Republican candidates debate to begin at 8 p.m. EST v. we told them the wealth would trickle down - General

[QUOTE=1/4 Life;32739668]What about payroll tax? Investment tax? State tax? Local tax? Are you willfully ignorant, or just ignorant?[/QUOTE] He only specified income taxes. And as for your other points, under 9-9-9 even poor people would be taxed less due to the elimination of the payroll tax

[QUOTE=SomeRandomGuy16;32739658]The 9-9-9 plan eliminates the current tax code, and thus all its loopholes.[/QUOTE] It also eliminates all tax breaks for those living at and below the poverty line.

[QUOTE=]What about payroll tax? Investment tax? State tax? Local tax? Are you willfully ignorant, or just ignorant?[/QUOTE] Here, some light reading for you. [url]http://www.hermancain.com/999plan[/url] And I love how this entire time, we've been pushing counter-arguments back at you, and you've responded just about every time with an insult. Really helps your credibility to start calling people "ignorant", "fucking parrot"s, and God knows what else you'll suddenly decide we are.

[QUOTE=SomeRandomGuy16;32739720]He only specified income taxes.[/QUOTE] His argument stems from the fact that middle class citizens, and below, can receive enough government benefits to completely cover the income tax (Hence 'not paying' income taxes). The problem with that argument is it completely skips all other taxes.

[QUOTE=1/4 Life;32739737]It also eliminates all tax breaks for those living at and below the poverty line.[/QUOTE] Well obviously. There is no need for them when they are already paying half the taxes (payroll taxes are currently at about 17.5% IIRC) [editline]11th October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=1/4 Life;32739746]His argument stems from the fact that middle class citizens, and below, can receive enough government benefits to completely cover the income tax (Hence 'not paying' income taxes). The problem with that argument is it completely skips all other taxes.[/QUOTE] We're talking about the 999 plan here. Those taxes don't exist under the 999 plan.

[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;32739740]Here, some light reading for you. [url]http://www.hermancain.com/999plan[/url][/QUOTE] "About 22% of taxpayers, primarily low-income earners, pay no taxes and even get money back from tax credits, according to Roberton Williams, senior fellow for the Tax Policy Center. Credits they get for things like having children and the earned income tax credit offset the money they own in payroll taxes. And since they'd be paying a 9% sales tax under Cain's proposal, their dollars won't go as far." [editline]11th October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=SomeRandomGuy16;32739760]Well obviously. There is no need for them when they are already paying half the taxes (payroll taxes are currently at about 17.5% IIRC) [editline]11th October 2011[/editline] We're talking about the 999 plan here. Those taxes don't exist under the 999 plan.[/QUOTE] If your reasons for wanting to switch to that plan are false then you're going to create problems. You need to identify the actual issues before you jump in and completely replace something, or else you'll end up with issues like the one in the quote above. Keep in mind that I'm not defending the current tax system by any means.

[QUOTE=1/4 Life;32739770]"About 22% of taxpayers, primarily low-income earners, pay no taxes and even get money back from tax credits, according to Roberton Williams, senior fellow for the Tax Policy Center. Credits they get for things like having children and the earned income tax credit offset the money they own in payroll taxes. And since they'd be paying a 9% sales tax under Cain's proposal, their dollars won't go as far." [/quote] Payroll taxes are ELIMINATED under 999, for the millionth time. This quote is not only without a source, its also incorrect in its interpretation of the 999 plan.

[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;32739802]Payroll taxes are ELIMINATED under 999, for the millionth time. This quote is not only without a source, its also incorrect in its interpretation of the 999 plan.[/QUOTE] [url]http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/11/news/economy/Herman_Cain_999_tax/index.htm?source=yahoo_hosted[/url] Please, inform me how it is incorrect.

[QUOTE=1/4 Life;32739817][url]http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/11/news/economy/Herman_Cain_999_tax/index.htm?source=yahoo_hosted[/url] Please, inform me how it is incorrect.[/QUOTE] Some of the people in that article are misinterpreting it and don't seem to understand that it completely removes the current tax code.

