Whale Wars

[Erector Beast]

[QUOTE=Rofl my Waff;16709792]You have to realize that organizations can be supported by the government without being government organizations. Otherwise half the wealth of the US would currently be considered unprivatized government institutions.[/QUOTE]

I know they're not government-run organizations or anything, I'm just saying that considering it is a large part of the Japanese economy and Japan is getting punished for the whalers' actions, they have a little more to do with it than simply being the country of origin of the whalers.

[Rofl my Waff]

Well to be honest, has anyone else thought that this whole discussion a tad silly? I have to say I came into this thread with moderate views on both sides, but from what I have been researching, it seems odd to have a show focusing solely on whaling considering from the estimates I've been getting, the japanese whalers have indeed been keeping the population of minke whales in check (whether that's a good thing or not, it's better than a straight decline).
[img]http://scienceblogs.com/shiftingbaselines/minke_whales.035.jpg[/img]
It just seems silly because this show portrays the whalers as evil international law breakers threatening the fabric of the ecosystem when infact commercial fishing closer to home is doing greater damage to our world

Tuna Population
[img]http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h133/Radicalaces/bluefinpopulation.gif?t=1250317160[/img]

But that would be silly to make a tv show about hippies tear gassing tuna fishers wouldn't it?

The only argument I really have is against the illegal poaching of larger more endangered species, which I still believe could easily be the result of corruption in private companies like ICR.

[OvB]

[QUOTE=Rofl my Waff;16710298]Well to be honest, has anyone else thought that this whole discussion a tad silly? I have to say I came into this thread with moderate views on both sides, but from what I have been researching, it seems odd to have a show focusing solely on whaling considering from the estimates I've been getting, the japanese whalers have indeed been keeping the population of minke whales in check (whether that's a good thing or not, it's better than a straight decline).
[img]http://scienceblogs.com/shiftingbaselines/minke_whales.035.jpg[/img]
It just seems silly because this show portrays the whalers as evil international law breakers threatening the fabric of the ecosystem when infact commercial fishing closer to home is doing greater damage to our world

Tuna Population
[img]http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h133/Radicalaces/bluefinpopulation.gif?t=1250317160[/img]

But that would be silly to make a tv show about hippies tear gassing tuna fishers wouldn't it?

The only argument I really have is against the illegal poaching of larger more endangered species, which I still believe could easily be the result of corruption in private companies like ICR.[/QUOTE]

Yup, i don't have a problem with it as long as they keep it in check. My only concern is to get them out of places they are not aloud to be.

[JasperWB]

Eco-terrorism, plain and simple. I watched one episode and realized why even Greenpeace threw these guys out.

[Erector Beast]

[QUOTE=OvB;16710396]Yup, i don't have a problem with it as long as they keep it in check. My only concern is to get them out of places they are not aloud to be.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I don't really see the issue with the whaling either as long as they aren't over-hunting. I can understand why the Sea Shepherds are angry, because they know what the whales are really being used for, and it's not for science. Makes a good show, in the end.

[OvB]

[QUOTE=lil_n00blett;16710460]Yeah, I don't really see the issue with the whaling either as long as they aren't over-hunting. I can understand why the Sea Shepherds are angry, because they know what the whales are really being used for, and it's not for science. Makes a good show, in the end.[/QUOTE]

Although the total ending of whaling would be great, and you could call me an anti-whaler, I'm smart enough to know next to nothing will stop the Japanese from whaling so the best thing we can do is make sure they don't over-do it.

[Rofl my Waff]

Isn't it nice when everyone agrees.

[OvB]

So... how 'bout them shark finners? :v: (kidding...)

And whats with the ratings?

[Darth_GW7]

[QUOTE=OvB;16710489]Although the total ending of whaling would be great, and you could call me an anti-whaler, I'm smart enough to know next to nothing will stop the Japanese from whaling so the best thing we can do is make sure they don't over-do it.[/QUOTE]

Or nuke japan.
They'll get over it, they did last time.

[Sneaux]

I saw an episode and the sea shepards were being shot it. Fucking idiots.

[acds]

Meh, no hippies getting shot=no fun.
Didn't a Greenpeace boat get blown up by the French after protesting against the French nuclear tests?

[editline]09:19AM[/editline]

Yes it did: [url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/july/10/newsid_2499000/2499283.stm[/url]

[PromiscuousPanc]

[QUOTE=Sneaux;16712039]I saw an episode and the sea shepards were being shot it. Fucking idiots.[/QUOTE]

Well there was a bullet shell found in Paul Watson's vest after he felt that he was shot. The only thing that saved him was his badge.

But the Japanese say they didn't shoot anything.

