Piracy? or Try before you buy? - General

Here's a few: [QUOTE=Dirf;36722674]I've installed games before just for the sake of trying them out. Playing the first or second level serves as a good basis for how the whole game will be, and if it's worth my time and money or not. Typically if a game has a demo I won't look to outside sources to see if I'll like it or not. I don't see any problem with pirating a game just for demo purposes.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Jeremyc428;36722713]When I pirate stuff I don't do it because I want to try the game then go buy it, I'm a working man, I don't always have the money to buy 60 dollar games.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Mr. Bleak;36730570]I will pirate something to see if my PC can handle it sometimes, but only if I have a vested interest and the money to buy. I think the demo approach is highly underutilized in gaming today.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=smileykiller447;36732078]Well, unless theres a demo to see if i can run it on my computer, then i will pirate it, play through the first one or two levels, then buy it.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=DudeGuyKT;36732220]I used to pirate games to see if I could run them. I cannot express the frustration of buying a game and then not being able to play it because they didn't put out a demo, and sometimes the minimum specs suggested were the absolute bare minimum. If that's happened to you, then you know what I mean. Now, I don't do it so much because I've been lucky enough to upgrade, so I just check out online reviews and the like. My point is, I don't see the problem in pirating for testing purposes.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Nexor;36732471]Depends. I'm more on the try before you buy side. Since there aren't demos on some games (Fallout 3, GTA IV) I can't really try before I buy, so I pirate it.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Silly Sil;36734690] I can pirate a game and check it whether or not I want to spend my money on it and there is nothing wrong with it.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Aesir;36734903]I'll admit that I do pirate but it is usually expressly for the purpose of trying it out.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Rhenae;36739754]I pirate games when I want to try out a game that is sorta 50/50 it could be good, or it could be horrible. I only really pirate stuff I wouldn't ever by otherwise, and if I do like it I will give money to the developer by buying it.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=MitchvW;36741075]When there isn't a demo for a certain game, I will dl it to test if my pc can handle it.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Derp Y. Mail;36766380]I pirate with the intention to try. I have *never*pirated a Valve game, though.[/QUOTE] I'll edit more in, I've got school now.

I used to pirate a fair amount to be honest. But nowadays it can actually be a lot more hassle to pirate a game, what with CD keys and patches and cracks and backdoor access and editing INI files etc etc. whereas on Steam you can just click that lovely "Purchase" button and you're done! I work. I earn my money. I don't have alot. And sometimes I really feel that the games industry takes the piss with the prices they provide us. The Humblie Indie Bundles have been a huge success, and I am seriously questioning why more companies don't jump onto this "pay what you want" bandwagon. Yeah it's a big risk, putting the amount of profit you make from a game directly into the hands of your consumers. Yeah you're gonna get people that'll take the piss and opt for the lowest price possible. But I think there's much more to it than that. I personally have RESPECT for the developers that released their games on a "pay what you want" basis. Instead of being told to crap out £££, and feeling quite robbed, I actually WANTED to pay the full price for the game. Thoughts?

[QUOTE=iownuall;37623222]The thing I don't get is, how can people say pirating something, for an example let's say a movie, is the same as stealing it, even though the punishment for pirating it is much more severe than if you stole a hard copy. If you go to a store and get caught stealing a movie, you can get up to 6 months in jail (considered petty theft). But all of a sudden, if someone pirates it and gets caught, all shit breaks loose and they get charged with a $250,000 fine and can go to jail for 5 years. My question is this. If pirating is the same as stealing, then why is the punishment so different? When you can be charged with the equivalent of 5 counts of grand theft for pirating 1 movie, as well as a $250,00 fine, then the laws regarding piracy need to be changed.[/QUOTE] Because piracy isn't technically stealing, it's copyright infringement. It just gets compared to stealing so that people understand that it's a crime where you get something you don't deserve or have the right to have. If you pirate 5 movies, it's not that you've stolen 5 items but rather that you've breached copyright 5 (or more) times. [editline]11th September 2012[/editline] [QUOTE='[Dee];37626422']I used to pirate a fair amount to be honest. But nowadays it can actually be a lot more hassle to pirate a game, what with CD keys and patches and cracks and backdoor access and editing INI files etc etc. whereas on Steam you can just click that lovely "Purchase" button and you're done! I work. I earn my money. I don't have alot. And sometimes I really feel that the games industry takes the piss with the prices they provide us. The Humblie Indie Bundles have been a huge success, and I am seriously questioning why more companies don't jump onto this "pay what you want" bandwagon. Yeah it's a big risk, putting the amount of profit you make from a game directly into the hands of your consumers. Yeah you're gonna get people that'll take the piss and opt for the lowest price possible. But I think there's much more to it than that. I personally have RESPECT for the developers that released their games on a "pay what you want" basis. Instead of being told to crap out £££, and feeling quite robbed, I actually WANTED to pay the full price for the game. Thoughts?[/QUOTE] It's hard to justify the risk in that business model when triple-A industries sink millions of dollars into projects. If you don't want to pay a certain amount for a game then don't. That certainly doesn't give anyone the right to pirate the game.

