Nicki Minaj - Beez in the Trap [TALENT] [TOP 10] [AMAZING SINGING AND CHOREOGRAPHY] - General

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;37994753] [/QUOTE] Someone could like that, it is highly unlikely but they still could. Do you really think just because it is a common opinion something is bad it's a fact? Also Itachi Crow has a very good point.

[QUOTE=thisispain;37994743]k you didn't really answer the question if we can judge music objectively then you should be able to judge that snippet of music if you can't then you've proven that any judgement of music is based on perspective and understanding of said music. Nicki Minaj is less abstract so you have something to compare it to which gives context to your perspective, IE "it sounds bad because i think this sounds good and it doesn't sound like this".[/QUOTE] But you're putting everything into one box, which doesn't fucking work and then go "well because you can't do that". Abstract doesn't really have rules that it has to follow. But when someone is singing and has some background to it. We can determine how good is the singing, how good the background is and how well it fits together. It's not about comparing. Just because you'd do that this way it doesn't mean that's the only way to do it. Stop applying your own logic to everything. Just because you can't objectively determine whether abstract music is good or bad it doesn't mean you can't do that with a pop song. There are things in a pop song that we can objectively judge. [editline]11th October 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Itachi_Crow;37994777]badly performed music =/= bad music you are missing the point[/QUOTE] Do elaborate? [QUOTE=DJK;37994798]Someone could like that, it is highly unlikely but they still could. Do you really think just because it is a common opinion something is bad it's a fact? [/QUOTE] You are missing the point. Liking/disliking music and thinking the music is good/bad is a separate thing. Music doesn't have to be good for people to like it.

yes dude it is comparing that's how human cognition works and you're basically saying "don't use your logic use mine tia" which is a big giant joke. obviously Nicki Minaj doesn't follow "the rules", i thought that was obvious. there's no rulebook pop music follows that abstract music doesn't have to follow. abstract music just means there's less to compare it to. tl;dr you're totally off-base

I can't believe this thread went 7 pages Looks like you all fell for the trap, beez in the trap

elaborate?? I literally can't explain it any simpler. you're saying there is bad music because some jokers who can't sing performed decent music badly, which has nothin to do with what is being argued at all.

[QUOTE=thisispain;37994880]yes dude it is comparing that's how human cognition works and you're basically saying "don't use your logic use mine tia" which is a big giant joke. obviously Nicki Minaj doesn't follow "the rules", i thought that was obvious. there's no rulebook pop music follows that abstract music doesn't have to follow. abstract music just means there's less to compare it to. tl;dr you're totally off-base[/QUOTE] No actually I'm saying "stop thinking that your way of doing things is the only possible way" because if you do that and your way of doing things doesn't work you're just gonna assume thing thing is impossible. How the fuck is it just personal perception whether someone is a good singer or not? You can objectively judge this. Now whether you like it or not is a different matter entirely.

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;37994848] You are missing the point. Liking/disliking music and thinking the music is good/bad is a separate thing. Music doesn't have to be good for people to like it.[/QUOTE] If in your opinion a song is bad then why would you listen to it? If you like it/enjoy it then obviously you think it's good, unless you listen to it ironically (which is fucking stupid by the way).

You all seriously need to get back in the trap, but you're all slipping.

what i already explained how it's personal perception. you compare A to B to understand if A is good or not. you think B sounds good so when A doesn't match B you decide A sounds bad this is literally how cognition works if you lived in Africa you'd have a very different perception of what a good singer was

[QUOTE=Itachi_Crow;37994962]elaborate?? I literally can't explain it any simpler. you're saying there is bad music because some jokers who can't sing performed decent music badly, which has nothin to do with what is being argued at all.[/QUOTE] Someone said that there is no bad music. I gave him example of bad "music". And since we have established that even my dog's farts are music the noise that those "jokers" made is music. We're talking about the sound they've made, not about the originals. You can objectively say that what they did was bad. [editline]11th October 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=DJK;37994976]If in your opinion a song is bad then why would you listen to it? If you like it/enjoy it then obviously you think it's good, unless you listen to it ironically (which is fucking stupid by the way).[/QUOTE] ... That's my entire point. You don't have to hate something to think it's bad. And you don't have to like something to think it's good. There are some rap or dubstep tracks that I like, but they are really bad. The same way I like this fast food kebab here that's done by some lady with mustache with 0 effort and it's probably going to give me a heart attack but I like it. And then there is Bjork who's talented and makes good music but it's completely not my vibe and I'd rather hear silence than her. [QUOTE=thisispain;37994979]what i already explained how it's personal perception. you compare A to B to understand if A is good or not. you think B sounds good so when A doesn't match B you decide A sounds bad this is literally how cognition works if you lived in Africa you'd have a very different perception of what a good singer was[/QUOTE] What the hell man. They have a different understanding of following tunes in africa? We're not talking about liking/disliking things. We're talking about vocals being good or bad. You don't have to compare anything to see whether someone is singing of tune or not.

