The way I see it uniform in general is pointless, schools have become about looking good (mucking with results, changing names "home learning" and ignoring punishment for statistics). Uniform makes many students feel uncomfortable and I'm sure people would feel a lot more motivated and relaxed in, metaphorically, their own skin. Another argument is that people will be bullied for the clothes they wear or bands they like etc, honestly, I've been bullied for years and I doubt they care about my fashion sense, bullied focus on weight, height, pitch of voice or just the amount of people they have to stick up for them more than clothing.
I wear a uniform, and I must agree that I think uniforms are a bit uneccesarry. For one, I had to waste another 6 dollars to get like, a 1 inch school logo embroidery on the butt of my pants that is barley visable. Plus the pants are tight and really chafe in places (that will not be named). As well, they aren't really that comfortable. You don't have much of your creative style of expression when you wear uniforms, and it doesn't show your individuality. I definately oppose of uniforms, but do beleive in dresscodes so nobody dresses innapropriately during school.
[QUOTE=imtehberst;38314833]I wear a uniform, and I must agree that I think uniforms are a bit uneccesarry. For one, I had to waste another 6 dollars to get like, a 1 inch school logo embroidery on the butt of my pants that is barley visable. Plus the pants are tight and really chafe in places (that will not be named). As well, they aren't really that comfortable. You don't have much of your creative style of expression when you wear uniforms, and it doesn't show your individuality. I definately oppose of uniforms, but do beleive in dresscodes so nobody dresses innapropriately during school.[/QUOTE]
I never understood the point of 'School Uniforms' or even 'Dresscodes.' They always block out the stupidest things... Here's mine.
No sweats
No Camo
No Athletic Shorts
No Sport T-shirts
No Representation of a sports team
Etc.
honestly people will dress like sluts and douches, uniforms or no uniforms, they find a way
idk about you but my highschool's electronics policy was from the dark ages of windows 98, (they also had some windows 98 machines)
no electronics, NONE, anything that used the current of flowing electrons as it's lifeblood shall be immediately seized and imprisoned and only released on the signature of a parent. mind you i only just graduated in may, even though tablets and ipod touches, and iphones were ubiquitous in every day life by then
also their plagiarism policy is retarded, basically its up to the teacher to decide if she's bitchy enough to fail you, it doesn't even state what is plagiarism, just that you know what it is so we don't have to write it in this rulebook about rules, so if you are missing one citation out of an entire 20 page paper, instant F, very hard to negotiate with i'm right, your wrong teachers.
and some bitchy teacher tried to get me suspended for playing cards with my friend, i even showed her the school's own words on card games, she still wanted to send me to the principal, so i just said i would go on my own, and left
i swear 90% of the teachers at my highschool thought they were in an ivy league college instead of a broke as fuck public highschool in the middle of a cornfield
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Anecdotes are not debating" - Megafan))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=shian;38166872]I think its silly to have school uniforms, because its a waste of money. You aren't going to be wearing it for long, and as soon as school is over or you had graduated you won't be wearing it. [/quote] I've always thought this was silly as well. If I ran a school the dress code would be "If you're comfortable wearing it into public and it won't get you an indecent exposure citation you can wear it to school. Oh, and no shoes that can easily come off, we can't guarantee the parking lot is free of sharp or hot objects."
No, I don't care if the class whore wears a bikini to her 11th grade english class, or that the class anarchist asleep in the back of class is wearing a grateful dead T-shirt and "Fuck You!" hat. They're old enough to dress themselves, and if someone else can't pay attention to their lit teach because of a pair of titties they need to learn that skill while they still can, because if they still have that problem when they're in the real world they're not going very far.
[quote]And the punishments that follow for not following the school rules are rather strict and they don't seem to be productive under any circumstances, but rather make things worse.[/quote] My experience was that they were ineffective. Kids that just didn't want to go could go do something absolutely trivial and be handed three days of R&R where they don't have to worry about school for it. Win-fucking-win in their eyes.
[quote]Making a student retain because of poor grades or results is an example. Not only does it make the student feel like shit because he can't keep up with his peers, and it may not help him to become better in whichever topics that he is weak in. [/quote]
Uhh, no. Holding someone back a grade is perfectly plausible. If we pass them anyway we end up with one of two situations.
