[QUOTE=Mr_Awesome;44698264]It would be a pleasure.
[URL]http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_and_Homosexuality#Treatment_of_Homosexuals[/URL]
[URL]http://islamqa.info/en/38622[/URL]
[URL]http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Women#Women_are_Deficient_in_Intelligence[/URL]
Why don't you just take a step back and see what Islam is really all about? Maybe you'll reconsider.[/QUOTE]
Are you seriously using wikiislam as a source, you might as well use daily mail.
Contrary to what might be believed, that wiki is not a wiki to educate about islam. It's more one about "shaming" islam, owned by islamophobes.
Also, none of that "proof" which is cited in those pages you just sent are from the quran. And those who "are", are their own interpretation of the quran.
If you have the time to read, here is a great post by a guy on reddit about why stoning is not a thing in islam.
[URL]http://www.reddit.com/r/progressive_islam/comments/vp8jk/quranic_proof_that_there_is_no_death_penalty_for/[/URL]
[QUOTE=Mr_Awesome;44698056]You're not disgusting. Your religion is disgusting. The fact your religion openly practices the killing of homosexuals is disgusting. The fact your religion blames a woman for being raped is disgusting. The fact these things are legal in Islamic countries is disgusting. Among several other things.[/QUOTE]
killing gay people is legal in Uganda too buddy, and the population there is 84% Christian. all religions get pretty inhuman when you take away their human rights obligations.
[QUOTE=Sokrates;44698408]Are you seriously using wikiislam as a source, you might as well use daily mail.
Contrary to what might be believed, that wiki is not a wiki to educate about islam. It's more one about "shaming" islam, owned by islamophobes.
Also, none of that "proof" which is cited in those pages you just sent are from the quran. And those who "are", are their own interpretation of the quran.
If you have the time to read, here is a great post by a guy on reddit about why stoning is not a thing in islam.
[URL]http://www.reddit.com/r/progressive_islam/comments/vp8jk/quranic_proof_that_there_is_no_death_penalty_for/[/URL][/QUOTE]
Lol reading that reddit thing, the guy said that it's not adulterers that get stoned, just unbelievers. What a relief!
[editline]1st May 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Cone;44698489]killing gay people is legal in Uganda too buddy, and the population there is 84% Christian. all religions get pretty inhuman when you take away their human rights obligations.[/QUOTE]
How do you know that Mr_Awesome is supporting Christianity? I really hate when people try to defend Islam by saying "Christianity does bad things too!" Yes I agree, I dislike both.
[editline]1st May 2014[/editline]
Sokrates, do you believe that the prophet rode to heaven on a winged horse? I'd really like to know.
[QUOTE=Explosions;44698537]
How do you know that Mr_Awesome is supporting Christianity? I really hate when people try to defend Islam by saying "Christianity does bad things too!" Yes I agree, I dislike both.
[/QUOTE]
the video this thread's about calls comparing Christianity and Islam insulting and says Islam is the inferior religion of the two.
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;44698572]the video this thread's about calls comparing Christianity and Islam insulting and says Islam is the inferior religion of the two.[/QUOTE]
I thought that the video didn't mention Christianity at all so I went back to watch it in order to make sure. My suspicions were completely confirmed. He doesn't mention it one time. He mentions "the West" only three times. The entire video is only criticizing things which are [b]in Islam[/b]. So of course, you enact the classic dodge and try and make an appeal to hypocrisy, except in this case it didn't even exist. And even if he HAD been comparing Christianity to Islam, that would in no way invalidate his criticisms of it. If I were to say "Christianity is completely righteous and Islam is vile and barbaric" I would be wrong about Christianity, but I wouldn't be wrong about Islam.
Either way, I think both are terrible. So what's your argument against me, then?
[QUOTE=Explosions;44698537]How do you know that Mr_Awesome is supporting Christianity? I really hate when people try to defend Islam by saying "Christianity does bad things too!" Yes I agree, I dislike both.[/QUOTE]
because i don't really get why you would explicitly call Islam a disgusting thing when the issues it brings up clearly aren't unique in any way shape or form. double standards are super easy to slip into and all too abundant
[QUOTE=Explosions;44698537]Lol reading that reddit thing, the guy said that it's not adulterers that get stoned, just unbelievers. What a relief!
[editline]1st May 2014[/editline]
How do you know that Mr_Awesome is supporting Christianity? I really hate when people try to defend Islam by saying "Christianity does bad things too!" Yes I agree, I dislike both.
