[img]http://cdn.synthtopia.com/content/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/keystudio49i-callout.jpg[/img]
I just wanted to know if there was something like this, but cheaper. I know about midi etc. its just that i didn't realise it was that unusual or such an odd request.
[QUOTE=bigdoggie;27902304]Actually, I've found the Roland Edirol PCR-1, it's a midi controller with a built in USB audio interface (24bit/96KHz), and is quite cheap, around the $80 mark. However it's from 2004 (not that old actually) and uses RCA instead of TRS/TS.
They probably have a model with more keys or even a more recent keyboard. It looks a bit dodgy though, judging by the pics. You know, that cheap plastic feel.[/QUOTE]
If it's pro audio equipment and it's only $80 it's probably not up to scratch. Esepcially if it's a controller AND an interface for $80.
[editline]7th February 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=CheeserCrice;27918910]I just wanted to know if there was something like this, but cheaper. I know about midi etc. its just that i didn't realise it was that unusual or such an odd request.[/QUOTE]
You'll get way better bang/buck ratio if you buy separate units.
[QUOTE=KmartSqrl;27923889]If it's pro audio equipment and it's only $80 it's probably not up to scratch. Esepcially if it's a controller AND an interface for $80.
[editline]7th February 2011[/editline]
You'll get way better bang/buck ratio if you buy separate units.[/QUOTE]
I'd trust his word. He knew what he was talking about years ago when I was still putting reverb on my master channel :downs:
[QUOTE=Silent-Bob;27927564]I'd trust his word. He knew what he was talking about years ago when I was still putting reverb on my master channel :downs:[/QUOTE]
That's actually pretty common to give make illusion that all the instruments were played in the same place. Having all these different sounds with different reverbs can make everything sound isolated. Ideally you'd want more of a natural reverb and record everything in the same room, but there are a ton of challenges with doing that when it comes to getting a good mix.
It'll also add a consistent thickness to the entire mix. There are more reasons as to why someone would do it, but it is all dependent on the mix. The amount added usually isn't at all a lot, it is usually used more as a subtle effect. Ideally, you'd not want to have to add it, but with close micing and great recording rooms being so popular it is far easier just to add synthetic reverb on the master. This thread is orientated a bit more towards electronic music, so what I said about making everything sound like it is in the same room may apply less (I am unsure). And just to iterate myself, it all depends on the track, you shouldn't add it unless you think it needs it for a certain reason.
Depends on the genre too.
I'm going to suggest it is more mix depedant. The question shouldn't be "is this process common with this genre" it should instead be "would applying this help this particular track". You're suggesting that certain genres are more likely to need it and I'll agree, but any mixing technique shouldn't be dependent upon the genre. Perhaps that is just my perspective though.
Yeah I didn't mean it that way. I meant there are certain techniques used frequently in specific genres. I.e. generally in hip-hop / electronica you wouldn't put reverb on the master because the focal points of those genre's are upfront, in your face percussion.
[QUOTE=KmartSqrl;27923889]If it's pro audio equipment and it's only $80 it's probably not up to scratch. Esepcially if it's a controller AND an interface for $80.
[/QUOTE]
Roland's Edirol line is definitely not pro audio equipment.
[QUOTE=Pepin;27929495]That's actually pretty common to give make illusion that all the instruments were played in the same place. Having all these different sounds with different reverbs can make everything sound isolated. Ideally you'd want more of a natural reverb and record everything in the same room, but there are a ton of challenges with doing that when it comes to getting a good mix.
It'll also add a consistent thickness to the entire mix. There are more reasons as to why someone would do it, but it is all dependent on the mix. The amount added usually isn't at all a lot, it is usually used more as a subtle effect. Ideally, you'd not want to have to add it, but with close micing and great recording rooms being so popular it is far easier just to add synthetic reverb on the master. This thread is orientated a bit more towards electronic music, so what I said about making everything sound like it is in the same room may apply less (I am unsure). And just to iterate myself, it all depends on the track, you shouldn't add it unless you think it needs it for a certain reason.[/QUOTE]
I was making electronic music, and this was quite a few years ago in FL Studios (I've long since moved to Reason, I can't stand to even look at FL Studios anymore). I knew what reverb did, but I didn't know the importance of equipping each individual sound with its own reverb, and I was muddying up my mix so bad with it that I had a really hard time even equalizing the low end enough to hear the treble. When I was asking Facepunch to help me with advice on mastering, someone asked what I had on my master channel, and KmartSqrl laid into me when I said that I put reverb on it. Looking back, I would have done the same thing, and I even laugh when I think about it.
I can see your point about adding it now that I know a lot more about what I'm doing, and I can see how it would be fitting for certain tracks in subtle amounts, but I really had it cranked up there as far as wet levels go.
