Film Theory: Neo ISN'T The One in The Matrix Trilogy [SPOILERS: HOLY SHIT IT'S TRUE]
71 replies, posted
was just about to post something about that. this guy summed it up well
[QUOTE]This really doesn't make any sense. Smith served as a catalyst for this specific One, Neo, to make an actual change by returning to the source and ending the war in doing so. That was his purpose. Neo was very much The One and was proven to be multiple times throughout the series. This video takes clear evidence and either drastically skews it to fit the theory or completely ignores it all together. Example: the video uses the quote of the Oracle telling Neo he's not The One. But they leave out the following line where she tells him "maybe in your next life". Neo dies at the end of the film and is reborn as The One in the Matrix. It all makes perfect sense.[/QUOTE]
and he doesn't literally have to say "IM THE ONE." visuals are an important part of the movie
he sees the Matrix for what it is at the end of the original when he's seeing all the green code. he's enlightened :I the whole thing, at least the first movie, is just a fancy "Plato's allegory of the cave" with Buddhist stuff thrown in there for good measure. he doubts himself throughout but in the end he is reborn. this is all just semantics imho, people have been coming up with these theories that "SMITH IS THE ONE!!!11" for years
i kinda wouldve preferred they had ended it at the first matrix but they actually wrapped it up pretty well. to me it's dumb as shit that people spend all their time getting hung up on stuff like this and don't look at the big picture. speculating is fun and all but i think he's just flat out wrong lol. people keep talking about how vague the plot is all the while leaving really important stuff out
seriously though all you need to watch is the first movie and you'll know the heart of the entire trilogy. it just goes around in a circle, except neo ends the cycle in the last movie. i sincerely believe this is what was intended and that this guy is just drumming up something that he thinks sounds cool while in the process throwing out everything the storytellers were trying to get across out the window. or was the whole thing supposed to be a twist years in the making where they're just like "hehe got ya it was smith all along." it doesn't make sense from so many different perspectives, so i don't think so. The Matrix is more than that
WE NEED TO GO DEEPER
[QUOTE=Rofl_copter;48691377]lol yea ok, gotta be rabid about it huh
the overarching theme was literally confirmed by the wachowskis and made sense since the first time i watched it. so everything said there just holds no meaning, but this guy jumbles stuff around and it all makes perfect sense?..
smith is the antethesis of neo. Smith represents the many (when he infects pretty much everyone) and Neo is the One, the only one who isn't infected by Smith. you can twist it any way you want but you have motif after motif confirming it. you can take lines and mix them up any way you want[/QUOTE]
as i said and as you decided to ignore: nothing about a free will theme conflicts with the concept of there being an anomaly/one
did u read the above posts? i dont really even know what ur saying anymore. its not just the concept, im saying smith is not the one. hes a catalyst for the one. smiths vs neo. MANY VS THE ONE. its interesting when smith talks about viruses since thats what ends up becoming. speaking of ignoring i just realized he says at the end of the 1st straight up "my name is Neo." the whole anogram thing bears considerable weight
[QUOTE=bitches;48692619]as i said and as you decided to ignore: nothing about a free will theme conflicts with the concept of there being an anomaly/one[/QUOTE]
i don't think he was talking about how the theme of having free will conflicted with story of the one. they're connected.
also it's weird how the video forgot to mention that agent smith was not the only program/machine who's capable of rebelling and independent thought. the merovingian and all his rogue programs consisting of "vampires"/"werewolves" and the twins were all old programs that rebelled against the system and refused to return to the source. the whole conflict between humans and machines started because one robot decided that it did not want to "die". the movies alongside the animatrix deal with the fact that people and machines can both feel and think and they need to find a peaceful way to co-exist. smith wasn't a super special machine simply because he decided to not do what he was told.
and what other explanation could there be for neo disabling machines in the real world other than the fact he was the one, assuming the real world was actually real?
neo screws around with the fabric of the matrix too. the sequels downplay it a lot but if you're looking at the first film as it's own thing, neo is simply not bound the laws of the matrix anymore. agents and people like trinity and morpheus are only able to bend it but neo just breaks them. he refuses to die and just comes back to life. he sees the matrix as it is and is able to predict smith's every move. he stops bullets in mid-air, deletes a program and flies away at the end. the later movies treats them as specific abilities but in the first movie, it's clear that he's the one and he could do whatever he wants to.
