Republican candidates debate to begin at 8 p.m. EST v. we told them the wealth would trickle down - General

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;32753384]Really, so you're going to complain about people misinterpreting that 9-9-9 plan while at the same time completely mischaracterizing Obama's plan? Great job, hypocrite.[/QUOTE] Indeed. Now's your chance to explain what he's trying to do.

[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;32746804]I'm not. If I were, then i wouldn't be supporting 999. I think that increasing the taxes on people that are already paying close to 3/4 of the taxes right now is punishment for being successful. "Your tax rate is what... 25 percent of your paycheck? Pfft, thats not nearly enough. Lets try 30." Making the top earners continue to support people that they don't know, like, see, or even somewhat interact with is a little unfair to those people, and lures those people down there into thinking that they deserve to be supported by other people instead of supporting themselves. Some people are incapable of supporting themselves, I know this, and its really sad. But forcing this massive divide between economic classes and starting this crusade against anyone with a high income is wrong. Having a rallying call that amounts to "The rich aren't paying enough taxes, they aren't paying their fair share!" and purposefully painting the wealthy as bad people is wrong.[/QUOTE] The graduated tax isn't punishment by any means. If you were born wealthy, then you've done no work. If you rose from the bottom, then you used public services and are now paying for the next generation of successful people. You act as if people are successful on their own.

[QUOTE=CommunistCookie;32754029]The graduated tax isn't punishment by any means. If you were born wealthy, then you've done no work. If you rose from the bottom, then you used public services and are now paying for the next generation of successful people. You act as if people are successful on their own.[/QUOTE] And you reply in a way that implies that successful people use underhanded means to achieve their success.

[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;32754136]And you reply in a way that implies that successful people use underhanded means to achieve their success.[/QUOTE] Where did I imply that?

[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;32754136]And you reply in a way that implies that successful people use underhanded means to achieve their success.[/QUOTE] nice persecution complex. the fact of the matter is, there's no such thing as a self-made man, if you're rich as hell you either stepped over others or were helped out by others to get there. higher taxes is how the incredibly wealthy can give back to the country that allowed them to reach such heights.

[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;32753950]Indeed. Now's your chance to explain what he's trying to do.[/QUOTE] Here's a detailed yet simple list of the key provisions in his plan: 1. Cutting and suspending $245 billion worth of payroll taxes for qualifying employers and 160 million medium to low income employees. 2. Spending $62 billion for a Pathways Back to Work Program for expanding opportunities for low-income youth and adults. 3. Spending $50 billion on both new & pre-existing infrastructure projects. 4. Spending $49 billion on extending unemployment benefits for up to 6 million long-term beneficiaries. 5. Spending $35 billion in additional funding to protect the jobs of teachers, police officers, and firefighters. 6. Spending $30 billion to modernizing at least 35,000 public schools and community colleges. 7. Spending $15 billion on a program that would hire construction workers to help rehabilitate and refurbishing hundreds of thousands of foreclosed homes and businesses. 8. Creating the National Infrastructure Bank (capitalized with $10 billion), originally proposed in 2007, to help fund infrastructure via private and public capital. 9. Creating a nationwide, interoperable wireless network for public safety, while expanding accessibility to high-speed wireless services. 10. Creating additional regulations on businesses who discriminate against hiring those who are long-term unemployed. [editline]12th October 2011[/editline] As for the bill's funding, it'll come from letting the Bush Tax Cuts expire and introducing a 5% surtax on people making over $1,000,000 a year.

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;32754440]Here's a detailed yet simple list of the key provisions in his plan: 1. Cutting and suspending $245 billion worth of payroll taxes for qualifying employers and 160 million medium to low income employees. 2. Spending $62 billion for a Pathways Back to Work Program for expanding opportunities for low-income youth and adults. 3. Spending $50 billion on both new & pre-existing infrastructure projects. 4. Spending $49 billion on extending unemployment benefits for up to 6 million long-term beneficiaries. 5. Spending $35 billion in additional funding to protect the jobs of teachers, police officers, and firefighters. 6. Spending $30 billion to modernizing at least 35,000 public schools and community colleges. 7. Spending $15 billion on a program that would hire construction workers to help rehabilitate and refurbishing hundreds of thousands of foreclosed homes and businesses. 8. Creating the National Infrastructure Bank (capitalized with $10 billion), originally proposed in 2007, to help fund infrastructure via private and public capital. 9. Creating a nationwide, interoperable wireless network for public safety, while expanding accessibility to high-speed wireless services. 10. Creating additional regulations on businesses who discriminate against hiring those who are long-term unemployed. [editline]12th October 2011[/editline] As for the bill's funding, it'll come from letting the Bush Tax Cuts expire and introducing a 5% surtax on people making over $1,000,000 a year.[/QUOTE] That's great! That'll surely create thousands of jobs..... .... for anyone lucky enough to be in the construction, education, law enforcement/civil service industries. Maybe it'll help out kids in under performing schools that need upgrades. But what about the rest of us?

