[QUOTE=Joscpe;43874346]FP hates The Amazing Atheist. Is there a "9 Most Annoying Things About Creationists" for comparison?
[editline]11th February 2014[/editline]
I think it's mostly which ever side you're allied with, you're to notice more arrogance of the opposing. I'm sure you don't see people yelling at every person you hear say "God bless you", or "Oh my god". At least from what I've seen there is more open mindedness on the Atheists' part.[/QUOTE]
My brother can be like that. I wonder if he's still a truther
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;43878944]Excuse me sir, you dropped your fedora.[/QUOTE]
When you can't make an actual argument, always fall back to insulting the poster!
[QUOTE=glitchvid;43878985]When you can't make an actual argument, always fall back to insulting the poster![/QUOTE]
You didn't bring up much of a decent argument either.
"Hey guys, I love being an Athiest, I can totally tell the other theists to either be my friend and realize that dere is no god the nice way, or call them faggots and laugh at their content for a higher power!"
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;43879020]You didn't bring up much of a decent argument either.
"Hey guys, I love being an Athiest, I can totally tell the other theists to either be my friend and realize that dere is no god the nice way, or call them faggots and laugh at their content for a higher power!"[/QUOTE]
I was simply trying to explain the reason behind most Atheists, since FP seems to have a burning hatred for anyone they consider a 'Militant Atheist'. If an argument or debate was wanted then they may happen; but I've already talked way too much with my sister on the topic and want to do other more creative things.
But nonetheless, I will lay down the format that would most likely be used.
The argument is pretty simple, that (In general terms) a theist proposes that 'god exists', they believe for some reason, do they believe because they have scientific proof? You then take them down that road (if yes) and reason through why they don't (or if they do, try to understand why and accept that); if they turn up with no real evidence, they often fall back to the faith argument, which is quite easy to question on: "Why believe in X religion instead of Y?" - often they will fall back onto scientific evidence, to which you again debunk.
I honestly feel bad for people who are lying to themselves to justify things; I don't think anyone should have to rely on a higher being for morals, instead they should rely on each other to understand that you should be nice to each other because you are both people with feelings, emotions and needs. To see what religion can do to what could be rational human beings makes me extremely depressed and angry that people could be so infatuated with something they haven't ever actually taken the time to study, whether because of being illiterate, or because they've just never been exposed to anyone who doesn't think like they do.
[QUOTE=asteroidrules;43878750]Lucky you, I've only known two that didn't.[/QUOTE]
Could you expand on this claim? I have met atheists who are staunchly anti-religion, but never any that actually threatened others with punishment for believing in god(s).
I'll be honest... I've never seen a theist on the internet act like a douche. A lot of atheists seem to see themselves as superior beings, though. Not saying all of them are like this. It's a minority group, but still...
[QUOTE=Swagalackin;43879117]I'll be honest... I've never seen a theist on the internet act like a douche. A lot of atheists seem to see themselves as superior beings, though. Not saying all of them are like this. It's a minority group, but still...[/QUOTE]
Quite a few, there are channels like TAA but with christian beliefs. If you want to hear how holier-than-thou some theists can be, just listen to The Atheist Experience and some of their calls they get.
Also, more back on topic: I think the Buzzfeed post was supposed to be satirical since About has dome things in a similar joking fashion: [url]http://atheism.about.com/od/atheistactivism/tp/YouMightBeMilitantAtheist.htm[/url]
[QUOTE=glitchvid;43879068]I was simply trying to explain the reason behind most Atheists, since FP seems to have a burning hatred for anyone they consider a 'Militant Atheist'. If an argument or debate was wanted then they may happen; but I've already talked way too much with my sister on the topic and want to do other more creative things.
But nonetheless, I will lay down the format that would most likely be used.
The argument is pretty simple, that (In general terms) a theist proposes that 'god exists', they believe for some reason, do they believe because they have scientific proof? You then take them down that road (if yes) and reason through why they don't (or if they do, try to understand why and accept that); if they turn up with no real evidence, they often fall back to the faith argument, which is quite easy to question on: "Why believe in X religion instead of Y?" - often they will fall back onto scientific evidence, to which you again debunk.
