I really don't know what to make of this guy. I came in expecting a racist video, watching it I had to admit the guy has a few good points and things I can't disagree with, but after a while I just felt like he still blames Islam for a lot more than it deserves. The thing with the scarf and rape for instance; I thought that was quite a silly conclusion to come to.
Who is this guy? Pretty much stated points no one would even dare to say because of the fear of spreading hate speech. Really nice.
What I don't get is why people get so goddamn worked up over Religion. It could be such a great thing, helping people bond and sharing the same interests. Yet people completely miss the point and spread hate because they are not part of their group? What the shit? Why would any sane modern-world citizen want that?
I met a lot of religious people in my life and a lot of Christians didn't take the Bible literally but rather in the "read between the lines" sense and interpreted it in their own way. They were always very nice people. Ranging from Priests to Teachers they actually helped me get rid of my extreme hate for religion(yeah, the "enlighted by my Fedora" kind of blind hate) by providing reasonable points and even going as far that Christianity needs a fundamental redo.
We still have the same Religion as when it first started. 2000(or more, don't quote me on this) years have passed since then. You can't expect it to work, it needs to be adapted to the modern world!
[editline]30th April 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Loadingue;44687310]I really don't know what to make of this guy. I came in expecting a racist video, watching it I had to admit the guy has a few good points and things I can't disagree with, but after a while I just felt like he still blames Islam for a lot more than it deserves. The thing with the scarf and rape for instance; I thought that was quite a silly conclusion to come to.[/QUOTE]
Isn't that completely true though? Why is it silly?
[QUOTE=The Combine;44687345]Isn't that completely true though? Why is it silly?[/QUOTE]
"Women are forced to wear scarves, and it encourages men to rape them!" That's really easy and far-fetched. Don't you think he's exaggerating just a bit? Like, scarves cause rape and such?
[QUOTE=Kai-ryuu;44687265]hope you jackasses realize that the people that make Islam seem like it's a "violent" religion are nothing but an extremely vocal minority.
[editline].[/editline]
if we're talking out of our asses and think that minorities somhow represent the majority, then all christians are fag hating, jesus loving, republicans, black people are all pants sagging, rap loving, mongoloids, and X group is all Y and Z[/QUOTE]
An extremely vocal minority that somehow got control of several middle-eastern states and still manages to establish itself very well in newly formed governments even today.
Wasn't Islam a relatively "peaceful" religion like Christianity until the Persians came and dominated the religion with radicalism and such?
[QUOTE=cdr248;44687571]Wasn't Islam a relatively "peaceful" religion like Christianity until the Persians came and dominated the religion with radicalism and such?[/QUOTE]
Not at all.
[QUOTE=Loadingue;44687437]"Women are forced to wear scarves, and it encourages men to rape them!" That's really easy and far-fetched. Don't you think he's exaggerating just a bit? Like, scarves cause rape and such?[/QUOTE]
It's the sole reason they are wearing it because Muslim Men can't control themselves when seeing female hair. That really gives off the wrong vibes in my opinion.
[editline]30th April 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Kai-ryuu;44687265]hope you jackasses realize that the people that make Islam seem like it's a "violent" religion are nothing but an extremely vocal minority.
[editline].[/editline]
if we're talking out of our asses and think that minorities somhow represent the majority, then all christians are fag hating, jesus loving, republicans, black people are all pants sagging, rap loving, mongoloids, and X group is all Y and Z[/QUOTE]
Explain countries with Sharia Law.
[QUOTE=The Combine;44687608]It's the sole reason they are wearing it because Muslim Men can't control themselves when seeing female hair. That really gives off the wrong vibes in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
I hope you're not actually believing all Muslims have some kind of hair fetish, or I misunderstood you.
Myself, I see scarves as little more than an old and bit silly custom. I know lots of girls with scarves, and it doesn't affect them one bit. None of them. Same for men around them.
[QUOTE=Loadingue;44687736]I hope you're not actually believing all Muslims have some kind of hair fetish, or I misunderstood you.
