Radical Feminists Trying to Attack and Desecrate a Cathedral, Peaceful Defenders Attacked.
281 replies, posted
[QUOTE=yawmwen;43083238]"war on men" is a codeword for radical feminism.[/QUOTE]
I didn't know that. I've cleared up what I've meant tho.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;43083244]I can give you links to posts on this site saying that. Plus every time someone says "this this discriminating men" you get someone saying "oh no men are being oppressed lol".
And this is an excuse for treating men worse than women or it was just an irrelevant titbid?
I don't fucking know. Ask the people who are saying that on top of equal treatment men should compensate somehow for what other men did.[/QUOTE]
well, i guess some people find it silly because the amount of discrimination men face compared to women isn't comparable, but like okay, some people have said that, it's not that big of an issue since that discrimination that men will face will disappear when the patriarchy that discriminates against everyone disappears. i can't ask the people saying that because i've never seen anyone say it
[editline]6th December 2013[/editline]
and i don't see how that was an irrelevant tidbit, not anymore irrelevant than your nonsense about compensation at least
[QUOTE=Tweevle;43083245]Sure, but I was trying to make it more clear.
You misunderstand me, I worded it kinda confusingly, I guess. The first quote "class X needs this and that" is just saying class x needs this and that for the sake of it, so it's probably going to unbalance the game if the other classes don't get something too - just as giving women advantages for the sake of it would result in inequality.
The second quote "ALL classes need this and that and the class X is missing it at the moment, therefore class X needs this and that" is saying that class X needs this and that [I]because[/I] there's an imbalance, so treating it differently (buffing it and not the others) is justified because it rectifies the existing imbalance, rather than creating a new one.
The buff won't necessarily be making class X as powerful as the others in the same way, it could be a quick, blunt fix until some more deep-set problems in the game mechanics are sorted out. But the important thing is that the classes are now more equal, even if things aren't working how they should be for the final product.[/QUOTE]
Well yes, that's the problem with some of the shit some feminists are saying. That women should get stuff purely because they are women and that men should get this and that taken away from them based purely on the fact that they are men, instead of striving for the equal footing for everyone.
[QUOTE=Tweevle;43083245]If one class is underpowered, you need to give them better stuff before you give all the classes equally good stuff, yes.[/QUOTE]
No you just need to buff them to a point where they are equal. There's no reason to overbuff the class before making it balanced.
[QUOTE=Tweevle;43083245]Because society doesn't treat both genders equally. If you don't do anything about that then you're leaving the problem to continue, and in the mean time people are still disadvantaged.[/QUOTE]
I didn't know that starting to treat both genders equally would be leaving the problem to continue.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;43083290]Well yes, that's the problem with some of the shit some feminists are saying. That women should get stuff purely because they are women and that men should get this and that taken away from them based purely on the fact that they are men, instead of striving for the equal footing for everyone.
[/QUOTE]
who said this in the history of ever?
except people trying to perpetuate patriarchy, of course.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43083278]well, i guess some people find it silly because the amount of discrimination men face compared to women isn't comparable, but like okay, some people have said that, it's not that big of an issue since that discrimination that men will face will disappear when the patriarchy that discriminates against everyone disappears. i can't ask the people saying that because i've never seen anyone say it[/QUOTE]
Discriminating people based on gender is not an issue because they are men. Good job on being a fighter for equality.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43083278]and i don't see how that was an irrelevant tidbit, not anymore irrelevant than your nonsense about compensation at least[/QUOTE]
What's the relevancy of "discrimination of men is a RESULT of the male patriarchy, and despite that men benefit from this far more and women are discriminated against far more" to discriminating men? Is it an excuse? What?
And the thing about compensation was calling out how some fighters for equality want to treat men and women differently.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;43083350]Discriminating people based on gender is not an issue because they are men. Good job on being a fighter for equality.
What's the relevancy of "discrimination of men is a RESULT of the male patriarchy, and despite that men benefit from this far more and women are discriminated against far more" to discriminating men? Is it an excuse? What?
