• Creation of the United States of Europe?
    296 replies, posted
death to eu
Thread music: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB1OkuN8vdU[/media] And yes, I know that song is about Asia as well. Personally, I'm all for a USE, as long as the countries within retain their individuality and have control over issues that may only apply to them.
Can I have "Confederate States of the Low Countries", if we start mimicking the US do it good! [img]http://i38.tinypic.com/ogjuqv.png[/img] (I even have a flag ^_^)
I don't want a man from Poland telling me what I can and cannot do in my own country. One flag One government One culture One language Its like repeating history, only we're doing this by pen instead of war. [editline]04:33PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Beafman;17810488]You know guys, the Lisbon Treaty is created to decrease beaurocracy by centralising more power to the European Council and the European Parliment. It has also increased the democracy, since the future reforms created after the Lisbon Treaty will be about the freedoms of the european people to vote about future elections of commisioners and possibly the president of the European Council.[/QUOTE] Not being able to vote out EU MP's in the Lisbon treaty is cool bro.
United states of universe, oh we're the only one..
[QUOTE=Vasili;17811314]I don't want a man from Poland telling me what I can and cannot do in my own country. One flag One government One culture One language Its like repeating history, only we're doing this by pen instead of war. [/QUOTE] The Romans did pretty well for a while. Well they enslaved few nations but man were those buildings cool
[QUOTE=Doug52392;17809912]Nope, not going to happen. There's also the North American Union, which didn't happen either.[/QUOTE] NATO, also North West Trade Agreement. Not exactly a union, it's more like US owns Canada and Mexico, and then China Owns the States.
[QUOTE=evilking1;17811370]The Romans did pretty well for a while. Well they enslaved few nations but man were those buildings cool[/QUOTE] They all fell eventually and so will the EU, it's just in an endless cycle.
[QUOTE=Beafman;17810386]Unified under the banner of humanity for when we go out to explore the universe. We will all die if we only stay here and an astroid comes and destroyes us all. Not wanting for space colonization is like saying we should not invent other power sources other then oil and then let it run out. We need to do it, wether we like it or not.[/QUOTE] Ofcourse you forgot to mention why a megastate is necessary. It's like saying "I think it's necessary, therefore we need a state to force us to do it." It's fucking stupid. Maybe you can't think for yourself, but that doesn't mean you should force everybody to submit to your crappy solution.
Europe already has a national anthem did you know, Ode to Joy. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXuhvzbQ5EI[/media]
[QUOTE=evilking1;17811370]The Romans did pretty well for a while. Well they enslaved few nations but man were those buildings cool[/QUOTE] Then they fell because of corruption, recreation of the emperor and war.
[QUOTE=Electrocuter;17810412]Actually it is in human nature to join in groups for one or more common causes, if that wasn't human nature we would never have grouped together back when we where cavemen and created clans and tribes.[/QUOTE] A state isn't "voluntary grouping", it is forced grouping. That's pretty much what defines a state. Your argument assumes that "we all" want a united Europe, when clearly we don't. [editline]05:45PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Vasili;17811314]I don't want a man from Poland telling me what I can and cannot do in my own country.[/QUOTE] Your country? By what standards do you "own" your country? Now tell me how that isn't [i]utterly arbitrary[/i]. [editline]05:47PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Beafman;17811099]The nordic states will be the ones going for a total seperation between Church and State, that's for sure. We will be the athiest breadbasket of europe :P[/QUOTE] Seperation of church and state is not the same thing as atheism, and we are not exactly doing well, considering that we are discriminating based on religion. That's not seperation of church and state.
[QUOTE=TheAnarchist;17811468] Your country? By what standards do you "own" your country? Now tell me how that isn't [i]utterly arbitrary[/i].[/QUOTE] Christ on a bicycle Mr Anarchy, it is a play of words. The only people I want making laws and regulations in the country I live in (is that better for you?) are the people who live here, share the culture and understanding the way of life here. It is like me banning wine in France because it is a health risk, without understanding wine is deep in French culture.
[QUOTE=Orsenfelt;17810633]Good, countries are an absurd idea anyway, the quicker we abolish them the quicker we stop our petty falling outs and mass killings. Countries serve no purpose but to divide people and cause them fight against each other in the name of some stupid bloody flag. Who gives a shit where you are born.[/QUOTE] Hey, guys, I wonder why countries actually fight each other? Maybe because people actually want different things. Oh, and also because states aren't subject to much of a cost-benefit-analysis since their costs are externalized, but that's not the issue. Anyway, since fighting is [b]objectively bad[/b], I think the solution is one HUGE state that people mindlessly obey so that it can supress the minority against their will! GREAT!
[QUOTE=smurfy;17811419]Europe already has a national anthem did you know, Ode to Joy. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXuhvzbQ5EI[/media][/QUOTE] And now, the crescendo! [media][IMG]http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt143/IAreJackass/2611963554_8a0cf72215.jpg[/IMG][/media] Seriously, though. In the 21st century, it would be so much easier to become a union through financial means. The common people don't want to see their national flag merged into one big monolith empire. But they won't blink twice at a region-wide pact of a merged market of sorts. Hell, Europe's halfway there already with the Euro. For once, I think the conspiracy nuts have a point.
[QUOTE=Beafman;17809790] But am I then only one who are happy with that? That we are finally on the road toward a federation of states?[/QUOTE] Whilst I love unification, I also hate the French.
