• It's good to be anti-Islam
    231 replies, posted
[QUOTE=One Ear Ninja;44689230] Many of the people who exemplify the bad parts of religion are those who take scripture over the core values. Christianity was formed based on what many believe to be that of divine teaching, yet it was interpreted through man. The concept of Divinity is what drives beneficial religion over archaic writings.[/QUOTE] There's no core values in any of religions. When one group of people claiming to be, say, Christian or Buddhist - murders, opresses and generally just is 'evil', and another group, also claiming to be Christian/Buddhist does something else, and everything both do is justified by scripture and their respective clergy, it means there're no core values. Just because you like some of it doesn't make the "good bits" (that are only good for you, keep that in mind, concept of human rights is not some universal truth that applies everywhere, it's an [b]invention[/b] of Western civilization) "core values". It's just another lie religion instilled in our culture, that it has some "core values". When it really doesn't. [QUOTE=Venezuelan;44689299]The same applies to African Christians and the small number of victims of Christian violence that exist in the western world and of course let's also not forget that Muslims and people who look Muslim are frequently victims of violence themselves in the "civilized" Western world. And let's [I]especially[/I] not forget that an anti-Islamist (and self-described "Christian crusader") killed 77 people in Norway, most of them teenagers. Now, you'd just say they're nutters, and I'd agree, but that also makes it hypocritical to tie all this shit back to Islam.[/QUOTE] And I didn't ever deny any of that though? What makes you think I'll prefer Christianity over Islam or vice versa? There're nutters that are violent regardless of circumstances or beliefs they hold, yes, and then there's an insitutionalized violence propagated and justified by religion.
[QUOTE=Kai-ryuu;44687265]hope you jackasses realize that the people that make Islam seem like it's a "violent" religion are nothing but an extremely vocal minority. [editline].[/editline] if we're talking out of our asses and think that minorities somhow represent the majority, then all christians are fag hating, jesus loving, republicans, black people are all pants sagging, rap loving, mongoloids, and X group is all Y and Z[/QUOTE] Pretty much this. My problem is not criticizing Islam: even some Muslims criticize certain aspects of their religion. My problem is when people in this country harass, have high suspicion of, or even beat or kill people just because they "look like a terrorist". The Islamaphobia that some media and individuals play up is fucking ridiculous. Yeah, if you criticize Islam then that's fine. This guy makes good points. But when the fuckers over at Fox News take it up another notch, like advocating for surveillance in mosques, that is [I]not[/I] acceptable.
My favourite part of videos like this is reading youtubers names in the comments section and trying to guess whether or not it will be a hate post.
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;44694010]Actually a man telling a woman how she SHOULD be dressing is oppressive regardless of which end of the spectrum it falls on[/QUOTE] I agree. That doesn't mean a woman can't be buying into her own oppression, though.
Lovin' how much false information this contains
holy shit lol
[QUOTE=Explosions;44694927]I agree. That doesn't mean a woman can't be buying into her own oppression, though.[/QUOTE] true but I think the safest thing is to just butt out it's never a good sign when an outsider is the one telling them how oppressed they are
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;44695310]true but I think the safest thing is to just butt out it's never a good sign when an outsider is the one telling them how oppressed they are[/QUOTE] Plenty of women in the Islamic world don't think that they're oppressed at all because they aren't educated. Should we just leave them be?
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;44695391]Plenty of women in the Islamic world don't think that they're oppressed at all because they aren't educated. Should we just leave them be?[/QUOTE] the hijab as oppression is based entirely in Western notions of morality you simply can't transfer it to other cultures, it's not a matter of being "educated" from their point of view our society's rampant sexualization of women in the media is far more oppressive.
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;44695426]the hijab as oppression is based entirely in Western notions of morality you simply can't transfer it to other cultures, it's not a matter of being "educated" from their point of view our society's rampant sexualization of women in the media is far more oppressive.[/QUOTE] Yeah, Western notions of morality such as equal rights and freedom of religion. Thing which are absent under the Sharia. The Quran (or maybe the hadith, can't remember) explicity tells women to "hide their beauty." It's explicitly oppressive and sexually repressive.
