[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;48287738]Also before you all go on about how "impatient" I am, the problem isn't that there isn't a release, it's that Valve has not given even the tiniest hint at all that they might be working on it.
Not once in the almost 8 years since Ep:2 was released did Valve give us some notice about it, just pure utter silence, and nothing but.[/QUOTE]
TF2 took 9 years, Half-Life 2 took 6.
[QUOTE=wauterboi;48287733]I don't remember that. Could you lend a source?[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Steam-Holiday-Auction-Turns-Your-Trash-Treasure-68903.html[/url]
[url]http://store.steampowered.com/news/13702/[/url]
[QUOTE=AaronM202;48287736]No?
It was because the guy heading the project kept forcing it to be restarted every couple of years to incorporate new shit, and thats not getting into the nitty and gritty, it goes pretty deep.
It had nothing to do with how long it took.[/QUOTE]
The nitty gritty was that it was passed off to another company and was released a year or two later.
[QUOTE=AaronM202;48287743]TF2 took 9 years, Half-Life 2 took 6.[/QUOTE]
But for both we at least got HINTS, NEWS, Announcements, trailers, screenshots, art concepts!
With Episode 3, nothing. at. all.
That's not good customer service, I get they don't want to drum up too much excitement, but when someone is doubting if you're even making a game at all, that's worse than too much hype.
[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;48287753]The nitty gritty was that it was passed off to another company and was released a year or two later.[/QUOTE]
This.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;48287668]Honestly after Greenlight, shady store sale deals, and their hamfisted paid mods thing (It was a Valve idea, Beth was on it because their moddable games are the most popular), I can't really take Valve seriously anymore, honestly I'd leave steam if not for having alot of good friends and alot of money put into it.
I'd rather go with Blizzard or Beth since they're both making/producing alot of good games that have come out and are coming out.[/QUOTE]
Where's the logic in writing off Valve due to the paid mods fiasco and then deciding to be a fan of Bethesda instead?
[editline]25th July 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=AaronM202;48287762]Okay.[/QUOTE]
i was helping out your point dude
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;48287760]But for both we at least got HINTS, NEWS, Announcements, trailers, screenshots, art concepts!
With Episode 3, nothing. at. all.
That's not good customer service, I get they don't want to drum up too much excitement, but when someone is doubting if you're even making a game at all, that's worse than too much hype.[/QUOTE]
Since then, Valve has said they dont want to say anything due to how wildly shit changes between the start and when they start to finalize it.
Not saying thats good, but their words, not mine.
[editline]24th July 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;48287765]Where's the logic in writing off Valve due to the paid mods fiasco and then deciding to be a fanb of Bethesda instead?
[editline]25th July 2015[/editline]
i was helping you out dude[/QUOTE]
Oh woops.
[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;48287765]Where's the logic in writing off Valve due to the paid mods fiasco and then deciding to be a fanb of Bethesda instead?
[/QUOTE]
Because Todd Howard after that fiasco made it clear they want to step as far away from that as possible, and before you link me that SH article, that was just the PR Peter Hines getting starry eyed about it.
Todd's making games, Todd's making the mother of all games that blew the minds of E3.
Some years before Bioshock Infinite make waves at E3.
Half Life's Thunder is being taken away.
Also Bethesda still makes good interesting games. They've kept Fallout Alive, with Arkane Studio they brought good Stealth games back with Dishonored.
Label me a Beth Fanboy if you want, Valve HAS been slipping lately, you'd have to be blind not to see it.
Fuck's sake, only [b]11 FUCKING YEARS LATER[/b] do they decide to put up a proper fucking refund system!
You buy a game you didn't know was shit, or you couldn't run, or bugged, or whatever? You're fucked, unless it was a pre-order and you played for only 5 minutes, and after you use Steam's Support system, and get lucky if they even allow it.
Plus you got one refund, just one.
[editline]24th July 2015[/editline]
Plus I'm extra fucking tired of Valve doing quiet scummy shit and folks coming to their defense like "Oh poor Valve, they're not the evil EA."
Please.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;48287803]
Fuck's sake, only [b]11 FUCKING YEARS LATER[/b] do they decide to put up a proper fucking refund system!