[editline]1st May 2014[/editline]
Sokrates, do you believe that the prophet rode to heaven on a winged horse? I'd really like to know.[/QUOTE]
Yeah seriously. I am an atheist, and so is Mr. Condell. I'm not saying Christianity is a better religion, there is no 'better' religion, honestly. I'm just saying it's sickening for Islam societies to exist in modern culture.
[QUOTE=Explosions;44698537]Lol reading that reddit thing, the guy said that it's not adulterers that get stoned, just unbelievers. What a relief! [/QUOTE]
Where did you read that? I can't for the life of me find it.
[QUOTE=Explosions;44698537]
[editline]1st May 2014[/editline]
Sokrates, do you believe that the prophet rode to heaven on a winged horse? I'd really like to know.[/QUOTE]
You don't need to ask these kind of questions, because I will always answer the same. I believe in what the quran says is true.
[QUOTE=Sokrates;44698748]Where did you read that? I can't for the life of me find it.
You don't need to ask these kind of questions, because I will always answer the same. I believe in what the quran says is true.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]According to scholars, the punishment for proven adultery is death by stoning, while the punishment for fornication is 100 lashes. However, there is no mention of stoning in the Qur'an except as [B]a threat to believers from non-believers[/B]{ [11:91], [18:20], [19:46], [36:18], [44:20], [26:116] }.[/QUOTE]
It's not like 100 lashes that rip and tear and rend flesh is really better than being stoned to death
[QUOTE=Mr_Awesome;44698741]Yeah seriously. I am an atheist, and so is Mr. Condell. I'm not saying Christianity is a better religion, there is no 'better' religion, honestly. I'm just saying it's sickening for Islam societies to exist in modern culture.[/QUOTE]
why specifically Islamic societies though
[QUOTE=Cone;44698766]why specifically Islamic societies though[/QUOTE]
1. Why do you think that he wouldn't extend his criticism to Christian societies if asked?
2. Why would it matter? Even if he supported a Christian society, that wouldn't make his hatred of Islam any less valid.
[QUOTE=Cone;44698766]why specifically Islamic societies though[/QUOTE]
Look at the name of the thread.
That is what is to be discussed in this thread.
[QUOTE=Explosions;44698660]I thought that the video didn't mention Christianity at all so I went back to watch it in order to make sure. My suspicions were completely confirmed. He doesn't mention it one time. He mentions "the West" only three times. The entire video is only criticizing things which are [b]in Islam[/b]. So of course, you enact the classic dodge and try and make an appeal to hypocrisy, except in this case it didn't even exist. And even if he HAD been comparing Christianity to Islam, that would in no way invalidate his criticisms of it. If I were to say "Christianity is completely righteous and Islam is vile and barbaric" I would be wrong about Christianity, but I wouldn't be wrong about Islam.
Either way, I think both are terrible. So what's your argument against me, then?[/QUOTE]
At 3:39, he doesn't specifically mention Christianity but which religion do you think the old white British man is defending? I know he specifically is an outspoken atheist and no fan of Christianity but what else could he possibly be talking about here, what other religion is compared to Islam frequently enough to even warrant commenting on it? He specifically says Islam is the worst of religions and to claim otherwise is offensive.
I don't have an argument against [I]you [/I]because there's nothing to argue about.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;44698759]It's not like 100 lashes that rip and tear and rend flesh is really better than being stoned to death[/QUOTE]
Bad reading really needs to come back.
He is saying that non-believers were threatening believers with stoning, which is the only time that stoning is ever mentioned in the quran.
Also, how the fuck is being lashed the same thing as being stoned to death.
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;44698851]At 3:39, he doesn't specifically mention Christianity but which religion do you think the old white British man is defending? I know he specifically is an outspoken atheist and no fan of Christianity but what else could he possibly be talking about here, what other religion is compared to Islam frequently enough to even warrant commenting on it? He specifically says Islam is the worst of religions and to claim otherwise is offensive.
I don't have an argument against [I]you [/I]because there's nothing to argue about.[/QUOTE]
Think about it - what would he have to gain from defending Christianity? The very religion he's done so much to work against. He's just saying Islam is on the worse end of the spectrum in modern society.
