• It's good to be anti-Islam
    231 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Scot;44699169]why be a muslim then?[/QUOTE] why believe in the modern form of any ideology that has evolved over time?
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;44699203]why believe in the modern form of any ideology that has evolved over time?[/QUOTE] Great question. :v:
[QUOTE=Mr_Awesome;44699165]You just showed lashing yourself. Also stoning as you said yourself. Oh, and the killing of homosexuals, can't forget that![/QUOTE] But, Sokrates said that it was non-believers threatening believers with stoning, not the other way around... He also claimed the lashes were for embarrassment not meant to be painful. Why are you twisting his words?
[QUOTE=Valnar;44699217]But, Sokrates said that it was non-believers threatening believers with stoning, not the other way around... He also claimed the lashes were for embarrassment not meant to be painful. Why are you twisting his words?[/QUOTE] My mistake on the stoning thing. But lashes, even if they "aren't ment to be painful." I've seen some pretty vile lashings and lashing scars on the internet before, as well as violent rapings that happen to women because they weren't clothed properly.
[QUOTE=Mr_Awesome;44699214]Great question. :v:[/QUOTE] the point was that all ideologies have roots that are not longer well compatible with modern society. Greek democracy was based on a concept of citizenship that was only inclusive of land-owning males. That doesn't make the modern concept of democracy obsolete.
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;44699258]the point was that all ideologies have roots that are not longer well compatible with modern society. Greek democracy was based on a concept of citizenship that was only inclusive of land-owning males. That doesn't make the modern concept of democracy obsolete.[/QUOTE] Yes, the concept of democracy has changed over time. However, religions tend to stick to their roots, as seen by the lashes, homosexual executions, etc. And that's not compatible [B]whatsoever[/B] with today's increasingly accepting and scientific societies.
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;44698572]the video this thread's about calls comparing Christianity and Islam insulting and says Islam is the inferior religion of the two.[/QUOTE] The guys an atheist and shits on all religions. His videos are interesting. Pretty sure he supports the BNP or something. The thing I don't like about him the most though is that he believes that there is a war between all Muslims and the secular west. [editline]1st May 2014[/editline] Yeah, he opposed the "9-11 Mosque" and supports Patriot act stuff. [editline]1st May 2014[/editline] At one point Islam was progressive than Christianity. That was during the middle ages though. Islam is obviously far more backwards in practice today.
[QUOTE=Mr_Awesome;44699301]Yes, the concept of democracy has changed over time. However, religions tend to stick to their roots, as seen by the lashes, homosexual executions, etc. And that's not compatible [B]whatsoever[/B] with today's increasingly accepting and scientific societies.[/QUOTE] yes I know but Sokrates is clearly supporting a moderate non-literal religious practice just like Western Christians do and you guys are shitting on him as if he supports lashings.
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;44699341]yes I know but Sokrates is clearly supporting a moderate non-literal religious practice just like Western Christians do and you guys are shitting on him as if he supports lashings.[/QUOTE] he did say whatever the quran says is truth is what he finds to be truth so I don't know so much about that. sokrates, is sharia law okay? I know you dismissed saudi arabia with a no true scotsman argument, but why AREN'T they a good example of islam if they follow rules of islam that it dictates?
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;44699341]yes I know but Sokrates is clearly supporting a moderate non-literal religious practice just like Western Christians do and you guys are shitting on him as if he supports lashings.[/QUOTE] Like I said, I'm not Christian, and I do not support Christianity at all, as all religions are becoming (if not already have became) increasingly disproven and outdated by science. If you're going to pick apart a religion so that you only follow the good things in it, or the ones that aren't completely ridiculous, it is no longer a religion, it's just a set of ideals that you live by. For an example, here's him taking the literally, after being asked if Muhammad really flew into Heaven on a flying horse. [QUOTE=Sokrates;44698748] You don't need to ask these kind of questions, because I will always answer the same. I believe in what the quran says is true.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Sokrates;44697708]Wow, I didn't know /pol/ invaded facepunch. I seriously thought all moderators were tolerant and not ignorant people. So, what do you hate about islam. I find it silly that you hate islam but not muslims, because muslims follow islamic rules. If you mean that you "don't hate people" then you should say that instead, because one of the most idiotic things one can say is that they have nothing against christians/muslims/jews but they hate christianity/islam/judaism LINK YOUR SOURCES FROM THE QURAN, PREFERABLY FROM [url]http://quran.com/[/url][/QUOTE] Why is it so bad to be against a thing but not the people practicing it? People can be changed, so it doesn't make sense to hate the sin AND the sinner, metaphorically. I always believe that you should hate the sin, and not the sinner. Think of it this way. What sounds more logical? A smart person does something dumb. Does that make them now dumb instead of smart? Or are they still smart, but they just did a dumb thing? Same principle. You can hate what a person does or believes in without hating the person. You can hate their label they've applied to themselves without hating the person it's applied to. Hating the person who does the thing you hate is the true, full ignorance.
