[QUOTE=mustachio;34622431]and also why humans have canines...[/QUOTE]
Like I posted before..
[QUOTE=TestECull;34598924]We also have canines, something herbivores don't. The fact that we have them is proof we're supposed to be eating meat in some quantity[/QUOTE]
Do your research. There are herbivore animals that have canines. Gorillas are herbivores and have canines. Same with hippos. Same with some deer species. same with some types of herbivore pandas. The whole canine argument is stupid and it's funny that people still use it in 2012
--
I would like to say, thank you everyone for expressing what you feel on the main topic of this debate. It was interesting reading what many different members of facepunch think of this topic.
[QUOTE=LCBADs;34617814]Their digestive systems can't process the necessary nutrients from plants alone, and food is too scarce in their natural environment to be that picky anyway - that's why they don't have a choice. Even if they could process everything they needed from plants, and there were enough plants around to do so, they're too stupid to make the conscious decision to avoid eating meat in the interest of protecting the rights of fellow animals. I thought this was rather clear. Sorry for miscommunicating.[/QUOTE]
"Animals are too stupid to make the decision to not kill other animals, which don't deserve to die."
I mean overpopulation of grazing animals and scarce flora distribution from over-grazing would not only cause massive amounts of CO2 to go unprocessed through photosynthesis and cause a rather large threat to suffocation if it happened on a very large global scale, but the amount of animals that overpopulate the lands would all die of starvation, and I mean a LOT of them would, and if they couldn't eat what meager meat was left on the corpses of their fallen through cannibalization and the flora population was so scarce or non-existent the world could face massive, if not total extinction of many species not only by location/biome but on a potential scale of species. The fact that we also require decomposers in our soil (such as maggots, worms and such) to convert the corpses of dead plants and animals to the essential components required to give plants nutrients from soil we'd also face a massive lack of fertile soil and in the end all plants would die out anyway as the corpses couldn't return the nutrients that they, the primary consumers, took from the producers in the first place.
TL;DR Earth would be fucked without meat eating beings, we'd degrade into a planet akin to mars, and depending on how long it took, a lot of fossil fuels and other carbon based structures would be created.
[QUOTE=The one that is;34626863]"Animals are too stupid to make the decision to not kill other animals, which don't deserve to die."
I mean overpopulation of grazing animals and scarce flora distribution from over-grazing would not only cause massive amounts of CO2 to go unprocessed through photosynthesis and cause a rather large threat to suffocation if it happened on a very large global scale, but the amount of animals that overpopulate the lands would all die of starvation, and I mean a LOT of them would, and if they couldn't eat what meager meat was left on the corpses of their fallen through cannibalization and the flora population was so scarce or non-existent the world could face massive, if not total extinction of many species not only by location/biome but on a potential scale of species. The fact that we also require decomposers in our soil (such as maggots, worms and such) to convert the corpses of dead plants and animals to the essential components required to give plants nutrients from soil we'd also face a massive lack of fertile soil and in the end all plants would die out anyway as the corpses couldn't return the nutrients that they, the primary consumers, took from the producers in the first place.
TL;DR Earth would be fucked without meat eating beings, we'd degrade into a planet akin to mars, and depending on how long it took, a lot of fossil fuels and other carbon based structures would be created.[/QUOTE]
well no shit sherlock
I don't know what you think I'm arguing for here, because I never said anything about whether animals deserve to die or not. Someone said that eating meat is unethical. You replied with "by your logic, carnivores are unethical too.". And I said that, because of differing circumstances, you can't apply the same standards of right and wrong to animals and humans. That's it. I wasn't taking a stance of the morality of human meat consumption, I was saying that your taken-to-its-"logical conclusion" act didn't function as a sound argument.
[QUOTE=Ryan Reefer;34614740]It's a futile attempt at seeming empathetic if you ask me. Me, I don't give a fuck about cows. Humans are the "master race" of nature, so fuck em'. They're delicious and stupid. Animals, not vegetarians. I've never tasted a vegetarian.[/QUOTE]
My girlfriend's a vegetarian, and believe me, they are delicious too.
She definitely isn't stupid, though.
[QUOTE=LCBADs;34627158]morality of human meat consumption[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure cannibalism isn't really going to apply to this argument.
I don't mind them, I really don't want to be the one who tells people how to live their life. However, some vegetarians/vegans (not saying 'all' or 'most') don't feel that way. I've had a few of them try to convince me how immoral eating meat is. The idea, I have no problem with.
Vegetarians are a pretty cool bunch, I just hate having to eat with them.
[QUOTE=The one that is;34628125]I'm pretty sure cannibalism isn't really going to apply to this argument.[/QUOTE]
funny
Humans are made to eat both meat and vegetables but if someone feels like only eating one of those it's only his concern. I'm only pissed by SOPA-level vegetarians who call you a murderer because you're eating a steak at a local restaurant.
Vegetarianism is perfectly fine.