Myself, I see scarves as little more than an old and bit silly custom. I know lots of girls with scarves, and it doesn't affect them one bit. None of them. Same for men around them.[/QUOTE]
Generalizing is always a bad thing so no :)
We are talking about that thing which hides their hair and obscures most of their body except their face right? That's just opressive IMO.
This guy says exactly what I think. I don't hate muslims, I hate islam.
[QUOTE=The Combine;44687777]Generalizing is always a bad thing so no :)
We are talking about that thing which hides their hair and obscures most of their body except their face right? That's just opressive IMO.[/QUOTE]
I can see your point, but for me, in the end it's just a scarf. I don't really see wearing a bit more cloth than other people exactly as "opressive". I really don't like it when Muslim women are forced to hide their face and entire body though. Now that's really opressive.
A lot of Muslim women actually want to though and do it of their own free will
Just as a lot don't and can get away with it because, like every other religion, fundamentalists can't make them in a free country
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;44687881]A lot of Muslim women actually want to though and do it of their own free will[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't call being raised in a very strict religious environment free-will.
I mean my parents are super christian, and they would be like "this is the right, christian thing to do, but do what you want we still love you"
[QUOTE=Glitchman;44687919]I wouldn't call being raised in a very strict religious environment free-will.
I mean my parents are super christian, and they would be like "this is the right, christian thing to do, but do what you want we still love you"[/QUOTE]
Free will in the political sense, if you wanna get all philosophical about it free will isn't even a logical concept but you know what I mean
I grew up in a pretty much atheist environment that doesn't mean me being atheist as well is not my "free will"
[QUOTE=The Combine;44687608]It's the sole reason they are wearing it because Muslim Men can't control themselves when seeing female hair. That really gives off the wrong vibes in my opinion.
[/QUOTE]
That's very strongly generalizing though. Covering up your body is done as an act of dedication to God, and many women choose to do so because of their own faith and not because they are being forced. Far from every wearer is an oppressed woman in need of rescuing, and implying this is condescending. The idea that they need to cover up to prevent being automatically raped by every Muslim male in the vicinity is just racist propaganda.
[QUOTE=Im Crimson;44688471]That's very strongly generalizing though. Covering up your body is done as an act of dedication to God, and many women choose to do so because of their own faith and not because they are being forced. Far from every wearer is an oppressed woman in need of rescuing, and implying this is condescending. The idea that they need to cover up to prevent being automatically raped by every Muslim male in the vicinity is just racist propaganda.[/QUOTE]
I'm all for cultural legitimacy, but I think the flaw in this is evident. It's not just about rape- women are covered up for men not to be attracted to them, as that is sinful to the very men, and as the women is what brought them their sin, they are just as sinful, if not worse.
[editline]30th April 2014[/editline]
You could say it's dedication to god, yes, but it's more like 'your duty' to god, and by extenction, islamic society.
[QUOTE=Kai-ryuu;44687265]hope you jackasses realize that the people that make Islam seem like it's a "violent" religion are nothing but an extremely vocal minority.
[editline].[/editline]
if we're talking out of our asses and think that minorities somhow represent the majority, then all christians are fag hating, jesus loving, republicans, black people are all pants sagging, rap loving, mongoloids, and X group is all Y and Z[/QUOTE]
You're thinking "minority" compared to the whole of Muslim population. Yes, radicals are in small numbers.
When you take a look at countries where Islam dominates, you see a different picture. Extemist wings there are not at all that small.
And then you might stumble upon Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Syria, even Egypt and Turkey, and that's just big ones. Yeah compared to all of Muslims in the world that's extremely tiny bit, but are people in those countries better off from that? I guess you should go there and calm everyone down, tell their women, gays, transsexual/transgender, kids, generally who happen to be of wrong origins that their oppressors are of extremely low quantity and they should get over the shit. Don't forget to tell the victims of religious violence (or their families if they victims themselves just so happen to die in the incident) in Europe (who are, fortunately, of miniscule numbers in comparison) that their attackers are very-very small margin of all Muslims.
[QUOTE=J-Dude;44686081]I KINDA see what you're trying to say, in that Christianity is almost-but-not-quite-as-bad as Islam when you examine it, and yet Western Civilization predominately features Christians who don't stone people and all that.
