[QUOTE=Phaesol;38143410]I consider loaning a game to a friend to see if he wants to buy it and pirating the same thing, I don't give a fuck what companies think, if you don't release a demo for a game I'll borrow or pirate it before I decide if I want to buy it. The difference between pirating and borrowing from someone else is just the amount of people borrowing from one person.
Factors in my buying decision include price, replayibility and some small personal preferences(a like a good challenge), most triple AAA titles entitle themselves to a $60 price tag, largely just covering marketing costs. Tacking on a shitty generic multiplayer doesn't add replayibility nor justify the price for me, which is why I often find myself only purchasing smaller titles. Titles that were just made and not a product for a target market, that was playtested by casual babbies who completely ruin the game. For example, Dishonored, I was really excited for this shit, I haven't purchased a $60 game in 2 years, I had high expectations and I love stealth games, but the people who play tested it a month before release were a bunch of morons who couldn't play for shit, and of course Bethesda urged Arkane to make it appeal more to the general audience.
If I just would have tried it before I bought it, it would have completely changed my decision. And if the publishers see that as piracy, then maybe they should take the hint as to why I didn't buy it. If you want to make quality games, then you shouldn't need to rely on not releasing a demo and expecting everyone to just buy it because you hyped it up to look good.[/QUOTE]
I don't think stealing a game because you didn't think it was worth a purchase justifies piracy. I don't think all candy bars are worth a purchase, but I don't steal the ones I wouldn't buy.
Trying before you buy is a pretty crappy excuse, that's why they make demos (probably).
I get minimum wage and it's hard to buy a £50 game every time a new release comes out, so sometimes, yes I do.
Console gamers are peasants, but PC gamers love to steal games. Lol.
[QUOTE=Mattyyy;38236739]Trying before you buy is a pretty crappy excuse, that's why they make demos (probably).
I get minimum wage and it's hard to buy a £50 game every time a new release comes out, so sometimes, yes I do.[/QUOTE]
They don't really make demos anymore, though.
[QUOTE=venn178;38250504]They don't really make demos anymore, though.[/QUOTE]
Probably because you could get a good idea of what they're like by playing a mission from the latest modern warfare game or playing a couple of combat sequences from dragon age 2.
piracy will never ever go away. ever.
to that note i don't see the point in buying any game ever if it doesn't have good replay value. or i just really really really like it.
or if it's indie and i like it.
[editline]30th October 2012[/editline]
also if you have a PC and are complaining about how you don't know which game to get stick it up your ass please.
if you're so god damned desperate just pirate one and buy the other.
only because in gaming section like every other 3rd post is "SHOULD I GET THIS?!'-OR THIS?!"
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Making statements about the future as fact, general hostility - Strike 2" - Megafan))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=FoodStuffs;38254324]piracy will never ever go away. ever.
to that note i don't see the point in buying any game ever if it doesn't have good replay value. or i just really really really like it.
or if it's indie and i like it.
[editline]30th October 2012[/editline]
also if you have a PC and are complaining about how you don't know which game to get stick it up your ass please.
if you're so god damned desperate just pirate one and buy the other.
only because in gaming section like every other 3rd post is "SHOULD I GET THIS?!'-OR THIS?!"[/QUOTE]
"These people deserve my money, but not these people."
Everyone wants something for nothing, it seems.
[QUOTE=Agoat;38232241]I don't think stealing a game because you didn't think it was worth a purchase justifies piracy. I don't think all candy bars are worth a purchase, but I don't steal the ones I wouldn't buy.[/QUOTE]
Candy Bars are like 1USD at most, a game is typically 60USD.
I don't know if I'm going to really want to spend 60USD to get something I don't like nor want. What the hell do I do with a wasted 60 dollar product like that? What if it doesn't even run on my computer?
PC games don't have loads of demos and demos are always designed to hook you in, what if the game takes a torrental shit halfway through?
You can't return them, doesn't work like that, lots of stores near me don't do that.
You can't give it to a friend, almost every game is now a one-time use CD-Key and typically on STEAM/Origin.
So great, you're stuck with a 60 dollar product you can't use nor want.
(Goat you better be tearing this shit up :v:)
[QUOTE=doommarine23;38256654]Candy Bars are like 1USD at most, a game is typically 60USD.
I don't know if I'm going to really want to spend 60USD to get something I don't like nor want. What the hell do I do with a wasted 60 dollar product like that? What if it doesn't even run on my computer?