[QUOTE=SPESSMEHREN;32754581]That's great! That'll surely create thousands of jobs..... .... for anyone lucky enough to be in the construction, education, law enforcement/civil service industries. Maybe it'll help out kids in under performing schools that need upgrades. But what about the rest of us?[/QUOTE] Oh yeah, and then there's that little note down there at the bottom... [quote=megafanx13]As for the bill's funding, it'll come from letting the Bush Tax Cuts expire and introducing a 5% surtax on people making over $1,000,000 a year. [/quote] "Where do we get the money for all of this?" 'Well, those rich assholes have a bit of money, lets tax them some more so that we can do a bunch of shit that will never even come back to them. And then never thank them for us taking more of their money."

[QUOTE=SPESSMEHREN;32754581]That's great! That'll surely create thousands of jobs..... .... for anyone lucky enough to be in the construction, education, law enforcement/civil service industries. Maybe it'll help out kids in under performing schools that need upgrades. But what about the rest of us?[/QUOTE] Those are pretty important industries, and really there's no way to lift every industry at once, you're lying to yourself if you think tax cuts or deregulation is going to accomplish that. [editline]12th October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=S31-Syntax;32754682]"Where do we get the money for all of this?" 'Well, those rich assholes have a bit of money, lets tax them some more so that we can do a bunch of shit that will never even come back to them. And then never thank them for us taking more of their money."[/QUOTE] "Tax them some more"? What world do you live in where letting what was supposed to be a temporary tax cut expire is "stealing money from the rich"?

[QUOTE=fenwick;32753746]You know, if you take 9-9-9 and flip it upside down, it's 6-6-6. Just sayin'.[/QUOTE] How is that relevant

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;32754440] As for the bill's funding, it'll come from letting the Bush Tax Cuts expire and[B] introducing a 5% surtax[/B] on people making over $1,000,000 a year.[/QUOTE] [editline]12th October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Lachz0r;32754424]nice persecution complex. the fact of the matter is, there's no such thing as a self-made man, if you're rich as hell you either stepped over others or were helped out by others to get there. higher taxes is how the incredibly wealthy can give back to the country that allowed them to reach such heights.[/QUOTE] Here's what things kinda look like right now. One dude is tired of living on gov checks and does something about it, so he makes a business, and happens upon a market that is just lined with profit. Through whatever process he takes to get there, he eventually gets very successful. Now over a quarter of the profits that HE earned is being taken from him and given to the class he just left. Did he ask for this? Doubt it. Is he happy paying substantially more than everyone else simply because he got to the top? Doubt it. Is he appreciative of the very country he loves turning around, seeing his wealth and the amount he already pays, and then deciding they want more of it? Hell no. At the same time there is part of the other side of this. Dude just lost his job for X reason, he can't get back in because of Y. Regardless, he now lives off of disability checks and welfare. Time comes for him to get a job again, and he looks around and the only jobs he can find offer less than his welfare and disability checks combined. getting this job will likely make him lose those checks, he'd actually end up worse off by going back to work. Does he go back to work? Pfft, no, he makes more sitting around doing nothing. And then there are the people that are in the lower class who literally voted for Obama on the grounds that they think he promised them free money. [quote][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI&feature=related[/media][/quote] Where is that free money going to come from? Certainly not her, it'll come from people with a lot of money in the form of increased income taxes. We all get to pay additional taxes for something that won't kick in until AFTER Obama leaves office. The instant another president hits that office, that's going to get repealed, and we probably won't get that money back. Obama's administration has caused more economic damage in the 3 years he's been in office than any other president in the history of the United States of America. We used to be in the top 5 countries of the world in terms of economic power, and now we're 9th, below China. [quote][URL=http://imgur.com/sEuAz.png][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/sEuAz.png[/IMG][/URL][/quote]

