The Credibility of Religion - General

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;29653836]This isn't a 50/50 game. Religious people love to use the argument of "there isn't any evidence disproving god" or "you can't prove there isn't a god", which is absolutely ridiculous. If God isn't real, you couldn't prove it no matter what. As for the second one, [B]you can't prove a negative.[/B][/QUOTE] I would like you to read this: [url]http://departments.bloomu.edu/philosophy/pages/content/hales/articlepdf/proveanegative.pdf[/url] And like I said before, statistics do not work in this type of argument, so you are right... this would not be a 50/50 game because those numbers are irrelevant based in the current knowledge that there is no quantifiable evidence for or against a higher being. I'm no mathematical, or statistician but I think based on input values of zero, the output would also be zero. This makes it irrelevant either way since according to the math there is a zero percent chance of there being one and a zero percent chance of there not being one, which means there is also a 100 percent chance of there not being one and a 100 percent chance of there being one, turning God into a quantum reality being in a state similar to Schrödinger's cat. I need a quantum physicist, a mathematician, and a Rabbi... I think I'm on to something...

[QUOTE=Kingy_why;29653907]I'm trying to make my own philosophy, I was inspired by you. (It's open mindedness and not holding any belief to be real, but having as many beliefs as possible, thinking that eveveryone one of them is real and not real at the same time basically).[/QUOTE] Why should I let some monk make me live the way they want me to. I'll screw and distribute respect the way I want to. :3: I'll keep my own beliefs to myself for the time being until the time is right.

[QUOTE=Master117;29653954]I would like you to read this: [url]http://departments.bloomu.edu/philosophy/pages/content/hales/articlepdf/proveanegative.pdf[/url][/QUOTE] A little invalid considering God doesn't work the same way as a mythical animal, despite the fact that it's mythical. Religion has set up a position for itself, where just about anything [I]could [/I]be proof of God. It's like arguing with someone who is already under the firm belief that their side cannot be disproved no matter what [B]based upon nothing but a holy book and a bunch of people who said it was true[/B] (given that you're of the mindset that religious texts are factual). You could do the same with any other work of fiction that has roots in history, and get a group of people together and do the same thing, but that would just be stupid.

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;29654120]A little invalid considering God doesn't work the same way as a mythical animal, despite the fact that it's mythical. Religion has set up a position for itself, where just about anything [I]could [/I]be proof of God. It's like arguing with someone who is already under the firm belief that their side cannot be disproved no matter what [B]based upon nothing but a holy book and a bunch of people who said it was true[/B] (given that you're of the mindset that religious texts are factual). You could do the same with any other work of fiction that has roots in history, and get a group of people together and do the same thing, but that would just be stupid.[/QUOTE] It's not invalid because the examples are the same concept. I just think he didn't use religion as an example in there because he didn't want to get assaulted from both sides.

[QUOTE=Kingy_why;29653820]Who the fuck cares? you can disprove religion all you want, but religious people won't listen, and why should they? It's their choice to waste their time, It's not harming you. So long as they aren't extremist (most religious people aren't), then it's unlikely that they are/intend to harm you, If they try to convert you, just say "I'm an atheist and you can't change that" If they continue to babel on then walk away.[/QUOTE] I agree with this, yet when religion becomes an issue with how science is taught in schools or how government policies are made, which is all too common I think it's a problem. I think people have the right to believe what they want, and they [I]also[/I] have the right to talk about it. Some atheists might say 'I don't mind religious people as long as they're not shoving it down my throat.' If they class billboards and people approaching them in the street as shoving it down their throat then I have to completely disagree. I might have a completely opposing view to someone who comes up to me and asks if I want to hear about Jesus or something, but if I say they're ramming it down my throat and they shouldn't have the right to, then what gives me and other atheists the right to argue with them? Basically I think governments should be completely secular, and religion beyond the teaching of what faiths believe and religious history etc shouldn't be a part of school teaching. On the other hand I also believe people should have the right to stand up and argue both sides. As much as seeing someone ranting some religious nonsense on TV irritates me, it's only when all sides of the argument are presented can people listen and make up their own mind.