I honestly feel bad for people who are lying to themselves to justify things; I don't think anyone should have to rely on a higher being for morals, instead they should rely on each other to understand that you should be nice to each other because you are both people with feelings and emotions.[/QUOTE]
There is one major factor of the entire Athiest vs Theist debate that neither side really considers most of the time.
[b]Thousands of years worth of religious culture.[/b]
Years and years of mankind following Gods and Goddesses, Deities and Pantheons, Prophets and Messiahs. As well as all the faith generated by all populaces then, just to create beautiful works of Architecture, Arts, Writing, and Music. Men and Warriors, willing to charge onto battle for their respective religions, fueling the great battles and wars we've read about, and birthing the great generals we've come to know.
You're honestly going to go up to someone in Vatican City, the holy place for Catholicism, the biggest religion in the world, and tell them that all their traditions, culture, all the great arts and buildings of the world, are all pointless wastes of time, because a guy walked up to that person, and said "dere is no such thing as god because."?
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;43879177]There is one major factor of the entire Athiest vs Theist debate that neither side really considers most of the time.
[b]Thousands of years worth of religious culture.[/b]
[/quote]
We're not here to do what-ifs Atheism had taken foothold long ago, but about it's current place. Also, smells like an appeal to tradition.
Furthermore if we are to go down that road: what's to say the religious was an integral part of that culture's 'good' achievements: you could have had a society that was Atheistic; and instead of making a great mosque, they had made a great marketplace with equally as elegant construction.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;43879177]
Years and years of mankind following Gods and Goddesses, Deities and Pantheons, Prophets and Messiahs. As well as all the faith generated by all populaces then, just to create beautiful works of Architecture, Arts, Writing, and Music. Men and Warriors, willing to charge onto battle for their respective religions, fueling the great battles and wars we've read about, and birthing the great generals we've come to know.
[/quote]
[url=http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Appeal_to_tradition]Appeal to Tradition[/url], in large part.
But also; you're assuming all of those great pieces of artwork required faith, they require skill and motivation; which are entirely possible without faith.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;43879177]
You're honestly going to go up to someone in Vatican City, the holy place for Catholicism, the biggest religion in the world, and tell them that all their traditions, culture, all the great arts and buildings of the world, are all pointless wastes of time, because a guy walked up to that person, and said "dere is no such thing as god because."?[/QUOTE]
No, I would not walk up to someone in Vatican City since I expect all of them to answer "No" if I asked them "Would anything change your mind about your belief?". They are not willing to change.
Nor do I think that it is a waste of time or resources that are spent on Art, Music, or Writing; but sitting on one knee praying in the modern scientific era is.
And you clearly are not listening to my argument, I do not believe there is NO god, I am an Agnostic Atheist, I do not KNOW if there is a god; I am relying on Scientific Skepticism to dictate my belief: if substantial evidence can not be met to a claim: then one should not believe in that claim [that god exists].
[QUOTE=glitchvid;43878887]So you're saying that all but TWO atheists are preaching an eternal hellfire for not.. not believing in god?[/QUOTE]
I at no point said "all but two" I said that only two people [i]that I know[/i], who are openly atheists do not act equivalent if not worse than the type of radical preachers he was describing.
[editline]12th February 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=imptastick;43879103]Could you expand on this claim? I have met atheists who are staunchly anti-religion, but never any that actually threatened others with punishment for believing in god(s).[/QUOTE]
I've heard numerous state that religion is the only cause for problems in society, that religion is holding mankind back, plenty claiming a religious person is incapable of benefiting society, several state they believe both other religions and less radical views of atheism need to be eliminated, multiple that have actually advocated for mass execution of people based on their religion.
I again would like to emphasize that I am at no point saying that all atheists are like that, or that I believe them to be, I'm merely saying these highly vocal radicals do exist, and are quite visible.