[QUOTE=1/4 Life;32739817][url]http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/11/news/economy/Herman_Cain_999_tax/index.htm?source=yahoo_hosted[/url] Please, inform me how it is incorrect.[/QUOTE] Had to fucking google the quote to find it, thank you. Credibility is soaring here, people. [quote=money.cnn.com]About 22% of taxpayers, primarily low-income earners, pay no taxes and even get money back from tax credits, according to Roberton Williams, senior fellow for the Tax Policy Center. [B]Credits they get for things like having children and the earned income tax credit offset [U]the money they own in payroll taxes[/U]. And since they'd be paying a 9% sales tax under Cain's proposal, their dollars won't go as far.[/B][/quote] [quote=hermancain.com]Phase 1 - 9-9-9 Current circumstances call for bolder action. The Phase 1 Enhanced Plan incorporates the features of Phase One and gets us a step closer to Phase two. I call on the Super Committee to pass the Phase 1 Enhanced Plan along with their spending cut package. The Phase 1 Enhanced Plan unites Flat Tax supporters with Fair tax supporters. Achieves the broadest possible tax base along with the lowest possible rate of 9%. [B] It ends the [U]Payroll Tax[/U] completely – a permanent holiday![/B] Zero capital gains tax Ends the Death Tax. Eliminates double taxation of dividends Business Flat Tax – 9% Gross income less all investments, all purchases from other businesses and all dividends paid to shareholders. Empowerment Zones will offer additional deductions for payroll employed in the zone. Individual Flat Tax – 9%. Gross income less charitable deductions. Empowerment Zones will offer additional deductions for those living and/or working in the zone. National Sales Tax – 9%. This gets the Fair Tax off the sidelines and into the game. [/quote] That informed enough for you??

[QUOTE=SomeRandomGuy16;32739845]Some of the people in that article are misinterpreting it and don't seem to understand that it completely removes the current tax code.[/QUOTE] The issue in the quote cannot be misinterpreted. If people below the poverty line have to pay 9% tax under this system, where as right now they actually get money back from the tax system, they'll be even poorer. You two aren't reading the quote.

Is this thread [I]really[/I] turning into a debate about the flat tax?

[QUOTE=1/4 Life;32739854]The issue in the quote cannot be misinterpreted. If people below the poverty line have to pay 9% tax under this system, where as right now they actually get money back from the tax system, they'll be even poorer. You two aren't reading the quote.[/QUOTE] and you aren't reading the data we're presenting to you. With the money they SAVE from the elimination of payroll taxes, they gain that much more a month to buy the things they need, things that will be majorly cheaper since the entire tax code is being replaced with the 3 things stated very clearly in 999. I honestly do not see how this is an issue. [editline]12th October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=fenwick;32739872]Is this thread [I]really[/I] turning into a debate about the flat tax?[/QUOTE] Oh dear. it is, isn't it. :\ derail thread, anyone?

flat tax and fair tax is a terrible idea anyway.

[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;32739892]and you aren't reading the data we're presenting to you. With the money they SAVE from the elimination of payroll taxes, they gain that much more a month to buy the things they need, things that will be majorly cheaper since the entire tax code is being replaced with the 3 things stated very clearly in 999. I honestly do not see how this is an issue. [editline]12th October 2011[/editline] Oh dear. it is, isn't it. :\ derail thread, anyone?[/QUOTE] I honestly don't know how to respond to this. These people don't 'pay' taxes; they get enough money back from tax breaks that their actual tax relative to income is incredibly tiny, or even non existent (A net income). There's no tax code to look into or overlook; under the 999 system they'll pay more than they do now when they simply can't afford it.

[QUOTE=1/4 Life;32739922]I honestly don't know how to respond to this. These people don't 'pay' taxes; they get enough money back from tax breaks that their actual tax relative to income is incredibly tiny, or even non existent (A net income). There's no tax code to look into or overlook; under the 999 system they'll pay more than they do now when they simply can't afford it.[/QUOTE] HNNG i'm done arguing this. Without hard numbers (which you will probably dismiss as propaganda, and then proceed to call me a parrot or something) I can't prove anything to you. Cain12, i'm going to bed.

keep your propaganda to yourself you parrot

[img]http://annenahm.com/anneimage/2009/11/Michael+Jackson+Jackson_popcorn.gif[/img] Gentlemen, continue.

But I don wanna. 1/4 life is boring to debate with.

[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;32738987]punishing successful people for being successful. Oh wait, no thats whats going on right now. Those successful bastards and their success. I think their money is better spent paying for half the country to keep re-electing me rather than being spent on things that the successful dude earned with the money that he earned. cause that makes sense.[/QUOTE] so being born into a rich family is successful then?

[QUOTE=Contag;32743978]so being born into a rich fiamily is successful then?[/QUOTE] If you are born into a rich family, are you guaranteed a high paying job and automatic entry into the "lets pay the whole countries income taxes club" that is the top 10%? My parents are affected by this crap thats going on right now, making over 100,000 annually and all, and yet i'm sending this from a traffic ticket payment center making barely over minimum wage. I was born into a "rich" family, but I am FAR from rich myself.