[QUOTE=Vasey105;37625775]Here's a few:[/QUOTE] Jesus Christ that's exactly what we don't want. None of that means anything. How do we know any of those people actually pirated just to try? How is the testimony of 11 people "a lot" when the amount of piracy goes into the hundreds of thousands?

[QUOTE=King Tiger;37627353]Jesus Christ that's exactly what we don't want. None of that means anything. How do we know any of those people actually pirated just to try? How is the testimony of 11 people "a lot" when the amount of piracy goes into the hundreds of thousands?[/QUOTE] Precisely. It's been established in here that anecdotes have no real worth.

I for one do not pirate games. I pirate programs like FL Studio basic which is extremely over priced. I absolutely refuse to buy a registry file that you merge onto your computer with 5 lines of code and spend 100+ dollars on it. I am not allowed to pirate stuff as my dad says, but yet he pirates TV shows and other stuff all the time. He said he bought Witcher 2, but I looked in the folder and it was an ISO and a .nfo saying it was cracked. So, yes I download programs, but games I let my friend download then he gives them to me on my 16GB Flash drive. I've always felt fine playing cracked games as long as you eventually buy them. I got Skyrim from a friend then bought it off steam later so I could get the stable Mod SDK. I also don't have a problem with download older games (PS1, Emulator) I find it dumb how it's still illegal to download PS1 Games. I messed up my 1st disk of Metal Gear Solid (rare edition). So I torrented. Is that illegal because I didn't have a working copy??

As i always say: Why spend money on something when you can get the exact same thing with the same features and same everything for free? I only buy games for their multi player. I see no point spending money on a single player only game or on a game that i wont play online. If i do want to play it online i buy it its simple as that. That is unless i can somehow play it online without buying it but thats very rare with new games. Older games are possible to play online without buying them. Same goes for music. Why should i buy it when i can listen to it for free? To support the makers? There will be always people supporting them. I didnt ask them to make anything i dont owe them anything. Because its illegal? Who cares? The police doesnt care they have other things to worry about and its also hard to track people who download stuff down anyway. If you doesnt download because you are scared of the police then you are just paranoid

[QUOTE=King Tiger;37627353]Jesus Christ that's exactly what we don't want. None of that means anything. How do we know any of those people actually pirated just to try? How is the testimony of 11 people "a lot" when the amount of piracy goes into the hundreds of thousands?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=King Tiger;37621831] Just go on and post whatever quotes you're thinking of. I don't think hexpunK would mind[/QUOTE] Honestly, don't tell me to post the quotes (I even said I'd edit more in) and then complain at me saying they're illegitimate. Did you genuinely believe I was going to post quotes of hundreds of thousands of people? And no, if a 'scientist' goes and collects the quotes from people, and then decides that they are telling the truth, doesn't mean they are telling the truth. That's just what one guy or a collective of people think. Pretty much any article you'll find is written with evidence of these anecdotes.

[QUOTE=SirGre;37623255]It's an issue because they are choosing to not give their money to the company in question. Whereas someone who can't afford the product justifies it with whatever claims are appropriate, the other person flat out wants the product without bothering to pay for it.[/QUOTE] Why can't someone find a justification even if they can pay for it?