The one my high school faced was that the curriculum was designed for 7th graders because so many of them were passed just as you're saying. Nobody learned anything because they had to dumb the coursework down so much in order to pass the lazy fuckwits that didn't bother at all and knew they'd graduate anyway because nobody was willing to fail them.
The other problem is that, if the above doesn't happen, you end up in a situation where graduation rates are so pathetic the public is literally crying for blood. Public pressure on school systems to get graduation rates up flies in the face of passing the lazy fuckwits and not dumbing down the curriculum. Not only that, but graduation rates are one of the major determining factors on whether or not a high school stayed open, as was the case with mine. Too few kids graduate and the state pulls their funding. Bam. School closed.
The only solution is to hold them back when they fail. It may seem cruel to you, but it only affects the kid getting hold back. Passing them anyway[i] affects everyone that attends their school.[/i]
Hell I was a bit of a lazy one myself. The only reason I did anything at all in the pre-requisite classes was because I'd be held back if I didn't. I did enough to pass, nothing more. I was in high school because the state law said I had to be, not because I wanted to be, so I had no incentive to perform my best.
[quote]Suspending a student because of small mistakes is a pretty big waste of time, and it stops a student from knowing any important details. Its not the student's fault if he doesn't know about what you had asked him when he clearly missed the lesson.[/quote] In my school it was the student's responsibility to catch up on their own time. The teachers were not supposed to help these students get back up to speed. The theory behind this is that it would add some sort of teeth to the punishment. In practice it sort of didn't...
My issue with suspension is that it just doesn't work. I knew a few kids that would intentionally get three days of OSS just so they didn't have to come to school. Getting it was piss easy too, all you had to do was swear a few times in front of a principal, and their parents obviously did not care all that much about their kid saying naughty words. So it was a free vacation for them. They'd usually do it on tuesday or friday so they'd have five consecutive off days, too
[quote]I'm sure that there are rules that should be gotten rid of a long time ago.[/QUOTE]
I would say the zero tolerance on cell phones rules should disappear. I would rewrite the rule to say "Electronics are confiscated if they disturb the entire class, otherwise they're kosher." If Student A wants to have music in one ear while they work on their classwork, sure, whatever. If Student G wants to text her BFF, that's fine too. The big thing is that they're not disturbing their classmates. This, of course, also comes with the caveat "If you text so much you fail the class, tough. You get the fail. Learn to budget your time better."
[QUOTE=Sableye;38317595]honestly people will dress like sluts and douches, uniforms or no uniforms, they find a way
idk about you but my highschool's electronics policy was from the dark ages of windows 98, (they also had some windows 98 machines)
no electronics, NONE, anything that used the current of flowing electrons as it's lifeblood sreally, he was sending thall be immediately seized and imprisoned and only released on the signature of a parent. mind you i only just graduated in may, even though tablets and ipod touches, and iphones were ubiquitous in every day life by then
also their plagiarism policy is retarded, basically its up to the teacher to decide if she's bitchy enough to fail you, it doesn't even state what is plagiarism, just that you know what it is so we don't have to write it in this rulebook about rules, so if you are missing one citation out of an entire 20 page paper, instant F, very hard to negotiate with i'm right, your wrong teachers.
and some bitchy teacher tried to get me suspended for playing cards with my friend, i even showed her the school's own words on card games, she still wanted to send me to the principal, so i just said i would go on my own, and left
i swear 90% of the teachers at my highschool thought they were in an ivy league college instead of a broke as fuck public highschool in the middle of a cornfield[/QUOTE]
^ this. I almost got expelled for looking up 'Wikipedia' on Wikipedia, and I was chatting (Not really, he was sending the messages...) with my friend through steam. She looked about ready to kill me.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Anecdotes are not debating" - Megafan))[/highlight]
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In reply to the titular question: yes, especially the rules concerning attendance.
