[QUOTE=Lachz0r;44505929]yeah man i'm sure everyone totally agrees with you that if we give oppressed minorities an inch they'll take a mile. go to bed.[/QUOTE]
Lol how was I wrong on that point again, the point that individuals often take harsher actions than actually required against people they perceive as having had done them wrong? I'm not wrong, you seemingly just don't understand what I'm attempting to convey, probably because you guys make a shitload of presumptions.
[QUOTE=be;44505941]Lol how was I wrong on that point again, the point that individuals often take harsher actions than actually required against people they perceive as having had done them wrong? I'm not wrong, you seemingly just don't understand what I'm attempting to convey, probably because you guys make a shitload of presumptions.[/QUOTE]
go to bed already (and don't come back please)
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;44505928]...[/QUOTE]
[video=youtube;5W51jjuLq8s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5W51jjuLq8s[/video]
[highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("Gimmick Alt" - Megafan))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Zyler;44505937]Of course you agree with what you said, I'd be worried you had a split personality disorder if you didn't. The point is WE don't agree with what you said.
I also know that you're now back-pedalling going all like "lol guys, what were we even talking about? Let's just forget about all this and how I got the shit verbally kicked out of me in a debate."[/QUOTE]
Um what is this thing that you guys disagree with me on? It couldn't be the belief shown in the above post because no one would deny such an obvious truth.
[QUOTE=be;44505760]Being blinded by anger isn't too uncommon, Suey Park for example is so blinded by the feelings of persecution (or wanting to make money by giving speeches) that she loses sight of her original goal of equality and begins to be seriously racist against white people.[/QUOTE]
and look at all the people she's killing
lol
you do realize that if for some reason "THE MINORITIES" rise up, the privileged could fuck them up in a second, right? stop believing this bogus "t-they might rebel" shit.
[QUOTE=be;44505941]Lol how was I wrong on that point again, the point that individuals often take harsher actions than actually required against people they perceive as having had done them wrong? I'm not wrong, you seemingly just don't understand what I'm attempting to convey, probably because you guys make a shitload of presumptions.[/QUOTE]
We don't understand what you're saying because you're not being explicit and nothing you say makes any sense, which doesn't make you any less wrong btw. You're attempting to defend some guy on the internet who generalising minorities for no reason with nothing except circumstantial evidence and your own interpretations. If you have a particular view on the issue just say it, maybe we can prove something to you and you'll learn something.
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;44505943]go to bed already (and don't come back please)[/QUOTE]
Come on I don't even think I argued poorly, I really don't get it, what part of my arguments was wrong to the point that you just want me to LEAVE? Is it the fact that I disagree with you alone? Fuck it, this is pointless, arguing on Facepunch is such an embarassment. Just like before, if you want to continue this then you should PM me, it would be much more productive.
[editline]10th April 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;44505953]and look at all the people she's killing
lol
you do realize that if for some reason "THE MINORITIES" rise up, the privileged could fuck them up in a second, right? stop believing this bogus "t-they might rebel" shit.[/QUOTE]
I wish you would at least KNOW my opinion :/
[QUOTE=be;44505955][b]Come on I don't even think I argued poorly,[/b] I really don't get it, what part of my arguments was wrong to the point that you just want me to LEAVE? Is it the fact that I disagree with you alone? Fuck it, this is pointless, arguing on Facepunch is such an embarassment. Just like before, if you want to continue this then you should PM me, it would be much more productive.[/QUOTE]
you literally said that minorities would be more powerful than the majority and would be ~evil~ and you mentioned [I]avatar[/I] unironically
[QUOTE=be;44505955]Come on I don't even think I argued poorly, I really don't get it, what part of my arguments was wrong to the point that you just want me to LEAVE? Is it the fact that I disagree with you alone? Fuck it, this is pointless, arguing on Facepunch is such an embarassment. Just like before, if you want to continue this then you should PM me, it would be much more productive.[/QUOTE]
I'm not going to PM you because I don't want to (IMO I actually enjoy arguing with people on facepunch because I learn from it). The main reason you're being told to just leave the thread is that you're not arguing properly. When someone asks you a question, you answer it instead of just changing the question. When someone tells you what you said was wrong, you respond to exactly what they said instead of cherry picking something you said out of context in an effort to make yourself sound reasonable.
[QUOTE]I wish you would at least KNOW my opinion :/[/QUOTE]
Specifically, in less than 100 words and in 1 post, what is your EXACT opinion?