[QUOTE=Adarrek;37628412]As i always say: Why spend money on something when you can get the exact same thing with the same features and same everything for free? I only buy games for their multi player. I see no point spending money on a single player only game or on a game that i wont play online. If i do want to play it online i buy it its simple as that. That is unless i can somehow play it online without buying it but thats very rare with new games. Older games are possible to play online without buying them. Same goes for music. Why should i buy it when i can listen to it for free? To support the makers? There will be always people supporting them. I didnt ask them to make anything i dont owe them anything. Because its illegal? Who cares? The police doesnt care they have other things to worry about and its also hard to track people who download stuff down anyway. If you doesnt download because you are scared of the police then you are just paranoid[/QUOTE] That's a horribru argument I think we can safely assume that many people have the same mindset as you. This might be a big chunk of revenue that these developers are missing Of course this isn't much of a problem when it comes to money farms like Call of Duty but what about games from upstart/smaller companies? Some of them are aspiring to become bigger names in the industry and you saying that there will always be people supporting them doesn't mean there will always be enough people to help expand them as a company. And in a way, you DID sort of ask them to make something and you DO owe them something. Obviously you show interest in their product and since you consumed their product you therefore have to make sure they get compensated for it. Imagine if you created a hit video game and it sold real well, but about a 4th of your users don't pay for the game. Don't you WANT the 1/4 amount of money you're not getting? Maybe you want to expand and develop even bigger games, but thanks to this 1/4 of your user populace your growth is slowed and you end up not expanding as fast as you had hoped. [editline]11th September 2012[/editline] I realize that the above hypothetical situation will fail to make an impression on you Imagine that you are at work. Imagine that all the projects your boss assigned are done, which leaves you with a little free time every week. In your free time you develop a program or something that would really help your company. But then your boss comes around and says, "I didn't ask you to make anything so you won't get paid extra" and your company goes on to surge in productivity and becomes better than ever. All this time you don't get any bonus, any raise, any promotion, simply because the users of the product didn't ask you to make it.

[QUOTE=Vasey105;37628475]Honestly, don't tell me to post the quotes (I even said I'd edit more in) and then complain at me saying they're illegitimate. Did you genuinely believe I was going to post quotes of hundreds of thousands of people? And no, if a 'scientist' goes and collects the quotes from people, and then decides that they are telling the truth, doesn't mean they are telling the truth. That's just what one guy or a collective of people think. Pretty much any article you'll find is written with evidence of these anecdotes.[/QUOTE] That wasn't the point. You can't compose something on the same level as a scientific poll for the same reason we wouldn't take your word for it (no matter how many quotes you provide) that X% of people want to rob a bank, own a house, or anything else.

[QUOTE=Doomish;37566654]But what happens if I buy it later instead of playing a bit of it first and it turns out I don't like it? If it's on Steam, I can't return it and get my money back. The fact that I plan to buy it later means I don't have the money right now and I plan to buy it later, simple as that. I'm not doing it to rectify my awful disgusting pirate actions or whatever; I want to buy the game and am going to do so, and why would I put off playing it if I have the capability to play it while I wait for my next paycheck, etc.?[/QUOTE] The fact you're playing a full game with no incentive to buy it beyond this odd self contract you have makes it still an omission of guilt. You can wait for your next paycheck or watch a letsplay of the videogame, or numerous reviews or go by your gut. You have means to research and find out before you buy. There are legitimate ways to find out instead of pirating the games. By pirating it you are omitting that you're too lazy to actually do the research. THESE ARE LUXURY ITEMS, YOU DO NOT REQUIRE TO HAVE IT.

[QUOTE=Megafan;37640901]That wasn't the point. You can't compose something on the same level as a scientific poll for the same reason we wouldn't take your word for it (no matter how many quotes you provide) that X% of people want to rob a bank, own a house, or anything else.[/QUOTE] Like I said, just because a 'scientist' collects the information from a poll, doesn't make it any more legitimate.

[QUOTE=Vasey105;37641970]Like I said, just because a 'scientist' collects the information from a poll, doesn't make it any more legitimate.[/QUOTE] It kinda does considering the data is usually peer reviewed and analysed. The data collection could still be biased, but most analysts avoid that for obvious reasons.

[QUOTE=Vasey105;37641970]Like I said, just because a 'scientist' collects the information from a poll, doesn't make it any more legitimate.[/QUOTE] Ha

[QUOTE=hexpunK;37642108]It kinda does considering the data is usually peer reviewed and analysed. The data collection could still be biased, but most analysts avoid that for obvious reasons.[/QUOTE] Even so, if a person approached you with the question: "What're your reasons for pirating?" (Let's just pretend you do for the given explanation) And then another person approached you with the exact same question, why would you give a different answer. I'm just going to guess that was one of the ways of getting peer review by double checking. Never the less, presumably they'd ask them a question that goes along the lines of "Do you pirate, and if so, for what reason?" And then the given answer would be treated as if that's the one and only reason they pirate. [QUOTE=King Tiger;37642385]Ha[/QUOTE] If you genuinely believe that just because a scientist said something it's immediately true, then you're gullible. [B]In my opinion[/B] though, the majority of the time they are right.