And the thing about compensation was calling out how some fighters for equality want to treat men and women differently.[/QUOTE]
see, you completely misinterpret what i say because you think of this purely as us vs them. i said that's why some people might consider it less of an issue because male discrimination is far less severe than female, nothing about it's not an issue because they're men, i ALSO said that the removal of gender roles & the dismantling of the male patriarchy will remove discrimination against woman AND men. and they have to be treated differently for now because of inequality at the moment, treating them differently to get them to the same level. you think it's taking something away from men, it's not, it's removing privilege, sure in some cases yes it's moving them down and moving women up, but when it's uneven in the first place that is putting them at the same level. the removal of the male patriarchy would also remove some female privilege like that stuff i talked about before, women not getting as harsh jail sentences & being given preference in custody battles
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;43083290]Well yes, that's the problem with some of the shit some feminists are saying. That women should get stuff purely because they are women and that men should get this and that taken away from them based purely on the fact that they are men, instead of striving for the equal footing for everyone.[/QUOTE]
No one here is saying that. We're saying women should "get stuff" because they're disadvantaged in society, not merely because they're women. Just as the devs give class X stuff because it's underpowered in the game, not merely because it's class X.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;43083290]No you just need to buff them to a point where they are equal.[/QUOTE]
Which is what people are trying to do ...
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;43083290]I didn't know that starting to treat both genders equally would be leaving the problem to continue.[/QUOTE]
Unless treating the classes the same in an unbalanced game (i.e. buffing them all as opposed to the underpowered class) is considered fixing the problem, yeah.
no more game analogies please
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43083471]no more game analogies please[/QUOTE]
i feel bad for even trying to use the comparison in the first place.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43083471]no more game analogies please[/QUOTE]
Meh, I thought it might be a useful comparison because you can take a more unbiased and less emotionally charged look at it.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;43083317]who said this in the history of ever?[/QUOTE]
You want me to find the specific post on this site saying that men should pay women compensation for what (other) men did?
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43083395]see, you completely misinterpret what i say because you think of this purely as us vs them. [/QUOTE]
I'm not the one who thinks it's us vs them. The feminists are. It's us vs men tho. I think it's a societal problem that should be fixed by everyone without making it a movement to castrate all men or whatever.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43083395]i said that's why some people might consider it less of an issue because male discrimination is far less severe than female, nothing about it's not an issue because they're men,[/QUOTE]
Which would be a gender double standard. Which we oppose I've heard.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43083395]i ALSO said that the removal of gender roles & the dismantling of the male patriarchy will remove discrimination against woman AND men.[/QUOTE]
Except some people think that discriminating men is a way of achieving equality... or something.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43083395]and they have to be treated differently for now because of inequality at the moment, treating them differently to get them to the same level. [/QUOTE]
Treating genders different than they were until now to make it equal is necessary. Treating different genders differently in the end, regardless if it's more beneficial to men or women is bullshit.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43083395]you think it's taking something away from men, it's not, it's removing privilege, sure in some cases yes it's moving them down and moving women up, but when it's uneven in the first place that is putting them at the same level. [/QUOTE]
Please stop making shit assumptions about me. You missed.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43083395]the removal of the male patriarchy would also remove some female privilege like that stuff i talked about before, women not getting as harsh jail sentences & being given preference in custody battles[/QUOTE]
Why call it male patriarchy (which implies working against men) and not "gender roles". Since you acknowledge they work both ways? Working towards common good is much more attractive than fighting the male oppressors.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;43083519]You want me to find the specific post on this site saying that men should pay women compensation for what (other) men did?
[/QUOTE]
find me some organization or feminist that said it.
[editline]6th December 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Tweevle;43083516]Meh, I thought it might be a useful comparison because you can take a more unbiased and less emotionally charged look at it.[/QUOTE]
the problem is that it's flippant.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;43083519]Treating genders different than they were until now to make it equal is necessary.[/QUOTE]
So you agree that treating genders differently can be necessary in order to rectify an unequal society? That's basically all I'm saying.
[editline]6th December 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=yawmwen;43083529]the problem is that it's flippant.[/QUOTE]
I didn't think about it like that. If so I apologize.
[QUOTE=Tweevle;43083452]No one here is saying that. We're saying women should "get stuff" because they're disadvantaged in society, not merely because they're women. Just as the devs give class X stuff because it's underpowered in the game, not merely because it's class X.
Which is what people are trying to do ...[/QUOTE]
Some people are saying they should get more. And unless I read it wrong you said that before you can treat both genders equally you need to treat the oppressed gender better than the other for a moment?
[QUOTE=Tweevle;43083452]Unless treating the classes the same in an unbalanced game (i.e. buffing them all as opposed to the underpowered class) is considered fixing the problem, yeah.[/QUOTE]
This analogy doesn't work. Since treatment is what sets the balance. I wasn't talking about treating both genders as if they are equal. I was talking about having the same standards for both genders. For example, not having the double standard that men who have many sexual partners are macho and a good thing but women who have many sexual partners are sluts and a bad thing.