[QUOTE=thrawn2787;48691450]I'm calling bullshit on the Oracle lie. He leaves out a very important bit just after the Oracle says he isn't the one.
"Sorry kid. You got the gift but it looks like you're waiting for something."
"What?"
"[B]Your next life maybe[/B], who knows?"
Literally a foreshadowing of the end of the film where Neo dies, is reborn, and becomes the One. In the scope of the first film Neo is the one and Smith is just freaky. Maybe the Wachowskis did write Smith to be the one in the second two films and retcon the first, but certainly in the self contained first movie it is Neo.
For reference 2:40:
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMF2iyoCAh8[/media][/QUOTE]
Smith has parts of Neo in him so maybe that's his next life?
Among all other theories about Matrix plot I love this one the most. I'm going to rewatch all 3 movies now.
Gonna copy some of Reddit's comments, they explained it better than I ever could:
[quote][i]No explanation for why Neo could destroy sentinels in the real world?
The video just gets certain things wrong to make it's point. Neo was born in the matrix, he lived in the Matrix his whole life until he was taken out by Morpheus.
He even said used the fact that there was multiple Matrixes to say that Neo wasn't born inside but the fact that in every Matrix there was a Neo, literally looking the exact same puts a stupid hole in his theory. He also makes a random assumption that Smith was around in the previous Matrixes which is never proven, with the Merovingian's guard of Vampires and Werewolves making it seem unlikely that Smith existed before. Programs from the previous Matrix are destroyed except for ones which the Merovingian managed to weasel out. Smith didn't exist before he just knew of the previous versions.
His ending point about the Oracle's dangerous game was close but I think the actual thing that changed was when the Oracle gave Neo a cookie. The cookie worked how it does on your PC, it changed Neo's code slightly because the Oracle knew that Neo would infect Smith with it, turning him into the Virus. That is why Smith calls the Oracle mom.[/i]
and
[i]This really doesn't make any sense.
Smith served as a catalyst for this specific One, Neo, to make an actual change by returning to the source and ending the war in doing so. That was his purpose.
Neo was very much The One and was proven to be multiple times throughout the series. This video takes clear evidence and either drastically skews it to fit the theory or completely ignores it all together.
Example: the video uses the quote of the Oracle telling Neo he's not The One. But they leave out the following line where she tells him "maybe in your next life". Neo dies at the end of the film and is reborn as The One in the Matrix. It all makes perfect sense.[/i]
and
[i]I stopped at the born in the Matrix part. That is just a stupid way to understand what that was referring to. He also completely misunderstands what the Architect's speech meant. When he talks about the sum of a remainer yada yada yada...is that whatever percent of people would accept the matrix if given an unconscious choice but some small fraction wouldn't and eventually the growing number of rejecters could create the potential for disaster. The "One" serves as a control mechanism created by the machines to both guide those wo reject the matrix and ultimately to reset it once their number gets sufficiently large. The One wasn't the machines problem it was their solution.[/i][/quote]
TL;DR luckily it's just "theory", but he's plain wrong.
I'll keep this brief and hopefully convey my point all the same: it may be possible that both Neo and Agent Smith had become a form of "One"- both being anomalies- who can essentially accomplish the same task only by different means. Neo's path as the "One" brought an opportunity for order between machines and humanity; whereas Smith's path would cause chaos. It's possible they both represented two sides of the same coin, more or less.
An interesting theory none the less. I don't think it was the intention but definitely worthy of discussion.
[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;48693318]Gonna copy some of Reddit's comments, they explained it better than I ever could:
TL;DR luckily it's just "theory", but he's plain wrong.[/QUOTE]
[quote]The cookie worked how it does on your PC, it changed Neo's code slightly [/quote]
ROFL
This exactly illustrates how hilariously pathetic the whole "no he is WRONG" approach to all of this is.
Jeez, let people have their fun.
[QUOTE=Killuah;48693777]ROFL
This exactly illustrates how hilariously pathetic the whole "no he is WRONG" approach to all of this is.
Jeez, let people have their fun.[/QUOTE]
what's so pathetic about it? they're both ideas (the cookie that the oracle gave neo was pivotal in making him become the one/agent smith is actually the one) fans have been talking about for ages. in the end, it's just fans using harmless 'theories' to talk about the matrix.