[QUOTE=Kai-ryuu;44687265]hope you jackasses realize that the people that make Islam seem like it's a "violent" religion are nothing but an extremely vocal minority. [editline].[/editline] if we're talking out of our asses and think that minorities somhow represent the majority, then all christians are fag hating, jesus loving, republicans, black people are all pants sagging, rap loving, mongoloids, and X group is all Y and Z[/QUOTE] That's the biggest bullshit I've heard. If your relgion consists of preaching on the methods of killing people whoever they are then it is [b]wrong[/b]. Relgion should be about love to God, and if loving god means killing another man for a way he lives, then people need to wake up, and stop following such brutality.
If you're stripping away all these separate parts from religion, and only leaving the "good" and "moral" parts, then why do you need religion at all? Just be a good person without chaining yourself to a ridiculous ideology. The fact of the matter is, all of the bad parts of religionare what make it "religion" in the first place. Unless your have a mental defect, we are all born with certain morals and an understanding of right from wrong. If you need religion to stop you from doing bad things, something is seriously wrong with you.
" [I] urge voters to shun the three old parties and vote UKIP" - a smart totally not racist man with good opinions about issues regarding Islam "I went to their website and read it quite carefully, looking for racism and fascism of course, because the media keep telling me that they are far right, but, well, I’m a little puzzled because I can find is a healthy regard for human rights, democracy and the rule of law. Not a whiff of racism or fascism and not a whiff of far-right politics of any kind." - said about the English Defense League, a neo fascist organisation, by a man whose opinions about Islam you should definitely emulate
[QUOTE=Loadingue;44687437]"Women are forced to wear scarves, and it encourages men to rape them!" That's really easy and far-fetched. Don't you think he's exaggerating just a bit? Like, scarves cause rape and such?[/QUOTE] You misunderstood what he said. His point was that by forcing the little girl to wear the scarf you are communicating to her that it is unacceptable for her to show her appearance as this is tempting to men. And if she shows her hair she would be tempting men with her appearance and the consequences of whatever action the men take would be her fault.
Islam has no place in the western world. I am unhappy that I have to be wary in my own city because of patrolling radicals who attack / shout at people who don't follow their ways. I also hate that evil such as UKIP, BNP and Britain First exist because of radical Islam that exists in Britain. Both are awful and it disgusts me.
[QUOTE=Kai-ryuu;44687265]hope you jackasses realize that the people that make Islam seem like it's a "violent" religion are nothing but an extremely vocal minority. [editline].[/editline] if we're talking out of our asses and think that minorities somhow represent the majority, then all christians are fag hating, jesus loving, republicans, black people are all pants sagging, rap loving, mongoloids, and X group is all Y and Z[/QUOTE] Hope you jackass realize that the Quran has this violence written in it which he also says in the video. Then alright there are muslims who realize that some written values are barbaric and perhaps "wrong". But it is still [b]WRITTEN.[/b]
[QUOTE=Explosions;44695528]The Quran (or maybe the hadith, can't remember) explicity tells women to "hide their beauty." It's explicitly oppressive and sexually repressive.[/QUOTE] it's really hard to nail this down, trying to say that one culture's way of going about this issue is better or worse than another's fundamentalist islam might require women to hide their beauty but modern western culture gives and takes with its oppression and control of beauty in much more complex ways that some could easily argue are worse. on the one hand, western culture relentlessly promotes and expects constructed standards of beauty, but on the other hand it has a terrible tendency to shame people for using beauty for their own benefit, being promiscuous, and showing off their beauty too much. we have entire industries worth tens of billions of dollars devoted to the control of 'beauty' so which is worse? in honesty i find it pretty hard to call. it's mostly a matter of perspective [QUOTE=Crypptic;44696267]Hope you jackass realize that the Quran has this violence written in it which he also says in the video. Then alright there are muslims who realize that some written values are barbaric and perhaps "wrong". But it is still [B]WRITTEN.[/B][/QUOTE] do you realise how much barbaric violence is in the bible? i don't really see the point in being anti islam. although of course it is a hot topic that is readily represented in the modern western world (probably massively over-represented by fear-mongering journalism and politicians), if you're going to go down the root of these things you may as well just be anti organised religion