So I thought, well, I don't know too much about Herman's proposal, so I went to the link. [quote]We can not spend our way to prosperity.[/quote] [quote]Investors who fund those entrepreneurs likewise take risks.[/quote] So the government spending and investing in resources (like human capital via healthcare, logistics, defense, or large-scale projects etc.) is what exactly? [quote]A dollar must always be a dollar just as an hour is always 60 minutes.[/quote] Hey guys, macroeconomics 101 just called, apparently you left inflation on the highway and sped off? [quote]The natural state of our economy is prosperity.[/quote] Which is precisely why the 'releasing into the wild' of investors via deregulation lead to massive failure in many sectors of the American economy, right? [quote]If the President’s goal was to tie for last place with the previous worst recovery, he failed by 6 million jobs.[/quote] And yet he increased the GDP by trillions of dolla- oh wait maybe we shouldn't compare points in time without adjusting for factors like population and GDP. /givesup [editline]13th October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=S31-Syntax;32744146]If you are born into a rich family, are you guaranteed a high paying job and automatic entry into the "lets pay the whole countries income taxes club" that is the top 10%? My parents are affected by this crap thats going on right now, making over 100,000 annually and all, and yet i'm sending this from a traffic ticket payment center making barely over minimum wage. I was into a "rich" family, but I am FAR from rich myself.[/QUOTE] Better education better healthcare capital for investment etc. So how much tax do you pay at the moment? Your parents aren't rich by the way, they're at the 80th percentile. I mean, comparatively well off, absolutely, but not rich in the way I'm using it.

[QUOTE=Contag;32744195] Better education better healthcare capital for investment etc. So how much tax do you pay at the moment? Your parents aren't rich by the way, they're at the 80th percentile. I mean, comparatively well off, absolutely, but not rich in the way I'm using it.[/QUOTE] I pay a little over 10%. And yeah, they are by no means "rich", but they fall under Obama's wide area "punish people with money so that the half of the country that doesn't pay taxes can continue to sit on their ass and vote for me." plan. Needless to say, they don't like Obama.

[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;32744421]I pay a little over 10%. [/QUOTE] I didn't realize income tax was so high for low-income earners. In Australia it is 0% for the first $6,000, then the effective tax rate scales from 0 - 12.6% from 6k to ~38k. We do have a value-added tax of 10%, but most basic food items are exempt, and the government increased welfare payments at the same time. After 180k a year, income tax shoots up to 45%.

[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;32744421]I pay a little over 10%. And yeah, they are by no means "rich", but they fall under Obama's wide area "punish people with money so that the half of the country that doesn't pay taxes can continue to sit on their ass and vote for me." plan. Needless to say, they don't like Obama.[/QUOTE] Why do people like you insist that taxes = punishment?

[QUOTE=Led Zeppelin;32745422]Why do people like you insist that taxes = punishment?[/QUOTE] I'm not. If I were, then i wouldn't be supporting 999. I think that increasing the taxes on people that are already paying close to 3/4 of the taxes right now is punishment for being successful. "Your tax rate is what... 25 percent of your paycheck? Pfft, thats not nearly enough. Lets try 30." Making the top earners continue to support people that they don't know, like, see, or even somewhat interact with is a little unfair to those people, and lures those people down there into thinking that they deserve to be supported by other people instead of supporting themselves. Some people are incapable of supporting themselves, I know this, and its really sad. But forcing this massive divide between economic classes and starting this crusade against anyone with a high income is wrong. Having a rallying call that amounts to "The rich aren't paying enough taxes, they aren't paying their fair share!" and purposefully painting the wealthy as bad people is wrong.

[QUOTE=Eudoxia;32736301]I'd honestly rather have Captain Crazy Creationist (Ron Paul) than all those other misogynistic fifteenth-century clergymen that are the Republican candidates. *Clergymen and clergylady.[/QUOTE] So do you really think Michelle Bachmann cuts herself every night or are you just too dense to realise that some people actually think abortion is murder [editline]12th October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=lulzbocksV2;32737833]Holy shit. This is the best candidate ever.[/QUOTE] He vetoed 750 bills in his time as a governor, he'd be another Clinton. [editline]12th October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Atlascore;32739206]Do you realize how ignorant you are by being a Republican and supporting Ron Paul?[/QUOTE] I know, right? Ron Paul wants to give the states more power, but [i]the states disagree with me[/i]. Everyone knows you [i]take[/i] power from institutions that disagree with you. That's how you stop tyranny! [editline]12th October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=MasterG;32744653]Can't wait for the Republicans to argue how they're both true christian AND refusing to give money to the poor. That's always funny.[/QUOTE] Charity is God's work, not Caesar's.

Ron Paul is the president of youtube

[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;32744421]Obama's wide area "punish people with money so that the half of the country that doesn't pay taxes can continue to sit on their ass and vote for me." plan[/QUOTE] Really, so you're going to complain about people misinterpreting that 9-9-9 plan while at the same time completely mischaracterizing Obama's plan? Great job, hypocrite.

You know, if you take 9-9-9 and flip it upside down, it's 6-6-6. Just sayin'.