[QUOTE=be;44505955]Come on I don't even think I argued poorly, I really don't get it, what part of my arguments was wrong to the point that you just want me to LEAVE? Is it the fact that I disagree with you alone? Fuck it, this is pointless, arguing on Facepunch is such an embarassment. Just like before, if you want to continue this then you should PM me, it would be much more productive.
[editline]10th April 2014[/editline]
I wish you would at least KNOW my opinion :/[/QUOTE]
i honestly have no idea what it is because you're dancing around issues like a ballerina and you have a wishy-washy stance on everything and super poor arguments.
[editline]10th April 2014[/editline]
look, i'm not trying to flame you, be, but you should read up on stuff and talk to people who aren't angry forum members before you make your opinions. literally google "modern feminism" or follow some blogs or something then come back. that's what i did.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;44505974]i honestly have no idea what it is because you're dancing around issues like a ballerina and you have a wishy-washy stance on everything and super poor arguments.[/QUOTE]
No, I haven't and no, I don't. I have addressed every question that has been directed at me. [url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1384096&p=44505723&viewfull=1#post44505723[/url]
My opinion is right there, any inability to argue is because of the fact that I have to argue with multiple people who aren't coordinated at all.\
I would like to say that I don't even feel tired which is why it's so hard for me to leave (plus it's hard to leave anyway since I've gotten nothing but shit treatment this whole time).
[QUOTE=be;44505989]No, I haven't and no, I don't. I have addressed every question that has been directed at me. [url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1384096&p=44505723&viewfull=1#post44505723[/url]
My opinion is right there, any inability to argue is because of the fact that I have to argue with multiple people who aren't coordinated at all.[/QUOTE]
i should really stop trying to reach out to people and give honest advice if these are the kind of responses i'm going to get
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;44505999]i should really stop trying to reach out to people and give honest advice if these are the kind of responses i'm going to get[/QUOTE]
Oh I'm sorry I offended you by citing myself and disagreeing with your thoughts on me.
[QUOTE=be;44505989]No, I haven't and no, I don't. I have addressed every question that has been directed at me. [url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1384096&p=44505723&viewfull=1#post44505723[/url]
My opinion is right there, any inability to argue is because of the fact that I have to argue with multiple people who aren't coordinated at all.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]I'm speaking about what an individual believes, what we are discussing here (frustrated minority taking out frustration on its oppressor) is (at least to me) obviously a real thing in terms of individual psychology. People DO take out their frustration on people in general, especially those who they see as who does them wrong, conspiracy theorists are a good example of such people. As a movement there aren't many examples of such a thing because it wouldn't be allowed to happen, but with free speech all these viewpoints are allowed to flourish.[/QUOTE]
Individual viewpoints are all well and good, specifically they allow us to enable the flow of new ideas and illicit positive change in our society. This doesn't mean that every single viewpoint is therefore sacred. Everyone deserves to have a voice, but some ideas are just plain and blatantly god awful. It's our ability to pick and choose good ideas and block out bad ones that allows us to move forward as a society, not having rhetoric and superstition crammed down our throats.
[QUOTE=be;44506005]Oh I'm sorry I offended you by citing myself and disagreeing with your thoughts on me.[/QUOTE]
be, please go to bed. There will be plenty of time to think on this topic for another day. Go to bed.
[QUOTE=Ramen;44506014]be, please go to bed. There will be plenty of time to think on this topic for another day. Go to bed.[/QUOTE]
I don't think it's fair that I get constantly slammed and I'm still treated like shit, I don't get any respect here and I'm not treated like an equal viewpoint even though I definitely am. I'm not upset, really, it's just frustrating because it's a display of disgusting attributes and attitudes that the perpetrators don't even seem to realize are wrong. All this makes it difficult to just leave the discussion because of the blue balls this thread has given me (i get off to good discussions)
[QUOTE=be;44506021]I don't think it's fair that I get constantly slammed and I'm still treated like shit, I don't get any respect here and I'm not treated like an equal viewpoint even though I definitely am. I'm not upset, really, it's just frustrating because it's a display of disgusting attributes and attitudes that the perpetrators don't even seem to realize are wrong.[/QUOTE]
We get it, people disagree with you. That doesn't mean they're treating you badly, people aren't going to think highly of you if you argue with everything they say.
You're also straying from the main topic by going on this tangent, have you read my previous post?
[QUOTE=Zyler;44506029]We get it, people disagree with you. That doesn't mean they're treating you badly, people aren't going to think highly of you if you argue with everything they say.
