I try before I buy. Tried an app, a few months later I bought it. It doesn't apply to all apps because I either am still trying it or I don't like it.
If easier payment options arrived to Canada such as Google Play Cards, I would buy more apps instead of using a prepaid credit card which costs money on top of it.
[QUOTE=Vasey105;37592501]
I did not say that the majority of people pirate only to test things, because that's not true, and I did not say that a lot of people pirate for that reason either, I said
[quote]A lot of the time people do actually just want to test it.[/quote]
Honestly, if you can't even read my points correctly, you can't try to swear in rage at me, again.[/quote]
First off, you saying that still counts as an assertion, so you still have to back it up. Secondly, NOBODY mentioned a majority until you just said it right there. I simply wanted to see some evidence backing up your claim, that "A lot of the time" people pirate for testing. So no, he did not read your post incorrectly. You need to give evidence for assertions in this forum.
[quote]It's a debate, you don't have to get so worked up about it.[/QUOTE]
Well it's kind of the rules sooo...
[QUOTE=Doomish;37592613]I can understand defeating someone's point with the whole 'absence of evidence [I]is[/I] evidence of absence' thing but you probably don't have to be a dick about it. He's not obligated to prove his point if you have already gone 'there is no way to prove that' and given a counterpoint because, y'know, that means there is no way to prove that. Any effort on his part to try and improve on his earlier statement would be wasted because several people have said it's not a valid argument.[/QUOTE]
Nobody used absence of evidence here, I don't know how you came up with that. And yes, he is obligated to either prove his point or recant it if he can't prove it. He hasn't recanted yet, so we will continue to demand it from him. It's a bannable offense.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;37594966]
Nobody used absence of evidence here, I don't know how you came up with that. And yes, he is obligated to either prove his point or recant it if he can't prove it. He hasn't recanted yet, so we will continue to demand it from him. It's a bannable offense.[/QUOTE]
Everyone here has been doing it since he posted his opinion the first time. You did it in your own post right there!
Common sense dictates that his point should be automatically null if it's [I]absolutely certain[/I] that he can't prove it, which it is. He doesn't have to say 'okay then I was wrong' because the argument has already proven him wrong by itself. Also, nowhere in the rule does it state that he has to take it back. He didn't state it as a fact anywhere either. You're arguing semantics because you want the guy to get banned.
[QUOTE=Doomish;37595102]Everyone here has been doing it since he posted his opinion the first time. You did it in your own post right there!
Common sense dictates that his point should be automatically null if it's [I]absolutely certain[/I] that he can't prove it, which it is. He doesn't have to say 'okay then I was wrong' because the argument has already proven him wrong by itself. Also, nowhere in the rule does it state that he has to take it back. He didn't state it as a fact anywhere either. You're arguing semantics because you want the guy to get banned.[/QUOTE]
I don't want him banned, I want people to stop saying "Oh lots of people just pirate to test anyway."
[QUOTE=Vasey105;37592130]It only takes common sense to know that.[/QUOTE]
I'm afraid that's not valid in the (pretty explicitly named) debate section. You either make a claim supported by evidence of [I]some[/I] repute (no, anecdotes are not evidence) or you don't make that claim at all.
Why should I back up a point with evidence when it's common sense, I shouldn't have to, not that I can anyway.
And King Tiger the article he posted was about what the [B]majortiy[/B] of people pirate for, I said that [B]a lot of the time[/B] people pirate to test out a game, countless people have said so themselves in this very thread.
[QUOTE=Vasey105;37597442]Why should I back up a point with evidence when it's common sense, I shouldn't have to, not that I can anyway.
And King Tiger the article he posted was about what the [B]majortiy[/B] of people pirate for, I said that [B]a lot of the time[/B] people pirate to test out a game, countless people have said so themselves in this very thread.[/QUOTE]
Honestly I do want you banned at this point for blatantly disregarding the rules and once again making an assertion with no evidence.
Come on Megafan you banned me for this before and I only made one post.
Like I just said. Lots of people in this very thread have said they pirate games to test them. I'd go back and quote them all but I shouldn't really need to, you've been here (King Tiger) for pretty much this entire thread. You must know for a fact that a lot of the time people have said they've pirated to test something.
