isn't really a shithole.

[QUOTE=imarawrus;25288434]The Civil War was America's most bloody war fought so far. 680,000 people died on American soil. That's kinda a big deal.[/QUOTE] Only because it was American versus American.

Civil war = Trolls trolling trolls trolling black people.

[QUOTE=Babs;25282980]Whenever I talk to an enthusiast they always perk up and babble on how most people overlook the civil war and that many great strategies and moralities were born on those fields. But I call bullshit, if the north didn't declare war the south would've followed suit with the rest of the world and let slavery end. Instead of letting slavery end peacefully, war was declared and both the north and south are still facing repercussions to this day. Because of the civil war immigration and production of non weapons became completely stagnant. The Civil war is just as unnecessary as any war the United States would declare today. "What if the south kept slavery going?" . Morality is something that takes years and patience to grow, eventually people would be penalized spiritually as well as mentality. Slavery has always been wrong, but committing mass murder to end something faster is a much bigger crime. "Its much harder to admit wrongs than stepping on broken bones" - Confucius[/QUOTE] I'm not american but that war was a very important for freedom and rights for all people, race, man, woman and child in the united states of america. "Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal. Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this. But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth." - Abraham Lincoln. This sums up the reason why the american civil war was just and thats just the equality side to the war's brilliance. That was the first war of the industrial ere which showed Americans that old battle tactics were out-dated and would later help them in WWI and later II. So if you are american be proud of you're civil war! Its one of the only just ones throughout history! I'M NOT AMERICAN.........Irish so not bias in any way!