But it's hard to prove that you didn't shoot someone when there's a bullet in their bulletproof vest.

[hurts]

[QUOTE=Rofl my Waff;16709092]What? Yeah, that's what a company is man.

Get with the program dood. This is basic capitalism.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I know. I realize that it is, I just never really thought of it that way for some reason. It's one of the things you know, but you don't think of it that way. For me anyways.

[Fekel Die Juden]

The last two episodes have been grand. I saw 4 whales die, thats a lot of people in japan benefiting from the catch, because now they get to go home from this shity artic wasteland and see their families and feed them because they are being payed. If you find something wrong with being payed for a job, in this case, fishing for giant sacks of fat that are half alseep their entire lives then you are an elitest fuckjob.

[editline]12:17PM[/editline]

[QUOTE=Sneaux;16712039]I saw an episode and the sea shepards were being shot it. Fucking idiots.[/QUOTE]

Paul Watson is one of the biggest lie pants on earth since OJ, S. What they pulled out of his pink dumb looking vest was a fragment of a flashbang grenade, not a bullet. I would know because unlike you whizfags I actually deal with these things because I am not 12 and I have real world experience. This is also why I think the whalers are the underdogs here.

[Rapetacular]

Wow, just watched this show. I have no respect for those dumb ass sea shephards. The Nishimaru is a pimp ass boat with a gangsta ass crew who dont take shit from no eco terrorists.

I lol'd at the ships chasing the bitch sea shephards when they were trying to load the small boats onto their big boat

[editline]01:19PM[/editline]

[QUOTE=PromiscuousPancake;16715196]Well there was a bullet shell found in Paul Watson's vest after he felt that he was shot. The only thing that saved him was his badge.

But the Japanese say they didn't shoot anything.

But it's hard to prove that you didn't shoot someone when there's a bullet in their bulletproof vest.[/QUOTE]

That shit was so fake.

[PromiscuousPanc]

[QUOTE=Fekel Die Juden;16718292]The last two episodes have been grand. I saw 4 whales die, thats a lot of people in japan benefiting from the catch, because now they get to go home from this shity artic wasteland and see their families and feed them because they are being payed. If you find something wrong with being payed for a job, in this case, fishing for giant sacks of fat that are half alseep their entire lives then you are an elitest fuckjob.

[editline]12:17PM[/editline]

Paul Watson is one of the biggest lie pants on earth since OJ, S. What they pulled out of his pink dumb looking vest was a fragment of a flashbang grenade, not a bullet. I would know because unlike you whizfags I actually deal with these things because I am not 12 and I have real world experience. This is also why I think the whalers are the underdogs here.[/QUOTE]

Flashbangs are still pretty dangerous. I still don't understand how throwing a smelly acid on the boat calls for throwing flashbangs back.

Also, no one is combating your knowledge of such things. Calm down, sir.

[Rapetacular]

Also, Whale meat is delicious and tender and is good on the grill.

[Fekel Die Juden]

I need some whale, it looks bloody delicious.

[ActionBastard]

[QUOTE=PromiscuousPancake;16719343]Flashbangs are still pretty dangerous. I still don't understand how throwing a smelly acid on the boat calls for throwing flashbangs back.

Also, no one is combating your knowledge of such things. Calm down, sir.[/QUOTE]

I'd be pretty damn angry if a bunch of hippies were throwing jars of old butter on my boat.

[Zamped]

What I hate is when the Japanese have a whale, and they ruin it with that butaric(sp?) acid shit. If they are so upset about whales getting killed, they should at least let the meat go to good use.

[Erector Beast]

[QUOTE=Zamped;16720754]What I hate is when the Japanese have a whale, and they ruin it with that butaric(sp?) acid shit. If they are so upset about whales getting killed, they should at least let the meat go to good use.[/QUOTE]

By being persistent and ruining all the whales, though, the business won't be profitable, and they might give up altogether on whaling because they Sea Shepherds are stopping it.

[SeamanStains]

The captain is a fucking retard. It's a good cause, but the way the Sea Shephards conduct their operations is piss poor.

[rathat48]

WORST theme song ever.

[PromiscuousPanc]

[QUOTE=ActionBastard;16720573]I'd be pretty damn angry if a bunch of hippies were throwing jars of old butter on my boat.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but you wouldn't use things that could cause them physical harm would you? Especially if doing so could get you in deep shit.

And I like that song. :(

[Fekel Die Juden]

wtf are you talking about? Last time they threw that slippery shit on the deck of the japanese factory ship some guy slipped off and froze to death in the water.

[Erector Beast]

[QUOTE=Fekel Die Juden;16740352]wtf are you talking about? Last time they threw that slippery shit on the deck of the japanese factory ship some guy slipped off and froze to death in the water.[/QUOTE]

Could you find a source for this? I haven't seen all the episodes but I don't recall anyone dying.

