[QUOTE=Beafman;17809790]But am I then only one who are happy with that? That we are finally on the road toward a federation of states?[/QUOTE]
And why [i]exactly[/i] is that a good thing?
[QUOTE=Giner;17810351]It's not in our Human Nature to be unified under one banner, individuality is what makes us human and there would be infighting and rebellion, it just wouldn't work.[/QUOTE]
We aren't apes anymore.
[QUOTE=acds;17810362]We aren't apes anymore.[/QUOTE]
Gee what a strawman.
[QUOTE=acds;17810362]We aren't apes anymore.[/QUOTE]
It's not about being apes, people still fight for what they believe in, by force or diplomacy.
I'm all for it as long as we can keep our individual freedoms and Brussels manage to rule without all the b[b]euro[/b]cracy.
Right now the EU is way too inefficient and beurocratic.
[QUOTE=Giner;17810351]It's not in our Human Nature to be unified under one banner, individuality is what makes us human and there would be infighting and rebellion, it just wouldn't work.[/QUOTE]
Unified under the banner of humanity for when we go out to explore the universe. We will all die if we only stay here and an astroid comes and destroyes us all.
Not wanting for space colonization is like saying we should not invent other power sources other then oil and then let it run out. We need to do it, wether we like it or not.
[QUOTE=Cheezy;17810385]I'm all for it as long as we can keep our individual freedoms and Brussels manage to rule without all the b[b]euro[/b]cracy.[/QUOTE]
Ahhah.
Oh wow.
Have you looked what is happening there right now.
[QUOTE=Giner;17810311]Or I can give my opinion, like everyone else, I don't agree with the EU and would prefer if we weren't in it. It's just one more step towards a One World Government.[/QUOTE]
Feel free to share your opinion if you actually [i]know[/i] something about the topic and feel that you contribute something to the thread, instead of just spewing out ignorant bullshit that just shows how oblivious to world politics and European history you actually are.
[QUOTE=evilking1;17810391]Ahhah.
Oh wow.
Have you looked what is happening there right now.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, which is why I'm opposed to the EU at the moment.
[QUOTE=Beafman;17810386]Unified under the banner of humanity for when we go out to explore the universe. We will all die if we only stay here and an astroid comes and destroyes us all.
Not wanting for space colonization is like saying we should not invent other power sources other then oil and then let it run out. We need to do it, wether we like it or not.[/QUOTE]
Did I say that we shouldn't have space exploration, in that case countries with space programs sufficient enough should work together to do it, doesn't have to be a USE.
[QUOTE=Giner;17810351]It's not in our Human Nature to be unified under one banner, individuality is what makes us human and there would be infighting and rebellion, it just wouldn't work.[/QUOTE]
Actually it is in human nature to join in groups for one or more common causes, if that wasn't human nature we would never have grouped together back when we where cavemen and created clans and tribes.
I say we should just create European Federation because then countries could still have some power in their region.
I don't support this...such a federation would concentrate even more power to Brussels and thus begin to take away more and more power from the member states. It would be a very considerable threat for democracy. The EU parliament is a very bureaucratic organization, and they've passed through many stupid directives and orders.
It's also likely the bigger states like France and Germany would exploit the economically weaker states of Eastern Europe. Right now the situation is pretty good, I support euro as the currency and the Schengen agreement, but such "United States of Europe" doesn't sound very good to me. Not at all.
[QUOTE=Stene;17810419]
It's also likely the bigger states like France and Germany would exploit the economically weaker states of Eastern Europe. Right now the situation is pretty good, I support euro as the currency and the Schengen agreement, but such "United States of Europe" doesn't sound very good to me. Not at all.[/QUOTE]
Actually no, since when the laws are the same, people from the weaker states move to the bigger and stronger states, and items are purchased from there where they are the cheapest.
[editline]01:32PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=ripsipiirakk;17810413]I say we should just create European Federation because then countries could still have some power in their region.[/QUOTE]
Don't we have something like it after the 'bon treatment
[editline]01:33PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Beafman;17810386]
Not wanting for space colonization is like saying we should not invent other power sources other then oil and then let it run out. We need to do it, wether we like it or not.[/QUOTE]
No, it's bit like saying we shouldn't move to a desert since there is space but nothing to support living.