[editline]6th December 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=yawmwen;43083529]find me some organization or feminist that said it.[/QUOTE]
First it's "no one has said that in the history ever" now it's an organization. What's next the official leader of feminism?
Person11 said that. I think he considers himself a feminist. See now, you can't separate yourself from his position.
[quote]First it's "no one has said that in the history ever" now it's an organization. What's next the official leader of feminism?
Person11 said that. I think he considers himself a feminist. See now, you can't separate yourself from his position.[/QUOTE]
what sort of compensation was he advocating? what was the context of it?
Haven't read through all the thread but is there a context to this? A reason they want to desecrate the cathedral?
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;43083585]Some people are saying they should get more. And unless I read it wrong you said that before you can treat both genders equally you need to treat the oppressed gender better than the other for a moment?[/QUOTE]
I'm talking about "you" in particular, in a figurative sense. I'm not saying everyone should treat women better than men for a time in order to balance things out from a time when they were treated worse, I'm saying women [I]are[/I] being treated worse in a lot of ways - that's the reality of the situation, and since there's no quick way of stopping that happening you may have to give them some advantages elsewhere in order to balance it out, until the disadvantages they get from other people have been sorted out.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;43083585]This analogy doesn't work. Since treatment is what sets the balance. I wasn't talking about treating both genders as if they are equal. I was talking about having the same standards for both genders. For example, not having the double standard that men who have many sexual partners are macho and a good thing but women who have many sexual partners are sluts and a bad thing.[/QUOTE]
That's fair enough.
This is so confusing, is there anyone in this discussion who's following what exactly you're talking about? It somehow seems like you're agreeing but using different words for it [I]or[/I] talking about what "all" of it is about vs "this person said" vs "the general idea".
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;43083519]You want me to find the specific post on this site saying that men should pay women compensation for what (other) men did?
I'm not the one who thinks it's us vs them. The feminists are. It's us vs men tho. I think it's a societal problem that should be fixed by everyone without making it a movement to castrate all men or whatever.
Which would be a gender double standard. Which we oppose I've heard.
Except some people think that discriminating men is a way of achieving equality... or something.
Treating genders different than they were until now to make it equal is necessary. Treating different genders differently in the end, regardless if it's more beneficial to men or women is bullshit.
Please stop making shit assumptions about me. You missed.
Why call it male patriarchy (which implies working against men) and not "gender roles". Since you acknowledge they work both ways? Working towards common good is much more attractive than fighting the male oppressors.[/QUOTE]
no it's feminism vs the male patriarchy. noone thinks its about castrating men, 'its not us vs them but feminists want to castrate me' god you're a paranoid. noone thinks discriminating against men is achieving equality, you just think that removing privilege is discrimination. we're not equal yet so you're agreeing with me there? and i'm not making assumptions you're literally taking the removal of privilege as discrimination. it's called male patriarchy because it's centered around the strength of men and the subjugation of women, it's a widely establish term that you're just crying about because OH ITS AGAINST US MEN THEY WANNA CASTRATE US. how about you just grow up?
[editline]6th December 2013[/editline]
bringing up male castration basically invalidates everything you say sorry dude
if starpluck can post like he does then i should be allowed to facetiously say all men should be castrated
[QUOTE=thisispain;43084496]if starpluck can post like he does then i should be allowed to facetiously say all men should be castrated[/QUOTE]
Well you are allowed to say that. It has nothing in common with what starpluck posted though.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;43083638]what sort of compensation was he advocating? what was the context of it?[/QUOTE]
He wasn't sure what exactly should it be. He was asked a question what should happen ideally, should the genders be made equal or should men pay some sort of compensation to women on top of genders being equal and he said he advocated the latter.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43084351]no it's feminism vs the male patriarchy. noone thinks its about castrating men, 'its not us vs them but feminists want to castrate me' god you're a paranoid. noone thinks discriminating against men is achieving equality, you just think that removing privilege is discrimination. we're not equal yet so you're agreeing with me there? and i'm not making assumptions you're literally taking the removal of privilege as discrimination. it's called male patriarchy because it's centered around the strength of men and the subjugation of women, it's a widely establish term that you're just crying about because OH ITS AGAINST US MEN THEY WANNA CASTRATE US. how about you just grow up?
[editline]6th December 2013[/editline]
bringing up male castration basically invalidates everything you say sorry dude[/QUOTE]
I used the term in relation to this
[QUOTE=yawmwen;43071821]it's more like a loaded phrase or codeword that has an implied meaning to most men: "feminism wants to take away what makes you a man in society"[/QUOTE]
So everything you've just said is invalid, sorry "dude". I didn't mean they literally want to castrate men, I was talking about making it a movement against men. Maybe next time read the thread before jumping into the discussion.