I definately think school rules should become fairer and unprejudiced. For example at my school in Scotland the Physical Education (Gym, PE, whatever) has no real uniform for boys apart from one rule - no football strips. For example, I've been told to turn my Scotland football strip inside out in order to take part in the class, despite it being the colour and flag of our country. What makes it worse is there are no rules against Rugby strips, my friend regularly wears his Scotland rugby strip and is not pulled up for it.
I can see that the school possibly tries to prevent "divisions" amongst pupils going by the football team they support - obviously Rangers FC and Celtic FC are the massive teams in Scotland with a very fierce rivalry - but I believe that at the school I go to - not posh but not scummy - the pupils are mature enough to put petty divides aside until gamedays. Is one pupil wearing a Rangers top going to cause trouble with another wearing a Celtic top? No.
Awhile ago, at the lunchtable, me and my friends were eating. Then someone else sits near us. He was a little kid, short for our age. He throws a pickle at my friend and we tell him to stop after he does it again. He does, but then picks up a pencil and trys to stab(he has weak arms) my other friend. My other friend grabs his arms to keep him from stabbing him. He lets go and the person raises his hand. Then the principal starts walking over. The kid says my friend tried to break his arm and everyone starts arguing. After that, the principal tells the kid he should move and the kid says my friend should move. The Assist. Principal comes and picks up(!) the kid, he is flailing now. Later, the Assit. principal comes over and says that the concequence for this table is that we need to raise our hands if something bothers us.
Anyways, I think the rules are to strict. Not just the rules but the punishments to.
When the teacher punishes the whole class for only a few people, it tells everyone that they get punished even if they are behaving. This then causes more people to disobey.
[QUOTE=shian;38166872]Making a student retain because of poor grades or results is an example. Not only does it make the student feel like shit because he can't keep up with his peers, and it may not help him to become better in whichever topics that he is weak in.
[/QUOTE]
How are you supposed to get better at a topic you are weak in, when in the higher grade it's getting harder and harder?
One of my friends had to repeat the 9th grade. By the time he was put into our group I couldn't stand him, he was a real anti-social asshole. But he knew he had to change something, so he stopped meeting his retard asshole mates and made real friends instead. He began to study and study and his marks became better and better. He started all over again and became the probably funniest person I know. He's going to a vocational school now to become a language interpreter/translator. Seriously, his english skills are fickin' awesome, he knows a bunch of different dialects.
[QUOTE=shian;38166872]I think its silly to have school uniforms, because its a waste of money. You aren't going to be wearing it for long, and as soon as school is over or you had graduated you won't be wearing it.
[/QUOTE]
Do you go to job interviews and say "Yeah I'm not gonna wear your, uniform, I'll be gone in a few years anyway!"
imo people need to stop whining about school uniforms. If you go to a school that forces uniform, in most cases once you go to college or wherever and can wear what you want, you realise it really isn't that big of a deal to pick your own clothes each day.
[editline]30th November 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=shian;38166872]
Suspending a student because of small mistakes is a pretty big waste of time, and it stops a student from knowing any important details. Its not the student's fault if he doesn't know about what you had asked him when he clearly missed the lesson.
[/QUOTE]
At my school if you got suspended it was always over something serious. If you fuck up and get suspended it's your fault for missing class. In a lot of cases if anything punishments seem like they need to be harsher, I don't want to go all "kids these days" but lots of school kids don't seem to give a crap about their education in general and just spend a lot of their time mucking about.
[QUOTE=matt.ant;38219215]Of course they do, most retail and fast food restaurants have uniforms with their logos on, especially in retail jobs where the employee has to actively try and sell products, so the customer knows who works there and who to go to.[/QUOTE]
Yes, I want to work at a fast food restraunt for the rest of my life, yes school, please teach me to do that, please.
ugh, i hate uniforms. ive been wearing them since 1st grade. sure, they're there to make the school look nice and orderly, prevent gang activity, and keep the sluts away. But i just feel as if all my individuality is stripped away. i think there shouldnt be uniforms, just stricter dress codes
I don't think its important to have uniforms necessarily, but it is important to at least enforce some restrictions on what is and isn't okay to wear. I don't think anyone should be parading around in crop tops and short shorts, regardless of gender, and obviously something that can't be enforced outside of school, however, in the context of a school environment, distracting clothes can be detrimental to learning.
