The Credibility of Religion - General

[QUOTE=Matix;29653109]Religion was formed and thrives out of a combination of fear and discomfort with lack of knowledge. The most disgusting aspect is that people attribute their acts of goodness to God and religion, as if they would not do good things unless God told them to. Acts of goodness should occur for the sake of goodness, not God. Goodness for the sake of God is the biggest contradiction to the righteous values commonly attributed with such, because it claims that no human on the face of this earth is truly good, and that we are all acting in fear of eternal damnation, or in service of some all-powerful creator. Atheist goodness is the only true goodness in this world. Even a religious person can perform atheist acts of goodness.[/QUOTE] This is a rather important rebuttal to people using religion as a way to find morals. I'm surprised more people don't present this in religion arguments/debates.

Religion as a basis for morality is an insult to humanity.

[QUOTE=Jasun;29652777]Yay, another shitstorm![/QUOTE] All of the replies in this thread so far have been civil and intelligent, other that the people saying "Lul this gun fael" [editline]6th May 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Matix;29653254]Religion as a basis for morality is an insult to humanity.[/QUOTE] i have to agree with this. It makes me quite irritated when its "atheists have no morals and like to eat babies" Your morality comes from your culture and your laws, not your religion

The main problem with religion is that it bases it's "facts" on thousand year old gospels, where any modern work is just quoting these same texts as evidence. Sure there are historical facts in these works, but science and archeology have shown to paint a more accurate picture of what really happened. For example, The Bible is like a game of Chinese whispers. There are literally thousands of different versions of The Holy Bible in hundreds of languages. One bible may say one thing, while another may say something different. Then people fight over which version is more correct.

[QUOTE=Matix;29653109]If you really want my argument, here: Religion was formed and thrives out of a combination of fear and discomfort with lack of knowledge. The most disgusting aspect is that people attribute their acts of goodness to God and religion, as if they would not do good things unless God told them to. Acts of goodness should occur for the sake of goodness, not God. Goodness for the sake of God is the biggest contradiction to the righteous values commonly attributed with such, because it claims that no human on the face of this earth is truly good, and that we are all acting in fear of eternal damnation, or in service of some all-powerful creator. Atheist goodness is the only true goodness in this world. Even a religious person can perform atheist acts of goodness.[/QUOTE] I'm not sure about the "talking to God" thing, but having symbolic beliefs isn't wrong or contradictory. For example, the way we think can be determined as God and there isn't much you could say to disprove that :smugdog:

[QUOTE=AK'z;29653320]I'm not sure about the "talking to God" thing, but having symbolic beliefs isn't wrong or contradictory. For example, the way we think can be determined as God and there isn't much you could say to disprove that :smugdog:[/QUOTE] I didn't make any arguments about the existence of God. I'm stupid enough to make an argument about that.

The misuse of religion is a stain and an impediment on civilization and future progress. I have no problem with people believing in religion, but when people start to pervert its teachings, and it starts to get a ground in politics like Republicans trying to ban this or that then it needs to be dealt with. Religion should have [i]absolutely[/i] no say in politics or any other system that might dictate how we live. Religion should be a private thing. Keep it to yourselves. We don't need a book to teach us common sense, how to be moral.

[QUOTE=Matix;29653339]I didn't make any arguments about the existence of God. I'm stupid enough to make an argument about that.[/QUOTE] I'm confused. :psyduck:

[QUOTE=Chrille;29652529]It's a recent idea, seeing as taking the Bible literally in this day and age doesn't get anyone very far. Yes, the Bible has a share of parables and symbolic passages, but the majority is written to be taken literally. Because back when it was written, nobody gave a shit if someone told them that man was created out of clay, they had no better explanation.[/QUOTE] Go through any catholic high school religion course, the teachers are taught to teach students the bible is not meant to be taken literally. It must also be remembered that many religious books use God to pass on important survival skills.

[QUOTE=AK'z;29653374]I'm confused. :psyduck:[/QUOTE] I said nothing subject to being "proven" or "disproven", nor did I attempt to "prove" or "disprove" anything. Whether or not God exists, acts of goodness solely for His sake are not true acts of goodness.

[QUOTE=Magistrate;29653404]It must also be remembered that many religious books use God to pass on important survival skills.[/QUOTE] Like: Don't trust your dad, 'cause when asked, he WILL kill you.