PC games don't have loads of demos and demos are always designed to hook you in, what if the game takes a torrental shit halfway through?
You can't return them, doesn't work like that, lots of stores near me don't do that.
You can't give it to a friend, almost every game is now a one-time use CD-Key and typically on STEAM/Origin.
So great, you're stuck with a 60 dollar product you can't use nor want.
(Goat you better be tearing this shit up :v:)[/QUOTE]
(Spec-ops!)
I sympathize with the idea of games not running on every computer, but not much else. I don't go out and buy every game because I know there are games I won't like. I look into games, watch videos, and can typically judge whether or not I'll like it. Sometimes I take a chance on a game, and sometimes I get let down. Such is life. But if you're not willing to spend the money, don't get the game. Many gamers feel entitled to every game release (Not you, Dylan, I know you), but the fact of the matter is the only thing that entitles someone to a game is the money they pay for it. Not everyone can afford these games, but when you can sell hats in a free to play game for new releases, there's no excuse.
[QUOTE=Agoat;38256886](Spec-ops!)
I sympathize with the idea of games not running on every computer, but not much else. I don't go out and buy every game because I know there are games I won't like. I look into games, watch videos, and can typically judge whether or not I'll like it. Sometimes I take a chance on a game, and sometimes I get let down. Such is life. But if you're not willing to spend the money, don't get the game. Many gamers feel entitled to every game release (Not you, Dylan, I know you), but the fact of the matter is the only thing that entitles someone to a game is the money they pay for it. Not everyone can afford these games, but when you can sell hats in a free to play game for new releases, there's no excuse.[/QUOTE]
That's a pretty good point and argument to it, I just figure that for many people, seeing a game or videos of it isn't enough, many prefer to actually get their hands dirty and actually know if they REALLY want to drop 60 bux on that shit. But you're right, it's a risk, like anything else we buy, and videos/pictures and reviews exist for a reason. (Hard-Core :v:)
I'm not even going to comment on f2p hat economies because I can't wrap my head around this.
[QUOTE=doommarine23;38256918]That's a pretty good point and argument to it, I just figure that for many people, seeing a game or videos of it isn't enough, many prefer to actually get their hands dirty and actually know if they REALLY want to drop 60 bux on that shit. But you're right, it's a risk, like anything else we buy, and videos/pictures and reviews exist for a reason. (Hard-Core :v:)
I'm not even going to comment on f2p hat economies because I can't wrap my head around this.[/QUOTE]
It was partially a joke, but in Team Fortress 2 you can sell some of the hats for money. A friend of mine makes actual money off of Team Fortress.
I prefer to play demos myself, but I don't feel entitled to torrent the game if there isn't one. If it's multiplayer-focused (Call of Duty comes to mind), I can see why it might be important to see if you can run it, but I don't see it as much more than justification for what I consider theft. Very rarely do I see people actually purchase a game after pirating it.
[QUOTE=Mattyyy;38236739]Trying before you buy is a pretty crappy excuse, that's why they make demos (probably).
I get minimum wage and it's hard to buy a £50 game every time a new release comes out, so sometimes, yes I do.[/QUOTE]
How is it a crappy excuse? I don't torrent games that actually have demos (few actually come out anymore and if they do it ends up conveniently being a few months after release), and if I do torrent it's because they didn't have one, and I wanted to demo it for a few minutes myself and see how it runs on my computer.
[QUOTE=Agoat;38232241]I don't think stealing a game because you didn't think it was worth a purchase justifies piracy. I don't think all candy bars are worth a purchase, but I don't steal the ones I wouldn't buy.[/QUOTE]
But try taking that candy bar thing of yours, and turning it into something more expensive. Candy bars are small time, an impulse buy if you will. But as stuff starts to get more expensive, people always want to try it on. You can usually try stuff on at a clothing store, test drive cars, try out consoles at gamestop, try out an iPod at an apple store or a laptop at electronic store.
[QUOTE=Agoat;38256981]It was partially a joke, but in Team Fortress 2 you can sell some of the hats for money. A friend of mine makes actual money off of Team Fortress.