[QUOTE=glitchvid;43879239]We are not here to ask what-if atheism had existed back then since what we know now wasn't known back then. Also, smells like an appeal to tradition.
[url=http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Appeal_to_tradition]Appeal to Tradition[/url]
No, I would not walk up to someone in Vatican City since I expect all of them to answer "No" if I asked them "Would anything change your mind about your belief?". They are not willing to accept being wrong.
Nor do I think that it is a waste of time or resources that are spent on Art, Music, or Writing; but sitting on one knee in the modern scientific era is.
And you clearly are not listening to my argument, I do not believe there is NO god, I am an Agnostic Atheist, I do not KNOW if there is a god; I am relying on Scientific Skepticism to dictate my belief: if substantial evidence can not be met to a claim: then one should not believe in that claim [that god exists].[/QUOTE]
You...think atheism is new. Marking unread
[QUOTE=Appellation;43879264]You...think atheism is new. Marking unread[/QUOTE]
No, Atheism has existed for a long time- only in recent times we have known enough about our universe to slowly chip away at religious claims, only recently has the scientific method become accepted as the way to attain the most reliable models of our reality.
[QUOTE=asteroidrules;43879253]
I've heard numerous state that religion is the only cause for problems in society, that religion is holding mankind back, plenty claiming a religious person is incapable of benefiting society, several state they believe both other religions and less radical views of atheism need to be eliminated, multiple that have actually advocated for mass execution of people based on their religion.
I again would like to emphasize that I am at no point saying that all atheists are like that, or that I believe them to be, I'm merely saying these highly vocal radicals do exist, and are quite visible.[/QUOTE]
While I have never met anyone that acts like that, I concede that there are probably quite a few out there. I will say you are unlucky to meet so many like that, the majority of atheists I know are just normal people many of whom dont even discuss their beliefs unless asked directly.
[QUOTE=glitchvid;43879239]We're not here to do what-ifs Atheism had taken foothold long ago, but about it's current place. Also, smells like an appeal to tradition.
Furthermore if we are to go down that road: what's to say the religious was an integral part of that culture's 'good' achievements: you could have had a society that was Atheistic; and instead of making a great mosque, they had made a great marketplace with equally as elegant construction.[/quote]
So you're honestly saying that living in an Atheistic society, means making a supermarket look like Notre Dame, or the Sistine Chapel?
[QUOTE=glitchvid;43879239][url=http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Appeal_to_tradition]Appeal to Tradition[/url], in large part.
But also; you're assuming all of those great pieces of artwork required faith, they require skill and motivation; which are entirely possible without faith.[/quote]
Most well known world wonders were built due to faith. The Pyramids were a Tomb ment to aid their dead Pharaoh into the next world, the Sphinx built to guard those Pyramids. What about Stonehenge? What about the city of Mecca? Or Vatican City? Hell even films, Ten Commandments is one of the best known films in history for crying out loud!
[QUOTE=glitchvid;43879239]No, I would not walk up to someone in Vatican City since I expect all of them to answer "No" if I asked them "Would anything change your mind about your belief?". They are not willing to change.
Nor do I think that it is a waste of time or resources that are spent on Art, Music, or Writing; but sitting on one knee praying in the modern scientific era is.
And you clearly are not listening to my argument, I do not believe there is NO god, I am an Agnostic Atheist, I do not KNOW if there is a god; I am relying on Scientific Skepticism to dictate my belief: if substantial evidence can not be met to a claim: then one should not believe in that claim [that god exists].[/QUOTE]
First, of course you wouldn't go to Vatican City and do that, that was just a metaphor. Second, you keep saying that I'm not hearing your argument, I heard it just fine, it went like this.
[QUOTE=glitchvid;43878246]Because [b]atheism is the correct way to approach Religion; it's saddening to see people so outwardly lying and being lied to, yet loving it.[/b]
People really only go one of two directions, [b]you either accept that these people are just misinformed, and do your best to help and inform them (The Atheist Experience, The Friendly Atheist, etc.).