[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;32754682]Oh yeah, and then there's that little note down there at the bottom... "Where do we get the money for all of this?" 'Well, those rich assholes have a bit of money, lets tax them some more so that we can do a bunch of shit that will never even come back to them. And then never thank them for us taking more of their money."[/QUOTE] Straw man. It's already been stated multiple times. The rich who actually worked to get to where they are didn't do so alone. The system has helped them, now it's time for them to help the system and give rise to the next generation of industrial leaders. Rinse and repeat. We don't simply hate rich people because they have more money. They aren't seeing the benefits of what they're paying into because they already had their turn. [QUOTE=S31-Syntax;32755027][editline]12th October 2011[/editline] Here's what things kinda look like right now. One dude is tired of [b]living on gov checks[/b] and does something about it, so he makes a business, and happens upon a market that is just lined with profit.[/QUOTE] Right there motherfucker. Your own example is of someone who was taking advantage of the taxpayer money before becoming rich and successful. He has an obligation to pay back into the system that helped get him where he was. This doesn't only apply to people who were on welfare.

[QUOTE=CommunistCookie;32755855] Right there motherfucker. Your own example is of someone who was taking advantage of the taxpayer money before becoming rich and successful. He has an obligation to pay back into the system that helped get him where he was. This doesn't only apply to people who were on welfare.[/QUOTE] Again with the insults and name calling, I haven't said shit about anyone on here and all I've been getting is shit in return. And he IS paying back the system. I never said he hated taxes in general, I said he didn't like increased taxes because some dumbass promised a shitton of people free money. The system is demanding more of him every fucking year because people aren't happy and don't think he's paying enough of their bills. [editline]13th October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=CommunistCookie;32755855] Rinse and repeat. We don't simply hate rich people because they have more money. They aren't seeing the benefits of what they're paying into because they already had their turn.[/QUOTE] So wait, everyone deserves a turn at being rich? ...is it my turn soon?

[QUOTE=CommunistCookie;32755855]It's already been stated multiple times. The rich who actually worked to get to where they are didn't do so alone. The system has helped them, now it's time for them to help the system and give rise to the next generation of industrial leaders. Rinse and repeat. We don't simply hate rich people because they have more money. They aren't seeing the benefits of what they're paying into because they already had their turn.[/QUOTE] We want to get rid of the system, not let it stay where it is and get even more bloated.

[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;32754682]"Where do we get the money for all of this?" 'Well, those rich assholes have a bit of money, lets tax them some more so that we can do a bunch of shit that will never even come back to them. And then never thank them for us taking more of their money."[/QUOTE] I don't think there's a job in the world where you earn $1 000 000 a year where you're not exploiting someone else's cheap labour. [editline]13th October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=S31-Syntax;32755027] Where is that free money going to come from? Certainly not her, it'll come from people with a lot of money in the form of increased income taxes. We all get to pay additional taxes for something that won't kick in until AFTER Obama leaves office. The instant another president hits that office, that's going to get repealed, and we probably won't get that money back. Obama's administration has caused more economic damage in the 3 years he's been in office than any other president in the history of the United States of America. We used to be in the top 5 countries of the world in terms of economic power, and now we're 9th, below China.[/QUOTE] Are you even serious? The problem with the economy is extreme military spending and banks being dicks to increase profits.

[QUOTE=sp00ks;32757625] Are you even serious? The problem with the economy is extreme military spending and banks being dicks to increase profits.[/QUOTE] I agree completely! Our defense spending is nearly equal to the other major powers [I]combined.[/I] And why are the banks being dicks? Because they know that when they get in trouble, the government will bail them out! And where does the money to do that come from? Taxpayers! ESPECIALLY the ones higher up. [editline]13th October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=sp00ks;32757625]I don't think there's a job in the world where you earn $1 000 000 a year where you're not exploiting someone else's cheap labour.[/QUOTE] Thats a moot point, everything that everyone does ever exploits someone else's cheap labour.

[QUOTE=fenwick;32753746]You know, if you take 9-9-9 and flip it upside down, it's 6-6-6. Just sayin'.[/QUOTE] Unrelated but can someone tell me why the republican elephant logo flipped its stars upside down in 2000?

Small tip for all who forget this : Ron Paul you might say But Obama can have a 2nd term.