You're also straying from the main topic by going on this tangent, have you read my previous post?[/QUOTE]
Yes, and I think that saying some viewpoints are somehow objective inferior is dangerous and pretty unfair when it comes to allowing discussion. I can sympathize with the view that some ideas are just plain terrible but you have to recognize that you only believe that because of your core values and that you could never really say that a viewpoint is inferior based on any objective measurement.
[editline]10th April 2014[/editline]
Look, I know I'm just embarrassing myself to you people because "haha look he disagrees with my beliefs on feminism, LOL HE SHOULD JUST LEAVE" but throughout this whole discussion I have given everyone's opinions are fair chance instead of taking part in the strategy of just sitting back in the smug assurance that everyone around you (in the thread) agrees with you.
I know what I'm saying will have some value to somebody, but unfortunately it seems they're too scared to fight against 99% of the thread.
[QUOTE=be;44506040]Yes, and I think that saying some viewpoints are somehow objective inferior is dangerous and pretty unfair when it comes to allowing discussion. I can sympathize with the view that some ideas are just plain terrible but you have to recognize that you only believe that because of your core values and that you could never really say that a viewpoint is inferior based on any objective measurement.[/QUOTE]
Read:
[QUOTE]Individual viewpoints are all well and good, specifically they allow us to enable the flow of new ideas and illicit positive change in our society. This doesn't mean that every single viewpoint is therefore sacred. Everyone deserves to have a voice, but some ideas are just plain and blatantly god awful. It's our ability to pick and choose good ideas and block out bad ones that allows us to move forward as a society, not having rhetoric and superstition crammed down our throats.[/QUOTE]
Some view points can be objectively worse than others when the facts they present are incorrect or they generalise a large number of people. We can have good and bad ideas and good and bad viewpoints.
That's what your argument really is when you're defending thunderfoot right? That opinions can't objectively be bad, but the truth is they can be if they rely on incorrect or outdated facts and information or use sweeping generalisations that don't prove anything. They don't benefit society or provoke useful discussion, as is proven by the fact that this thread has been nothing but pointless arguments since its conception.
Your opinion isn't some absolute and sacred truth that everyone must adhere to, it is a single viewpoint, one of many expressed by millions of people all over the internet.
[QUOTE=Zyler;44506062]Read:
Some view points can be objectively worse than others when the facts they present are incorrect or they generalise a large number of people. We can have good and bad ideas and good and bad viewpoints.
That's what your argument really is when you're defending thunderfoot right? That opinions can't objectively be bad, but the truth is they can be if they rely on incorrect or outdated facts and information or use sweeping generalisations that don't prove anything. They don't benefit society or provoke useful discussion, as is proven by the fact that this thread has been nothing but pointless arguments since its conception.
Your opinion isn't some absolute and sacred truth that everyone must adhere to, it is a single viewpoint, one of many expressed by millions of people all over the internet.[/QUOTE]
Is something really a viewpoint if it isn't even true? I mean isn't that just like...a myth, or a sham? I don't think we should consider things based on lies to be in the same category as legitimate beliefs and opinions (such as what we should do with tax money). My point is that legitimate viewpoints can't be considered in an objective fashion because the ways in which we come to conclusions on these viewpoints is based on what we believe personally, something that is very much based on subjective feelings, hence legitimate viewpoints can't be said to be objectively inferior or superior. If a viewpoint uses false information then it would be objectively inferior to a one that uses true information, but like I said the fact that it uses false information makes it quite different from legitimate viewpoints
I've never said my opinion is special, please show me where I have done that. I'm not saying that it sucks that people don't agree with me, I'm saying that it sucks [I]how[/I] people are disagreeing with me.
[QUOTE=Zyler;44506062]Read:
Some view points can be objectively worse than others when the facts they present are incorrect or they generalise a large number of people. We can have good and bad ideas and good and bad viewpoints.
That's what your argument really is when you're defending thunderfoot right? That opinions can't objectively be bad, but the truth is they can be if they rely on incorrect or outdated facts and information or use sweeping generalisations that don't prove anything. They don't benefit society or provoke useful discussion, as is proven by the fact that this thread has been nothing but pointless arguments since its conception.
Your opinion isn't some absolute and sacred truth that everyone must adhere to, it is a single viewpoint, one of many expressed by millions of people all over the internet.[/QUOTE]
He really does a bad job a pointing out that he doesn't include all feminists.
but i'm sure he doesn't think that ALL feminists are poisoning everything.
Just the retard extremist minority.