Or you just go around bashing theists because "Hey, look how stupid these people are!". [/b]
Granted, as an Atheist [u]it can be fun to have a laugh at theists expense[/u]: but as long as you honestly are trying to help educate people (Which the Amazing Atheist isn't) then I don't see anything wrong with it.[/QUOTE]
According to you're argument, it's ok to piss on Theists, so long as you put out the excuse that it "helps them".
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;43879744]So you're honestly saying that living in an Atheistic society, means making a supermarket look like Notre Dame, or the Sistine Chapel?
[/QUOTE]
No, I'm saying that religion wasn't the reason they were great works, only that those specific buildings (That they be churches instead of X or Y) were the result of the beliefs. You do not need religion to make great things: look at the ISS, HST, and many creations by mostly Atheist visionaries.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;43879744]
Most well known world wonders were built due to faith. The Pyramids were a Tomb ment to aid their dead Pharaoh into the next world, the Sphinx built to guard those Pyramids. What about Stonehenge? What about the city of Mecca? Or Vatican City? Hell even films, Ten Commandments is one of the best known films in history for crying out loud!
[/QUOTE]
Yes, and the Pyramids required thousands upon thousands of slaves, for all the good Religion has made, it has done or continues to do bad.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;43879744]
First, of course you wouldn't go to Vatican City and do that, that was just a metaphor.
[/QUOTE]
No, not because it was a metaphor, but because they would never concede.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;43879744]
According to you're argument, it's ok to piss on Theists, so long as you put out the excuse that it "helps them".[/QUOTE]
What is your stance, that religion is good? That it is true? Please don't dodge this.
My stance is that Religion is a slippery slope: once you start dismissing fact and evidence for faith and made up stores you can be lied to and brought to believe anything: which is why I think the only solution is to be Skeptical Rational thinkers. Which following the Skeptical mindset, religion has not provided it's burden of proof.
And if you imply I'm OK with insulting people: I think we should accept some people just like to insult others, I don't condone it nor do I think it's an effective way to convince someone. Furthermore, whether something is nice or not doesn't have a bearing weather not it is true or not.
Unless you don't care about the truth, in which case there's not point arguing since you are like those in Vatican city and will never concede.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;43879744]So you're honestly saying that living in an Atheistic society, means making a supermarket look like Notre Dame, or the Sistine Chapel?
Most well known world wonders were built due to faith. The Pyramids were a Tomb ment to aid their dead Pharaoh into the next world, the Sphinx built to guard those Pyramids. What about Stonehenge? What about the city of Mecca? Or Vatican City? Hell even films, Ten Commandments is one of the best known films in history for crying out loud!
[/QUOTE]
I appreciate what you are trying to say, but atheists have created excellent works of art as well. You don't have to believe in god to make beautiful things. Picasso, Monet, and Matisse for example.
i know a lot of atheists
they're all Buddhist
[QUOTE=asteroidrules;43879253]I've heard numerous state that religion is the only cause for problems in society[/quote]
Which is preposterous, yes. Greed, lack of foresight and a Universe of other factors all contribute to the world's problems.
[quote]that religion is holding mankind back[/quote]
...what's wrong with this statement? It is. It DEMONSTRABLY is.
Fucking look at Africa after the Vatican told its people that condoms INCREASED the risk of HIV.
Look at what happened to Galileo and so many others for daring to question dogamtic bullshit about geocentricity.
Look at the short history of stem cells, and think of how much better modern medicine would be without the ignorant protestations of people trying to save the "souls" of EMBRYOS.
How sooner would slavery have been abolished if its proponents didn't have passages in holy books to point to so as to argue morality by authority, and actually had to argue its true merits?
How much less traction would industrialists have with people without them arguing that "the earth CAN'T be irreparably damaged because God won't let it be till he says so", or that "it doesn't matter because the fucking End Times are coming, so who cares"?
The pages of history are FESTOONED with examples of religiously inspired people having DIRE effect upon our progress as a species, and don't you fucking dare act like that isn't the case.