[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;32759400]I agree completely! Our defense spending is nearly equal to the other major powers [I]combined.[/I] And why are the banks being dicks? Because they know that when they get in trouble, the government will bail them out! And where does the money to do that come from? Taxpayers! ESPECIALLY the ones higher up.[/quote] Okay, so don't bail out banks or derivative traders, I agree. However, the assertion that we can't raise taxes on the wealthy because then we'd be stealing it from them is preposterous. Were the tax rates of the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, and even 80s considered "stealing from the rich"? I can tell you right now they were much, much higher.

Yes, yes they were much higher then. Were we in a recession at that point in time? Pfft. No. We were doing pretty damn well at those points in time. We're in a recession now, the LAST thing we need to do is raise taxes some more. We've been steadily climbing up until about... 2000. and we've hung out around that same level for about a decade. In that decade, income taxes against the wealthy have risen, yet our economic health hasn't changed a bit. Right now its dropping pretty hard, and people want more money from them? [editline]13th October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Talkbox;32760767]Unrelated but can someone tell me why the republican elephant logo flipped its stars upside down in 2000?[/QUOTE] I have absolutely no clue. CONSPIRACY. :O [editline]13th October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Itsjustguy;32762668]Small tip for all who forget this : Ron Paul you might say But Obama can have a 2nd term.[/QUOTE] He sure can, but at this point there are a helluva lot of people that just want him gone.

Faggots are dangerous to society Christianity is right Atheists should be put on a cross Fox news are the only true media

[QUOTE=znk666;32765633]Faggots are dangerous to society Christianity is right Atheists should be put on a cross Fox news are the only true media[/QUOTE] Pornography must be banned Christianity must be our official religion Politics isn't about whats best for the people, its about what is best in God's eyes. The devil is in the details Bachman2012 -whoooo- EDIT: Lol, look. we got dumbed cause someone can't read a thread.

[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;32756430]Again with the insults and name calling, I haven't said shit about anyone on here and all I've been getting is shit in return.[/quote] Oh shut up. It was used to emphasize, not to insult. [QUOTE=S31-Syntax;32756430]And he IS paying back the system. I never said he hated taxes in general, I said he didn't like increased taxes because some dumbass promised a shitton of people free money. The system is demanding more of him every fucking year because people aren't happy and don't think he's paying enough of their bills. [editline]13th October 2011[/editline] So wait, everyone deserves a turn at being rich? ...is it my turn soon?[/QUOTE] If you're talking about a flat tax, then he isn't doing any more than he was before he became rich and successful. I'm certainly not going to argue that the current system is perfect, but just because a few people take advantage of the welfare system and other benefits doesn't mean it's just "free money". It's necessity and helps more than it hurts. I said that they've had their turn at receiving said benefits (they're too rich now), now it's time to pay into them for the next generation.

[QUOTE=CommunistCookie;32769789]Oh shut up. It was used to emphasize, not to insult.[/quote] And now you're telling me to shut up, lovely. [QUOTE=CommunistCookie;32769789]If you're talking about a flat tax, then he isn't doing any more than he was before he became rich and successful.[/quote] Explain. [QUOTE=CommunistCookie;32769789]I'm certainly not going to argue that the current system is perfect, but just because a few people take advantage of the welfare system and other benefits doesn't mean it's just "free money". It's necessity and helps more than it hurts.[/quote] A few people? At this point its only a few people that are using it for its intended purpose. Most people now are abusing it. [QUOTE=CommunistCookie;32769789]I said that they've had their turn at receiving said benefits (they're too rich now), now it's time to pay into them for the next generation.[/QUOTE] Not only does this post not make much sense, but from what I can get from it... Rich people have had their turn at being rich, so now they must give up their wealth so other people can be rich. This isn't a fucking clubhouse or a sleepover. We aren't playing "Wallstweet" with our buddies, and I highly disagree with the "its my tuuuuuuuuuurn!" claim. Its sounds a helluva lot like socialism, and last I checked this was a capitalist nation.