Kinda off topic but I noticed recently that if you listen closely at the end of the third movie when neo's body is being carried away, you can hear a faint heartbeat
[QUOTE=kimchimafia;48693810]what's so pathetic about it? they're both ideas (the cookie that the oracle gave neo was pivotal in making him become the one/agent smith is actually the one) fans have been talking about for ages. in the end, it's just fans using harmless 'theories' to talk about the matrix.[/QUOTE]
yeah and clinging to hilariously minor stuff to somehow "prove" the interpretation they like the most
"LOOK! You are WRONG! It's the COOKIE!"
if that doesn't sound bizarre to you I don't know
[QUOTE=Killuah;48693818]yeah and clinging to hilariously minor stuff to somehow "prove" the interpretation they like the most
"LOOK! You are WRONG! It's the COOKIE!"
if that doesn't sound bizarre to you I don't know[/QUOTE]
both of those theories are pretty bizarre. one argues that the cookie given to neo was somehow pivotal in in his journey becoming the one and the other is about how neo was never the one. both of them are founded on stringing together bits and pieces of information throughout the film series and games that don't really fit together or seemingly goes against what the movies were showing.
[editline]16th September 2015[/editline]
besides, they were other good reasons posted about how the theory in the video was ignoring some of the more obvious facts in the series. you can't lump every argument that goes against the "agent smith is the one" theory with the cookie guy. some are way more reasonable than others. anyways, it's just harmless fan discussion.
Yeah but one relies on eating a cookie as central plot element.
lol the cookie thing is pretty dumb but it's at least marginally consistent with the universe. food in the matrix can be programmed to do specific things like how the marovingian made a cake that caused a woman to orgasm. still, it's a massive stretch saying that the entire plan made by the oracle relied on neo eating a cookie which implied the only reason neo was able to reject his "destiny" was due to some cookie rather than free will and love.
also neo being the one doesn't entirely rely on the cookie theory if at all. it's got the entire movie and game series to rely on. there's a lot more evidence to that than just "neo is the one because he ate a cookie".
[QUOTE=Killuah;48693777]ROFL
This exactly illustrates how hilariously pathetic the whole "no he is WRONG" approach to all of this is.
Jeez, let people have their fun.[/QUOTE]
That one little bit is just a crock of shit but literally everything else they're saying is proving him wrong. Cherry-picking will get you nowhere.
[QUOTE=Lordgeorge16;48694220]That one little bit is just a crock of shit but literally everything else they're saying is proving him wrong. Cherry-picking will get you nowhere.[/QUOTE]
It's a central element of the argumentative chain so whether or not the rest is God-Tier hard-as-concrete points or not is really not important.
And I don't want anywhere. Interpret it however you want. I'm just amused that people get so buthurt they even feel the need to take a cookies as evidence to win internet arguments.
And the meagreness of that is what I meant up there.
Why can't people be like "well Jee that's a fun way to see it haha never thought about that" and be done with it?
[QUOTE=Killuah;48693777]ROFL
This exactly illustrates how hilariously pathetic the whole "no he is WRONG" approach to all of this is.
Jeez, let people have their fun.[/QUOTE]
Haha yeah bro headcanon is fine!
Totally not insinuating you think know the creator's creation better than they do at all!
Skewing the truth is inherently a shitty thing to do. Doing it with stories like this subsequently skews their themes and meanings which is a VERY shitty thing to do. It's not just misinforming people but directly offending the creators themselves.
How about I find something you're deathly passionate about, cook up some crackpot theory that you know for is wrong/misinforming and then call you butthurt when you start complaining?
[QUOTE=Suitcase;48690851]Holy shit. If this is true, I have a new respect for the franchise (well, the latter two films, anyway) -- it'd be really nice to get some verification from the Watchowskis... that'd blow my mind, truly.[/QUOTE]
The plot of the first movie is pretty much entirely borrowed from The Invisibles. The Wachowskis didn't plan anything in advance, they just took stuff they liked from various sources and made a movie out of it.
There's a reason why most of their movies after The Matrix (including its sequels) were fucking terrible.