Vegetarians are on the right track, I think ultimately they aim for a better process on animal mass production. At the end of the day, what really disgusts them is not so much that we eat animal products, but rather the conscious knowledge that somewhere, someplace an animal is being tortured to provide a meal. Many will argue that animals dont have the ability to think for themselves, but they do feel and the vast majority do endure a painful life, meaningless or not. In todays society , it unfortunately is a necessary evil required to feed the demand brought on by our social lifestyles. If vegetarians somehow realized that the way to influence others is not to preach to them, but rather develop ways of mass producing vegetables so that they be more accessible, they would come to realize the effectiveness of price penetration in regards to the average consumer. We all want to eat healthy, but when a bag of pork rinds or even a bag of pizza rolls is cheaper than the cheapest bundle of veggies, we got a problem. Im not vegetarian, but i know of its nutritional benefits, ive treated digestion problems with the natural fiber found in most, ive found fountains of natural energy without having to consume vast amounts of caffeine or sugar. At the end of the day, I think only eating vegetables will not be the best choice, a combination rather.. a balanced one at that, consiting of both a vegetable and a meat driven diet will the best option. We just need to find the balance, instead of shunning the efforts of those who try to make us healthier, let us support the notion of a healthier resolution we can all truely benefit from. In regards to those who are vegetarians, their lifestyle is great, I just recommend a stronger focus on the roots of your efforts, dont preach to others as naturally humans will listen with a deaf ear, rather find a way to beat the system that dominates our food creating process so that you may compete on a more national level with those who enslave us with everyday low prices.
I don't care for PETA and it's brainwashing falsified "facts"
"Vegetarians make better lovers" - Yeah that genital dryness from lack of nutrition is so sexy
But the vegetarians as people are fine.
[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;34634293]Yeah that genital dryness from lack of nutrition is so sexy
[/QUOTE]
you're aware that you can be healthy whether you eat meat or not
(if you're a westerner)
[QUOTE=Rad McCool;34586929]Don't you guys have any balls? How about standing up for your reasons to eat meat and not be afraid of having an argument?
You're just looking for reasons to piss on vegetarians.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Rad McCool;34586849]There really is no reason to eat meat other than the taste, since it's much more expensive than the vegetables that could easily replace the nutrient values of the meat.[/QUOTE]
This right here is why I dislike vegetarians. No reason for shit like this.
[QUOTE=Kung Fu Jew;34634579]This right here is why I dislike vegetarians. No reason for shit like this.[/QUOTE]
So you are going to let one vegetarian ruin what you think of the rest of them? Obviously there are going to be the ones who sit there saying the shit rad mccool says, but then there are others who just don't give a fuck. They are just humans that don't eat meat. What's the big deal?
Yes, I am. He is representing vegetarians, he should act right. I don't mind vegetarians, but my town is full of the type that rail you if they see you so much as eyeing a packet of beef jerky in the convenience store. I was dating a vegetarian once, but they didn't bug me if I gave into my carnivorous nature.
Have your beliefs, but don't push them onto me. I have better things to do than worry about how many families a sterile cow ended up feeding.
[QUOTE=Contag;34616445]I'm a vegetarian because I've killed meat-purposed farm animals with my bare hands for food and I'd prefer not to inflict that kind of suffering if I can help it.[/QUOTE]
What about animals that are slaughtered through humane methods? Killing farm animals with your "bare hands" will obviously inflict suffering on the animal...
[QUOTE=Contag;34634355]you're aware that you can be healthy whether you eat meat or not
(if you're a westerner)[/QUOTE]
I actually stole that statement from someone else with no personal back-up, but really. It's still a false claim on PETA's end.
[QUOTE=aerochug;34635301]What about animals that are slaughtered through humane methods? Killing farm animals with your "bare hands" will obviously inflict suffering on the animal...[/QUOTE]
There aren't humane methods of killing chickens, and using a bolt stunner to destroy brain matter while keeping the brain stem intact and then slashing the throat might not cause pain, but it's still rather violent. Not to mention the lives can be pretty wretched.
Not as bad as with chickens though. And free range doesn't really matter. Although bone breakage is lower (it's around 80% of chickens in a battery or barn system typically experience bone breakage), overall mortality is higher.
[editline]11th February 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;34635402]I actually stole that statement from someone else with no personal back-up, but really. It's still a false claim on PETA's end.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, PETA is the absolute worst
I'm convinced they're funded by livestock farmers. I can't explain how utterly stupid they are otherwise
How do vegetarians feel about artificially grown meat?
What arguments against meat will be around once a method to produce them without needing the animal is introduced?
I am a vegetarian and was born into a vegetarian family, brought up by vegetarian views, here is my outlook on things.
A cat can eat a mouse, why can't a person eat a cow?
Seriously don't give a shit if people eat meat, I wear leather shoes, my wallet is made of leather and furniture in my house is made of leather. If I was starving and lost, I wouldn't give a fuck if it were the last panda in the world of some shit, that motherfucking panda is going to be eaten.