You buy a game you didn't know was shit, or you couldn't run, or bugged, or whatever? You're fucked, unless it was a pre-order and you played for only 5 minutes, and after you use Steam's Support system, and get lucky if they even allow it.
Plus you got one refund, just one.[/QUOTE]
So they're slipping because they've smartened up? You're on a rationality spree my friend.
[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;48287825]So they're slipping because they've smartened up? You're on a rationality spree my friend.[/QUOTE]
Dude, they could have added in a refund system at any point during that decade.
Give me a good excuse why it would take 11 years to program a simple and easy way to get money back on purchases?
I have games I would have loved to refund because I either couldn't run them, or because I bought them without thinking, yes that's my fault, but this is America, and I have a right to return shit so long as I show my proof of purchase.
[editline]24th July 2015[/editline]
Also yes I'm very much not a fan of Valve lately.
No you don't have to see it as hard as I do.
But some of you MUST be able to admit that Valve isn't the be all end all of the gaming industry because they had an amazing track record before.
[QUOTE=AaronM202;48287743]TF2 took 9 years, Half-Life 2 took 6.[/QUOTE]
ITS A CONSPIRACY! They are releasing games 3 years later than the last one! HL2 took 6, TF2 took 9, HL3 will take 12! Conspiracy! HL3 release coming soon!
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;48287803]Fuck's sake, only [b]11 FUCKING YEARS LATER[/b] do they decide to put up a proper fucking refund system!
You buy a game you didn't know was shit, or you couldn't run, or bugged, or whatever? You're fucked, unless it was a pre-order and you played for only 5 minutes, and after you use Steam's Support system, and get lucky if they even allow it.
Plus you got one refund, just one.
[editline]24th July 2015[/editline]
Plus I'm extra fucking tired of Valve doing quiet scummy shit and folks coming to their defense like "Oh poor Valve, they're not the evil EA."
Please.[/QUOTE]
Scummy shit? At least they had/have a refund system. Origin has only had one since 2013, and only recently updated it to be more like Valve's. Valve allowed refunds on pre-orders in 2013 -that much I know for sure. The only refunds you are going to get on Bethsoft games are from steam or the stores that you bought it from. Also, Valve does come out with great games and content - at least in my opinion. I am sure they are sorry they can't meet your unprecedented standards.
[QUOTE=KKram16;48287870]
Scummy shit? At least they had/have a refund system. Origin has only had one since 2013, and only recently updated it to be more like Valve's. Valve allowed refunds on pre-orders in 2013 -that much I know for sure. The only refunds you are going to get on Bethsoft games are from steam or the stores that you bought it from. Also, Valve does come out with great games and content - at least in my opinion. I am sure they are sorry they can't meet your unprecedented standards.[/QUOTE]
Their refund system was utter shit though. It was only for Pre-Orders. And you only got one refund. Just one pre-2015.
Also Valve used to come out with games and content. Now they're just making money off Publsihers and devs putting their games on Steam, since Steam is a pseudo Monopoly where it's the most popular place where your PC game MUST go, otherwise you'll loose PC sales.
Hell buying a physical copy of Skyrim makes you use Steamworks, so you HAVE to get steam no matter what, there's no competition in that. GOG has old games, and Origin has EA games, and don't get me started on UPlay. None of them have the BOOM to even slightly compete with Steam.
Also what standards? That Gabe just uploads a video saying that they're not being lazy and are working on HL3? Because if anything that would be the best thing since it would show they're working on it, and not letting it sit in the closet while he parties with CS:GO and DOTA 2, while TF2 works the stripper pole showing off it's latest hats, and taunts, BUT OH NO, NOT WEAPONS, because they're too lazy to balance all the custom weapons sitting and collecting dust in the TF2 Workshop.
It's delusional replies like this that makes me upset to even try to argue in these kind of threads, because people have such a strong loyalty to Valve, that they cannot even think to utter a single serious criticism against it, and trump people like me who are trying to be rare one to do so.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;48287910]Their refund system was utter shit though. It was only for Pre-Orders. And you only got one refund. Just one pre-2015.....
:snip:[/QUOTE]
:chillout:
They are a game dev company and aspiring Publishers, no different from small companies like Chucklefish, GOG, or even the HB.
They have a large userbase, and allow small developers to get attention that they otherwise never would have. It is very rare to find publishers who don't request money from the people who make the games they give away.