I prefer to play demos myself, but I don't feel entitled to torrent the game if there isn't one. If it's multiplayer-focused (Call of Duty comes to mind), I can see why it might be important to see if you can run it, but I don't see it as much more than justification for what I consider theft. Very rarely do I see people actually purchase a game after pirating it.[/QUOTE]
The pirating itself isn't theft. If I download a game and then delete it without even installing it, does anyone lose anything? A lost sale due to piracy is theft. I.e. pirating the game, playing it and not paying for it. You can't compare piracy to real life theft because in real life the original is lost, which in turn makes the person who you stole from lose the amount of cash the thing you've stole was worth. It doesn't happen in piracy. If I download something and then delete it, nobody loses 50$. They only lose it if I otherwise would buy the game. Is downloading something that's unavailable legally a theft? No, they wouldn't get the money anyway.
And I have played a demo or a pirated version of almost every game that I've bought. And mind you my steam account alone is worth $865.46.
The one thing I always associate piracy with is the library. The library buys a 'book' once and shares it for free with anyone who wants it. The people who 'read' the book never buy it because it wasn't worth any of their money, or, they do buy it because the book IS worth their money. People who 'read' and never buy are doing everything 100% legally (vandalism and whatnot excluded). So my question is why is it perfectly, ABSOLUTELY, 100% legally acceptable to read a book from a library without paying the owner a dime, but absolutely unforgivable and illegal to do the exact same thing to a videogame? What is the difference?
[QUOTE=Balistics_Dummy;38269865]The one thing I always associate piracy with is the library. The library buys a 'book' once and shares it for free with anyone who wants it. The people who 'read' the book never buy it because it wasn't worth any of their money, or, they do buy it because the book IS worth their money. People who 'read' and never buy are doing everything 100% legally (vandalism and whatnot excluded). So my question is why is it perfectly, ABSOLUTELY, 100% legally acceptable to read a book from a library without paying the owner a dime, but absolutely unforgivable and illegal to do the exact same thing to a videogame? What is the difference?[/QUOTE]
The book is purchased by the library to begin with, and there is always only one copy. It can be passed from person to person, but cannot be duplicated.
Similarly, you can give your copy of a game to your friend, and that's legal, but if you make a duplicate of the game and distribute that, it's illegal. The key here is that you're not duplicating the work, because only the original copyright holder has the legal right to do that. There's nothing preventing transfer of ownership. You're conflating two separate issues.
[QUOTE=Phaesol;38265659]But try taking that candy bar thing of yours, and turning it into something more expensive. Candy bars are small time, an impulse buy if you will. But as stuff starts to get more expensive, people always want to try it on. You can usually try stuff on at a clothing store, test drive cars, try out consoles at gamestop, try out an iPod at an apple store or a laptop at electronic store.[/QUOTE]
They're still not entitled to these things, no matter how much they want them. I had fun playing the Wii U at GameStop yesterday, I do not automatically get one because I want it.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;38267880]The pirating itself isn't theft. If I download a game and then delete it without even installing it, does anyone loose anything? A lost sale due to piracy is theft. I.e. pirating the game, playing it and not paying for it. You can't compare piracy to real life theft because in real life the original is lost, which in turn makes the person who you stole from loose the amount of cash the thing you've stole was worth. It doesn't happen in piracy. If I download something and then delete it, nobody looses 50$. They only loose it if I otherwise would buy the game. Is downloading something that's unavailable legally a theft? No, they wouldn't get the money anyway.[/QUOTE]
I keep hearing about people downloading games they would otherwise not buy, and the only reason this argument exists is [i]because piracy is so common.[/i] You rarely hear this in regards to console games because of the amount of work it takes to make your console take stolen games. If you're going to play a game, do it on a paid-for copy. What makes you entitled to these games?
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;38267880]And I have played a demo or a pirated version of almost every game that I've bought. And mind you my steam account alone is worth $865.46.[/QUOTE]
When every game on Steam has a price in the single digits around Christmas your account's value doesn't validate your point.
[editline]31st October 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Balistics_Dummy;38269865]The one thing I always associate piracy with is the library. The library buys a 'book' once and shares it for free with anyone who wants it. The people who 'read' the book never buy it because it wasn't worth any of their money, or, they do buy it because the book IS worth their money. People who 'read' and never buy are doing everything 100% legally (vandalism and whatnot excluded). So my question is why is it perfectly, ABSOLUTELY, 100% legally acceptable to read a book from a library without paying the owner a dime, but absolutely unforgivable and illegal to do the exact same thing to a videogame? What is the difference?[/QUOTE]
That book has been paid for.