[editline]01:19PM[/editline]

I just looked through the episode listing on wikipedia. At one point the whalers are looking for a crew member that had fallen overboard, but the Sea Shepherds weren't the cause.

[quote=Wikipedia]The Sea Shepherd gather intel on the fleet's location, they realize that they are low on fuel. As they weigh whether or not to head back to port, they come across the entire Japanese fleet searching for one of their crewmembers that has fallen overboard.[/quote]

[Wordsworth]

These idiots are putting people in danger? For what? Whales?

What the hell..

[OvB]

This is what the Australian IWC Commission said:

[quote]Dear Mr Vollmer

Thank you for your email of 15 August 2009 to Donna Petrachenko, First Assistant Secretary, Marine Division, regarding whaling matters. Ms Petrachenko has asked me to reply on her behalf.

The Australian Government is resolutely opposed to commercial whaling, including so called 'scientific' whaling, and strongly supports the global moratorium on commercial whaling.

The Government has made intense efforts to bring an end to so-called 'scientific' whaling and improve the conservation of whales around the world. These efforts have included the unprecedented monitoring of the Japanese whaling fleet in the Southern Ocean in 2008 to gather evidence for potential use in a legal challenge, and options for international legal action remain under active consideration.

Over the last 18 months, the Government has focused on substantial diplomatic efforts and bringing forward proposals to reform the International Whaling Commission (IWC) into a modern, conservation focused organisation.

The Government believes that at this time, diplomatic options offer the best chance to bring an end to so-called 'scientific' whaling. It is also clear none of the Government’s whale conservation objectives can be achieved beyond Australian waters unless the IWC is working effectively. The IWC has been gridlocked for over a decade, and during this time the number of whales targeted in the Southern Ocean has more than doubled.

The Government has stepped up its diplomatic dialogue with Japan and other key IWC members. In addition to Mr Garrett’s efforts, the Prime Minister, the Minister for Foreign Affairs, our Special Envoy for Whale Conservation, Mr Sandy Hollway, and senior Government officials have sought to increase international support for Australia's reform agenda.

At the recent 2009 annual meeting of the IWC, Australia agreed to a further period of intense negotiations on the future of the organisation. Most importantly, Australia emphasised that we need to see real progress in the short term on so-called 'scientific' whaling.

As Mr Garrett made clear at the IWC’s annual meeting, Australia believes whale conservation is an urgent task, and we are disappointed that progress has not been faster. The Government will continue to take a constructive approach in the period ahead, but if negotiations are not on track to deliver genuine progress, then we will consider all options, including legal options.

Critically, a growing number of nations have indicated strong support for Australia's approach to whale conservation, and key elements of our reform proposals were taken up at the IWC's 2009 meeting, including:

· endorsement and broad international collaboration on the largest non-lethal whale research program in the world, the Australian-led Southern Ocean Research Partnership. The Government has committed over $14 million to the Partnership, and later this year, Australian and New Zealand scientists will undertake the first joint research voyage to Antarctica as part of this Partnership;

· adoption of our initiative to generate global action to recover endangered species of whales through conservation management plans;

· adoption of an important resolution on cetaceans and climate change; and

· formation of a new group to guide the IWC on best-practice management and support for the development of whale watching.

These are the most significant developments of the last decade in improving conservation for whales under the IWC. In addition, the Government has committed around $15 million for the Australian Marine Mammal Centre, co-located at Hobart's Australian Antarctic Division, to provide competitive grants for non-lethal research and related activities.

The Government believes that it is not enough to simply criticise so-called 'scientific' whaling without providing a credible alternative. The Southern Ocean Research Partnership, backed by the Australian Marine Mammal Centre, will deliver valuable, non‑lethal research on an international scale and demonstrate once and for all that whales do not need to be killed in the name of science.

The Government's objective of bringing a permanent end to commercial whaling, including so-called 'scientific' whaling, remains, and we will continue working intensively and comprehensively, exploring every available channel, to achieve this outcome.

In your email you also request details of Japan’s IWC commissioner. Information on IWC Commissioners can be found on the following web page: [url]http://www.iwcoffice.org/commission/members.htm[/url]

Thank you for writing on this matter.

Yours sincerely

Peter Komidar

A/g Assistant Secretary

Marine Initiatives Branch

17 August 2009[/quote]

[Erector Beast]

I'm not sure if I support the total banning of whaling, even for science. I'm sure there is some other way to go about stopping what the Japanese are doing.

[OvB]

Shall I get Japans word in on this? Maybe i'll have more luck with the Japanese commissioner than the JWA.