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;44695723]If you're stripping away all these separate parts from religion, and only leaving the "good" and "moral" parts, then why do you need religion at all? Just be a good person without chaining yourself to a ridiculous ideology. The fact of the matter is, all of the bad parts of religionare what make it "religion" in the first place. Unless your have a mental defect, we are all born with certain morals and an understanding of right from wrong. If you need religion to stop you from doing bad things, something is seriously wrong with you.[/QUOTE] This kind of stuff has always confused me. "Why do people pick and choose parts of a religion? That's not how it works!" No. That's how it works. That's why religions have different schools of thought and different interprtations. They're not the fucking Borg and all believe in the exact same thing. Why is it so difficult for people like you to accept that someone can be both a good and tolerant person and happen to have religious beliefs? If every single Muslim were all part of some monolithic hive mind then there wouldn't be Muslims who are all for secular states or those who acknowledge reform is needed in certain aspects of their faith and reject some traditional interpretations of Islamic law.
[QUOTE=LiquidNazgul;44696344]This kind of stuff has always confused me. "Why do people pick and choose parts of a religion? That's not how it works!"[/quote] it gives people meaning to their life, gives them rules to follow, makes them happy, gives them a social group and sense of belonging. this shouldn't be difficult to understand [QUOTE]we are all born with certain morals and an understanding of right from wrong[/QUOTE] this isn't true at all?
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;44696312] do you realise how much barbaric violence is in the bible? i don't really see the point in being anti islam. although of course it is a hot topic that is readily represented in the modern western world (probably massively over-represented by fear-mongering journalism and politicians), if you're going to go down the root of these things you may as well just be anti organised religion[/QUOTE] Isn't that just the old testament though?
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;44686117]Well you can say all of that, but would following Islam be really a good idea? Islam is an aggressive expansionary religion, and while it is not the cause of all of the problems in the world, it does contribute to them.[/QUOTE] It's not Islam that contributes to problems in the world, it's people using it to forward their own agendas. Take away one religion and they will use another, take away religion altogether and they will use something else entirely.
[QUOTE=LiquidNazgul;44696344]This kind of stuff has always confused me. "Why do people pick and choose parts of a religion? That's not how it works!" No. That's how it works. That's why religions have different schools of thought and different interprtations. They're not the fucking Borg and all believe in the exact same thing. Why is it so difficult for people like you to accept that someone can be both a good and tolerant person and happen to have religious beliefs? If every single Muslim were all part of some monolithic hive mind then there wouldn't be Muslims who are all for secular states or those who acknowledge reform is needed in certain aspects of their faith and reject some traditional interpretations of Islamic law.[/QUOTE] I don't think you get the criticism, at all. If you believe in your chosen god, and religion, islam, christiainity, judaism, and you believe sincerely in these things, to take it upon yourself to disagree with the book, the religion itself, the tenants of the religion, to not follow that religion to the tee is thinking for yourself in a way the religion doesn't advocate. If you've made it that far, that you're willing to pick and choose which of gods words matter, then clearly you should just take the next logical step and start thinking for yourself without the requirement of religions beliefs that create a strange contradiction [editline]1st May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Scot;44696440]Isn't that just the old testament though?[/QUOTE] no
[QUOTE=LiquidNazgul;44696344]This kind of stuff has always confused me. "Why do people pick and choose parts of a religion? That's not how it works!" No. That's how it works. That's why religions have different schools of thought and different interprtations. They're not the fucking Borg and all believe in the exact same thing. Why is it so difficult for people like you to accept that someone can be both a good and tolerant person and happen to have religious beliefs? If every single Muslim were all part of some monolithic hive mind then there wouldn't be Muslims who are all for secular states or those who acknowledge reform is needed in certain aspects of their faith and reject some traditional interpretations of Islamic law.[/QUOTE] You didn't answer anything. You basically said "it's OK to pick and choose because people already pick and choose." How exactly do you determine what to pick and choose from and what to still believe? What metric is being used to determine this? A Muslim can believe that women can expose their beauty, but does he still have to believe that the prophet rode to heaven on a winged horse? If he does, what's his justification for believing in one over the other, considering both are from the same source?