[QUOTE=Balistics_Dummy;38269865]The one thing I always associate piracy with is the library. The library buys a 'book' once and shares it for free with anyone who wants it. The people who 'read' the book never buy it because it wasn't worth any of their money, or, they do buy it because the book IS worth their money. People who 'read' and never buy are doing everything 100% legally (vandalism and whatnot excluded). So my question is why is it perfectly, ABSOLUTELY, 100% legally acceptable to read a book from a library without paying the owner a dime, but absolutely unforgivable and illegal to do the exact same thing to a videogame? What is the difference?[/QUOTE]
From what I assume, libraries have permission to lend out things. You, however, do not have permission to distribute a game even if you have bought a copy.
So far as I am concerned, my hard drive is my property, so any imperious twat who tells me how I may or may not arrange the NAND gates or what-not inside of there can go pound sand. The same argument holds for ink upon paper, notches upon CD-ROMs, &c. In other words, there is no such thing as 'intellectual property', rendering the matter of piracy [I]nullius[/I].
[QUOTE=Fenrisulfr;38270747]So far as I am concerned, my hard drive is my property, so any imperious twat who tells me how I may or may not arrange the NAND gates or what-not inside of there can go pound sand. The same argument holds for ink upon paper, notches upon CD-ROMs, &c. In other words, there is no such thing as 'intellectual property', rendering the matter of piracy [I]nullius[/I].[/QUOTE]
So does that make it okay to download something like child pornography? I mean, it [i]is[/i] your hard drive, right? Since your house is your property (or your parents, depending on your age), you're free to murder people in it, too.
[QUOTE=Agoat;38270814]So does that make it okay to download something like child pornography? I mean, it [i]is[/i] your hard drive, right? Since your house is your property (or your parents, depending on your age), you're free to murder people in it, too.[/QUOTE]
Yes to downloading the child porn, and assuming I was foolish enough to own a house, it would not be right to murder someone there because one's body is also one's property, with the exception if the one slain initiated force, in which case he should not have put his foolish self onto the property to start trouble.
[QUOTE=Fenrisulfr;38270858]Yes to downloading the child porn, and assuming I was foolish enough to own a house, it would not be right to murder someone there because one's body is also one's property, with the exception if the one slain initiated force, in which case he should not have put his foolish self onto the property to start trouble.[/QUOTE]
Right, that's someone else's property on your hard drive. You didn't pay for it.
Child pornography is not okay, by the way.
[QUOTE=Agoat;38270884]Right, that's someone else's property on your hard drive. You didn't pay for it.
Child pornography is not okay, by the way.[/QUOTE]
My hard drive is [I]my [/I]property, including the composite NAND gates (for SSDs). Unless someone physically put his property on top of my hard drive, and as I am using a laptop, this is highly unlikely, what is on there is mine and mine alone. About twenty companies may beg to differ, but it is I who is addressing this matter, not they.
I did not sanction the manufacture of child porn, only the act of distributing the files, so I resent the above juxtaposition.
[QUOTE=Fenrisulfr;38270923]My hard drive is [I]my [/I]property, including the composite NAND gates (for SSDs). Unless someone physically put his property on top of my hard drive, and as I am using a laptop, this is highly unlikely, what is on there is mine and mine alone. About twenty companies may beg to differ, but it is I who is addressing this matter, not they.[/QUOTE]
You may feel it's okay to steal these things because of arbitrary technicalities, but to people that create this content, it's obviously not. Media that takes time and effort to create, that you don't feel the need to pay for. Many of these people need this money to survive, especially the gaming and movie industries. You're even downloading the files from the internet, so it's not as if the files were there in the first place. Your argument would be great for a discussion on modding games, but for stealing them it doesn't fit.
[QUOTE=Agoat;38270984]You may feel it's okay to steal these things because of arbitrary technicalities, but to people that create this content, it's obviously not. Media that takes time and effort to create, that you don't feel the need to pay for. Many of these people need this money to survive, especially the gaming and movie industries.[/QUOTE]
I cannot be held responsible for bad business decisions. Stephan Kinsella spoke about the subject from an anarcho-capitalist perspective; it was rather interesting.
[QUOTE] You're even downloading the files from the internet, so it's not as if the files were there in the first place. Your argument would be great for a discussion on modding games, but for stealing them it doesn't fit.[/QUOTE]
Give that many games and films are distributed digitally, that is not necessarily the case. The data was transmitted from whatever medium to my hard drive i.e. my property, so how I manipulate said data within my property, including transmission to consenting parties, is legitimate.
Furthermore, I resent the use of the verbiage 'stealing': the property was not stolen; rather, it was [I]copied[/I].