And, even then, all evidence on a piracy point that anyone has ever written an article about boils down to what other people have said. Just because someone wrote an article about it doesn't make it right, or wrong, that's for others to decide.
And I haven't made another 'statement', I was simple re-posting it to expand upon my point/opinion.
[QUOTE=Vasey105;37600188]Like I just said. Lots of people in this very thread have said they pirate games to test them. I'd go back and quote them all but I shouldn't really need to, you've been here (King Tiger) for pretty much this entire thread. You must know for a fact that a lot of the time people have said they've pirated to test something.[/quote]
And I want to put a stop to it.
[quote]And, even then, all evidence on a piracy point that anyone has ever written an article about boils down to what other people have said. Just because someone wrote an article about it doesn't make it right, or wrong, that's for others to decide.[/quote]
What?
[quote]And I haven't made another 'statement', I was simple re-posting it to expand upon my point/opinion.[/QUOTE]
I'll assume by "statement" you are referencing my calling you out on making another unsubstantiated assertion. If that is the case, then yes, you actually did make another claim by saying that it's "common sense".
[QUOTE=King Tiger;37600267]And I want to put a stop to it.[/QUOTE]
Well, yeah. That's what the thread focuses on.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;37600267]What?[/QUOTE]
Was it not you who said that even if I provided quotes it wouldn't be applicable? I'll read back over ourselves, see who said it.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;37600267]I'll assume by "statement" you are referencing my calling you out on making another unsubstantiated assertion. If that is the case, then yes, you actually did make another claim by saying that it's "common sense".[/QUOTE]
I thought you meant I'd made another post similar to the original one I made. Honestly, are you complaining at me here for not providing evidence for the point '[B]It's common sense.[/B]'
[QUOTE=hexpunK;37591999]That is all anecdotal evidence and doesn't actually prove anything[/QUOTE]
Yeah, he said it.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;37579141]No, you are stupid. You do not get to decide how much a product costs. The people who make it do. And how does your lack of skill excuse you for paying for something? Oh, I'm bad at driving, I should get a free car. If I get better I'll pay for it.
[/QUOTE]
The OST that he's referring to is mostly more cheaper in Japan than if you were to buy it physically imported. That's disregarding the shipping costs as well. That's similar to my experience with buying one previously.
[QUOTE=CoolKingKaso;37611164]The OST that he's referring to is mostly more cheaper in Japan than if you were to buy it physically imported. That's disregarding the shipping costs as well. That's similar to my experience with buying one previously.[/QUOTE]
ok
[QUOTE=Vasey105;37597442]Why should I back up a point with evidence when it's common sense, I shouldn't have to, not that I can anyway.
And King Tiger the article he posted was about what the [B]majortiy[/B] of people pirate for, I said that [B]a lot of the time[/B] people pirate to test out a game, countless people have said so themselves in this very thread.[/QUOTE]
Words have meanings, and 'majority' is no exception. It's part of the rules to back up statements when challenged, and continued refusal to do so will warrant a ban.
[QUOTE=Megafan;37611265]Words have meanings, and 'majority' is no exception. It's part of the rules to back up statements when challenged, and continued refusal to do so will warrant a ban.[/QUOTE]
I know what majority means. I was just saying that the article he posted focused on what the majority of people pirate for, I only said a lot of the time people pirate to test something.
And, the proof I need, has already been posted. Would you like me to go back and quote 'em all ?
[QUOTE=Vasey105;37612016]I know what majority means. I was just saying that the article he posted focused on what the majority of people pirate for, I only said a lot of the time people pirate to test something.
And, the proof I need, has already been posted. Would you like me to go back and quote 'em all ?[/QUOTE]
"A lot of the time" is still a quantifiable number. There would be statistics proving that "a lot of the time" is correct, much like there would be proving a "majority" is correct. If you have evidence, post it please, rather than just saying "I posted evidence!!!" or using anecdotes which have no meaning in a real debate.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;37614821]"A lot of the time" is still a quantifiable number. There would be statistics proving that "a lot of the time" is correct, much like there would be proving a "majority" is correct. If you have evidence, post it please, rather than just saying "I posted evidence!!!" or using anecdotes which have no meaning in a real debate.[/QUOTE]
At no point have I ever said anything along the lines of "I posted evidence!!!" So, you're telling me, that the only evidence that I could possibly have, isn't good enough?