[QUOTE=Explosions;44697345]You didn't answer anything. You basically said "it's OK to pick and choose because people already pick and choose." How exactly do you determine what to pick and choose from and what to still believe? What metric is being used to determine this? A Muslim can believe that women can expose their beauty, but does he still have to believe that the prophet rode to heaven on a winged horse? If he does, what's his justification for believing in one over the other, considering both are from the same source?[/QUOTE] it's 2014 and the nature of religion now is not something that is set in stone, if it ever was. you're asking "why can a muslim do this and not that" but the answer is why the hell not. why are you seeking justification? why does someone have to offer reasons why they believe one thing and not another? especially when half of this thread is people saying "i hate islam but i don't hate [i]normal[/i] muslims who aren't fundamentalist" it strikes me as odd that some others would comment "you can't pick and choose". picking and choosing is what sets people apart from fundamentalism this may come as a shock, but 99% of people are normal human beings who live normal lives and aren't ruled by infallible writings that are thousands of years old. people pick and choose stuff all the time and religion is not an exception to this. picking and choosing in religion is people saying "hey, the basic message of this book is basically to be nice to people so i'm gonna do that. i'm also going to go to church because i like the people there, i like the music, and i like praying - it makes me feel better about my life and it gives things meaning and purpose. that said i'm going to discount the stuff about killing non-believers and having women as slaves because it's 2014" if you have a problem with that then i really dont understand where you're coming from. if you feel people shouldn't be allowed to pick and choose it's like you're saying people [i]have[/i] to be fundamentalist? i don't understand that [editline]1st May 2014[/editline] i guess i agree with the idea that if people have done that much picking and choosing then they should just make shit up for themselves but that's ridiculously optimistic. people just aren't like that. that's why religion exists. and tbh who gives a fuck. the vast majority of people find happiness and comfort and friends in religion so who cares what they think. you probably know tonnes of people who have some connection to religion but you would never even know. some of your closest friends are probably religious or at least spiritual to some extent and it doesn't get in the way of your life so let it go
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;44697523]it's 2014 and the nature of religion now is not something that is set in stone, if it ever was. you're asking "why can a muslim do this and not that" but the answer is why the hell not. why are you seeking justification? why does someone have to offer reasons why they believe one thing and not another? especially when half of this thread is people saying "i hate islam but i don't hate [i]normal[/i] muslims who aren't fundamentalist" it strikes me as odd that some others would comment "you can't pick and choose". picking and choosing is what sets people apart from fundamentalism this may come as a shock, but 99% of people are normal human beings who live normal lives and aren't ruled by infallible writings that are thousands of years old. people pick and choose stuff all the time and religion is not an exception to this. picking and choosing in religion is people saying "hey, the basic message of this book is basically to be nice to people so i'm gonna do that. i'm also going to go to church because i like the people there, i like the music, and i like praying - it makes me feel better about my life and it gives things meaning and purpose. that said i'm going to discount the stuff about killing non-believers and having women as slaves because it's 2014" if you have a problem with that then i really dont understand where you're coming from. if you feel people shouldn't be allowed to pick and choose it's like you're saying people [i]have[/i] to be fundamentalist? i don't understand that[/QUOTE] So, why would you believe in one word in the bible but not the other? it takes mental gymnastics to say one has more value than the other without making a personal value judgement. it just doesn't make consistent sense. It's not like other things in life exactly. Yeah, you pick and choose what bread you like or what books you like, but you can't really argue with an objectively all powerful god who gave you a set of rules to follow. can you really argue that you would be able to pick and choose gods laws as they apply to you? It's just a level of mental gymnastics I don't see a point to if you can already rationally make the decision for yourself that you should treat other people well. You actually really don't know where he's coming from I guess.
