Piracy? or Try before you buy? - General

[QUOTE=Doctor_Dave;37712228]That doesn't matter, but when you make up an excuse to hide it is what I'm talking about. Like the example I made, it's not impossible to make money for music/games so it really just can't be used as an excuse. I just notice a lot of "I don't have money so it's okay to do it" in this thread and it just tips me off because it's not. You don't need to justify it, you just don't want to pay for it. I mean, is it really that hard to say?[/QUOTE] I agree I always find it funny that people try make up excuses rather than admit to what they're doing. We might have skewed morals but at least we're open about that rather than pretending to be good.

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;37652432] But why would anyone do that, which are all utterly inferior ways of checking how the game runs or plays compared to getting a pirate copy?[/quote] Its not inferior, at all, watching the gameplay is almost the same as playing, especially if its a PC game. If you were watching it to buy for the PS3 and watching someone play on a 360 I would understand but games that are on PC literally use the the same keyboards and mice. [quote] this isn't a case of doing the research, this is you believing that a let's play means you can work out how well the fucking game runs[/quote] This is me saying that by downloading the game, you're basically saying that instead of just doing research or asking friends. You'd rather give legitimate claims for games companies to mess with the general consumer because you're being greedy. The entire idea that research and review is inferior to actual play is an entirely greedy proposition. [quote] also if you look at the OP of the thread, he's arguing that piracy can be used as a business opportunity. Which it can be. If you're going to argue that piracy is 100% bad, you're fighting a losing battle.[/QUOTE] And if you give into to piracy what does that do? You don't get money, you don't get paid and then basically you don't eat. And I'm not talking about AAA developers. I'm talking about the small time developers who get ripped off horribly by asshats. The small man is always the ignored one. Its not a business opportunity unless you turn it into a hilarious living hell for the pirate, like Serious Sam. But for games that don't have the joking aura around them, there are plenty of games that under a serious context would get torn apart for adding such features. There is no gain from letting people pirate. There really isn't and the fact that those same people who advocate piracy also advocate buying the game after are showing an admission of guilt. You also are relaying on an honor code and lets face it, there are very few human beings who will actually honor it. For Christ's sake, there are hack groups specifically bent on fucking over large developers by allowing people to pirate it.

Watched the new RSA animate and was instantly reminded of this thread. It's about the rationalisations we do to justify bad behaviours and how it is essentially human nature. Not that that is a good thing but rather something that must be considered and/or overcome. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBmJay_qdNc[/media] Start at 4:15 for this thread in a nutshell.

well i feel like i am robbed when I pay 60 bucks for a shitty game. and I kind of like to avoid dropping ANY amount of money on shit, so go piracy. Honestly i dont really give a fuck who i am ripping off.

[QUOTE=MalwareOhMy!;37738753]well i feel like i am robbed when I pay 60 bucks for a shitty game. and I kind of like to avoid dropping ANY amount of money on shit, so go piracy. Honestly i dont really give a fuck who i am ripping off.[/QUOTE] You could, oh, I don't know. Actually think before you drop 60 on a game? Just because something is aggressively advertised does not mean you can suddenly lose all rationality and buy it, just to be disappointed. Research the game you are buying, or buy on a whim and take a chance. But being disappointed in your purchase doesn't mean you have a right to just start pirating games. If you want developers to make more interesting games, piracy isn't going to help that at all and will just stagnate the fuck out of AAA titles. No publisher will take risks if they see one type of game selling extremely well, while others are pirated.

[QUOTE=MalwareOhMy!;37738753]well i feel like i am robbed when I pay 60 bucks for a shitty game. and I kind of like to avoid dropping ANY amount of money on shit, so go piracy. Honestly i dont really give a fuck who i am ripping off.[/QUOTE] Don't buy games you can't return then. And if games are only available from a non-returnable source, then watch playthroughs, read/watch reviews, ask friends, rent/borrow it from a friend.

I remember being banned of Facepunch for admitting to piracy, when all I done was say "I downloaded the PC version of the game with a crack, but I bought it on Xbox". To me, in my opinion. isn't piracy, the company got their money which I had given them to play this game. I normally try before I buy, but the worst thing is, if I won't buy it, I will probably keep paying it until the end, and then go "well no point buying it now if I've already finished it".