I pay for indie games, but will rarely buy games from larger companies. Not that larger companies don't deserve my money or anything, I just like supporting indie developers

[QUOTE=Adarrek;37628412]As i always say: Why spend money on something when you can get the exact same thing with the same features and same everything for free? I only buy games for their multi player. I see no point spending money on a single player only game or on a game that i wont play online. If i do want to play it online i buy it its simple as that. That is unless i can somehow play it online without buying it but thats very rare with new games. Older games are possible to play online without buying them. Same goes for music. Why should i buy it when i can listen to it for free? To support the makers? There will be always people supporting them. I didnt ask them to make anything i dont owe them anything. Because its illegal? Who cares? The police doesnt care they have other things to worry about and its also hard to track people who download stuff down anyway. If you doesnt download because you are scared of the police then you are just paranoid[/QUOTE] That's fine if you think that way but it makes you sound like a douche; no offence. You're taking things you don't deserve.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;37621831]They are legitimate if they are from a verified scientific experiment or survey. Just go on and post whatever quotes you're thinking of. I don't think hexpunK would mind. [editline]10th September 2012[/editline] Why is it an issue if they can afford it? Oh, an it actually is an issue when they can't because the makers of the game don't want people to have their product unless they buy it. So if they can't afford it that makes stealing OK. Because there is only one copy of the game being passed around physically between two people. No copies are being made.[/QUOTE] Yo nice strawman friend because I totally said it makes stealing okay Oh good to see you're talking for makers of games now too! Funny that you'd lambast that other guy for talking anecdotally, and then you do it yourself. Even Bill Gates said that he'd prefer people pirated windows than paid for a rival. In fact microsoft has very frequently talked about the benefits of piracy also you're equating piracy to stealing, which isn't how any intellectual property law in the UK or the US works. perhaps if the courts distinguish between someone who downloaded a film, and someone who stole a handbag, you should too. in fact, having read through the thread again, this comparison keeps being thrown up. stop. it isn't legitimate, at all. [editline]13th September 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Swilly;37641872]The fact you're playing a full game with no incentive to buy it beyond this odd self contract you have makes it still an omission of guilt. You can wait for your next paycheck or watch a letsplay of the videogame, or numerous reviews or go by your gut. You have means to research and find out before you buy. There are legitimate ways to find out instead of pirating the games. By pirating it you are omitting that you're too lazy to actually do the research. THESE ARE LUXURY ITEMS, YOU DO NOT REQUIRE TO HAVE IT.[/QUOTE] But why would anyone do that, which are all utterly inferior ways of checking how the game runs or plays compared to getting a pirate copy? this isn't a case of doing the research, this is you believing that a let's play means you can work out how well the fucking game runs also if you look at the OP of the thread, he's arguing that piracy can be used as a business opportunity. Which it can be. If you're going to argue that piracy is 100% bad, you're fighting a losing battle.

I only buy stuff worth buying Most music isnt worth buying

[QUOTE=DirtySanchez;37654374]I only buy stuff worth buying Most music isnt worth buying[/QUOTE] Does that entitle you to that music? No, not really. You have no reason to obtain the music if you don't think it's worth buying as clearly, it's not worth your time if you can't justify purchasing it. Though that does make me slightly hypocritical as a lot of my music is stuff I've shared with and received from friends. Publishers do charge an exceptionally high amount for most music which is kinda aggravating.

I only "pirate" games I bought before and they got ruined like TES4 Oblivion.

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;37652432]Yo nice strawman friend because I totally said it makes stealing okay[/quote] What's is the strawman of my post? Point out the strawman to me please, and explain when I attack the strawman instead of your argument. Or do you not even know what the definition of a strawman is? And by the way, you did insinuate that stealling is OK by saying: [quote]If people cannot afford something, and they pirate it, then there's no issue.[/quote] And [quote]I'm afraid that it IS up to people to say if it's too expensive or not, because if it is, they'll get it for free. They'll weigh in with their wallets.[/quote] [quote]Oh good to see you're talking for makers of games now too! Funny that you'd lambast that other guy for talking anecdotally, and then you do it yourself. Even Bill Gates said that he'd prefer people pirated windows than paid for a rival. In fact microsoft has very frequently talked about the benefits of piracy[/quote] I was referring specifically to those developers or publishers who intentionally attempt to block their products from being pirated through DRM or other means. And where is the anecdote? What personal story or example did I use? Once again, you have used a word you do no understand. [quote]also you're equating piracy to stealing, which isn't how any intellectual property law in the UK or the US works. perhaps if the courts distinguish between someone who downloaded a film, and someone who stole a handbag, you should too. in fact, having read through the thread again, this comparison keeps being thrown up. stop. it isn't legitimate, at all.[/QUOTE] So stealing a car isn't stealing because it's not called stealing by law. Actually, I don't think even taking an item from someone illegally is called stealing. I'ts larceny. I guess there's no such thing as stealing because it's never mentioned anywhere in U.S. law!