That's basically because, for how it's backslid, the revolution of secular government and reasoned ethics has dragged Christianity kicking and screaming into the realm of societal progress, to the point that most Western Christians don't use the Bible as a source for their morality. Modern values are intensely at odds with those of the Bible, but believers don't really take the Bible so seriously. They've been weened off it to the point that they believe the local cultural agreements on what right and wrong are, and when they're shown something barbaric in the Bible, they make excuses for why it's not as bad as it looks to soften the blow.
Whereas, in the Muslim world, they KNOW about the barbaric things, but they DO use the Quran as a source for their morality. And if it says it in the Quran, it's moral. It's moral, because God says so, and that's the end of the argument. They don't feel trepidation or shame for the evil shit in their book, and revel in it because Allah sanctifies it.
Neither religion is any damn good, or of any damn use in the 21st century, but one is more DIRECTLY harmful, while the other just kinda creeps around in the subconscious of its people, still doing plenty of harm, but not being as obvious to its progressively minded people.
I leave it to you as to which is worse.[/QUOTE]
Humanity has a way of causing destruction any time civilizations are established; to state that religion has a core part if in it is myopic. Claiming that the development of Western society dragged along Christianity is not exactly true either. Western society was developed with Christianity playing an integral part, especially in philosophy, art, law, and humanity.
To a lesser extent, science also benefited from the establishment of Christianity. How can this be? In a way, the maleficent examples of Christianity, such as Galileo stick out because they are an easy target to blame, especially in today's world. It is important to realize that the Catholic church, the largest charity organization on Earth, has helped provide numerous individuals the chance to contribute to the world of science by allowing them to be educated in first-world nations.
Christianity, while not serving its original purpose, as some may say, still plays a big role in humanity, and its easy to see how modern society has evolved from it.
The very core values of Christianity are humility and humanity. Blaming the religion over the people is foolish. Many of the bad connotations of religion come from Protestant Christians, which base their religion off of a person and often miss the point.
As such, it's important to realize a lot of Islam has been misinterpreted based on their culture, and that is what is spreading. A famous example of such would be the '72 virgins' actually being a mistranslation. In the Quran, the actual translation is '72 olives.'
Religion is not inherently evil, nor is it worthless.
[QUOTE=One Ear Ninja;44689068]
As such, it's important to realize a lot of Islam has been misinterpreted based on their culture, and that is what is spreading. A famous example of such would be the '72 virgins' actually being a mistranslation. In the Quran, the actual translation is '72 olives.'
[/QUOTE]
Islam as a teaching doesn't exist outside of a given culture. That is what the problem with most ideologies (yes, religion is an ideology by definition) - they don't really exist as a thing. Oh look, those guys interpeted it this way, and it's wrong, but look at those guys instead, they did it right ([i]because I like it more[/i]). Yeah, scripture, it's set in stone, right? Wrong, because scripture is [b]designed[/b] (intelligently lol) to allow interpretation and rewriting.
This is the very reason shit like this has to be abolished and forgotten completely, it has to go. Because ideology, including religion, is a weapon of cultural invasion and oppression, has been for centuries, will be in the future.
[QUOTE=gudman;44689126]Islam as a teaching doesn't exist outside of a given culture. That is what the problem with most ideologies (yes, religion is an ideology by definition) - they don't really exist as a thing. Oh look, those guys interpeted it this way, and it's wrong, but look at those guys instead, they did it right ([i]because I like it more[/i]). Yeah, scripture, it's set in stone, right? Wrong, because scripture is [b]designed[/b] (intelligently lol) to allow interpretation and rewriting.
This is the very reason shit like this has to be abolished and forgotten completely, it has to go. Because ideology, including religion, is a weapon of cultural invasion and oppression, has been for centuries, will be in the future.[/QUOTE]
Saying that religion is to be abolished altogether is a hollow statement. The quote that I had given was supposed to be a comical injection into my argument to illustrate the very point you're trying to make. Many of the people who exemplify the bad parts of religion are those who take scripture over the core values. Christianity was formed based on what many believe to be that of divine teaching, yet it was interpreted through man. The concept of Divinity is what drives beneficial religion over archaic writings.