[QUOTE=zeromancer;37766662]I remember being banned of Facepunch for admitting to piracy, when all I done was say "I downloaded the PC version of the game with a crack, but I bought it on Xbox". To me, in my opinion. isn't piracy, the company got their money which I had given them to play this game. I normally try before I buy, but the worst thing is, if I won't buy it, I will probably keep paying it until the end, and then go "well no point buying it now if I've already finished it".[/QUOTE] You don't buy the game. You buy the license to use that copy of the game. So pirating the PC version just because you bought the 360 version is still piracy. You are obtaining a copy of the game you are legally not entitled to play.

Lol..who actually torrents games just to try them...

i don't make excuses about my piracy. i pirate things because i don't want to pay for them, however if i find that the developer, in my opinion, really deserves my money for a game they put a lot of time in effort to, i will happily buy the game afterwards or even beforehand. i have many pirated games, but i also have many many games in my steam library that i purchased without a second thought. gaben once said that companies that run into piracy issues are companies that have a lack of accessibility with their games. this is partially true in my opinion. if there is a game that has a fun single player campaign but a useless, buggy, and boring multiplayer i will often pirate it just to experience the single player campaign. if the game is based on countless hours of experience in a great and accessible multiplayer environment, for example games like starcraft ii or garry's mod, it's worth buying right off the bat in my opinion.

pricing is a big part of it. like portal 2 for example. no matter how much effort valve puts into it, I would still feel ripped off if I paid $59 for a puzzle game, so I waited until it was on sale for $6. if a game has sufficient content for the price most people don't mind paying for it, that's why garrysmod is so successful.

[QUOTE=Bruhmis;37857964]pricing is a big part of it. like portal 2 for example. no matter how much effort valve puts into it, I would still feel ripped off if I paid $59 for a puzzle game, so I waited until it was on sale for $6. if a game has sufficient content for the price most people don't mind paying for it, that's why garrysmod is so successful.[/QUOTE] This is a great idea for people who think games cost too much. Most games drop in price within a few months of their release. Pricing is not a reason to pirate.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;37858630]This is a great idea for people who think games cost too much. Most games drop in price within a few months of their release. Pricing is not a reason to pirate.[/QUOTE] if developers are putting out underwhelming products and charging unreasonable prices for them, they're going to deal with the consequences of that. portal 2 always looked good to me, and I love valve, but $59.99 was not a fair price to me so I never bought it until the sale. and I was right, if I would have payed 59.99 I would have felt ripped off regardless of how much I liked it. global offensive on the other hand, I bought that on launch. a multiplayer only game with a small amount of maps appropriately priced at $15. you wouldn't jump on somebody for borrowing a game and completing it then never buying their own copy, so how is pirating any different? if there is sufficient content in the game I borrow, I'm likely to buy my own copy, just like pirating.

[QUOTE=Bruhmis;37858879]if developers are putting out underwhelming products and charging unreasonable prices for them, they're going to deal with the consequences of that. portal 2 always looked good to me, and I love valve, but $59.99 was not a fair price to me so I never bought it until the sale. and I was right, if I would have payed 59.99 I would have felt ripped off regardless of how much I liked it. global offensive on the other hand, I bought that on launch. a multiplayer only game with a small amount of maps appropriately priced at $15. you wouldn't jump on somebody for borrowing a game and completing it then never buying their own copy, so how is pirating any different? if there is sufficient content in the game I borrow, I'm likely to buy my own copy, just like pirating.[/QUOTE] When you borrow a game, there's a understanding that you need to give it back to the owner; you don't have a "permanent" copy. Also, the scale of piracy and the self-entitled attitude it fosters is enough to have an impact.