It doesn't mean religious people can do nothing but harm. Religion and the religious have done a number of amazing things as well. But that's not an excuse for the thing to exist. The fact is the religion didn't NEED to be involved for any of the good things it did to have been done. Secular good was done solely via secular means. IE, no service religious organizations provide cannot be provided for through secular means, so what's even the point?
[quote]several state they believe both other religions and less radical views of atheism need to be eliminated[/QUOTE] Depends on how they defined "eliminated," and how you define "radical atheism."
Rational people will conclude that religion is best done without by everyone, but it can only be done the hard way, through education, and maybe a touch of mockery. At the ideas, not at the people believing them. That distinction is important, though not one everyone will recognize.
Word must be spread, passively, but seriously. It can only occur voluntarily. Parents must be allowed to raise their children as they like, even if the unfortunate risk for indoctrination is very high. Religion must always be allowed as a practice and cannot be legally discriminated against. In short, nothing in the law must change limiting people's first amendment rights. Religion must simply fall out of favor amongst the masses, as homophobia has done over the last several decades. Attitudes must simply be allowed to change, and the information an aspiring atheist requires must simply be within easy reach when they come looking for it.
That said, it must be encouraged that atheism is not the important thing. Rationalism is. Without rationalism, atheism is unintelligent. Atheism is a natural conclusion to rationalism, so plant the seed of one, and the other will grow in time.
It's obvious by the boxes that this tread is being screened by hardcore atheists.
I'm not much a theist myself, but I have an understanding about the importance of Religion.
its really weird how atheism has flipped back and is now seen as mra fedora neck beard exclusive, and thats a normal thing
i guess most people are "agnostic" then? to avoid looking like a dweeb?
i don't often talk about religion, when people ask, i say im an atheist but i have a jewish dad, so i celebrate hanukkah, so it confuses a lot of people
i just never felt like god was a believable thing, or any mythology
this mini rant is probably why people think atheists are annoying
fuck its such a bummer that 2013 wrecked all credibility for athiests
[QUOTE=notlabbet;43881016]fuck its such a bummer that 2013 wrecked all credibility for athiests[/QUOTE]
Exactly how is that so? I don't recall anything overtly bad happening.
[QUOTE=notlabbet;43881016]its really weird how atheism has flipped back and is now seen as mra fedora neck beard exclusive, and thats a normal thing
i guess most people are "agnostic" then? to avoid looking like a dweeb?
i don't often talk about religion, when people ask, i say im an atheist but i have a jewish dad, so i celebrate hanukkah, so it confuses a lot of people
i just never felt like god was a believable thing, or any mythology
this mini rant is probably why people think atheists are annoying
fuck its such a bummer that 2013 wrecked all credibility for athiests[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I'm mostly quiet about the topic because I don't want shit from people about it, I'm just not religious, and I just focus on what's important for myself right now. Although I do think about saying fuck it, and just being a Catholic again.
im not an annoying idiot!! id better make an annoying video where im an idiot to disprove this article
[QUOTE=Rusty100;43881137]im not an annoying idiot!! id better make an annoying video where im an idiot to disprove this article[/QUOTE]Okay, I'm sorry... I know your mileage really might vary for how well you can tolerate TJ's personality... but apart from the article itself possibly not being serious, what if anything was he wrong about in his points? From what I saw, his answers were largely accurate, if not as complete as I'd usually make them.
[QUOTE=J-Dude;43881177]Okay, I'm sorry... I know your mileage really might vary for how well you can tolerate TJ's personality... but apart from the article itself possibly not being serious, what if anything was he wrong about in his points? From what I saw, his answers were largely accurate, if not as complete as I'd usually make them.[/QUOTE]
none of that has anything to do with him not being an annoying idiot
[QUOTE=J-Dude;43881177]Okay, I'm sorry... I know your mileage really might vary for how well you can tolerate TJ's personality... but apart from the article itself possibly not being serious, what if anything was he wrong about in his points? From what I saw, his answers were largely accurate, if not as complete as I'd usually make them.[/QUOTE]
It's possible to be technically correct in everything you say and still annoying as shit.
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