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;44698851]At 3:39, he doesn't specifically mention Christianity but which religion do you think the old white British man is defending? I know he specifically is an outspoken atheist and no fan of Christianity but what else could he possibly be talking about here, what other religion is compared to Islam frequently enough to even warrant commenting on it? He specifically says Islam is the worst of religions and to claim otherwise is offensive.
I don't have an argument against [I]you [/I]because there's nothing to argue about.[/QUOTE]
He's talking about how some people consider all religions to be on equal footing and should be respected, or how they're all just teaching the same thing or some crap like that. That is patently false. Compare Islam to a religion like Jainism, where non violence is a core value. The more radical and deranged you get as a Muslim, the more violent you become. The more radical you become as a Jain, the less violent you become. The most stringent followers of the faith cover their mouths when outside to avoid swallowing a fly, and they constantly look at the ground to make sure they don't squish an ant. All religions aren't teaching the same thing, and where they are they don't teach it equally well.
[QUOTE=Mr_Awesome;44698922]Think about it - what would he have to gain from defending Christianity? The very religion he's done so much to work against. He's just saying Islam is on the worse end of the spectrum in modern society.[/QUOTE]
He actually compares and defends both christianity and (mostly) judaism in many of his videos that I have seen. I can't really search around right now as I am going to sleep, but if you look at some of them I think you'll find something.
[QUOTE=Sokrates;44698908]Bad reading really needs to come back.
He is saying that non-believers were threatening believers with stoning, which is the only time that stoning is ever mentioned in the quran.
Also, how the fuck is being lashed the same thing as being stoned to death.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, that was bad reading. I must have gotten it confused with the other explicit commands to kill atheists in the Quran.
For people complaining about the lashing - You have watched to much passion of the christ.
It is not supposed to be "lashes that rip and tear and rend flesh", as it is mostly just to publicly embarrass the person that commited the sin
Here is footage of the "flesh tearing lashes" that you think are being dealt out.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86IwgI5vpRw[/media]
as you can see, the guys mostly shrugs off these lashes. Once again, they are not lashes for inflicting pain and suffering, they are lashes to cause embarrassment, hopefully so that a person won't commit the sin again.
They even hug him afterwards.
[editline]2nd May 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Explosions;44698946] I must have gotten it confused with the other explicit commands to kill atheists in the Quran.[/QUOTE]
Please do tell me more
[QUOTE=Sokrates;44698986]For people complaining about the lashing - You have watched to much passion of the christ.
It is not supposed to be "lashes that rip and tear and rend flesh", as it is mostly just to publicly embarrass the person that commited the sin
Here is footage of the "flesh tearing lashes" that you think are being dealt out.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86IwgI5vpRw[/media]
as you can see, the guys mostly shrugs off these lashes. Once again, they are not lashes for inflicting pain and suffering, they are lashes to cause embarrassment, hopefully so that a person won't commit the sin again.
[editline]2nd May 2014[/editline]
Please do tell me more[/QUOTE]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoHoxHD-bNU[/media]
And here's the punishment for drinking a beer. Watch at your own risk.
[editline]1st May 2014[/editline]
This is completely beside the pint anyway. Why is premarital sex punishable by anything?
[QUOTE=Explosions;44699007][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoHoxHD-bNU[/media]
And here's the punishment for drinking a beer. Watch at your own risk.[/QUOTE]
Saudiarabia are a bunch of hypocrites that follows a version of "islam" which fits them.
Hell, 99% of the royalty there drinks, does drugs, has harems etc.
They are never a good example of what Islam teaches.
[QUOTE=Sokrates;44698986]For people complaining about the lashing - You have watched to much passion of the christ.
It is not supposed to be "lashes that rip and tear and rend flesh", as it is mostly just to publicly embarrass the person that commited the sin
Here is footage of the "flesh tearing lashes" that you think are being dealt out.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86IwgI5vpRw[/media]
as you can see, the guys mostly shrugs off these lashes. Once again, they are not lashes for inflicting pain and suffering, they are lashes to cause embarrassment, hopefully so that a person won't commit the sin again.
They even hug him afterwards.
[editline]2nd May 2014[/editline]
Please do tell me more[/QUOTE]
You still defend being whipped publicly as a modern age punishment.
Wow.