If a Muslim actually carried out their religion to its fullest extent and to the best of their ability, then I would hate them. I hated Osama bin Laden and the Blind Sheik and those type of people. But the fact is that most Muslims don't actually do these things, so I have no hatred for them. [editline]1st May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=SuperDuperScoot;44699411]A smart person does something dumb. Does that make them now dumb instead of smart? Or are they still smart, but they just did a dumb thing? Same principle.[/QUOTE] Exactly. This is what I say about religious people. If I say they're being dumb or moronic, I'm not saying that they're morons. I'm saying that they're morons on a certain subject. Just like I'm a moron when it comes to math or astrophysics or those things.
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;44699258]the point was that all ideologies have roots that are not longer well compatible with modern society. Greek democracy was based on a concept of citizenship that was only inclusive of land-owning males. That doesn't make the modern concept of democracy obsolete.[/QUOTE] Yeah, but democracy wasn't handed down as the immutable word of a perfect divine being. Democracy is a loose set of ideas, religion is set of absolute moral and spiritual truths. To change or cherry pick the values of a religion is to deny that it's anything more than just a philosophy.
[QUOTE=Mingebox;44699484]Yeah, but democracy wasn't handed down as the immutable word of a perfect divine being. Democracy is a loose set of ideas, religion is set of absolute moral and spiritual truths. To change or cherry pick the values of a religion is to deny that it's anything more than just a philosophy.[/QUOTE] which is why the argument that it's just a personal choice/philosophy is a little strange to me. No philosophy I know of argues it's the immutable, entirely correct view on a subject, in my experience most philosophies are very aware they're just a selective view of things religions don't really claim that. even a pluralist take on a literalist religion still is about a literalist religion.
[QUOTE=Mingebox;44699484]Yeah, but democracy wasn't handed down as the immutable word of a perfect divine being. Democracy is a loose set of ideas, religion is set of absolute moral and spiritual truths. To change or cherry pick the values of a religion is to deny that it's anything more than just a philosophy.[/QUOTE] I don't think most moderate Christians DO believe the bible is immutable word. In fact, God changes his mind multiple times in the Old Testament and is even persuaded by Abraham who is considered just a man in all of the Abrahamic faiths.
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;44699258]the point was that all ideologies have roots that are not longer well compatible with modern society. Greek democracy was based on a concept of citizenship that was only inclusive of land-owning males. That doesn't make the modern concept of democracy obsolete.[/QUOTE] Religion by definition is a defined set of organised beliefs, of which in Islam's case, mandated by a divine dictator, if not followed, instructs punishment, to change concept of a religion would be to turn against it
[QUOTE=Charybdis;44699579]Religion by definition is a defined set of organised beliefs, of which in Islam's case, mandated by a divine dictator, if not followed, instructs punishment, to change concept of a religion would be to turn against it[/QUOTE] k well that's what people have done so unless you seriously want to argue that moderate Muslims literally don't exist I don't see the point if having a brain-wracking "what even is religion" debate
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;44699612]k well that's what people have done so unless you seriously want to argue that moderate Muslims literally don't exist I don't see the point if having a brain-wracking "what even is religion" debate[/QUOTE] We're pointing out the gigantic contradiction of moderate religious belief.
[QUOTE=Charybdis;44699579]Religion by definition is a defined set of organised beliefs, of which in Islam's case, mandated by a divine dictator, if not followed, instructs punishment, to change concept of a religion would be to turn against it[/QUOTE] That just isn't true. As much permanence we like to give the scripture even Islam is filtered through centuries of theological work and it expresses itself very differently between Indonesia, Egypt, Turkey and Kazakhstan. Sure there might be extremists who demand going by the letter, but if the general population don't follow that belief or it's just inconvenient, they can push them off to the side and no religion police are going to stop them.