[QUOTE=Fenrisulfr;38271044]I cannot be held responsible for bad business decisions. Stephan Kinsella spoke about the subject from an anarcho-capitalist perspective; it was rather interesting.[/QUOTE]
Right, your theft is their bad business decision. (No, it isn't.)
[QUOTE=Fenrisulfr;38271044]Give that many games and films are distributed digitally, that is not necessarily the case. The data was transmitted from whatever medium to my hard drive i.e. my property, so how I manipulate said data within my property, including transmission to consenting parties, is legitimate.[/QUOTE]
Of course there's no force stopping you from doing these things (aside from lawsuits), but ultimately you're making excuses for entitlement. I don't understand how you can think that owning a physical way to store data makes you entitled to every bit of digital media.
[QUOTE=Agoat;38271103]
Of course there's no force stopping you from doing these things (aside from lawsuits), but ultimately you're making excuses for entitlement. I don't understand how you can think that owning a physical way to store data makes you entitled to every bit of digital media.[/QUOTE]
I will make one further reply to you and one only, so please read closely:
I have a copy machine, toner, and paper. I borrow from someone else one a $300 textbook and proceed to copy a portion. The machine scans a page, and with my ink, prints a facsimile upon my paper. The paper with dried ink upon it i.e. the copy is my property, notwithstanding any dubious claim of 'intellectual property' by said publisher, who can go pound sand.
So yes: owning the method of storing data indeed makes me entitled to anything I can store in or upon it through alteration of said storage medium.
[QUOTE=Fenrisulfr;38271148]I will make one further reply to you and one only, so please read closely:[/quote]
I'll get my glasses.
[QUOTE=Fenrisulfr;38271148]I have a copy machine, toner, and paper. I borrow from someone else one a $300 textbook and proceed to copy a portion. The machine scans a page, and with my ink, prints a facsimile upon my paper. The facsimile is my property, notwithstanding any dubious claim of 'intellectual property' by said publisher, who can go pound sand. [/QUOTE]
Your argument is based entirely on you not believing in intellectual property. When everyone else, creators of said media included, believe in intellectual property and don't want you to steal their stuff, your point of view starts to look petty. Just because you don't subscribe to an idea doesn't mean your actions aren't hurting others. Of course, you're not even going to continue the conversation, so I'm wasting my time.
The only people who don't believe in intellectual property are those with none of their own. This isn't a slight or some witty, snarky comment. Once you have an idea or intangible asset that you want to protect then you'll change your views.
The ideas in a textbook are worth much more than then paper and ink used to write them.
[editline]1st November 2012[/editline]
It's like stealing someone's artwork and claiming you drew it. The most you could be charged of is petty theft and that's only if you didn't take it digitally.
I don't get how people justify piracy
I pirate stuff, sometimes because I simply can't afford it, sometimes (and this is normally music) because I can't find it anywhere, and mostly just because I can. That don't make it right.
At the end of the day, I and everyone else who pirates games, movies, music and whatever else are still stealing. Why try to justify that you stole? Just sit back and enjoy the fact you paid nothing for it.
That's my view on piracy at least, I don't see much point in defending why I do it, other than because I can. I got no qualms with it, and nothing anybody can say to me is going to change my mind. That said I wouldn't like my shit being pirated, so I guess I'm a hypocrite. Oh well, I guess that's how the world works, I'm sure if I made something I would probably stop doing it, but I'm never going to make anything so I must be okay then
[QUOTE=Agoat;38270163]I keep hearing about people downloading games they would otherwise not buy, and the only reason this argument exists is [I]because piracy is so common.[/I] You rarely hear this in regards to console games because of the amount of work it takes to make your console take stolen games. If you're going to play a game, do it on a paid-for copy. [/QUOTE]
You are missing the point entirely. It's only theft if it's a lost sale. The original doesn't disappear. Nobody is loosing money if I download something, they lose money when they lose a customer. Who the fuck is loosing money if I download something that isn't available to buy where I live?
[QUOTE=Agoat;38270163]What makes you entitled to these games?[/QUOTE]
I never said I am. You had this argument few times I see and now you're just seeing what you want to see.
[QUOTE=Agoat;38270163]When every game on Steam has a price in the single digits around Christmas your account's value doesn't validate your point.[/QUOTE]
The point is "I have a lot of legit games". And if you want me to take you seriously don't try make a point that I have bought all my games on sales.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