[QUOTE] If people cannot afford something, and they pirate it, then there's no issue.[/QUOTE] That's actually pretty much right, if they don't have the money for it, then they would have never bought it anyway. But that's only if they felt it was too expensive, if not, then they wouldn't pirate it.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;37656950]What's is the strawman of my post? Point out the strawman to me please, and explain when I attack the strawman instead of your argument. Or do you not even know what the definition of a strawman is? And by the way, you did insinuate that stealling is OK by saying: And I was referring specifically to those developers or publishers who intentionally attempt to block their products from being pirated through DRM or other means. And where is the anecdote? What personal story or example did I use? Once again, you have used a word you do no understand. So stealing a car isn't stealing because it's not called stealing by law. Actually, I don't think even taking an item from someone illegally is called stealing. I'ts larceny. I guess there's no such thing as stealing because it's never mentioned anywhere in U.S. law![/QUOTE] you're claiming that I said stealing is okay. Where did I say that. What you think I 'insinuate' is so utterly irrelevant that posting that was worthless. We're in a piracy debate, talking about piracy, and you thought I was making claims about examples that aren't software piracy? please, is this how you actually argue? Guess what buddy, UK law has a very clear definition of theft [URL]http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/60/crossheading/definition-of-theft[/URL] "A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it;" is that what piracy is? Sadly, once again, just because [B]YOU[/B] believe piracy is stealing, does not mean that is what the courts think. I'm gonna go ahead and say that I trust the definition provided by law, over the definition that an angry man on the internet provides. oh and before you claim that there have been amendments to the 1968 act, there haven't been any that equate piracy to stealing, there is a REASON we have a law for copyright infringement, and a law for theft. what personal story did you use? You said that makers of games don't want people to have their product unless they buy it. You sound like you're on a personal first name basis with every developer on earth, providing absolutely no evidence. substantiate this claim please. also your last line is utterly pathetic, seeing as in the definition of larceny, it uses the wording of "THE [B]REMOVAL[/B] OF [B]tangible personal property"[/B] got any other arguments that relate to the word that different countries use for theft, or are you done?

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;37661817]you're claiming that I said stealing is okay. Where did I say that. What you think I 'insinuate' is so utterly irrelevant that posting that was worthless. We're in a piracy debate, talking about piracy, and you thought I was making claims about examples that aren't software piracy? please, is this how you actually argue? Guess what buddy, UK law has a very clear definition of theft [URL]http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/60/crossheading/definition-of-theft[/URL] "A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it;" is that what piracy is? Sadly, once again, just because [B]YOU[/B] believe piracy is stealing, does not mean that is what the courts think. I'm gonna go ahead and say that I trust the definition provided by law, over the definition that an angry man on the internet provides. oh and before you claim that there have been amendments to the 1968 act, there haven't been any that equate piracy to stealing, there is a REASON we have a law for copyright infringement, and a law for theft. what personal story did you use? You said that makers of games don't want people to have their product unless they buy it. You sound like you're on a personal first name basis with every developer on earth, providing absolutely no evidence. substantiate this claim please. also your last line is utterly pathetic, seeing as in the definition of larceny, it uses the wording of "THE [B]REMOVAL[/B] OF [B]tangible personal property"[/B] got any other arguments that relate to the word that different countries use for theft, or are you done?[/QUOTE] Ok so you say that piracy isn't stealing Lets check your supplied definition of it "Dishonestly appropriating property from another person with the intent of permanently depriving him of it" Lets see... So you pirate a game, thats not stealing. But what about the money that goes on the price tag of the game? You, by obtaining a game without paying for it, have just appropriated the game's monetary value, and have also not given the equal amount of money to the copyright holder, so in this way you have just permanently deprived the owner of the money that the game obtained is worth. And dont give me any bullshit like "Its not permanent because they can get the money from other sales" NO. It is permanent because they still dont have the say, ~20-50 dollars that YOU owe them.There, solid proof that piracy is stealing. Later of course you may choose to buy the game, but by then the price may have already dropped.