Well I for one always enjoyed wearing uniforms at my school. The whole idea behind uniforms is to put all students on a level playing field on the basis that if student A were to wear expensive designer clothes, student B, coming from a poorer background might get jealous. And vice versa; student A could bully student B for not being as well maintained.
It happens all the time anyway, a uniform is just one less topic to deal with. I was never bullied at school, nor was I ever a bully - but there have been numerous occasions both in the news and through family that I've been told of a similar scenario as mentioned above.
I can't comment on current expense as I left school many years ago now, but back then they weren't horribly expensive.
I think a basic uniform i.e shirt and pants is fine but when students start getting suspended or get sent to detention because their socks are a colour/ shade other than white, grey, and black, that's going over the top.
One of the boons you'll find to a school having uniform is that it's simply one of the best forms of advertising a school can have.
Here in Australia, schools with too few pupils will often have less manpower assigned to them. Forced teacher transfers and the like aren't exactly what a school wants and they want plenty of staffing. For this reason, schools still need to advertise. Print advertisements for school and such often don't tell you about the school itself and generally you only notice these advertisements if you're looking for a school to enrol your child in.
But if you have every student in your school wear a recognizable uniform, suddenly you have several hundred walking billboards advertising your school to the world. For this reason, other rules can be implemented such as restrictions on accessories or hair dyes, to make the students advertising your school to appear well adjusted and the like.
My school has a large portion of its students travel by train, well over half the school, in fact. Due to students acting unruly on the train and leaving a bad impression on many onlookers, rules have been put in place against poor behaviour on the train platforms which are occasionally enforced by a teacher that happens to also travel home by train.
This is one of the reasons I think schools can be strict on seemingly "pointless" rules like uniform.
[QUOTE=shian;38166872]I think its silly to have school uniforms, because its a waste of money. You aren't going to be wearing it for long, and as soon as school is over or you had graduated you won't be wearing it.
Plus, being able to decide what you can wear should make you feel more comfortable, than to be forced to wear the same clothing everyday.
If a child dislike it, I don't think it'll be of any help when he's in a classroom.
And the punishments that follow for not following the school rules are rather strict and they don't seem to be productive under any circumstances, but rather make things worse.
Making a student retain because of poor grades or results is an example. Not only does it make the student feel like shit because he can't keep up with his peers, and it may not help him to become better in whichever topics that he is weak in.
Suspending a student because of small mistakes is a pretty big waste of time, and it stops a student from knowing any important details. Its not the student's fault if he doesn't know about what you had asked him when he clearly missed the lesson.
I'm sure that there are rules that should be gotten rid of a long time ago.[/QUOTE]
I agree, me (previously a private school student) had to wear a itchy long sleeved black blazzer in the middle of June
Also, i have seen that when ever we are learning something new, the teachers go around saying "ooo yes, this is what you will learn in grade 10 in a public school". But when I ask my friends that said they learnt that 3 months ago...
I don't mind wearing uniform much. But getting your own Hoody or jumper confiscated for 7 days because it's not uniform/dark colour/or has a logo on it is just plain wrong. If you aren't wearing the correct uniform you get a "uniform slip" and can be sent to pupil services to remove it. (For example, a long sleeved top under your school polo).
Your mobile phones will be confiscated for 7 days if it is seen or heard, unless a parent comes to collect it sooner.
Arriving late after 9.15AM gets you 1 hour after school, or arriving late (any amount of minutes) on 3 occasions in one week will also earn you an after school.
Smoking can earn you a letter home, then an hours afterschool, then on a 3rd occasion 1 days suspension. Even when 16, the legal smoking age. Tobacco is against school policy and is treated the same as possessing pornography or alcohol.
School rules should be the same as college rules... you are treated human, and if you don't want to be there, fine. You get kicked out. It obviously works alot more efficiently.
Our phone policy: [URL]http://www.chilternedge.oxon.sch.uk/downloads/Mobile Phones Policy 2012.pdf[/URL]
Our "Behaviour" policy: containing information on uniform, tobacco and behaviour in general.