You know guys, the Lisbon Treaty is created to decrease beaurocracy by centralising more power to the European Council and the European Parliment. It has also increased the democracy, since the future reforms created after the Lisbon Treaty will be about the freedoms of the european people to vote about future elections of commisioners and possibly the president of the European Council.
[QUOTE=Beafman;17810488]freedoms of the european people to vote about future elections of commisioners and possibly the president of the European Council.[/QUOTE]
Hard to guess if those who are elected are from UK, France, or Germany...
Or do we vote 1 from every country and then throw a dice to select the president?
[QUOTE=Doug52392;17809912]There's also the North American Union, which didn't happen either.[/QUOTE]
Yet.
[QUOTE=evilking1;17810506]Hard to guess if those who are elected are from UK, France, or Germany...
Or do we vote 1 from every country and then throw a dice to select the president?[/QUOTE]
the latter one would be the most fair.
Tom Clancy's End War, anyone?
[QUOTE=Beafman;17810522]the latter one would be the most fair.[/QUOTE]
But not very democratic.
[editline]01:43PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=azndude;17810528]Tom Clancy's End War, anyone?[/QUOTE]
Classy literature, my respects.
[QUOTE=evilking1;17810533]But not very democratic.
[editline]01:43PM[/editline]
Classy literature, my respects.[/QUOTE]
How wouldn't it be democratic? all get one vote. It's like an election, just because a guy is rich, doesn't mean he get 5-10 extra votes then the poor guy. They both have one vote each.
[QUOTE=Beafman;17810488]You know guys, the Lisbon Treaty is created to decrease beaurocracy by centralising more power to the European Council and the European Parliment. It has also increased the democracy, since the future reforms created after the Lisbon Treaty will be about the freedoms of the european people to vote about future elections of commisioners and possibly the president of the European Council.[/QUOTE]
exactly, but noone knows this.
[QUOTE=Beafman;17810565]How wouldn't it be democratic? all get one vote. It's like an election, just because a guy is rich, doesn't mean he get 5-10 extra votes then the poor guy. They both have one vote each.[/QUOTE]
I mean that if there is one person selected from every country and then the leader is just randomly picked amongst them it isn't really democratic.
That is if the president has any real power and wouldn't be just some celebrity, if that is you can vote a sheep there for all I care.
Good, countries are an absurd idea anyway, the quicker we abolish them the quicker we stop our petty falling outs and mass killings.
Countries serve no purpose but to divide people and cause them fight against each other in the name of some stupid bloody flag. Who gives a shit where you are born.
ONE WORLD GOVERMENT!!1 ITS AHPEbnING!
[QUOTE=evilking1;17810622]I mean that if there is one person selected from every country and then the leader is just randomly picked amongst them it isn't really democratic.
That is if the president has any real power and wouldn't be just some celebrity, if that is you can vote a sheep there for all I care.[/QUOTE]
At the current moment even with the lisbon treaty, the president is nothing more then the representative of the EU.
If it ever happens, then we will start saying "God Bless The United States of Europe."
[QUOTE=Beafman;17810746]At the current moment even with the lisbon treaty, the president is nothing more then the representative of the EU.[/QUOTE]
I thought that we were talking about the future here
[editline]02:52PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=tomatmann;17811011]If it ever happens, then we will start saying "God Bless The United States of Europe."[/QUOTE]
But since we have so many religions it's more like "Gods Bless the United States of Europe"
[QUOTE=Zarfa;17810160]Meybe "The United Nations Of The World" ?
Seriously guys we really need to become one and go out to space.
[B]Edit :[/B]
Ninja'd by the little dino :([/QUOTE]
Little!? LITTLE!? I AM AWESOME B. DINOSAUR, FEEL MY WRATH! RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH
[B]Edit:[/B]
:ese:
[QUOTE=tomatmann;17811011]If it ever happens, then we will start saying "God Bless The United States of Europe."[/QUOTE]
The nordic states will be the ones going for a total seperation between Church and State, that's for sure. We will be the athiest breadbasket of europe :P
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