I've avoided conversations about religion anyway. It seems everyone here just argues with people. :raise:

[QUOTE=Magistrate;29653458]That's because it's not, the bible is a spiritual text.[/QUOTE] You're a fucking douchebag. Don't worry bro, I was being spiritual. I know it's hard to catch spirituality over the internet, but I don't really have anything against you. :love: See how that doesn't work. [editline]6th May 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Master117;29653954]I would like you to read this: [url]http://departments.bloomu.edu/philosophy/pages/content/hales/articlepdf/proveanegative.pdf[/url] And like I said before, statistics do not work in this type of argument, so you are right... this would not be a 50/50 game because those numbers are irrelevant based in the current knowledge that there is no quantifiable evidence for or against a higher being. I'm no mathematical, or statistician but I think based on input values of zero, the output would also be zero. This makes it irrelevant either way since according to the math there is a zero percent chance of there being one and a zero percent chance of there not being one, which means there is also a 100 percent chance of there not being one and a 100 percent chance of there being one, turning God into a quantum reality being in a state similar to Schrödinger's cat. I need a quantum physicist, a mathematician, and a Rabbi... I think I'm on to something...[/QUOTE] You're putting way too much thought into complete circular semantic nonsense. [editline]6th May 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=AK'z;29653685]Hinduism is an open-minded religion. In fact it conforms with science in most ways.[/QUOTE] Except for when they refuse to take the small pox vaccine because they think it will anger the gods. Otherwise they're totally square.

[QUOTE=Master117;29653660]Atheists by definition say they are 100 percent sure that there is no god or higher being. [/QUOTE] That is just not true in any way. Atheist simply means "not theist".

[QUOTE=sp00ks;29655091]That is just not true in any way. Atheist simply means "not theist".[/QUOTE] Agreed. It simply means "lack of belief in a God". That's not the same as "believes that there is no God." There's a subtle difference.

Here's my point of view. Science attempts to understand the universe through observing and theorizing, and adapts itself to new discoveries by coming up with new theory, if the new discovery challenges old theory. Religion, on the other hand, amounts to "A space wizard did it." Furthermore, while it is true that the existence of god can not be proven, and I'll concede that it's [I]possible[/I] some divine creator may exist, (though the odds are against it) religions are still stupid. Why? Because humanity has never come up with an idea so absurd as the claim that it is possible to understand what this creator (who may or may not exist) wants, and ridiculous notions like heaven and hell. And when asked for credible evidence that what they preach is, in fact, the truth of what their god wants, they point to some obscure cryptic passage in an ancient text of which nobody knows the true origin, one that was written thousands of years ago, in a time when its draconian and discriminatory policies would have made sense in that social environment. No, I maintain that religion is merely a convenient tool for those with great charisma and greater malicious intent to taste the power of a leader, and to help achieve their selfish, destructive ends. [editline]6th May 2011[/editline] Inb4 thread is closed.

I'm an atheist, but I think I can make a pretty good guess as to what most religious people would respond: [QUOTE=Megafanx13;29651779]The main question I have has to do with Christianity and perhaps Catholicism. It seems that in the Bible, many great feats occur (Parting the sea, turning water into wine, burning bush, Virgin Mary, etc.), however I'd like to know why is it only now that God has decided to stop doing these sorts of divine acts. It seems like it only occurred during a time where records of events weren't necessarily credible or verifiable, yet people of faith still regard these things as fact, and I find it intriguing.[/quote] Way back when these miracles were said to occur, the religion was much smaller. Judaism wasn't extremely widespread, so it was more vulnerable to attack. God intervened with miracles in order to save the religion from utter destruction at the hands of other nations. These days, with so many believers, massive miracles are no longer needed to defend the faith. As for miracles related to Christ, what else would you expect from the son of God? Such things don't occur any more because He rose to Heaven and has not yet returned. (As an aside, remember that the Old Testament is shared by all three big monotheisms. So many problems found in the Bible are common to all of them) [QUOTE=Megafanx13;29651779]If you believe in Islam, I'd like to know why the Quran contains verses in it that completely contradict each other (As I've heard, certain parts of it were written earlier, and some parts later on).[/quote] Careful here, I know there's that one anti-Muslim video out there that cites all of these scary inconsistencies in the Qur'an. Many of those inconsistencies were misquotations or deliberate misinterpretation of the verses. Qur'anic scholars have managed to interpret most verses in an unambiguous way, and what few remain are being worked on. [QUOTE=Megafanx13;29651779]If you're a Mormon, I'd just like to know how people knew Joseph Smith was telling the truth. I don't know too much about the Mormon faith, but any intelligent discussion is a good one.[/quote] How does anyone know that any prophet in history was telling the truth? They don't. It's a matter of faith - and the fact that you even ask that question betrays the fact that you don't understand the essence of religion.

[QUOTE=AK'z;29653685]Hinduism is an open-minded religion. In fact it conforms with science in most ways.[/QUOTE] This :v:

lolreligion

What most facepunchers think is that you MUST have HARD facts up to show ANYTHING true. Religion is based on faith that your deity is real, not facts.