[URL]http://www.chilternedge.oxon.sch.uk/downloads/policies/Behaviour and anti-bullying Policy - February 2012.pdf[/URL]
edit:
Oh yeah, forgot the rules on shoes and socks.
sigh
-snip-
Some countries don't want the students to wear school uniforms. However I believe (although it IS a big pain in the ass) that they're... not strictly needed, however they help shape the students.
Wearing a uniform might help in a way: it makes students more obedient to rules, so that when they find a job they know how to act. You can't be a lawyer and show up in court with jeans and a shirt saying "Do it like the Hulu guy" and plead in excuse of that "I only wear the suit for work, I don't use it outside so why the hell should I get one?"
You're also saying that once you get out from school you won't be needing it anymore. Are you implying that you shouldn't buy any kind of clothes because you grow and they don't fit you anymore? You need them [B]today[/B], don't think about the future.
Some children won't like it. But spoiling them isn't gonna help either. In life, it's hard to do what you like. Sometimes you just have to do it, even though you don't want. In a word: homeworks. You're going to justify lazy children because they didn't want to do something?
I agree however on how bad the result of not wearing a uniform [I]once[/I] gets you into trouble. What if it was dirty and it had to be washed? That implies the need to have more than 1 uniform. But I digress. Wearing uniforms is good. It also helps students understand that judging people from how they look is pointless, as they all look the same, it would be an offense against every student, even yourself.
[QUOTE]Wearing uniforms is good. It also helps students understand that judging people from how they look is pointless, as they all look the same, it would be an offense against every student, even yourself.[/QUOTE]
That's my school's one and only argument. I was listening to one of my classmates ask a teacher about the subject of school uniforms and the teacher agrees with him. Uniforms don't really help with individuality or self expression, that's why kids try to get piercings and the likes (those fucking ridiculous scoobie strings). Uniforms in general aren't cheap, why not wear something you can wear at home or down the street as well as school? Sure uniforms are neat and make a school look organised, but most kids agree that wearing what [U]you[/U] want would be better, as opposed to looking bland and similar to each other.
[QUOTE]Wearing a uniform might help in a way: it makes students more obedient to rules, so that when they find a job they know how to act. You can't be a lawyer and show up in court with jeans and a shirt saying "Do it like the Hulu guy" and plead in excuse of that "I only wear the suit for work, I don't use it outside so why the hell should I get one?"[/QUOTE]
Most people know what's appropriate and what's not, students are usually taught this at home by parents or at school by teachers, especially when work experience programs start (in Australia students take 2 weeks out of the year to go and do work experience and do interviews at a workplace)
My personal view is, uniforms should be abolished. I'm the only kid at school that wears leather work boots, i cop a bit of shit but in the end i really couldn't give 2 fucks, the same goes for my unusually long hair. The only reason i never went to a private school was because my hair was too long and it wasn't Christian enough because boys don't have long hair, dad left it up to me on what i wanted to do. I'm not cutting away 5-6 years of hair away, no fucking way. Not for god anyway.
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[highlight](User was banned for this post ("This is not debating" - Megafan))[/highlight]
The argument that everyone wearing the same uniform prevents bullying is astonishingly asinine. Why does it prevent bullying? Oh, because it prevents the bullies from terrorizing you about your appearance, right? How could a bully possibly target one student over another when everyone looks the same, right? But wait a minute, isn't there that stuff that grows out of your head, hair is it? Oh and the features on your face, those tend to be different than other people's, I mean, usually.
I guess the only logical solution is to make everyone have the same hairstyle, and to make plastic surgery a prerequisite to entering the school's premisses.
My point is, I don't care if everyone is wearing the same clothes, this doesn't prevent any bullying, at all, whatsoever, in any scenario, ever, and it never will, and that's why no one should ever use it as a basis or justification for why students should be required to wear uniforms. If a bully exists, which they always will, then they will find something to tease someone about. If it isn't your clothes it's going to be your hair, or your face, or the expression on your face, whatever, they will find something. I mean fuck, we're talking about bullies, sometimes people just want to torment others for no good reason, it's not like there's a set criteria that establishes bullies only target people that aren't incredibly beautiful, they can target anyone just for being smaller, or weaker, anyone that they can enforce their will over to make them feel better about themselves.