[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;32771188]And now you're telling me to shut up, lovely.[/QUOTE] Having fun playing victim? [QUOTE=S31-Syntax;32771188]Explain.[/QUOTE] Flat tax means he is paying the exact same percentage as the poor, regardless of the fact that he can afford to pay much, much more due to the wealth he amassed through the help of others and the government. [QUOTE=S31-Syntax;32771188]A few people? At this point its only a few people that are using it for its intended purpose. Most people now are abusing it.[/QUOTE] A lot? Maybe. Most, bullshit. I'm all for making the system more efficient, but removing it would fuck over a lot of people in addition to those who are abusing it. [QUOTE=S31-Syntax;32771188]Not only does this post not make much sense, but from what I can get from it... Rich people have had their turn at being rich, so now they must give up their wealth so other people can be rich. This isn't a fucking clubhouse or a sleepover. We aren't playing "Wallstweet" with our buddies, and I highly disagree with the "its my tuuuuuuuuuurn!" claim. Its sounds a helluva lot like socialism, and last I checked this was a capitalist nation.[/QUOTE] How are you getting that from anything I've said? I said that they are no longer receiving government benefits (at least not to the same extent) as the lower and middle class because they are no longer eligible, and they are now paying into these benefits (more) due to graduated taxes. Said benefits will now help the next generation. At no point did I say this person would lose all their wealth. When I say the next generation, I'm talking about the pool of people from which new industrial leaders would arise, everyone. Every capitalist nation has some elements of socialism in it. It isn't as simple as HURR CAPITALISM 4EVER FUCK THE SOCIALIST MARXIST COMMIES

[QUOTE=CommunistCookie;32772386]Having fun playing victim?[/quote] I am, actually. i'm having a lot of fun in this. The only reason I'm still posting is because I like attacking your points with a smile on my face while you all call me names and yell. Adds that extra little middle finger i'm looking for without actually shoving said finger up your nose. [QUOTE=CommunistCookie;32772386]Flat tax means he is paying the exact same percentage as the poor, regardless of the fact that he can afford to pay much, much more due to the wealth he amassed through the help of others and the government.[/quote] I know what flat tax means, I should have specified what I was asking about. I meant to ask you to explain how paying more in tax dollars, but with the same percentage means he isn't doing anything more. Your argument now though sounds like just because he has it... we should take it from him because he's capable of taking the blow. And we can justify it by saying he'll be "giving back to the people" as if they're entitled to his money. [QUOTE=CommunistCookie;32772386]A lot? Maybe. Most, bullshit. I'm all for making the system more efficient, but removing it would fuck over a lot of people in addition to those who are abusing it.[/quote] And at the moment there is no easy way to distinguish between the two groups, so lets jack the system so everyone gets more anyway. We end up helping those that need it, don't we? Who cares if we're also enabling those abusing it to do so further, those peeps are a good chunk of the ones voting me in office, so let them have it! Rich people are bad! They aren't paying their fair share! Republicans vetoed a jobs bill! Obama2012! [QUOTE=CommunistCookie;32772386]How are you getting that from anything I've said? I said that they are no longer receiving government benefits (at least not to the same extent) as the lower and middle class because they are no longer eligible, and they are now paying into these benefits (more) due to graduated taxes. Said benefits will now help the next generation. At no point did I say this person would lose all their wealth. When I say the next generation, I'm talking about the pool of people from which new industrial leaders would arise, everyone.[/quote] How am I supposed to get anything accurate from what you're saying? You keep posting vague counter arguments that could mean any number of things, so I'm trying to get what I can from something made of nothing special. [QUOTE=CommunistCookie;32772386]Every capitalist nation has some elements of socialism in it. It isn't as simple as HURR CAPITALISM 4EVER FUCK THE SOCIALIST MARXIST COMMIES[/QUOTE] And it isn't as simple as injecting more socialism into a capitalist market to make it more socially, your point is moot.

[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;32772855]I am, actually. i'm having a lot of fun in this. The only reason I'm still posting is because I like attacking your points with a smile on my face while you all call me names and yell. Adds that extra little middle finger i'm looking for without actually shoving said finger up your nose.[/QUOTE] Arrogance much? All I've said is "motherfucker", without intention to insult, and you're acting as if insulting you is all I'm doing. [QUOTE=S31-Syntax;32772855]I know what flat tax means, I should have specified what I was asking about. I meant to ask you to explain how paying more in tax dollars, but with the same percentage means he isn't doing anything more. Your argument now though sounds like just because he has it... we should take it from him because he's capable of taking the blow. And we can justify it by saying he'll be "giving back to the people" as if they're entitled to his money.[/QUOTE] If the flat tax is implemented then taxes on the poor would need to be raised in order to compensate, bad move. The rich didn't earn "their" wealth on their own, and the people are entitled to get something back seeing as how they put him there in the first place. [QUOTE=S31-Syntax;32772855]And at the moment there is no easy way to distinguish between the two groups, so lets jack the system so everyone gets more anyway. We end up helping those that need it, don't we? Who cares if we're also enabling those abusing it to do so further, those peeps are a good chunk of the ones voting me in office, so let them have it! Rich people are bad! They aren't paying their fair share! Republicans vetoed a jobs bill! Obama2012![/QUOTE] How do you expect Obama to get any actual reform done with the GOP blocking his every move SPECIFICALLY so he doesn't fix something and get reelected? [QUOTE=S31-Syntax;32772855]How am I supposed to get anything accurate from what you're saying? You keep posting vague counter arguments that could mean any number of things, so I'm trying to get what I can from something made of nothing special.[/QUOTE]Nothing I've said should be hard to understand. Poor man benefits from government, poor man gets rich and no longer needs government's help, he now pays higher taxes which go to helping everyone else who is in the position he used to be in. It's a cycle. [QUOTE=S31-Syntax;32772855]And it isn't as simple as injecting more socialism into a capitalist market to make it more socially, your point is moot.[/QUOTE] I never said it was, but capitalism isn't an end-all solution to everything.