[QUOTE=Magistrate;29653404]Go through any catholic high school religion course, the teachers are taught to teach students the bible is not meant to be taken literally. It must also be remembered that many religious books use God to pass on important survival skills.[/QUOTE] Or any protestant one for that matter!!!

[QUOTE=Magistrate;29653404]Go through any catholic high school religion course, the teachers are taught to teach students the bible is not meant to be taken literally. It must also be remembered that many religious books use God to pass on important survival skills.[/QUOTE] Classic tool. Teaching them this basically serves as the most effective counter-argument.

[QUOTE=Matix;29653415]I said nothing subject to being "proven" or "disproven", nor did I attempt to "prove" or "disprove" anything. Whether or not God exists, acts of goodness solely for His sake are not true acts of goodness.[/QUOTE] I'm not talking about "acts of goodness" at all. I'm not sure I care much in terms of how religion relates with that. It is sense to just say it's a personal decision and move on. "Act good" is not enough to have a full belief system because it is a given.

[QUOTE=Matix;29653439]Classic tool. Teaching them this basically serves as the most effective counter-argument for just about anything, because it's not "literal".[/QUOTE] That's because it's not, the bible is a spiritual text.

I've always viewed religion as a way for explaining the unexplained with "God did it." It's very close-minded, I know. I'm still happy people find happiness through their faith, but from what I've seen it's been around to explain why X exists, how Y came to be, et cetera. Look at the evolution versus creationism debate. It's clear we evolved from primates, but we didn't know that when the Bible was written, did we? What about when Galileo figured out the Earth revolves around the Sun? What was his demise? Pope Urban VIII got pissed. Religion again. The bad part about religion? Angsty teenagers who refuse to even acknowledge it. You know who you are. You're just as bad as people who eat religion up like no other.

I enjoy the psychedelic nature of religion. That is the only reason why I respect it. Other than that, the people being stupid about it can naff off. Things like "It was meant to be" and "I was made like this"...

[QUOTE=Protocol7;29653489]I've always viewed religion as a way for explaining the unexplained with "God did it." It's very close-minded, I know. I'm still happy people find happiness through their faith, but from what I've seen it's been around to explain why X exists, how Y came to be, et cetera. Look at the evolution versus creationism debate. It's clear we evolved from primates, but we didn't know that when the Bible was written, did we? What about when Galileo figured out the Earth revolves around the Sun? What was his demise? Pope Urban VIII got pissed. Religion again. The bad part about religion? Angsty teenagers who refuse to even acknowledge it. You know who you are. You're just as bad as people who eat religion up like no other.[/QUOTE] "I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world." That would be fine if they accepted facts when we present them but the deep religious just get offended when you say we evolved from apes. Willful ignorance.

[QUOTE=Matix;29653109]If you really want my argument, here: Religion was formed and thrives out of a combination of fear and discomfort with lack of knowledge. The most disgusting aspect is that people attribute their acts of goodness to God and religion, as if they would not do good things unless God told them to. Acts of goodness should occur for the sake of goodness, not God. Goodness for the sake of God is the biggest contradiction to the righteous values commonly attributed with such, because it claims that no human on the face of this earth is truly good, and that we are all acting in fear of eternal damnation, or in service of some all-powerful creator. Atheist goodness is the only true goodness in this world. Even a religious person can perform atheist acts of goodness.[/QUOTE] Pretty much. Even in Christianity you're not meant to perform acts of goodness for the sake of god/getting to heaven.

While each religion may not be entirely credible. The religion itself provides its followers hope, security, and peace in death. Is it really a bad thing even if its not real? I will compare this to a simple lie. Are we better off not knowing something if it makes happier or in pursuit of the truth should everything be revealed and all lies abolished? Sure the religions today sometimes abuse their power for wealth and mislead their followers into doing evil deeds in the name of a diety. But religion does provide comfort to people. This easy comfort as an alternative to alcohol, drugs and wherever they may go to fill the void that religion fills in our lives. Its human to lie but what if the lie provides benefits, is it not for the better? But yeah as the age of technology and enlightenment progresses I believe more and more people will become atheist. The only followers of these faiths will be the poor and uneducated and people who are not connected like us (through the internet and web forums).