Girls looking pretty in skirts and long socks is a more logical reason to justify this rather than "we need uniforms because it prevents bullying".
[QUOTE=matt.ant;38211639]I disagree with this, it prepares kids for work. I have to wear a shirt and trousers to work and it's uncomfortable, a lot more expensive than a school uniform, and a pain to clean and iron every week. But that's life, you wear what you're told to wear.
School uniforms are there to make a school look good, like uniforms at work.
Although I do agree the cost of school uniforms is going up[/QUOTE]
"its preparing kids for work", LOL WHO the hell needs to prepare to wear clothes? to be honest, school uniforms just make the school look more like what it really is, a forced labor camp in which kids must learn what they're told to learn, or be punished. work when they're supposed to work, or be punished. Never heard of anything more communistic than this. I do agree kids need to be educated, but in a free place. do you people even know what they put in the lunches and water? no because you all are sheep to the government, they taught you that school is good for you, and thats what you believe? oppression.
[QUOTE=ewitwins;38218765]"Zero Tolerance" is the biggest pile of crap ever conceived by the educational establishment. It doesn't take into account extenuating circumstances, and more often than not screws over people that were in the wrong place at the wrong time, or were left holding the bag when someone gets busted. People get arrested and expelling for harmless pranks that would have been laughed off a good twenty years ago (hell, maybe even ten), and kids are scared to act naturally around teachers and administration because of this horse-shit.
It doesn't belong in the school system, let alone ANY system. There will always be extenuating circumstances, and not letting anyone look at the situation is a terrible policy.[/QUOTE]
This. Right here. Is why I hate school. At our school, if someone starts a fight with you, tries to beat the crap out of you, you just defend yourself and punch back, NOPE. They carry the both of you out in handcuffs. It's massive bullshit.
[editline]1st January 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=KillerSlash;38757371]I don't mind wearing uniform much. But getting your own Hoody or jumper confiscated for 7 days because it's not uniform/dark colour/or has a logo on it is just plain wrong. If you aren't wearing the correct uniform you get a "uniform slip" and can be sent to pupil services to remove it. (For example, a long sleeved top under your school polo).
Your mobile phones will be confiscated for 7 days if it is seen or heard, unless a parent comes to collect it sooner.
Arriving late after 9.15AM gets you 1 hour after school, or arriving late (any amount of minutes) on 3 occasions in one week will also earn you an after school.
Smoking can earn you a letter home, then an hours afterschool, then on a 3rd occasion 1 days suspension. Even when 16, the legal smoking age. Tobacco is against school policy and is treated the same as possessing pornography or alcohol.
School rules should be the same as college rules... you are treated human, and if you don't want to be there, fine. You get kicked out. It obviously works alot more efficiently.
Our phone policy: [URL]http://www.chilternedge.oxon.sch.uk/downloads/Mobile Phones Policy 2012.pdf[/URL]
Our "Behaviour" policy: containing information on uniform, tobacco and behaviour in general.
[URL]http://www.chilternedge.oxon.sch.uk/downloads/policies/Behaviour and anti-bullying Policy - February 2012.pdf[/URL]
edit:
Oh yeah, forgot the rules on shoes and socks.
sigh[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE](The office and staff accepts no
responsibility for loss, theft or damage of any phone, mp3 player or device brought into
school. They will, however, be stored in an envelope in a secure place)
[/QUOTE]
Is that saying that if the office loses your phone, you are fucked or is it if you lose it, it's not their fault?
[QUOTE=Duldef;39055092]This. Right here. Is why I hate school. At our school, if someone starts a fight with you, tries to beat the crap out of you, you just defend yourself and punch back, NOPE. They carry the both of you out in handcuffs. It's massive bullshit.
[editline]1st January 2013[/editline]
Is that saying that if the office loses your phone, you are fucked or is it if you lose it, it's not their fault?[/QUOTE]
Well, they took your property into their hands under their policy, if they mis-treat it then they're in the wrong.
I've seen countless items of clothing that were consfiscated get lost in their "safe keeping".
But what that means there, is that if you lose it, or damage it or some other pupil steals it, then it isn't their concern.
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