[QUOTE=Explosions;44697345]You didn't answer anything. You basically said "it's OK to pick and choose because people already pick and choose." How exactly do you determine what to pick and choose from and what to still believe? What metric is being used to determine this?[/quote] None, because none exists. If religious people take more progressive or reformist stances on their own faith, then that does [I]not[/I] mean that they can no longer be classified as part of their faith. [quote]A Muslim can believe that women can expose their beauty, but does he still have to believe that the prophet rode to heaven on a winged horse? If he does, what's his justification for believing in one over the other, considering both are from the same source?[/QUOTE] None, because he doesn't [I]need[/I] to justify it to anyone. [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;44697266]I don't think you get the criticism, at all. If you believe in your chosen god, and religion, islam, christiainity, judaism, and you believe sincerely in these things, to take it upon yourself to disagree with the book, the religion itself, the tenants of the religion, to not follow that religion to the tee is thinking for yourself in a way the religion doesn't advocate. If you've made it that far, that you're willing to pick and choose which of gods words matter, then clearly you should just take the next logical step and start thinking for yourself without the requirement of religions beliefs that create a strange contradiction[/quote] Implying that people who think for themselves and also have religious beliefs do not exist. I'm still not so sure what's so difficult to believe about this.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;44697576]So, why would you believe in one word in the bible but not the other? it takes mental gymnastics to say one has more value than the other without making a personal value judgement.[/quote] it's not supposed to assign value to anything. do you think people think this much about anything? as much as nerds on an internet forum? of course they don't. people go to church and hear sermons about being nice to people and they think "i'm gonna be nice to people!" maybe they've never even read the bible. the only thought that goes into it is "that bit about murdering the philistines in their sleep seems a bit dated so i'm not gonna make that a part of my life mantra"
[QUOTE=LiquidNazgul;44697589]None, because none exists. If religious people take more progressive or reformist stances on their own faith, then that does [I]not[/I] mean that they can no longer be classified as part of their faith. None, because he doesn't [I]need[/I] to justify it to anyone. Implying that people who think for themselves and also have religious beliefs do not exist. I'm still not so sure what's so difficult to believe about this.[/QUOTE] No, they do exist. You're really not getting the argument at all. Religion is not about thinking for yourself. Religion is an old world explanation of how we are here and why we are here. it could very well be true for all we know. As a believer of a religion, to discard a tenant of the religion and make your own decisions shows you, yourself, do not actually need a religion in order to make 'moral' decisions'. Because of this, there's an inherit hypocrisy in being religious, but not believing in the tenants of the religion itself. I'm saying that the people who can pick and choose what morals they like the best out of a book of fables are surely capable of just dropping the rest of it and continuing on. I don't like playing the no true scotsman argument, but the idea behind religion is that it's true and its the word of god. How do you exactly pick what word of god is right and wrong without, mentally elevating yourself above your chosen god?
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;44697636]No, they do exist. You're really not getting the argument at all. Religion is not about thinking for yourself.[/QUOTE] woah woah now
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;44697614]it's not supposed to assign value to anything. do you think people think this much about anything? as much as nerds on an internet forum? of course they don't. people go to church and hear sermons about being nice to people and they think "i'm gonna be nice to people!" maybe they've never even read the bible. the only thought that goes into it is "that bit about murdering the philistines in their sleep seems a bit dated so i'm not gonna make that a part of my life mantra"[/QUOTE] yeah, just call people who discuss the topic on a different level weird nerds no, people probably don't think about it. They probably should. [editline]1st May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=One Ear Ninja;44697639]Atheists are naturally self-righteous.[/QUOTE] people are naturally self righteous.
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