[QUOTE=CommunistCookie;32773464]Arrogance much? All I've said is "motherfucker", without intention to insult, and you're acting as if insulting you is all I'm doing.[/quote] Hell yes I'm arrogant, but if I don't back my statements with all I got, then my statements have no weight. [QUOTE=CommunistCookie;32773464]If the flat tax is implemented then taxes on the poor would need to be raised in order to compensate, bad move.[/quote] Again, you aren't comprehending the 999 plan. Its not just a "Flat Tax", its a replacement of every single tax, tax code, loop hole, tax anything, and putting 3 specific flat taxes in their place. The removal of [I]every other tax[/I] will lower the cost of production, maintenance, and sale of every product in America, forcing corporations to lower their prices on those products if they wish to stay in the market. THEN after all of those prices have dropped, add the 9% flat national sales tax to it, in order to tax every single purchase of a new good in the country. That means that every time a credit card or handful of money passes through a cash register, 9% sales tax is taken from it. That allows the ENTIRE country to be taxed, instead of just those with taxable incomes. The money saved by everyone in the process WILL overpower the 9% flat income tax on everyone. If the rich wanna pay more taxes, let them, let it be THEIR choice. [QUOTE=CommunistCookie;32773464] The rich didn't earn "their" wealth on their own, and the people are entitled to get something back seeing as how they put him there in the first place.[/quote] No, they didn't help him get there. They were doing their jobs and their jobs just so happened to help him get up there. They have absolutely no entitlement to his money and are already GETTING paid back for "helping him get there". Its called a paycheck. I get one every Thursday, but I'm sure as hell not entitled to the CEO's cash simply because i'm a subordinate of his. I'm entitled to my paycheck, and nothing more, thats what a job is. [QUOTE=CommunistCookie;32773464]How do you expect Obama to get any actual reform done with the GOP blocking his every move SPECIFICALLY so he doesn't fix something and get reelected?[/quote] How do you expect anything to get done at all with the democrats designing bills that are SUPPOSED to get killed by the republicans so that they can be painted as bad guys? The whole point of the "jobs bill" (which wasn't a jobs bill, by the way, it was a tax hike bill) was to design something that LOOKS really nice to the people, but looks like a nightmare to the congressmen. It was DESIGNED to fail in order to strengthen Obama's chances of reelection and give him something to point at as the problem for America, namely the GOP. [QUOTE=CommunistCookie;32773464]Nothing I've said should be hard to understand. Poor man benefits from government, poor man gets rich and no longer needs government's help, he now pays higher taxes which go to helping everyone else who is in the position he used to be in. It's a cycle.[/quote] Taxes aren't supposed to go towards people, its supposed to go towards infrastructure. Roads, schools, lights, fire and crime protection, tanks, and communication. Things like that. The tax was NOT designed to "help everyone else who is in the position he used to be in". And not ALL rich people started off poor, therefore your "helping everyone who is where he used to be" point is also moot. [QUOTE=CommunistCookie;32773464]I never said it was, but capitalism isn't an end-all solution to everything.[/QUOTE] Then why are you suggesting we add additional socialist elements to our system? Yeah, its not perfect, but neither is socialism. A good healthy mix is nice, but at the moment the LAST thing we need is higher taxes caused by more socialist elements. We need a REPAIRED tax system, not a more bloated one. [editline]14th October 2011[/editline] By the way, i'm having a lot of fun with this little back and forth thing we've got going here, hope the audience is having fun reading it.

Not really you're both dumb

Reagan's here to smack some bitches [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXBswFfh6AY[/media]