[QUOTE=gudman;44689051]You're thinking "minority" compared to the whole of Muslim population. Yes, radicals are in small numbers.
When you take a look at countries where Islam dominates, you see a different picture. Extemist wings there are not at all that small.
And then you might stumble upon Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Syria, even Egypt and Turkey, and that's just big ones. Yeah compared to all of Muslims in the world that's extremely tiny bit, but are people in those countries better off from that? I guess you should go there and calm everyone down, tell their women, gays, transsexual/transgender, kids, generally who happen to be of wrong origins that their oppressors are of extremely low quantity and they should get over the shit. Don't forget to tell the victims of religious violence (or their families if they victims themselves just so happen to die in the incident) in Europe (who are, fortunately, of miniscule numbers in comparison) that their attackers are very-very small margin of all Muslims.[/QUOTE]
The same applies to African Christians and the small number of victims of Christian violence that exist in the western world
and of course let's also not forget that Muslims and people who look Muslim are frequently victims of violence themselves in the "civilized" Western world.
And let's [I]especially[/I] not forget that an anti-Islamist (and self-described "Christian crusader") killed 77 people in Norway, most of them teenagers.
Now, you'd just say they're nutters, and I'd agree, but that also makes it hypocritical to tie all this shit back to Islam.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;44686205]Most religions are guilty of inhumane crap but we're talking about now. And right now Islam is the most inhumane one that is for some strange reason very accepted and pampered religion. See England. Christianity does jack shit compared to Islam now. Where christians burned witches during medieval times, islamists stone people this very moment.[/QUOTE]
Do you think that illiteracy might be the reason why the vocal minority is violent and oppressive? In developing countries, the "old people are wiser" custom is strictly followed. People are easily influenced whenever it's combined with a lack of literacy and education. I think it was the same case for Christianity several years ago.
[IMG]http://puu.sh/8ubqH.png[/IMG]
This has to be bait.
[QUOTE=cdr248;44687571]Wasn't Islam a relatively "peaceful" religion like Christianity until the Persians came and dominated the religion with radicalism and such?[/QUOTE]
I'd argue the opposite, considering Zoroastrianism is pretty chill as far as religions are concerned.
Islam became a thing due to their successful invasions of not just the Persian Empire, but the Byzantine East.
Some of the things the Abbasids did to the Zoroastrians of their conquered lands is really quite humiliating.
[QUOTE=cdr248;44687571]Wasn't Islam a relatively "peaceful" religion like Christianity until the Persians came and dominated the religion with radicalism and such?[/QUOTE]
No. Muhammad himself raided weaker tribes. Read about Banu Qurayza and Umm Qirfa.
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;44690552]
Some of the things the Abbasids did to the Zoroastrians of their conquered lands is really quite humiliating.[/QUOTE]
Well find me a civilization that existed long enough to be recorded that [I]didn't[/I] humiliate and conquer others :v:
If this guy was a fallout character he would have Charisma 10 and Speech 100 and all the related speech perks.
[QUOTE=Orkel;44687810]This guy says exactly what I think. I don't hate muslims, I hate islam.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://puu.sh/8uI9E/3cbf23732a.png[/IMG]
The comments
[QUOTE=Im Crimson;44688471]That's very strongly generalizing though. Covering up your body is done as an act of dedication to God, and many women choose to do so because of their own faith and not because they are being forced. Far from every wearer is an oppressed woman in need of rescuing, and implying this is condescending. The idea that they need to cover up to prevent being automatically raped by every Muslim male in the vicinity is just racist propaganda.[/QUOTE]
Just because they buy into the oppression doesn't mean it's not oppression. What if a woman in America said "It's OK, you can pay me less than my male coworker. It's my choice though." It's still oppressive.
[QUOTE=Explosions;44693665]Just because they buy into the oppression doesn't mean it's not oppression. What if a woman in America said "It's OK, you can pay me less than my male coworker. It's my choice though." It's still oppressive.[/QUOTE]
Actually a man telling a woman how she SHOULD be dressing is oppressive regardless of which end of the spectrum it falls on
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