[QUOTE=BFG9000;37669561]Ok so you say that piracy isn't stealing Lets check your supplied definition of it "Dishonestly appropriating property from another person with the intent of permanently depriving him of it" Lets see... So you pirate a game, thats not stealing. But what about the money that goes on the price tag of the game? You, by obtaining a game without paying for it, have just appropriated the game's monetary value, and have also not given the equal amount of money to the copyright holder, so in this way you have just permanently deprived the owner of the money that the game obtained is worth. And dont give me any bullshit like "Its not permanent because they can get the money from other sales" NO. It is permanent because they still dont have the say, ~20-50 dollars that YOU owe them.There, solid proof that piracy is stealing. Later of course you may choose to buy the game, but by then the price may have already dropped.[/QUOTE] I agree that Piracy is stealing if you permanently take it, but I think of them more as demo's, I play them, to test out features and the such, but then buy them, if they're actually worth the money.

[QUOTE=Vasey105;37669861]I agree that Piracy is stealing if you permanently take it, but I think of them more as demo's, I play them, to test out features and the such, but then buy them, if they're actually worth the money.[/QUOTE] I'm not going to have a go for the whole evidence thing this time. Don't worry. Instead, I give you this. By pirating the game, do you not realise you are making it worse for customers who just wanted to buy the games? Your piracy, even if it is just to try the game, looks like a permanent theft of the game to them. Meaning they will ramp up methods to stop such things happening, which are usually really easily broken and instead just fuck paying customers over more instead. The companies that are implementing stronger DRM realise that it is failing, but continue to do it anyway to discourage people who don't give enough of a shit to break the DRM through cracks. And by pirating the game, while going by how the company sees it, they will likely think that it is genuine interest in the game. Much like a normal sale. If you want a demo for the games you want to try, you will literally need to stop pirating (everyone would need to preferably, but that isn't happening) and instead petition/ ask the developers for demo releases (again, this would require most of the PC communities to actually work together, not happening). No matter how you justify your piracy, companies will still use the number of downloads on their products to gauge interest. It's just the logical thing to do from a business perspective (I know I would if I was on a board of directors). Instead it just makes it worse for paying customers who genuinely want the game.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;37670428]I'm not going to have a go for the whole evidence thing this time. Don't worry. Instead, I give you this. By pirating the game, do you not realise you are making it worse for customers who just wanted to buy the games? Your piracy, even if it is just to try the game, looks like a permanent theft of the game to them. Meaning they will ramp up methods to stop such things happening, which are usually really easily broken and instead just fuck paying customers over more instead. The companies that are implementing stronger DRM realise that it is failing, but continue to do it anyway to discourage people who don't give enough of a shit to break the DRM through cracks. And by pirating the game, while going by how the company sees it, they will likely think that it is genuine interest in the game. Much like a normal sale. If you want a demo for the games you want to try, you will literally need to stop pirating (everyone would need to preferably, but that isn't happening) and instead petition/ ask the developers for demo releases (again, this would require most of the PC communities to actually work together, not happening). No matter how you justify your piracy, companies will still use the number of downloads on their products to gauge interest. It's just the logical thing to do from a business perspective (I know I would if I was on a board of directors). Instead it just makes it worse for paying customers who genuinely want the game.[/QUOTE] Except, we do want the game and will purchase it. Well, at least I do anyway. And that's the thing, the demo's should already be there for us to test them, and most of the time, the demo's do not reveal enough content to make an assumption of how good the game is, and whether it's worth your money or not. Also, my respects for not making me go on a quoting rampage.

[QUOTE=Vasey105;37670604]Except, we do want the game and will purchase it. Well, at least I do anyway. And that's the thing, the demo's should already be there for us to test them, and most of the time, the demo's do not reveal enough content to make an assumption of how good the game is, and whether it's worth your money or not. Also, my respects for not making me go on a quoting rampage.[/QUOTE] Demo's are usually structured in a way to show off the great and hide the mediocre. But I think Square Enix have it right so far (one of the only companies to release PC demo's still). The Just Cause 2 demo was very open, you got to play with almost anything the full game had if you could find it, just a really small area to play in as a restriction. The Sleeping Dogs demo also showed off the combat pretty well, but it didn't really show the free roaming aspect outside of the first few minutes. If there was less piracy and more actual consumer restraint we might actually start to see demo's that show the game off enough to actually make a sound judgement. Though with the popularity of gaming today consumer restraint is non-existent.