[QUOTE=Vasili;17811534]Christ on a bicycle Mr Anarchy, it is a play of words. The only people I want making laws and regulations in the country I live in (is that better for you?) are the people who live here, share the culture and understanding the way of life here. It is like me banning wine in France because it is a health risk, without understanding wine is deep in French culture.[/QUOTE] Or like you, living in a southern region of your country, banning whatever in a Northern region of your country, without understanding that what you banned was important for the people living there. You did not understand my argument, it was not a play of words, it was the statement that country borders are completely arbitrary because they weren't put there for any particular reason. They do not necessarily represent culture (if so, only forced culture... you know, borders are a result of war) or anything else for that matter.
[QUOTE=Giner;17811393]They all fell eventually and so will the EU, it's just in an endless cycle.[/QUOTE] Roman Empire lasted "only" 500 years and the eastern Rome only a thousand years after that. 1500 years really is something. Oh wait did you mean that USA is going to last forever and nothing else like EU can be compared to that.
[QUOTE=Vasili;17811314] One flag One government One culture One language [/QUOTE] I'm not sure where you get the idea that there could ever be 'one culture' in Europe. Considering that it could be argued that the north and south of england are culturally different, or even Yorkshire having it's own, it would be extremely difficult to erase these or mash them together. As for one language, there are 23 official languages and hundreds if not thousands of seperate dialects and regional languages. You can't erase these things easily, the general population wouldn't allow it. I can't see a European superstate working at all because it is so different. Unlike the United States for example which shares a common history, European nations are all extremely different and diverse. The only advantages that an EU state would have are that we would be the richest and probably the most powerful country in the world.
[QUOTE=Vasili;17811534] It is like me banning wine in France because it is a health risk, without understanding wine is deep in French culture.[/QUOTE] Yeah, slavery was deep in the American culture, damn hippies for banning that :argh:
[QUOTE=toxicpiano;17811601]I'm not sure where you get the idea that there could ever be 'one culture' in Europe. Considering that it could be argued that the north and south of england are culturally different, or even Yorkshire having it's own, it would be extremely difficult to erase these or mash them together. As for one language, there are 23 official languages and hundreds if not thousands of seperate dialects and regional languages. You can't erase these things easily, the general population wouldn't allow it. I can't see a European superstate working at all because it is so different. Unlike the United States for example which shares a common history, European nations are all extremely different and diverse. The only advantages that an EU state would have are that we would be the richest and probably the most powerful country in the world.[/QUOTE] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bM2Ql3wOGcU[/media]
[QUOTE=evilking1;17811606]Yeah, slavery was deep in the American culture, damn hippies for banning that :argh:[/QUOTE] meritocracy and separation of church and state are supposed to be as well, that failed too :(
[QUOTE=TheAnarchist;17811592]Or like you, living in a southern region of your country, banning whatever in a Northern region of your country, without understanding that what you banned was important for the people living there.[/quote] But atleast people can vote against such ideas unlike new Libson regulations. [quote]You did not understand my argument, it was not a play of words, it was the statement that country borders are completely arbitrary because they weren't put there for any particular reason. They do not necessarily represent culture (if so, only forced culture... you know, borders are a result of war) or anything else for that matter.[/QUOTE] Okay nihilist, nothing exists and all morals and laws are just made by the present society's opinions.
[QUOTE=TheAnarchist;17811592]Or like you, living in a southern region of your country, banning whatever in a Northern region of your country, without understanding that what you banned was important for the people living there. You did not understand my argument, it was not a play of words, it was the statement that [b]country borders are completely arbitrary because they weren't put there for any particular reason.[/b] They do not necessarily represent culture (if so, only forced culture... you know, borders are a result of war) or anything else for that matter.[/QUOTE] Somebody needs to pay more attention in World History.
[QUOTE=Vasili;17811655]But atleast people can vote against such ideas unlike new Libson regulations. [/QUOTE] Sounds good, voting on every little thing every week, everybody will surely come to vote on "Legislation about the coloring artifacts withing motorized equipment" People don't have the power, the people who we vote have the power. Sadly they might not follow what they have promised.
[QUOTE=Vasili;17811655]But atleast people can vote against such ideas unlike new Libson regulations.[/QUOTE] Dear Vasili, I'm writing to let you know that at the end of every month, you owe me $20. If you refuse to pay, I will stick you into this cage I constructed. If you wish to have a redress of grievances, that is okay, although I will dictate what is considered "legitimate" in terms of how you can retaliate against this arrangement. Because you can even dispute the manner in which you are allowed to complain, this does not qualify as "imposition" of anything. Your cooperation in these efforts would be greatly appreciated. With love, TheAnarchist. [QUOTE=Vasili;17811655]Okay nihilist, nothing exists and all morals and laws are just made by the present society's opinions.[/QUOTE] No, legislation is made (indirectly even) by the majority, and the majority isn't right by any objective standard, especially when it comes to non-moral issues. Nice strawman though. [editline]06:14PM[/editline] [QUOTE=IAreJackass;17811658]Somebody needs to pay more attention in World History.[/QUOTE] Yeah you do.
[QUOTE=evilking1;17811754]Sounds good, voting on every little thing every week, everybody will surely come to vote on "Legislation about the coloring artifacts withing motorized equipment" People don't have the power, the people who we vote have the power. Sadly they might not follow what they have promised.[/QUOTE] Why can't people vote on things that effect the country they live deeply?
EU laws are fucking up the UK It makes the strong economies in mainland Europe stronger, and completely fucks over Britain.
[QUOTE=TheAnarchist;17811788]Yeah you do.[/QUOTE] Open boarders destroy culture and radically change it very fast.
I'd love to see a united europe. I find rejecting the idea out of being patriotic to be entirely ridiculous.
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