[QUOTE=Kingy_why;29653855]Why are we arguing in the first place.[/QUOTE] Uh, because people disagree? Why else? I'm not saying it's a good thing. [editline]6th May 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=werrek;29655732]What most facepunchers think is that you MUST have HARD facts up to show ANYTHING true. Religion is based on faith that your deity is real, not facts.[/QUOTE] We all know this. Please, don't bring up faith.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;29654921] Except for when they refuse to take the small pox vaccine because they think it will anger the gods. Otherwise they're totally square.[/QUOTE] I'm not talking about people. I'm talking about the idiologies.

[QUOTE=werrek;29655732]What most facepunchers think is that you MUST have HARD facts up to show ANYTHING true. Religion is based on faith that your deity is real, not facts.[/QUOTE] Yeah! That's what I told my mom about the little girl who lives in the well outside my house and tells me what to do! [editline]6th May 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=AK'z;29655777]I'm not talking about people. I'm talking about the idiologies.[/QUOTE] guess who decides what the ideologies are oh that's right [I]it's fucking people[/I]

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;29655784]Yeah! That's what I told my mom about the little girl who lives in the well outside my house and tells me what to do! [editline]6th May 2011[/editline] guess who decides what the ideologies are oh that's right [I]it's fucking people[/I][/QUOTE] Which means multiple ideologies to each group of people :v:

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;29655784] guess who decides what the ideologies are oh that's right [I]it's fucking people[/I][/QUOTE] Why are you whining? Some of what they say is creative. You are blaming some foolish people who disregard science. "Refuse medicine because of God", that's not what I want to talk about at all so stop being a sarcastic bastard. :colbert:

[img]http://danassays.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/450px-friedrich_nietzsche_drawn_by_hans_olde.jpg[/img] thread over

[QUOTE=Taishu;29652668]The most often used one is the argument from free-will, however if God is omnipotent (and therefore also omniscient) free-will cannot exist, seeing as how everything would be predetermined.[/QUOTE] Predestination as you said it was a doctrine created by the Calvinists, not the Catholic Church which of course is the most significant and it is not recognized by them The Catholic Church does say that things are done according to God's plan however free will for all people is something that is included within that plan (And not referencing you) The biggest problem with these threads is that most people act extremely anachronistic in placing all types of modern views on periods and events where they cannot apply

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;29654921]You're a fucking douchebag. Don't worry bro, I was being spiritual. I know it's hard to catch spirituality over the internet, but I don't really have anything against you. :love: See how that doesn't work.[/QUOTE] actually all i see is an attempt at wit by a person who posts 100 times a day don't let that get to you i'm sure there's a gem somewhere in that pile of shit called your post count, however experts have stopped looking due to massive amounts of brain damage

[QUOTE=Magistrate;29653404]Go through any catholic high school religion course, the teachers are taught to teach students the bible is not meant to be taken literally. It must also be remembered that many religious books use God to pass on important survival skills.[/QUOTE] And? This doesn't prevent it from being a recent idea.

[QUOTE=Larikang;29655536]How does anyone know that any prophet in history was telling the truth? They don't. It's a matter of faith - and the fact that you even ask that question betrays the fact that you don't understand the essence of religion.[/QUOTE] Overall your answers were very good, but this needs responding to. So you're saying everyone just took the guy at his word? I mean at least with Jesus they claimed he performed miracles, but if memory serves, Joseph Smith was just a regular guy claiming to have been visited by angel. Why on earth would anyone believe him?

[QUOTE=Magistrate;29656974]actually all i see is an attempt at wit by a person who posts 100 times a day don't let that get to you i'm sure there's a gem somewhere in that pile of shit called your post count, however experts have stopped looking due to massive amounts of brain damage[/QUOTE] It's not hard to post a lot when I have patent geniuses such as yourself to respond to. For example, I post 16 times a day. Maybe once they teach you to read in whatever special ed program it is that you're a part of you can verify that for yourself. [editline]6th May 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Megafanx13;29657102]Overall your answers were very good, but this needs responding to. So you're saying everyone just took the guy at his word? I mean at least with Jesus they claimed he performed miracles, but if memory serves, Joseph Smith was just a regular guy claiming to have been visited by angel. Why on earth would anyone believe him?[/QUOTE] Because they were a bunch of backwards farm living degenerates in the old west who liked energetic speakers and having lots of wives?

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;29657886]Because they were a bunch of backwards farm living degenerates in the old west who liked energetic speakers and having lots of wives?[/QUOTE] Stranger things have been said to happen I suppose.

Atheism is best theism

Could someone clarify what the belief system of Atheism is?

[QUOTE=AK'z;29658072]Could someone clarify what the belief system of Atheism is?[/QUOTE] You believe in yourself

[QUOTE=AK'z;29658072]Could someone clarify what the belief system of Atheism is?[/QUOTE] Try a Websters dictionary. [editline]6th May 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Lufttygger306;29658099]You believe in yourself[/QUOTE] I'm pretty damn sure you're thinking about Objectivism.