[QUOTE=Bruhmis;37858879]if developers are putting out underwhelming products and charging unreasonable prices for them, they're going to deal with the consequences of that. portal 2 always looked good to me, and I love valve, but $59.99 was not a fair price to me so I never bought it until the sale. and I was right, if I would have payed 59.99 I would have felt ripped off regardless of how much I liked it. global offensive on the other hand, I bought that on launch. a multiplayer only game with a small amount of maps appropriately priced at $15. you wouldn't jump on somebody for borrowing a game and completing it then never buying their own copy, so how is pirating any different? if there is sufficient content in the game I borrow, I'm likely to buy my own copy, just like pirating.[/QUOTE] First of all, when you say that games are overpriced but underwhelming and that should be reflected, don't you mean that it should be reflected by low numbers of people playing the game? Why would you pirate a game and play it if it's underwhelming? Secondly, no, it's not like borrowing a game then returning it because in that scenario there was one single copy of the game that had already been purchased, perhaps it was being traded by friends. More copies weren't produced without the makers getting compensation.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;37868439]First of all, when you say that games are overpriced but underwhelming and that should be reflected, don't you mean that it should be reflected by low numbers of people playing the game? Why would you pirate a game and play it if it's underwhelming? Secondly, no, it's not like borrowing a game then returning it because in that scenario there was one single copy of the game that had already been purchased, perhaps it was being traded by friends. More copies weren't produced without the makers getting compensation.[/QUOTE] ''don't you mean that it should be reflected by low numbers of people playing the game?'' no. I don't think that every developer should be faced with having to make a giant juggernaut of a game, and I don't think that bigger developers should be discouraged from that either. take a game like red dead redemption, most people would be more than happy to pay the full $59.99 price tag for that, because it's massive, robust and contains sufficient value for the asking price. now compare that to a game like magicka, I like magicka and so do a lot of other people, but if they would have charged $59.99 for it the game probably would have sold under 1000 copies and had a 10/1 torrent ratio. ''More copies weren't produced without the makers getting compensation.'' if you borrow a game and complete it, you're experiencing the game without the developer seeing a penny for their work. do you really think developers care HOW they're losing money? obviously not, seeing as most developers punish you for having a non-preordered copy of the game. [editline]1st October 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Jabberwocky;37868385]When you borrow a game, there's a understanding that you need to give it back to the owner; you don't have a "permanent" copy. Also, the scale of piracy and the self-entitled attitude it fosters is enough to have an impact.[/QUOTE] if you wait until a friend is completely done with a game so you can borrow it, you obviously never felt that the game was worth the money in the first place. and from the developers point of view, it's basically the same concept. you're experiencing the game without paying for it, that's how a developer loses money.

[QUOTE=Bruhmis;37869382]''don't you mean that it should be reflected by low numbers of people playing the game?'' no. I don't think that every developer should be faced with having to make a giant juggernaut of a game, and I don't think that bigger developers should be discouraged from that either. take a game like red dead redemption, most people would be more than happy to pay the full $59.99 price tag for that, because it's massive, robust and contains sufficient value for the asking price. now compare that to a game like magicka, I like magicka and so do a lot of other people, but if they would have charged $59.99 for it the game probably would have sold under 1000 copies and had a 10/1 torrent ratio. ''More copies weren't produced without the makers getting compensation.'' if you borrow a game and complete it, you're experiencing the game without the developer seeing a penny for their work. do you really think developers care HOW they're losing money? obviously not, seeing as most developers punish you for having a non-preordered copy of the game. [editline]1st October 2012[/editline] if you wait until a friend is completely done with a game so you can borrow it, you obviously never felt that the game was worth the money in the first place. and from the developers point of view, it's basically the same concept. you're experiencing the game without paying for it, that's how a developer loses money.[/QUOTE] It's not the same because making more copies if the game with no compensation to the developer devalues the game's value down to $0.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;37871705]It's not the same because making more copies if the game with no compensation to the developer devalues the game's value down to $0.[/QUOTE] torrenting a game is not ''making more copies''. it's downloading the files that came with the original copy. and making more copies doesn't have any different affect than if you were to play the game without paying for it any other way. if a game get's released and 1000 people buy it, and 500 of them lend it to a friend, it has an identical financial effect on the developer that 500 people torrenting it would have. ''devalues the game's value down to $0'' that doesn't make any sense. by this logic, almost every game in history is worth $0.

When people make pirated versions of a game or movie, this should be the point where companies should try to find ways to block such methods. Its like hackers who get caught, instead of going to jail like most they are offered a job to show and help the government stop other hackers who might use the same method in the future and increase security. Just a opinion, Like most games they require a Key of some sort and only certain keys are made by the company. That stops 'most' not all people from having a illegal copy.

[QUOTE=Bruhmis;37874384]torrenting a game is not ''making more copies''. it's downloading the files that came with the original copy. and making more copies doesn't have any different affect than if you were to play the game without paying for it any other way. if a game get's released and 1000 people buy it, and 500 of them lend it to a friend, it has an identical financial effect on the developer that 500 people torrenting it would have. ''devalues the game's value down to $0'' that doesn't make any sense. by this logic, almost every game in history is worth $0.[/QUOTE] Not at all. If you give a game away, you no longer have access to it. Making unlimited copies makes the game essentially worthless, since I can get unlimited amounts of it for free.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;37878567]Not at all. If you give a game away, you no longer have access to it. Making unlimited copies makes the game essentially worthless, since I can get unlimited amounts of it for free.[/QUOTE] ''Making unlimited copies makes the game essentially worthless'' this logic is a complete contradiction. the video game industry is the most successful media industry on the planet, and you're literally saying that all video games have a nil value.