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;44697523]it's 2014 and the nature of religion now is not something that is set in stone, if it ever was. you're asking "why can a muslim do this and not that" but the answer is why the hell not. why are you seeking justification? why does someone have to offer reasons why they believe one thing and not another? especially when half of this thread is people saying "i hate islam but i don't hate [i]normal[/i] muslims who aren't fundamentalist" it strikes me as odd that some others would comment "you can't pick and choose". picking and choosing is what sets people apart from fundamentalism
this may come as a shock, but 99% of people are normal human beings who live normal lives and aren't ruled by infallible writings that are thousands of years old. people pick and choose stuff all the time and religion is not an exception to this. picking and choosing in religion is people saying "hey, the basic message of this book is basically to be nice to people so i'm gonna do that. i'm also going to go to church because i like the people there, i like the music, and i like praying - it makes me feel better about my life and it gives things meaning and purpose. that said i'm going to discount the stuff about killing non-believers and having women as slaves because it's 2014"
if you have a problem with that then i really dont understand where you're coming from. if you feel people shouldn't be allowed to pick and choose it's like you're saying people [i]have[/i] to be fundamentalist? i don't understand that
[editline]1st May 2014[/editline]
i guess i agree with the idea that if people have done that much picking and choosing then they should just make shit up for themselves but that's ridiculously optimistic. people just aren't like that. that's why religion exists. and tbh who gives a fuck. the vast majority of people find happiness and comfort and friends in religion so who cares what they think. you probably know tonnes of people who have some connection to religion but you would never even know. some of your closest friends are probably religious or at least spiritual to some extent and it doesn't get in the way of your life so let it go[/QUOTE]
Most people who I debate do always end up saying something along the lines of "I only choose to believe in the good parts of the Bible (or whatever holy book)." Well then why do you even need religion? Why can't you just say "I'm going to be a good person in life" and leave it at that? What do the other contradicting and illogical parts of the religion add to your life?
[QUOTE=Mr_Awesome;44699045]You still defend being whipped publicly as a modern age punishment.
Wow.[/QUOTE]
Where did I say that it was a modern age punishment? I was just explaining how it works, showing that it isn't as horrible as people make it out to be.
The quran was told for an age where stuff like this was considered normal and modern.
The same thing goes for people calling muhammed (pbuh) a pedophile because he has sex with a ten/nine year old, something which was extremly common and normal at that time.
You can't look at the quran and compare it to our time, it just doesn't work. Values, ideas and punishments change over time. Hell, prison-time might be concidered barbaric in 100 years, what do we know?
[QUOTE=Sokrates;44699116]Where did I say that it was a modern age punishment? I was just explaining how it works, showing that it isn't as horrible as people make it out to be.
The quran was told for an age where stuff like this was considered normal and modern.
The same thing goes for people calling muhammed (pbuh) a pedophile because he has sex with a ten/nine year old, something which was extremly common and normal at that time.[/QUOTE]
Exactly why Islam is a terrible religion for today. It's extremely violent and awful in modern society.
[QUOTE=Sokrates;44699116]Where did I say that it was a modern age punishment? I was just explaining how it works, showing that it isn't as horrible as people make it out to be.
The quran was told for an age where stuff like this was considered normal and modern.
The same thing goes for people calling muhammed (pbuh) a pedophile because he has sex with a ten/nine year old, something which was extremly common and normal at that time.
You can't look at the quran and compare it to our time, it just doesn't work. Values, ideas and punishments change over time. Hell, prison-time might be concidered barbaric in 100 years, what do we know?[/QUOTE]
So are flying horses just a belief for the middle ages or what?
[QUOTE=Mr_Awesome;44699128]Exactly why Islam is a terrible religion for today. It's extremely violent and awful in modern society.[/QUOTE]
Again, what makes it terrible and awful. The only violence that islam teaches is self-defence, which is the only permitted instance where you are allowed (as a muslim) to use violence against another person.
[QUOTE=Sokrates;44699156]Again, what makes it terrible and awful. The only violence that islam teaches is self-defence, which is the only permitted instance where you are allowed (as a muslim) to use violence against another person.[/QUOTE]
You just showed lashing yourself. Also stoning as you said yourself. Oh, and the killing of homosexuals, can't forget that!
[QUOTE=Sokrates;44699116]You can't look at the quran and compare it to our time, it just doesn't work.[/QUOTE]
why be a muslim then?
[QUOTE=Sokrates;44699156]Again, what makes it terrible and awful. The only violence that islam teaches is self-defence, which is the only permitted instance where you are allowed (as a muslim) to use violence against another person.[/QUOTE]
Question. Why do you believe what is said in the Quran is true?
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