I'm pretty sure that serious feminists don't even bother with tumbler, atheism+ etc
He really needs to express that more in his videos.
[QUOTE=be;44506092]Is something really a viewpoint if it isn't even true? I mean isn't that just like...a myth, or a sham? I don't think we should consider things based on lies to be in the same category as legitimate beliefs and opinions (such as what we should do with tax money).
I've never said my opinion is special, please show me where I have done that. I'm not saying that it sucks that people don't agree with me, I'm saying that it sucks [I]how[/I] people are disagreeing with me.[/QUOTE]
I don't know how to explain this in a way you'll agree with. Legitimate beliefs and opinions can be founded on lies and misinformation, it's just what people believe in.
[QUOTE=Shreddinger;44506097]He really does a bad job a pointing out that he doesn't include all feminists.
but i'm sure he doesn't think that ALL feminists are poisoning everything.
Just the retard extremist minority.
I'm pretty sure that serious feminists don't even bother with tumbler, atheism+ etc
He really needs to express that more in his videos.[/QUOTE]
It's blatant clickbait in an attempt to stir up trouble so he can get more views.
[QUOTE=Zyler;44506109]I don't know how to explain this when a way you'll agree with. Legitimate beliefs and opinions can be founded on lies and misinformation, it's just what people believe in.[/QUOTE]
In my mind a belief and/or opinion is not legitimate if the evidence that supports it is not true, so what you're saying is, to me, impossible.
[QUOTE=Zyler;44506109]It's blatant clickbait in an attempt to stir up trouble so he can get more views.[/QUOTE]
Yeah I agree, I'll just change the title.
[QUOTE=be;44506141]In my mind a belief and/or opinion is not legitimate if the evidence that supports it is not true, so what you're saying is, to me, impossible.[/QUOTE]
So people aren't allowed to believe in religion or even (potentially) atheism or anything other than complete and total agnosticism because they aren't allowed to believe in something that cannot be completely and without a doubt proven to be true?
Isn't it at all possible that people can choose to believe in something because it makes sense to them and not everyone else in the entire world?
[QUOTE=Shreddinger;44506145]Yeah I agree, I'll just change the title.[/QUOTE]
I meant the title of thunderfoot's video.
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;44505943]go to bed already (and don't come back please)[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Ramen;44506014]be, please go to bed. There will be plenty of time to think on this topic for another day. Go to bed.[/QUOTE]
[video=youtube;2HJxya0CWco]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HJxya0CWco[/video]
[highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("Gimmick" - Craptasket))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=beV2;44506157][video=youtube;2HJxya0CWco]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HJxya0CWco[/video][/QUOTE]
Okay, I'm sure this is an alt thats trying to get him banned.
[QUOTE=be;44506141]In my mind a belief and/or opinion is not legitimate if the evidence that supports it is not true, so what you're saying is, to me, impossible.[/QUOTE] Why would you say you're going to bed and then keep going?
[QUOTE=Zyler;44506154]So people aren't allowed to believe in religion or even (potentially) atheism or anything other than complete and total agnosticism because they aren't allowed to believe in something that cannot be completely and without a doubt proven to be true?
Isn't it at all possible that people can choose to believe in something because it makes sense to them and not everyone else in the entire world?
I meant the title of thunderfoot's video.[/QUOTE]
You can't 'believe' in atheism, because atheism is a lack of a belief.
as long as your opinion isn't backed by evidence it's not a legitimate opinion.
it doesn't mean that you can't hold it, it's just not legitimate.
[QUOTE=Zyler;44506154]So people aren't allowed to believe in religion or even (potentially) atheism or anything other than complete and total agnosticism because they aren't allowed to believe in something that cannot be completely and without a doubt proven to be true?
Isn't it at all possible that people can choose to believe in something because it makes sense to them and not everyone else in the entire world?
I meant the title of thunderfoot's video.[/QUOTE]
Yeah but belief isn't an objective truth. Objective truths are what happens in reality, and having support from reality is vital in proving a point. When a viewpoint is based on belief then it is not actually based on reality and therefore has the same weight as any random guess. In this way I suppose it hinges on someone's opinion of the concept of the burden of proof, if you believe that all claims need to be proven true/accurate based on evidentiary support then you can easily justify an atheist's standpoint, but if you believe that claims don't need to be proven then you can justify being religious. In my mind it is clear which stance on the burden of proof is optimal, but that opens a whole different can of worms.
I see a gimmick being created in my honor as an accomplishment, truly.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