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;37994981] ... That's my entire point. You don't have to hate something to think it's bad. And you don't have to like something to think it's good. There are some rap or dubstep tracks that I like, but they are really bad. The same way I like this fast food kebab here that's done by some lady with mustache with 0 effort and it's probably going to give me a heart attack but I like it. And then there is Bjork who's talented and makes good music but it's completely not my vibe and I'd rather hear silence than her. [/QUOTE] You just said that's your point then proceeded to disagree entirely with what I said. If you like and enjoy a track, in your opinion it must be good. You can't like music but say it's bad, which you seem to be saying you do, it's idiotic. Once again the only way could do that is by 'ironically' listening to it.

I don't like to say whether or not music is bad, just if I like it or not. I don't like this song but half this thread acts as if she's some slut from Detroit with no talent unlike your indie bands that disbanded in the 1980s.

[QUOTE=DJK;37996434]You just said that's your point then proceeded to disagree entirely with what I said. If you like and enjoy a track, in your opinion it must be good. You can't like music but say it's bad, which you seem to be saying you do, it's idiotic. Once again the only way could do that is by 'ironically' listening to it.[/QUOTE] No, it's fucking childish to think that something is bad just because it's not your taste. And don't tell me what I think.

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;37998186]No, it's fucking childish to think that something is bad just because it's not your taste. And don't tell me what I think.[/QUOTE] Silly sil - grand judge of music

[QUOTE=ShazzyFreak0;37999231]Silly sil - grand judge of music[/QUOTE] I don't see where are you getting this. Especially from "Liking/disliking music and thinking the music is good/bad is a separate thing." which is my point.

10/10 thread would read again

[QUOTE=ShazzyFreak0;37967525]yeah, same here. instead of listening to my metal music (which is infinitely times better than their "rap" trash) they just made fun of my trenchcoat.[/QUOTE] i remember when i was in 8th grade, too.

For me it's less about something being music that I don't like and more about my reaction to the fanbase. If I may take an example: I don't give a big hoot about Bieber's music, it's not my cup of tea and I don't like the sound of his heliumite constructed vocal cords. But what I can argue is that his fanbase is generally fucking stupid. Neither is Minaj's fanbase that much better. Being of the swag-type. And thanks for the kebab analogy, now I started to hunger for Kilims kebab buffet.

dude you're whiting out my screen the fuck is a "swag-type fanbase"

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;37999329]I don't see where are you getting this. Especially from "Liking/disliking music and thinking the music is good/bad is a separate thing." which is my point.[/QUOTE] And it's a fucking stupid point they aren't separate things at all in fact they're basically convergent like if you're going to like something, its because you've found some sort of merit in it, some quality in the music that makes it likeable. If it has those qualities then it can be called good music. but considering everyone likes different things, then really the only logical conclusion is that all music has merit in it, can be considered good for various reasons Seriously, how hard is it for people, teenagers on Facepunch especially to see that when they say that modern music is objectively bad, then say its just an opinion that they're being hypocritical. People should be able to look and quite easily say "well I dont like it but i won't deny it's got some sort of merit to it that i may be missing". It shouldn't be hard to have such a realisation.

[QUOTE=thisispain;38000310]dude you're whiting out my screen the fuck is a "swag-type fanbase"[/QUOTE] The kind of people going about "swag yolo". And dude, you're making a big fuzz about opinions on music.

Hey I'm 25 and what is this music But really, I would listen to this in my car with my massive sub but other than that I don't think I could take this sort of music seriously. Or people who like it. Not that they are "wrong" Just not my thing, and I don't even understand it.