Would you prefer they don't have Greenlight? GOG, Origin, and even the HumbleBundle don't have the kind of viewership that Valve does. If those were the only options apart from self-publication, there would be few small budget games that sell nearly as many copies as they do on steam.
Companies like this become as large as they are for a reason - they are successful business models and work hard to set new bars.
I would criticize Steam, but you are doing that already - I am bringing a counterpoint is all.
[sp]Pvt. Delusional[/sp]
[editline]derp[/editline]
Also, valve requires a $100.00 fee to be able to post games on greenlight, 100% of which (aside from taxes) is given to the Child's Play charity.
It would appear the Valve shills have showed up, but the fact is Valve is not a good company. DRM, paid mods, poor moderation on the store page, selling unfinished garbage and of course every game must have a hat store. There really isn't much difference between EA, Ubisoft and Valve at this point. It took several pushes by the EU to finally have refunds on Steam. Honestly, I wish the US goverment would moderate tech monopolies like Valve, Intel and Apple to be more fair for consumers and competitors.
Hopefully GoG Galaxy gets big, PC gaming badly needs a platform that is non-DRM and pro-consumer.
I don't know about their reasoning, but I wouldn't be surprised if HL3 is never released. As for the debate going on right now, if you ask me, Valve is a shit company.
[QUOTE=SpotEnemyBoat;48288116]It would appear the Valve shills have showed up, but the fact is Valve is not a good company. [/QUOTE]
"Fact"
*states opinion*
Nice job.
Not even going to touch the rest of that awful post.
^ Don't worry, I will.
Valve exists primarily because of mods. Many of their games started as mods. Garry's Mod started as a mod. I don't know how it is illogical and reprehensible to push for a paid mod system in a video game.
I'm actually trying to make the case in the Garry's Mod 2 discussion that having a paid mod system would kickass. Have you seen some of the stuff in the Garry's Mod WAYWO? That stuff is great. And the idea that we gain the ability to make our own single-player/multiplayer games with the ease of Garry's Mod is awesome, and I would totally pay for campaigns made by those users.
And so what if there's a lot of shit paid mods? Don't buy them.
Also, when it comes to DRM, I haven't really had that big of an issue with Steam and in fact enjoy some features it provides, like being able to play games off of my brother's accounts. DRM isn't anything new, and in moderation it's fine. I view Steam's DRM as being moderate.
I will agree with the need for quality control, but I personally have never had an issue on that front because I research games before I buy them.
[QUOTE=theevilldeadII;48287111]The Know where the same guy's bitching about TB FPS police[/QUOTE]
where?
[QUOTE=wauterboi;48288215]^ Don't worry, I will.
Valve exists primarily because of mods. Many of their games started as mods. Garry's Mod started as a mod. I don't know how it is illogical and reprehensible to push for a paid mod system in a video game.
I'm actually trying to make the case in the Garry's Mod 2 discussion that having a paid mod system would kickass. Have you seen some of the stuff in the Garry's Mod WAYWO? That stuff is great. And the idea that we gain the ability to make our own single-player/multiplayer games with the ease of Garry's Mod is awesome, and I would totally pay for campaigns made by those users.
And so what if there's a lot of shit paid mods? Don't buy them.
Also, when it comes to DRM, I haven't really had that big of an issue with Steam and in fact enjoy some features it provides, like being able to play games off of my brother's accounts. DRM isn't anything new, and in moderation it's fine. I view Steam's DRM as being moderate.
I will agree with the need for quality control, but I personally have never had an issue on that front because I research games before I buy them.[/QUOTE]
You forgot to mention that, while Valve should have stronger moderation, they set up Greenlight and Early Access to help indie developers make it onto steam and obtain/add to their audience. People took it and abused the fuck out of it, which isnt their fault. What is, again, their problem is the moderation thing, which even then i can see getting involved would be a bit "eeehhh" to do because then people would start shitting all over the place.
Plus, vote with your wallet kids.
[editline]24th July 2015[/editline]
And as bad as it is, i think its pretty obvious why theres a lack of moderation on steam.
At Valve, you do whatever the fuck you want. So nobody really wants to spend all day going through that shit deciding what should and shouldnt be removed, bad as they may be.