[QUOTE=Bruhmis;37883260]''Making unlimited copies makes the game essentially worthless'' this logic is a complete contradiction. the video game industry is the most successful media industry on the planet, and you're literally saying that all video games have a nil value.[/QUOTE] I'm not saying that. But the fact is that if you can acquire a game for nothing and make unlimited copies of it at no cost, then it is worthless. People who buy it are buying a worthless product since they can probably get it for free.

I guess I look at it more as "try so you don't have to buy" (at least for new games). Most of the time if there is a game I'm 100% sure I want, I'll buy it, no questions asked. However, if it's something I want, but know I want it more for a gimmicky purpose than for gameplay, then I'll totally pirate it. For example: I knew the PC version of Dark Souls was going to be horrendous, yet I just wanted to see [I]how[/I] horrendous. So I torrented it instead of dropping $30 or so on a game I played for about 5 minutes and knew I would hate, I just tried it out. I've also become a bit of a purist. I don't like playing games on systems they weren't originally developed for. I used to have tons of ROMs and games downloaded on the Wii, but I just don't feel like it's the same.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;37890195]I'm not saying that. But the fact is that if you can acquire a game for nothing and make unlimited copies of it at no cost, then it is worthless. People who buy it are buying a worthless product since they can probably get it for free.[/QUOTE] that's exactly what you're saying, and you just said it again. ''People who buy it are buying a worthless product'' worthless means nil value, and 99.9% of all games are available for free from torrent sights.

[QUOTE=Bruhmis;37896840]that's exactly what you're saying, and you just said it again. ''People who buy it are buying a worthless product'' worthless means nil value, and 99.9% of all games are available for free from torrent sights.[/QUOTE] I don't know why you even bother... He doesn't agree, doesn't want to agree.... Ignorant much? If it were up to me I'd say that this conversation isn't going anywhere. But from your standpoint you make more sense, so I'd vote for your post being the best over this debate. Unless he continues of course, then you have the exact same thing on your plate; just said differently (which occurs already in his/her second post). TL;DR: It's a loop. EDIT: Didn't know it was two people saying the same thing... My apologies.

I don't believe piracy is justifiable in any circumstance; but saying that, I disagree with the actions publishers and developers take in an attempt to curb something that will never be stopped. DRM may sound like a good idea, but the only people it disadvantages are those who pay for the product. Those who pirate will have access to copies which lack DRM. I've read that publishers put DRM on games to delay the inevitable of someone cracking the protection, in an attempt to secure day-one sales. But really, if someone is dedicated on pirating something, they'll probably end up pirating it no matter how long it takes for the protection to be cracked (which is probably a few days or even hours after release for most games). I do believe that there are people out there who will pirate a game to test it (if there is no demo available), I don't believe it's justified but I don't really blame them . Reading reviews and watching gameplay videos on YouTube is pretty good for getting an idea on something, but it just can't beat the feeling of actually playing the game. Developers (and publishers, because they would have a say on the matter) should look into releasing demos for games if they don't do so already.

When it comes to games with no demo, I don't see the harm in downloading a pirated version of the game. It's usually not of the same quality as a legit copy and won't have multiplayer. I know several ceses where I downloaded a pirated ersion of a game to try it out before I spend monkey on it. And if I like it, I'll buy the game legally to get the best experience from the game that it has to offer. It's how I decided to buy Gmod, actually.

Buy two copies then sell one if you don't like it. That's how I do it and this is how you Can do it as well.

I used to pirate a bit, but have generally started to control how much I do now. When you first learn about it its all 'HOLY SHIT I CAN GET ALL THIS CRAP FOR FREE' but then eventually the novelty of the idea wears off, and while every now and then I still will pirate a game, Its less than once a month so yeh Also, I never pirate indie games, I think thats a bit unfair

[QUOTE=ostrich160;37959097]I used to pirate a bit, but have generally started to control how much I do now. When you first learn about it its all 'HOLY SHIT I CAN GET ALL THIS CRAP FOR FREE' but then eventually the novelty of the idea wears off, and while every now and then I still will pirate a game, Its less than once a month so yeh Also, I never pirate indie games, I think thats a bit unfair[/QUOTE] Why is it unfair to pirate indie games, yet to you is probably acceptable to pirate say the next EA game?