[QUOTE=killerteacup;38000406]And it's a fucking stupid point they aren't separate things at all in fact they're basically convergent like if you're going to like something, its because you've found some sort of merit in it, some quality in the music that makes it likeable. If it has those qualities then it can be called good music. but considering everyone likes different things, then really the only logical conclusion is that all music has merit in it, can be considered good for various reasons Seriously, how hard is it for people, teenagers on Facepunch especially to see that when they say that modern music is objectively bad, then say its just an opinion that they're being hypocritical. People should be able to look and quite easily say "well I dont like it but i won't deny it's got some sort of merit to it that i may be missing". It shouldn't be hard to have such a realisation.[/QUOTE] I'm saying that there is quality and appeal to everything and that they are separate things. If you like something it means it has some appeal for you. It doesn't mean it's good quality. And just because something has good quality it doesn't mean you're going to like it. And it perfectly goes with "well I dont like it but i won't deny it's got some sort of merit to it that i may be missing" although I'd phrase it as "I don't like it but I'm sure there will be someone who likes it, because that's his vibe (not mentioning quality at all)". Because your statement implies that you can learn what you're "missing" and start liking something. How are you going to do that? You can't change your music taste just like that unless you're just acting.

i loved starships i love that song man its good n shit

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;38001657]I'm saying that there is quality and appeal to everything and that they are separate things. If you like something it means it has some appeal for you. It doesn't mean it's good quality. And just because something has good quality it doesn't mean you're going to like it. And it perfectly goes with "well I dont like it but i won't deny it's got some sort of merit to it that i may be missing" although I'd phrase it as "I don't like it but I'm sure there will be someone who likes it, because that's his vibe (not mentioning quality at all)". Because your statement implies that you can learn what you're "missing" and start liking something. How are you going to do that? You can't change your music taste just like that unless you're just acting.[/QUOTE] all your talk about quality is still affected by opinion. you think this song is bad, i legitimately think it's a quality song (i'm being serious here). and like i said before, i've heard way more minimalist music than this get praised by people like you. [editline]12th October 2012[/editline] can't people realise that there is almost no fact in music aside from the theory (notes, rhythm, etc).

[QUOTE=Eluveitie;38005882]all your talk about quality is still affected by opinion. you think this song is bad, i legitimately think it's a quality song (i'm being serious here). and like i said before, i've heard way more minimalist music than this get praised by people like you. [editline]12th October 2012[/editline] can't people realise that there is almost no fact in music aside from the theory (notes, rhythm, etc).[/QUOTE] ... I'm just talking to a wall. The entire point of quality and appeal is that quality is objective and appeal is subjective and everything can have an appeal. But I'm just repeating myself so I'm gonna stop.

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;38006304]... I'm just talking to a wall. The entire point of quality and appeal is that quality is objective and appeal is subjective and everything can have an appeal. But I'm just repeating myself so I'm gonna stop.[/QUOTE] you still haven't laid out any sort of specific standards of quality

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;38006304]... I'm just talking to a wall. The entire point of quality and appeal is that quality is objective and appeal is subjective and everything can have an appeal. But I'm just repeating myself so I'm gonna stop.[/QUOTE] Maybe it wouldn't feel like talking to wall for you if you actually explained what your definition of 'quality' was because at the moment you aren't exactly making much sense really. Quality of music and appeal are interlinked. Noone has the authority, education or right to make the statement that a piece of music is of objectively bad quality.

[QUOTE=Lazor;38006308]you still haven't laid out any sort of specific standards of quality[/QUOTE] I did. Few times at least. [QUOTE=killerteacup;38006403]Maybe it wouldn't feel like talking to wall for you if you actually explained what your definition of 'quality' was because at the moment you aren't exactly making much sense really. Quality of music and appeal are interlinked. Noone has the authority, education or right to make the statement that a piece of music is of objectively bad quality.[/QUOTE] This statement "Noone has the authority, education or right to make the statement that a piece of music is of objectively bad quality." exist purely because you assume "Quality of music and appeal are interlinked." If that was true, everyone would love Mozart. And yeah we can say objectively say that those are bad [URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmWL73k11NA[/URL] . And again, we're talking about the sound they're making. It's not good. By any standards. Now whether someone likes it or not is something different.

You guys are really caught up in this whole musical taste debate like bees in a trap.