[QUOTE=Silent-Bob;27938768]I was making electronic music, and this was quite a few years ago in FL Studios (I've long since moved to Reason, I can't stand to even look at FL Studios anymore). I knew what reverb did, but I didn't know the importance of equipping each individual sound with its own reverb, and I was muddying up my mix so bad with it that I had a really hard time even equalizing the low end enough to hear the treble. When I was asking Facepunch to help me with advice on mastering, someone asked what I had on my master channel, and KmartSqrl laid into me when I said that I put reverb on it. Looking back, I would have done the same thing, and I even laugh when I think about it.
I can see your point about adding it now that I know a lot more about what I'm doing, and I can see how it would be fitting for certain tracks in subtle amounts, but I really had it cranked up there as far as wet levels go.[/QUOTE]
Just out of curiosity, why can't you stand FL Studio?
I personally think it's a fairly good DAW with surprising capabilities. I'd take it over Reason anyday, since the lack of VSTs and unnecessary complexity just annoys me.
[QUOTE=Croix;27967507]Just out of curiosity, why can't you stand FL Studio?
I personally think it's a fairly good DAW with surprising capabilities. I'd take it over Reason anyday, since the lack of VSTs and [B]unnecessary complexity[/B] just annoys me.[/QUOTE]
This made me lol. Reason is actually much less complex than FL Studios when you learn your way around it, it's designed and geared much more towards work flow and sound design. It's also built to resemble a real synth rack. As for the lack of VSTs, that was something that annoyed me at first until I learned that the synths included with the program are SO FUCKING POWERFUL AND FLEXIBLE that you don't even need VSTs. You can literally create ANY sound with the included instruments, and the routing techniques are ingenious (especially in Thor, a sound designer's wet dream realized). FL Studios puts a major amount of stress on your CPU, but Reason barely even phased my old Pentium 4 2.0ghz processor (though I have a quad core now). Sound crackling and glitches are so rare because Reason's sound engine is so optimized (seeing as Propellerheads know what they're doing since they've been in the business for [B]years[/B]). I can create massive and complex instruments, route them wherever I want as much as I want, and not have to worry about any performance issues. Here's pad I recently made in Reason:
[IMG]http://i54.tinypic.com/24qsp43.png[/IMG]
Looks big and scary, right? It's not. When you build instruments in Reason, layering and routing become second nature to you. Another great feature is Combinators. How the hell do I find my way around all of my music with that behemoth of a mess? Just build the instrument in a Combinator. Here's a song I'm working on now with many instruments that are just as, if not more, complex than my pad.
[IMG]http://i56.tinypic.com/f3gw08.png[/IMG]
Like I said before, it may look scary, but it's not. Once you learn your way about Reason, you begin to realize what a mess FL Studios is, and how ingenious of a program Reason is. You think that it has unnecessary complexity, but you're so wrong that it hurts. I've been using Reason for about 2 years now, and I don't miss VSTs one bit. I love not having to scour around the internet to find new VSTs that have the right sound for me when I can just reproduce or create any sound I want from scratch, or even tweak something myself or someone else has created.
I challenge you to try Reason, get the hang of things, and build some sounds in it. I promise that you will NOT go back to FL Studios. In fact, I had another Facepunch musician, [URL="http://www.facepunch.com/members/90100-Natrox"]Natrox[/URL], switch to Reason, and I can quote him on saying that he will never look back.
Don't judge a book by its cover. Moving away from FL Studios was probably one of the best things to happen with me as far as music is concerned.
I've switched from FL Studio to Reason, and I like it better than FL Studio. It's so much better to work with.
the best thing to happen to me as far as music is concerned is selecting all my vst's and pressing shift-delete
[QUOTE=thisispain;27977985]the best thing to happen to me as far as music is concerned is selecting all my vst's and pressing shift-delete[/QUOTE]
I'm with you there, 100%. I feel like VSTs are obsolete when there's such better technology and software out.
Like? I'm a bit lost on this, because I don't understand the extreme dislike for VSTi's.
[QUOTE=thisispain;27977985]the best thing to happen to me as far as music is concerned is selecting all my vst's and pressing shift-delete[/QUOTE]
Do you mean VSTis or something?
sameshit.
[QUOTE=Pal13;27987912]sameshit.[/QUOTE]
VST means Virtual Studio Technology, and usually refers to VSTi and VSTe hosts, like Reason.
A VSTi is a Virtual Studio Technology Instrument, or virtual instrument.
I'm just making sure I'm on the same track here.
[QUOTE=bigdoggie;27988373]VST means Virtual Studio Technology, and usually refers to VSTi and VSTe hosts, like Reason.
