• Are gender roles just a cultural fenomena nowdays?
    33 replies, posted
[QUOTE=sgman91;44720903]Debating does quite work like that. You don't get to call something meaningless with no reasoning what-so-ever. If gender-stigma is the majority cause, then it is a logical assumption that as gender-stigma is decreased the effects would also decrease. I have shown that the effects have in fact increased as gender-stigma has decreased. This is an opposite result from the expected. You either need to provide a very good reason why this would occur or why it is bad reasoning that we should expect better results from less gender-stigma.[/QUOTE] no you showed that legally speaking in scandinavian countries, they have the highest equality. you took this as proof that women don't want to do those roles, rather than spending any amount of time questioning if scandanavian countries also have cultural issues regarding womens roles in these fields.
[QUOTE=sgman91;44720903]Debating does quite work like that. You don't get to call something meaningless with no reasoning what-so-ever. If gender-stigma is the majority cause, then it is a logical assumption that as gender-stigma is decreased the effects would also decrease. I have shown that the effects have in fact increased as gender-stigma has decreased. This is an opposite result from the expected. You either need to provide a very good reason why this would occur or why it is bad reasoning that we should expect better results from less gender-stigma.[/QUOTE] You're evidence does not suggest anything because it does not take into reasoning cultural or social opinions of women working in certain job fields. Just because statistically your country has the highest equality rights does not mean that it is inherit in our physiology to be predisposed to certain types of jobs. It is a hard subject to tackle because a lot of these things are ingrained into our society after thousands of years. We can however look at other cultures where they follow a matriarchal society. For example the Nagovisi of South Bougainville, an island west of New Guinea have a matriarchal society where women are not only the leaders and nobles but also take pride of physical labor and work on the land that they own. So surely it is reasonable to assume that gender roles in the modern world are purely cultural. That's not to say there aren't certain biological differences between males and females. For example if a woman were to want to have a child they would have to stop working, but this is hardly a deal breaker to say that women should not work at all.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;44721095]no you showed that legally speaking in scandinavian countries, they have the highest equality. you took this as proof that women don't want to do those roles, rather than spending any amount of time questioning if scandanavian countries also have cultural issues regarding womens roles in these fields.[/QUOTE] Scandinavian countries were only a very small portion of the total data. It was across all of Europe and the entire data set followed the trend. The index was also based on many factors, not just law. [editline]4th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=omarfr;44721251]You're evidence does not suggest anything because it does not take into reasoning cultural or social opinions of women working in certain job fields. Just because statistically your country has the highest equality rights does not mean that it is inherit in our physiology to be predisposed to certain types of jobs.[/QUOTE] SOME positive effect should be seen from equaling the playing field and reducing cultural gender-stigma, but instead we see a negative effect. How do you explain this? [QUOTE]It is a hard subject to tackle because a lot of these things are ingrained into our society after thousands of years. We can however look at other cultures where they follow a matriarchal society. For example the Nagovisi of South Bougainville, an island west of New Guinea have a matriarchal society where women are not only the leaders and nobles but also take pride of physical labor and work on the land that they own. So surely it is reasonable to assume that gender roles in the modern world are purely cultural. That's not to say there aren't certain biological differences between males and females.[/QUOTE] That's just plain incorrect about the Nagovisi. Yes, women held more power, like land and inheritance rights, in that society, but men stilled played key leadership roles and were expected to do the hardest labor. To call them a matriarchy in any comparable sense that essentially all of human society has been a patriarchy would be very misinformed. Here are some quotes from a scientific journal on the subject: "The other form of political leadership is that exercised beyond the boundaries of any one kin group. This is the politics of influence and renown, and those who gain prominence here direct cooperative work projects, organize feasts, settle grievances, and are regularly asked for their opinions and advice on matters of community concern - these all being areas of "big man" politics. These leaders - always men - are good orators who have an unmistakable public manner - they do not lose their tempers in public, nor do they become flustered while speaking, although they may make controlled displays of anger for effect or strategy. These men have ties with other "big men" in distant communities which link them in trading relations and, during prepacification times, involved them and their followers in alliances for feuding." "The sexual division of labor is more or less complementary, as in most societies of the world, but in Nagovisi, it rests on a structural basis by which the husband is supposed to supply the labor and most of the managerial talents as an obligation of marriage, while the wife supplied the land and shell valuables, the major resources... This comports with the nature of the political base, so to speak, of each sex, women being the repositories of material resources whereas men's concerns are with intangibles of labor, management, advice, and so on." "Thus, with regard to policy-making, or actions which affect a group, men as leaders may influence a larger and more heterogeneous collections of people than a women may." ([URL]http://www.persee.fr/web/revues/home/prescript/article/jso_0300-953x_1978_num_34_60_2974[/URL])
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