[QUOTE=Vasey105;37615396]At no point have I ever said anything along the lines of "I posted evidence!!!" So, you're telling me, that the only evidence that I could possibly have, isn't good enough?[/QUOTE]
Why are you under the impression that you couldn't possibly have evidence? I am willing to wager the there are hundreds of studies done on piracy and why people commit it. hexpunK just posted a study that condradicts the assertion that "a lot of people" pirate things just to try them. But because you won't quantify "a lot", we can't understand your claim.
[URL]http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/study_piracy_does_not_deter_the_production_of_music_books_films.php[/URL]
[URL]http://www.geekosystem.com/bittorrent-box-office-study/[/URL]
[URL]http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20111118/02101616810/swedish-study-shows-file-sharing-music-buying-go-hand-in-hand.shtml[/URL]
[URL]http://techcrunch.com/2010/04/14/government-accountability-office-dont-believe-piracy-studies-because-theyre-wicked-flawed/[/URL]
[URL]http://www.gamefront.com/gabe-newell-piracy-is-a-non-issue/[/URL]
I probably wouldn't be on the side of pirates so much if the various organisations against it didn't deceive.
If people can afford something, and pirate it for the sake of piracy, that's an issue.
If people cannot afford something, and they pirate it, then there's no issue. You have one other person enjoying your creation, thus that's one other person advertising it to friends who wouldn't be otherwise.
[editline]10th September 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=King Tiger;37580264]That it's not up to you to say "it's too expensive and should be stolen".
Then follow tutorials or take classes that teach you? How else are you supposed to improve if you don't use the product? Why would you even want it if you are supposedly so inept?
IIRC, Photoshop comes with tutorials built in.
Completely missed the point of my analogy.[/QUOTE]
I'm afraid that it IS up to people to say if it's too expensive or not, because if it is, they'll get it for free. They'll weigh in with their wallets.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;37616520]Why are you under the impression that you couldn't possibly have evidence? I am willing to wager the there are hundreds of studies done on piracy and why people commit it. hexpunK just posted a study that condradicts the assertion that "a lot of people" pirate things just to try them. But because you won't quantify "a lot", we can't understand your claim.[/QUOTE]
hexpunK has said I can't post quotes as they apparently have no meaning in a debate, even though all studies & articles based on that point are all written on other peoples quotes. But he seems adamant that they cannot be used.
Also the point I've been trying to make that you don't seem to be able to understand goes like this, articles explain about how and why people pirate. Obviously they've asked a lot of people, and each answer would have been treated as if that's why they always pirate. Although people most likely don't pirate for the same reason [B]every single time[/B], and I'm saying that a lot of that time people most likely pirate to test out the game.
If i may add some fuel to the debat, what splits pirating a game online and simply borrowing it from one of your friends? At one point, someone paid for this game and you are not paying a dime to have fun and enjoy the game or not.
[QUOTE=Sirias;37619002]If i may add some fuel to the debat, what splits pirating a game online and simply borrowing it from one of your friends? At one point, someone paid for this game and you are not paying a dime to have fun and enjoy the game or not.[/QUOTE]
This is a very valid point, but since Piracy is on such a vast scale, I guess you couldn't really compare the two unless you're talking locally about moral reasoning.
[QUOTE=Vasey105;37618706]hexpunK has said I can't post quotes as they apparently have no meaning in a debate, even though all studies & articles based on that point are all written on other peoples quotes. But he seems adamant that they cannot be used..[/QUOTE]
I never said you couldn't quote statistics or studies at all. I said you can't use anecdotes as evidence such as "everyone I know does X because Y". A quote like "this study said everyone does X because Y [link to study]" is perfectly acceptable in a debate though. again, this is basic shit for any debate where you try and bring quantifiable things like reasons into it.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;37619241]I never said you couldn't quote statistics or studies at all. I said you can't use anecdotes as evidence such as "everyone I know does X because Y". A quote like "this study said everyone does X because Y [link to study]" is perfectly acceptable in a debate though. again, this is basic shit for any debate where you try and bring quantifiable things like reasons into it.[/QUOTE]
Just because the quotes are included in an article does not make them any more legitimate than they would be by them self.