A VSTi is a Virtual Studio Technology Instrument, or virtual instrument.
I'm just making sure I'm on the same track here.[/QUOTE]
Wut, everyone uses VST to refer to any plugin - effect or instrument. VSTi is correct but unnecessary, the same way people call acoustic and electric guitars, just guitars.
[QUOTE=bigdoggie;27988373]VST means Virtual Studio Technology, and usually refers to VSTi and VSTe hosts, like Reason.
A VSTi is a Virtual Studio Technology Instrument, or virtual instrument.
I'm just making sure I'm on the same track here.[/QUOTE]
Reason can't host VST's. That's why I don't like it, they add nice diversity.
Also, I have inface TRIED reason quite a bit, and I don't even use Fl Studio anymore, I use Live these days. I'm just saying that Fl Studio is at least as good as Reason in my opinion. I mean, maybe Reason works better, but I just don't like the workflow.
[QUOTE=Pal13;27988535]Wut, everyone uses VST to refer to any plugin - effect or instrument. VSTi is correct but unnecessary, the same way people call acoustic and electric guitars, just guitars.[/QUOTE]
I just like being precise with everything, don't mind me.
[QUOTE=Croix;27988611]Reason can't host VST's.[/QUOTE]
Really? Always thought it could.
[QUOTE=Croix;27988611]Reason can't host VST's. That's why I don't like it, they add nice diversity.
Also, I have inface TRIED reason quite a bit, and I don't even use Fl Studio anymore, I use Live these days. I'm just saying that Fl Studio is at least as good as Reason in my opinion. I mean, maybe Reason works better, but I just don't like the workflow.[/QUOTE]
Meh, you can't really compare daws like that. They all have strengths, weaknesses, qualities, etc. Reason not hosting VST's isn't a problem imo. I've never used Reason to sequence stuff, and most people I know don't. They ReWire it to something else so the VST problem is gone. Strengths of Reason are: unique synths and superior cable routing.
[QUOTE=Pal13;27988758]Meh, you can't really compare daws like that. They all have strengths, weaknesses, qualities, etc. Reason not hosting VST's isn't a problem imo. I've never used Reason to sequence stuff, and most people I know don't. They ReWire it to something else so the VST problem is gone. Strengths of Reason are: unique synths and superior cable routing.[/QUOTE]
Yeah but comparing DAWs is fun, seeing other peoples opinions and such.
No harm is done anyway.
I used to use FL way back when. Switched to Logic when I became a Macfag. Now I'm on Live... I'll never look back.
[QUOTE=Zergly;27995137]I used to use FL way back when. Switched to Logic when I became a Macfag. Now I'm on Live... I'll never look back.[/QUOTE]
Yeah live is my favorite right now. It's easy to learn if you know FL, they have lots of similar workflow options and such. I do miss the movable windows, and how you could really easily just VSTs everywhere and work with them all at the same time, but Live does work slightly better for me.
I've always been curious about ReWiring Reason into another DAW such as Cubase or Live. I'm saving up to buy the Reason 5 and Record 1.5 bundle, it seems like it really addresses the issues people have with the sequencer. That, and everyone says that Record has a more crisp sound to it as far as high ends go.
[QUOTE=Silent-Bob;27998517]I've always been curious about ReWiring Reason into another DAW such as Cubase or Live. I'm saving up to buy the Reason 5 and Record 1.5 bundle, it seems like it really addresses the issues people have with the sequencer. That, and everyone says that Record has a more crisp sound to it as far as high ends go.[/QUOTE]
The DAWs do not differ in sound quality. EVER. The plug ins may, but the DAW's do definitely not.
And yeah, I always thought Reason was meant to be Rewired, I mean, it's like a great big modular megasynth basically, and it does have good modules and such. I just feel that without the vst support it's a bit limited.
[QUOTE=Croix;28004751]The DAWs do not differ in sound quality. EVER. The plug ins may, but the DAW's do definitely not.
And yeah, I always thought Reason was meant to be Rewired, I mean, it's like a great big modular megasynth basically, and it does have good modules and such. I just feel that without the vst support it's a bit limited.[/QUOTE]
I honestly have to disagree about it being limited. Because of the layering and routing, you can honestly replicate or create any sound.
[QUOTE=Silent-Bob;28010093]I honestly have to disagree about it being limited. Because of the layering and routing, you can honestly replicate or create any sound.[/QUOTE]
True. Let's just agree to respect eachothers choices in equally shi- good DAWs.
[QUOTE=Croix;28004751]The DAWs do not differ in sound quality. EVER.[/QUOTE]
uh yeah they do
i can tell when something is made in fruity loops because the renderer is one of the most important things in a daw
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