Generally the whole artificial meat thing still counts as meat, its still flesh and if we were to eat that then you might as well eat the real thing.
Vegans should eat eggs and drink milk and stop whining about it.
[QUOTE=Inafinus :3;34636045]I am a vegetarian and was born into a vegetarian family, brought up by vegetarian views, here is my outlook on things.
A cat can eat a mouse, why can't a person eat a cow?
Seriously don't give a shit if people eat meat, I wear leather shoes, my wallet is made of leather and furniture in my house is made of leather. If I was starving and lost, I wouldn't give a fuck if it were the last panda in the world of some shit, that motherfucking panda is going to be eaten.
Generally the whole artificial meat thing still counts as meat, its still flesh and if we were to eat that then you might as well eat the real thing.
Vegans should eat eggs and drink milk and stop whining about it.[/QUOTE]
+ respect
[QUOTE=Inafinus :3;34636045]
Generally the whole artificial meat thing still counts as meat, its still flesh and if we were to eat that then you might as well eat the real thing.[/QUOTE]
no it's not you fucking idiot, fake meat is generally made from fungi mycoprotein, soy or yuba. what would the point of artifical meat be if it was still made out of flesh?
[QUOTE=DuncanFrost;34636278]no it's not you fucking idiot, fake meat is generally made from fungi mycoprotein, soy or yuba. what would the point of artifical meat be if it was still made out of flesh?[/QUOTE]
Mycoprotein tastes damn good too. Not exactly like chicken/meat/whatever, but it's good in it's own way. (Quorn is the main mycoprotein product I can think of.
[QUOTE=Inafinus :3;34636045]
Generally the whole artificial meat thing still counts as meat, its still flesh and if we were to eat that then you might as well eat the real thing.[/QUOTE]
are you for real?
for a vegetarian in a vegetarian family, you have little to no idea what the fuck you're on about
[editline]11th February 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;34635958]How do vegetarians feel about artificially grown meat?
What arguments against meat will be around once a method to produce them without needing the animal is introduced?[/QUOTE]
delicious
just need artificial intestines for that sausage *snap*
A few years ago i was at an outdoor centre with my school, and my groups instructor told me that he placed an animal's life over a humans. When asked for an example he replied that should there be a baby and a squirrel on a road when he was driving, and he had to run over one, it would be the baby.
I'm fine with vegetarians and vegans beliefs but I think this is just too far.
Also, he still ate meat.
[QUOTE=DJK;34636630]A few years ago i was at an outdoor centre with my school, and my groups instructor told me that he placed an animal's life over a humans. When asked for an example he replied that should there be a baby and a squirrel on a road when he was driving, and he had to run over one, it would be the baby.
I'm fine with vegetarians and vegans beliefs but I think this is just too far.
Also, he still ate meat.[/QUOTE]
You probably could have creatively told him to end his life.
[editline]10th February 2012[/editline]
I'm vegan, and there's a whole lot of stupid in this thread.
[editline]10th February 2012[/editline]
I personally don't really like vegetarians, either eat animal products or don't. I also find that most new vegetarians gain a lot of weight because they basically just go from healthy protein to carbs and cheese (pizza, pasta). A vegan or vegetarian diet is more prone to being unhealthy, but if you do it properly it's healthier. I also hate hearing about protein and vitamins. If you ever bring that argument up, you're completely ignorant about the subject.
And, as with anything, the stupid people stand out. Vegans and vegetarians aren't all obnoxious people, just like all cops don't abuse their power and Americans aren't stupid. It just seems that way, sometimes.
[QUOTE=Contag;34636444]are you for real?
for a vegetarian in a vegetarian family, you have little to no idea what the fuck you're on about
[editline]11th February 2012[/editline]
delicious
just need artificial intestines for that sausage *snap*[/QUOTE]
Then what the fuck is the point of calling it meat, its just a substitute like tofu or quorn. If it doesn't come from an animal, it ain't meat.
Oh and funnily enough, I don't know much about artificial meat because I'm a vegetarian and don't care about meat, what a twist in the plot.
[QUOTE=Inafinus :3;34638438]Then what the fuck is the point of calling it meat, its just a substitute like tofu or quorn. If it doesn't come from an animal, it ain't meat.
[/QUOTE]
The difference is that it is exactly the same as animal flesh. Quorn or Tofu are plant based substitutes, but the artificial meat is composed of animal cells. It is meat, but grown independently of an animal.
I think that if moral/ethical reasons are those for refusing to eat meat, then once artificial meat becomes cheap to produce and highly popular there can be a wide reduction in the number of livestock as their purpose (Having been bred for this purpose for the past few thousand years) will cease to be. The land can be then planted with grains such as wheat and the such instead of keeping large numbers of these animals.
The only reason I care for artificial meat actually is that if it replaces cattle altogether then it will be better for the environment because cows give off a shitload of methane gas
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