I have stuff on the workshop, my little experience with the comments on those, oh god, i wouldnt want to deal with that but on a larger scale, jesus.
Who allows you to refund PC games? No physical PC game copies can be refunded over here, best case scenario you can argue into giving you store credit, and they'll still be weary about it, if try to do that more then once.
As far as i am aware, Origins and GOG, are more of an exception rather then the norm.
And the only reason EA did it is because they have actual control over the DRM of every single game on the platform, they can go in and disable the keys, and actually stop you from using the product.
While many steam games, don't implement the steamworks drm, or give away non drm content, or give away an 3rd party cd-key on sale that can't be revoked.
EDIT: Also origin doesn't offer refunds on all of their products, only first party titles and a limited selection of 3rd party titles.
[QUOTE=SpotEnemyBoat;48288116]It would appear the Valve shills have showed up[/QUOTE]
Oh god, am I on /v/? "Viral marketing! Shills!"
[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;48288171]I don't know about their reasoning, but I wouldn't be surprised if HL3 is never released. As for the debate going on right now, if you ask me, Valve is a shit company.[/QUOTE]
Worst part is you can't say anything like that without being given boxes out the whazoo.
I'm just gonna leave this thread saying that this is gonna turn into a typical Valve circle jerk where we never learn from Valve's mistakes because Gabe Newell is basically Video gaming jesus to everyone.
I've tried to argue the opposite for a good while now, but no one wants to listen because they don't want to just admit that Valve has serious flaws that need to be noticed.
But if people just want to willingly beleive that Valve is tottaly a good guy 110% in all of this, then I'll be waiting for the 10 year anniversary of Episode 2's release to point out how it's been a decade without any word on HL3.
Really picture that right now, this is year 8 of no peep on a game you've been waiting for a while. Soon it will be 10 years, and then you'll have to start thinking.
Tired of shitty games? Stop paying for shitty games. Start researching. Stop trusting developers so much. Stop buying early access games without a full-understanding of what you're getting into.
I mean, you guys blame Valve for these bad games, but are you consistent with your views? Do you get mad at Amazon for not curtailing their search results? How about Newegg? E-Bay? Netflix? Do you read comments? Do you expect every purchase you make to be perfect?
There are [I]tons[/I] of bad games at GameStop, Wal-Mart, and other stores. There's broken games that are being shipped by Ubisoft, EA, and Sega. It's easy to not buy something on a launch date and look at people's experiences before buying them.
I'm not saying you shouldn't advocate for a better Steam curtailing, but to suggest the fact that you're getting burned by bad games suggest you aren't researching which is ultimately your fault. And the fact that [B]you can refund games[/B] makes any gripes completely irrelevant.
[QUOTE=wauterboi;48288215]^ Don't worry, I will.
Valve exists primarily because of mods. Many of their games started as mods. Garry's Mod started as a mod. I don't know how it is illogical and reprehensible to push for a paid mod system in a video game.
I'm actually trying to make the case in the Garry's Mod 2 discussion that having a paid mod system would kickass. Have you seen some of the stuff in the Garry's Mod WAYWO? That stuff is great. And the idea that we gain the ability to make our own single-player/multiplayer games with the ease of Garry's Mod is awesome, and I would totally pay for campaigns made by those users.
And so what if there's a lot of shit paid mods? Don't buy them.[/QUOTE]
There are a lot of mods that you can't tell if they'll be good or not just by the screenshots, you have to try them out yourself.
And with the amount of mods people get for Gmod, having lots of paid mods would mean it'd get expensive really fast. Call me selfish but I much prefer the way mods work today.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;48288324]Worst part is you can't say anything like that without being given boxes out the whazoo.
I'm just gonna leave this thread saying that this is gonna turn into a typical Valve circle jerk where we never learn from Valve's mistakes because Gabe Newell is basically Video gaming jesus to everyone.
I've tried to argue the opposite for a good while now, but no one wants to listen because they don't want to just admit that Valve has serious flaws that need to be noticed.
But if people just want to willingly beleive that Valve is tottaly a good guy 110% in all of this, then I'll be waiting for the 10 year anniversary of Episode 2's release to point out how it's been a decade without any word on HL3.