I do agree that we should be able to try to game (something better then a demo) so you get a gist in how the game is, and if it is even capable to run on the computer.
[QUOTE=Vasey105;37619732]Just because the quotes are included in an article does not make them any more legitimate than they would be by them self.[/QUOTE]
They are legitimate if they are from a verified scientific experiment or survey.
Just go on and post whatever quotes you're thinking of. I don't think hexpunK would mind.
[editline]10th September 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;37616963][URL]http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/study_piracy_does_not_deter_the_production_of_music_books_films.php[/URL]
[URL]http://www.geekosystem.com/bittorrent-box-office-study/[/URL]
[URL]http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20111118/02101616810/swedish-study-shows-file-sharing-music-buying-go-hand-in-hand.shtml[/URL]
[URL]http://techcrunch.com/2010/04/14/government-accountability-office-dont-believe-piracy-studies-because-theyre-wicked-flawed/[/URL]
[URL]http://www.gamefront.com/gabe-newell-piracy-is-a-non-issue/[/URL]
I probably wouldn't be on the side of pirates so much if the various organisations against it didn't deceive.
If people can afford something, and pirate it for the sake of piracy, that's an issue.
If people cannot afford something, and they pirate it, then there's no issue. You have one other person enjoying your creation, thus that's one other person advertising it to friends who wouldn't be otherwise.[/quote]
Why is it an issue if they can afford it?
Oh, an it actually is an issue when they can't because the makers of the game don't want people to have their product unless they buy it.
[quote]I'm afraid that it IS up to people to say if it's too expensive or not, because if it is, they'll get it for free. They'll weigh in with their wallets.[/QUOTE]
So if they can't afford it that makes stealing OK.
[QUOTE=Sirias;37619002]If i may add some fuel to the debat, what splits pirating a game online and simply borrowing it from one of your friends? At one point, someone paid for this game and you are not paying a dime to have fun and enjoy the game or not.[/QUOTE]
Because there is only one copy of the game being passed around physically between two people. No copies are being made.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;37621831]They are legitimate if they are from a verified scientific experiment or survey.
Just go on and post whatever quotes you're thinking of. I don't think hexpunK would mind.[/QUOTE]
I'm not too fucked about him posting quotes or anything, as long as they can be sourced to something reputable and at least validated/ peer-reviewed if possible.
The thing I don't get is, how can people say pirating something, for an example let's say a movie, is the same as stealing it, even though the punishment for pirating it is much more severe than if you stole a hard copy. If you go to a store and get caught stealing a movie, you can get up to 6 months in jail (considered petty theft). But all of a sudden, if someone pirates it and gets caught, all shit breaks loose and they get charged with a $250,000 fine and can go to jail for 5 years.
My question is this. If pirating is the same as stealing, then why is the punishment so different? When you can be charged with the equivalent of 5 counts of grand theft for pirating 1 movie, as well as a $250,00 fine, then the laws regarding piracy need to be changed.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;37621831]
Why is it an issue if they can afford it?
[/quote]
It's an issue because they are choosing to not give their money to the company in question. Whereas someone who can't afford the product justifies it with whatever claims are appropriate, the other person flat out wants the product without bothering to pay for it.
[QUOTE=iownuall;37623222]My question is this. If pirating is the same as stealing, then why is the punishment so different? When you can be charged with the equivalent of 5 counts of grand theft for pirating 1 movie, as well as a $250,00 fine, then the laws regarding piracy need to be changed.[/QUOTE]
This is obviously a problem that needs to be resolved.
[QUOTE=SirGre;37623255]It's an issue because they are choosing to not give their money to the company in question. Whereas someone who can't afford the product justifies it with whatever claims are appropriate, the other person flat out wants the product without bothering to pay for it.[/QUOTE]
But even if someone can pay for it, people always come up with justifications for their piracy. What difference does it make if someone can or can't afford it?
[QUOTE=King Tiger;37621831]
Oh, an it actually is an issue when they can't because the makers of the game don't want people to have their product unless they buy it.[/QUOTE]
Then the makers of the game have to change approach for piracy because it doesnt go away, and painting it as an enemy isn't helping anyone.
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