[editline]a[/editline]
Also headcanon and fan theories are fine as long as you treat them as such but when a video comes out and the guy is like WE WERE WRONG ALL ALONG HERE'S THE REAL DEAL YOU'LL THANK ME LATER it comes out as condescending and stupid.
[QUOTE=Killuah;48694495]Why can't people be like "well Jee that's a fun way to see it haha never thought about that" and be done with it?[/QUOTE]
well, the reason why they don't do that and just move on is because they're people with different opinions and feelings. fandoms always speculate and argue about "secret theories" or the true meaning behind whatever and imo, most of the time it's harmless and occasionally fun. if every fan theory was just met with "wow that's pretty cool, okay bye" then there would be no discussion or in-depth interactivity beyond that. people argue and discuss about their opinions on movies and etc... all day. how is that any different to what some matrix fans are doing? it's absolutely fine for fans to argue and disagree too.
also you keep bringing up the cookie bit like it was some nonsensical argument that was pulled out of nowhere because someone got too offended. but the cookie fan theory has been around ever since the first movie came out and it wasn't lazily created on the spot by one butthurt fan. i do agree though that the cookie thing seems like a lazy asspull out of context. like i said before, it's just people harmlessly arguing about things don't really matter again. i just don't see what's so bad about it.
[QUOTE=Killuah;48694495]
Why can't people be like "well Jee that's a fun way to see it haha never thought about that" and be done with it?[/QUOTE]
Probably because people go all "Death of the Author" and get bitchy when someone contradicts thier headcannon first.
[QUOTE=BigSmokeDawg;48689482]this guy's voice really grates on me after a few minutes[/QUOTE]
Tolarian Community College and Glass Reflection have the same kind of voice, so I've gotten used to it.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;48694726]The plot of the first movie is pretty much entirely borrowed from The Invisibles. The Wachowskis didn't plan anything in advance, they just took stuff they liked from various sources and made a movie out of it.
There's a reason why most of their movies after The Matrix (including its sequels) were fucking terrible.
[editline]a[/editline]
Also headcanon and fan theories are fine as long as you treat them as such but when a video comes out and the guy is like WE WERE WRONG ALL ALONG HERE'S THE REAL DEAL YOU'LL THANK ME LATER it comes out as condescending and stupid.[/QUOTE]
It's pretty much jimquisition all over again. The "WE WERE ALL WRONG" is part of his schtick
[QUOTE=Killuah;48694000]Yeah but one relies on eating a cookie as central plot element.[/QUOTE]
One argument said something dumb in an interesting comment to a video clearly meant to spark conversation and debate? Clearly everyone who disagrees with the central argument in the video is just an idiot.
Man, you sure showed him.
[QUOTE=Zang-Pog;48695483]Do you even care about what this thread is about or only about how people argue about things?[/QUOTE]
Mostly about how hard people are trying to argue that THEIR interpretation is right because cookie.
It's entertaining.
[editline]16th September 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;48696661]One argument said something dumb in an interesting comment to a video clearly meant to spark conversation and debate? Clearly everyone who disagrees with the central argument in the video is just an idiot.
Man, you sure showed him.[/QUOTE]
Not saying that?
It's just as valid as the other interprtations, just a bit silly in that one point. And that's what I'm pointing out.
Just like the OP video is made to look its own interpretation a bit silly.
It's good to look at the own interpretation with a bit of humour.
That's the fun in it. Not convincing others about the one TRUE interpretation. That can only be settled by asking the Wachowskis.
i feel like this series is due for remakes, or at least give them the george lucas remaster treatment.
or not
People are taking this way too seriously.
It's harmless fun, grow up :v:
[QUOTE=bitches;48690567]the whole video is about analysing who the anomaly is
you have made no contrary point except to claim that this is nonsensical without explaining why[/QUOTE]
What? Did you even read the post you've just quoted?
It's nonsensical to analyze the prophecy to figure out who the real anomaly is [B]because [/B]the prophecy is a lie told to the humans at the beginning of a cycle, in order to manipulate them to complete the cycle again.
[QUOTE=Tmaxx;48691330]This is now my head canon for my favorite series. I LOVE the matrix and this works really, really well.[/QUOTE]
I just rewatched all three movies and remembered a lot of shit i had forgotten about.
Yeah, nah, this "theory" doesn't work.
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