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;44699612]k well that's what people have done so unless you seriously want to argue that moderate Muslims literally don't exist I don't see the point if having a brain-wracking "what even is religion" debate[/QUOTE] Well duh moderate muslims exist, they just haven't put much thought if any into why they believe in such a wacko god (childhood indoctrination), today it all just seems like an awfully convenient distraction from holes in our understanding and an attempt to cling to an identity [QUOTE=Devodiere;44699783]That just isn't true. As much permanence we like to give the scripture even Islam is filtered through centuries of theological work and it expresses itself very differently between Indonesia, Egypt, Turkey and Kazakhstan.[/QUOTE] then why believe in any of it if it's so inconsistent
[QUOTE=Charybdis;44699826]then why believe in any of it if it's so inconsistent[/QUOTE] idk but the moderates aren't hurting anyone as long as we maintain a secular society so why does it matter
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;44699879]idk but the moderates aren't hurting anyone as long as we maintain a secular society so why does it matter[/QUOTE] Even "moderate" religion makes people do fucked up things, yeah they may not be killing people but they still do the lord's work on their kids' genitals and perpetuate irrational condemnation of otherwise mundane things
[QUOTE=Charybdis;44699826]Well duh moderate muslims exist, they just haven't put much thought if any into why they believe in such a wacko god (childhood indoctrination), today it all just seems like an awfully convenient distraction from holes in our understanding and an attempt to cling to an identity then why believe in any of it if it's so inconsistent[/QUOTE] Because religion is a tool to be used by people, not the other way around. People keep it for a sense of identity, a means of maintianing social stability, to give solace in the spiritual to those who want it, and because who fuckin cares if it's logically inconsistent, that's not the point of religion in the first place. What little it provides certainly outweight dropping the entire religion just because people don't follow the scripture exactly. [editline]2nd May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Charybdis;44699926]Even "moderate" religion makes people do fucked up things, yeah they may not be killing people but they still do the lord's work on their kids' genitals and perpetuate irrational condemnation of otherwise mundane things[/QUOTE] The US isn't Muslim or Jewish and they've been mutilating kids' genitals for a long time, as well as perpetuating condemnation of mundane shit. Really seems like people will do that anyway and religion is just one way among many to justify it.
[QUOTE=Charybdis;44699926]Even "moderate" religion makes people do fucked up things, yeah they may not be killing people but they still do the lord's work on their kids' genitals and perpetuate irrational condemnation of otherwise mundane things[/QUOTE] So the best you can do is circumcision and "condemnation" which they can do nothing about if we, like I said, maintain a secular society. Obviously we don't in practice even [I]have [/I]a secular society to begin with, but that's a battle for secularism not a battle against the very concept of religionreligion.
[QUOTE=Devodiere;44699927]Because religion is a tool to be used by people, not the other way around. People keep it for a sense of identity, a means of maintianing social stability, to give solace in the spiritual to those who want it[/QUOTE] Well Islam is a pretty nit picky toxic thing to gather round isn't it [quote]The US isn't Muslim or Jewish and they've been mutilating kids' genitals for a long time, as well as perpetuating condemnation of mundane shit. Really seems like people will do that anyway and religion is just one way among many to justify it.[/QUOTE] The difference is the pious have supposedly divine right to do these things and are somehow meant to be respected, the US circumcision situation is the result of medical misinformation or some shit, so they're not really comparable [QUOTE=Venezuelan;44699981]So the best you can do is circumcision and "condemnation" which they can do nothing about if we, like I said, maintain a secular society. Obviously we don't in practice even [I]have [/I]a secular society to begin with, but that's a battle for secularism not a battle against the very concept of religionreligion.[/QUOTE] My point isn't about fighting against the concept of religion as such because our religious impulse is going to stay with us anyway, but against organised religion, particularly abrahamic religion and the superstition surrounding it, and what's defined as "sin" based on those superstitions and that people do things that would otherwise be against our innate morality should it be carried out under certain religious contexts
[QUOTE=Mr_Awesome;44697993]I'm disgusted at the amount of pro-Islam in this thread. It's sickening that a society like this exists today. I mean it's just a small fraction of the posters, but even that is too much.[/QUOTE] Sorry we aren't letting you circlejerk on how much you hate religon. Continue with the box spamming and keep saying that the Quran tells us to do things, like stone gay people or forcibly convert people, without quoting specific passages. And here I thought Facepunch was one of the more tolerant and open minded places on the internet. Teaches me for being an optimist, right?
[QUOTE=Fayez;44701268]Sorry we aren't letting you circlejerk on how much you hate religon. Continue with the dumb spamming and keep saying that the Quran tells you to do things without qouting specific passages. And here I thought Facepunch was one of the more tolerant and open minded places on the internet. Teaches me for looking in the best of people, right?[/QUOTE] There was mass linking to it earlier lol.
[QUOTE=Fayez;44701268]Sorry we aren't letting you circlejerk on how much you hate religon. Continue with the dumb spamming and keep saying that the Quran tells you to do things without qouting specific passages. And here I thought Facepunch was one of the more tolerant and open minded places on the internet. Teaches me for looking in the best of people, right?[/QUOTE] Read the second chapter of it. Barely a page in and it's already talking about "great punishment" for unbelievers.
[QUOTE=Paul McCartney;44701272]There was mass linking to it earlier lol.[/QUOTE] Link them from [URL]http://quran.com/[/URL] then I'll read them.
[QUOTE=Sokrates;44698033]I am a muslim, and I love my religion. Could you tell me what makes me disgusting?[/QUOTE] As a person living in a Muslim country and brought up from a Muslim family,homophobia is one thing. And how people have no reason for being homophobic other than "muh beliefs" [editline]2nd May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Sokrates;44698215] Hating islam is the same as hating a muslim, as a muslim is a follower of islam.[/QUOTE] And Muslims aren't robots. Just like most other religious followers,most of them only follow the stuff that suits them
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