And point it where I'm literally saying that removing privilege is discrimination. When I literally said this
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;43083519]Treating genders different than they were until now to make it equal is necessary. Treating different genders differently in the end, regardless if it's more beneficial to men or women is bullshit.[/QUOTE]
Do you understand what it means or should I give you an example?
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43084351]no it's feminism vs the male patriarchy.[/QUOTE]
Why does everybody seem to think that its only men perpetuating gender roles and gender bias?
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;43086774]He wasn't sure what exactly should it be. He was asked a question what should happen ideally, should the genders be made equal or should men pay some sort of compensation to women on top of genders being equal and he said he advocated the latter.
I used the term in relation to this
So everything you've just said is invalid, sorry "dude". I didn't mean they literally want to castrate men, I was talking about making it a movement against men. Maybe next time read the thread before jumping into the discussion.
And point it where I'm literally saying that removing privilege is discrimination. When I literally said this
Do you understand what it means or should I give you an example?[/QUOTE]
no i don't understand because what you're saying doesn't make any sense
[editline]6th December 2013[/editline]
so yes give me an example
[editline]6th December 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;43087217]Why does everybody seem to think that its only men perpetuating gender roles and gender bias?[/QUOTE]
they don't? that's why it's feminism vs the male patriarchy not feminism vs men
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43087574]no i don't understand because what you're saying doesn't make any sense
[editline]6th December 2013[/editline]
so yes give me an example[/QUOTE]
There is a double standard when it comes to number of sexual partners. If a guy had many sexual partners it's a positive thing and he's a macho or whatever. When a woman had many sexual partners it's a negative thing and she's considered a slut or something. Now if you remove this double standard you will treat men like that different than before (it's no longer going to be a positive thing for a man) and you will treat women like that different than before (it's no longer going to be a negative thing for a woman), but both genders are going to be treated equally (compared to each other). I don't see that as a negative thing at all. The goal is to treat both genders equally in the end. When I said that it's discrimination I wasn't talking about treating genders [B]different than we are treating them right now,[/B] I was talking about [B]treating genders differently in the end[/B]. I was talking about creating new double standards, beneficial to women. For instance that you can't discriminate men at all or that even if you do, it's not as bad as discriminating women. It's a double standard and someone who advocates equality can't support double standards.
And I know perfectly well that feminism is about fighting for gender equality, you don't have to explain this to me like you're the only one who knows what he's talking about. I've been arguing this entire time that it shouldn't be [B]portrayed [/B]as fight against men. But you can't do that because apparently you can't openly disagree with another feminist who DOES try to make it a war against men (since feminism is such a broad term), and since media report only those instances, it becomes the (biased) face that the feminism has. So if you can't portray feminism as a movement beneficial to everyone then make a different movement, whith a different name and a stricter definition but which still has the same goals. That's what people who call themselves equalists or egalitarians are trying to achieve.
Please next time read the thread before jumping to conclussions.
[QUOTE=thisispain;43084496]if starpluck can post like he does[/QUOTE]
then i should be allowed to say that you should be permanently banned for being an objectively bad poster who should evacuate the internet
you should probably just do this anyway, and take yawmwen with you
and maybe lachz0r for good measure
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;43087217]Why does everybody seem to think that its only men perpetuating gender roles and gender bias?[/QUOTE]
Women can perpetuate male patriarchy too.
[QUOTE=BrickInHead;43059096]this is a disgusting post and you should be ashamed of it tbh
the idea of punching someone in the face because they spat on you is just fucking ridiculous. that's like whipping out a gun and shooting someone if they push you.
[editline]3rd December 2013[/editline]
and then to follow it with "HAH GENDER EQUALITY" just makes you sound like an utter child[/QUOTE]
And every time you say a bad word baby jesus cries in his crib
Are you seriously sheltered and idealistic to the point where a punch sounds like an atom bomb dropped on the face of a thousand toddlers ?
I just saw this and I have to say, I am beyond impressed at how the line group of people the radical feminists were attacking really just turned the other cheek. That must have taken so much willpower.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;43088539]That's what people who call themselves equalists or egalitarians are trying to achieve.
[/QUOTE]
they don't achieve anything but confusion, division, and underming the idea of gender equality.
[editline]6th December 2013[/editline]
btw if the word egalitarianism caught steam then you would have the "radical egalitarians" on the news all the time.
[editline]6th December 2013[/editline]
it doesn't fucking matter who we separate from because the media will ALWAYS equate the two.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.