Really picture that right now, this is year 8 of no peep on a game you've been waiting for a while. Soon it will be 10 years, and then you'll have to start thinking.[/QUOTE]
The problem is that you're on such a high on hating Valve that makes it seem a little bit loopy, and I'd actually argue that you can't handle competing views yourself.
[quote]a typical Valve circle jerk[/quote]
[quote]Gabe Newell is basically Video gaming jesus[/quote]
I mean, look - no one here is really arguing with you and right out of nowhere you lay this huge turd on the thread:
[quote]Plus I'm extra fucking tired of Valve doing quiet scummy shit and folks coming to their defense like "Oh poor Valve, they're not the evil EA."
Please.[/quote]
Like calm down, it's not a big deal. You're pretty much calling everyone "stupid sheeple" that will never see the light of GOD BETHESDA ALL WILL PRAISE more than anyone else is praising Valve.
[editline]24th July 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=*Freezorg*;48288328]There are a lot of mods that you can't tell if they'll be good or not just by the screenshots, you have to try them out yourself.
And with the amount of mods people get for Gmod, having lots of paid mods would mean it'd get expensive really fast. Call me selfish but I much prefer the way mods work today.[/QUOTE]
If they don't provide enough information on what the mod is like, don't buy it. It's their fault for not marketing their project well.
[QUOTE=*Freezorg*;48288328]There are a lot of mods that you can't tell if they'll be good or not just by the screenshots, you have to try them out yourself.
And with the amount of mods people get for Gmod, having lots of paid mods would mean it'd get expensive really fast. Call me selfish but I much prefer the way mods work today.[/QUOTE]
But people already sell mods for gmod, they have for years, its not exactly small scale either.
[QUOTE=RichyZ;48288444]and its been a cancer to the community
then again i havent played the game in years in any lasting capacity[/QUOTE]
It's a lot easier to sell a shitty DarkRP mod than it is to create something useful or fun.
Which is why I think Garry's Mod needs to expand with an emphasis on single-player support. I have an interest in making single-player mods.
[QUOTE=AaronM202;48286792]Also, you know whats just as bad as critical backlash?
Never releasing the game and disappointing/upsetting/infuriating millions of people even more so.[/QUOTE]
Duke Nukem Forever had the same line of thinking..z
There's a point where the hype dies and there's a point where the hype is so strong that literally nothing can be done right. The problem is there are no winning moves unless Valve actually makes a really good game. And even then if they wait long enough there will be backlash simple because "That's it? we waited X years for this?" There is probably always going to be that, but there's going to be more of it the longer it takes. It's probably a good thing Valve hasn't released ANY info about hl3 at all because otherwise there would probably be no winning move for them.
[QUOTE=wauterboi;48288353]The problem is that you're on such a high on hating Valve that makes it seem a little bit loopy, and I'd actually argue that you can't handle competing views yourself.
I mean, look - no one here is really arguing with you and right out of nowhere you lay this huge turd on the thread:
Like calm down, it's not a big deal. You're pretty much calling everyone "stupid sheeple" that will never see the light of GOD BETHESDA ALL WILL PRAISE more than anyone else is praising Valve.
[editline]24th July 2015[/editline]
If they don't provide enough information on what the mod is like, don't buy it. It's their fault for not marketing their project well.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for this insightful post, Wauterboi. I haven't even thought of a pay-for-mods scheme before, but have seen similar things. I remember back when I was an admin on [del]conna's[/del] [url=http://facepunch.com/member.php?u=145239]Kudo's[/url] Cider RP server he tried to sell his Gamemode (which was the best I have ever used, even to this day apart from maybe GMod 8's DarkRP) when people kept requesting he release it instead of keeping it private.
Back then that was practically heresy to sell mods and he got a lot of flak for it. In the end he kept it to himself and closed the server down. If there had been a system in place then to allow people to buy these great gamemodes or mods, we would still have a working copy of Cider RP rolling around on servers, and he would have been able to make a profit from his hard work.
[QUOTE=AaronM202;48288234]:snip:
Plus, vote with your wallet kids.
:snip:
[/quote]
^this
[editline]8:427/24/15[/editline]
Looks like you can't even say his name on the Facepunch forums anymore. And this happened almost 10 years ago! I remember watching the flame wars when that shit went down.
[QUOTE=draugur;48288476]Duke Nukem Forever had the same line of thinking..[/QUOTE]
You're a page late buddy.
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