The problem with many atheists is that they are as stubborn as those who are religious. Atheists by definition say they are 100 percent sure that there is no god or higher being. This is just as bad as those who claim to be 100 percent sure that there is one. There is literally just as much chance that there is a higher-being than one not existing. The unfortunate problem about this situation is that you can't say, "statistically speaking" since I'm somewhat sure statistics don't work in this situation, since there is zero quantitative evidence for and zero quantitative evidence against. I'm by no means saying that my solution is the best, but I strongly believe that the best way to handle the topic of religion or anything else in life is to keep an open mind in every direction. That's what science tells us to do. Keep an open mind. Something we know as 100 percent undeniable fact at this moment can change in the future. That one time where you drop something and it hovers or goes up (excluding buoyancy or any form of thrust), is the moment where everything we thought we knew about gravitation changes. Nothing is 100 percent in this universe. No exceptions :wink:

Hinduism is an open-minded religion. In fact it conforms with science in most ways.

[QUOTE=Matix;29653109]If you really want my argument, here: Religion was formed and thrives out of a combination of fear and discomfort with lack of knowledge. The most disgusting aspect is that people attribute their acts of goodness to God and religion, as if they would not do good things unless God told them to. Acts of goodness should occur for the sake of goodness, not God. Goodness for the sake of God is the biggest contradiction to the righteous values commonly attributed with such, because it claims that no human on the face of this earth is truly good, and that we are all acting in fear of eternal damnation, or in service of some all-powerful creator. Atheist goodness is the only true goodness in this world. Even a religious person can perform atheist acts of goodness.[/QUOTE] I disagree. I don't believe people think, before they do every good deed, that they will do it in the name of God or for getting into Heaven. However that being said people may do more good deeds because they are in a religion. I agree that fear and discomfort created religion. Now that we live in a world without fear, discomfort and lack of knowledge that we see a rise in atheism. Without those contributing factors; there is no real need for religion.

Who the fuck cares? you can disprove religion all you want, but religious people won't listen, and why should they? It's their choice to waste their time, It's not harming you. So long as they aren't extremist (most religious people aren't), then it's unlikely that they are/intend to harm you, If they try to convert you, just say "I'm an atheist and you can't change that" If they continue to babel on then walk away.

[QUOTE=Master117;29653660]The problem with many atheists is that they are as stubborn as those who are religious. Atheists by definition say they are 100 percent sure that there is no god or higher being. This is just as bad as those who claim to be 100 percent sure that there is one. There is literally just as much chance that there is a higher-being than one not existing. The unfortunate problem about this situation is that you can't say, "statistically speaking" since I'm somewhat sure statistics work in this situation, since there is zero quantitative evidence for and zero quantitative evidence against. I'm by no means saying that my solution is the best, but I strongly believe that the best way to handle the topic of religion or anything else in life is to keep an open mind in every direction. That's what science tells us to do. Keep an open mind. Something we know as 100 percent undeniable fact at this moment can change in the future. That one time where I drop something and it hovers or goes up (excluding buoyancy or any form of thrust), then everything we thought we knew about gravitation changes. Nothing is 100 percent in this universe. No exceptions :wink:[/QUOTE] This isn't a 50/50 game. Religious people love to use the argument of "there isn't any evidence disproving god" or "you can't prove there isn't a god", which is absolutely ridiculous. If God isn't real, you couldn't prove it no matter what. As for the second one, you can't prove a negative.

[QUOTE=Matix;29653439]Classic tool. Teaching them this basically serves as the most effective counter-argument.[/QUOTE] Why are we arguing in the first place.

I'm not particularly religious but I have a belief system of my own. :smug:

[QUOTE=CaptainSnake;29653816]I disagree. I don't believe people think, before they do every good deed, that they will do it in the name of God or for getting into Heaven. However that being said people may do more good deeds because they are in a religion. I agree that fear and discomfort created religion. Now that we live in a world without fear, discomfort and lack of knowledge that we see a rise in atheism. Without those contributing factors; there is no real need for religion.[/QUOTE] Honestly if there was a charity for some cause, I'd rather they be doing it to be charitable, not to be doing "god's work". Of course I wouldn't try to stop charity, religious or otherwise, but still the principle is there.

[QUOTE=AK'z;29653863]I'm not particularly religious but I have a belief system of my own. :smug:[/QUOTE] I'm trying to make my own philosophy, I was inspired by you. (It's open mindedness and not holding any belief to be real, but having as many beliefs as possible, thinking that eveveryone one of them is real and not real at the same time basically).

I hate people who expect god/jesus to do their bidding instead of doing it themselves or asking help from real people. And people who thank god and not the person who did this or that. Thanks stalin for inventing tvs.