I don't believe piracy can be justified at all. Game has no demo? Look at reviews of the game and some gameplay on YouTube.
Too expensive? A game is a want, not a need. Just because you can't afford it doesn't mean you have to disadvantage the people who developed the game.
Strict DRM? You don't necessarily agree with the business model of the game's publisher? Well hey, nothing can say more than not even playing the game at all. If the publisher knows that people will still play the game, it may make the publisher consider more-strict DRM solutions, may even drive the publisher away from the PC platform.
I pirate games to try them, and I actually buy them if they're good. I only do this with expensive new games though, I won't bother trying a game that's 5€ on Steam.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;36732814]Am I the only one who calls bullshit when someone says "most pirates pirate games [I]just[/I] to try them out?"
It's untrue. Why would a pirate feel the need to buy a game that's already sitting on their harddrive, ready to play with no DRM?[/QUOTE]
Because I want to pay the devs for their work if I enjoy it. And I usually have enough money to buy all the games I want, because they're either cheap or on sale (it's not like there are lots of full price new games worth playing) so I don't have any reason to play them for free.
There are four types of pirates.
1. Those who can buy it and want it but pirate it anyway because they don't want to spend money. A lost sale for the company. Idiots assume that all pirates all like that.
2. Those who pirate the game to try it, see if they like it and then either get rid of it or buy the original (I've done this multiple times). Lost sales for the company because false advertisement won't work on those people.
3. Those who pirate because there are no original available in the place they live. Self explanatory. No lost sales.
4. Pirated version is better than the retail. For instance it doesn't have bullshit DRM or other crap like that. Lost sales and for a good reason.
[editline]12th July 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Antdawg;36734075]I don't believe piracy can be justified at all. Game has no demo? Look at reviews of the game and some gameplay on YouTube.[/QUOTE]
Like IGN? You can't fucking know whether you will like a game or not because of a gameplay video or a review by someone else.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;36734075]Strict DRM? You don't necessarily agree with the business model of the game's publisher? Well hey, nothing can say more than not even playing the game at all. If the publisher knows that people will still play the game, it may make the publisher consider more-strict DRM solutions, may even drive the publisher away from the PC platform.[/QUOTE]
How about it says "the game is good, everything around it is bullshit and I'm not going to put up with it". People are not going to strip themselves of something they were waiting for just to make a point.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;36734097]There are four types of pirates.
1. Those who can buy it and want it but pirate it anyway because they don't want to spend money. A lost sale for the company. Idiots assume that all pirates all like that.
2. Those who pirate the game to try it, see if they like it and then either get rid of it or buy the original (I've done this multiple times). Lost sales for the company because false advertisement won't work on those people.
3. Those who pirate because there are no original available in the place they live. Self explanatory. No lost sales.
4. Pirated version is better than the retail. For instance it doesn't have bullshit DRM or other crap like that. Lost sales and for a good reason.
[editline]12th July 2012[/editline]
Like IGN? You can't fucking know whether you will like a game or not because of a gameplay video or a review by someone else.
How about it says "the game is good, everything around it is bullshit and I'm not going to put up with it". People are not going to strip themselves of something they were waiting for just to make a point.[/QUOTE]
And then there's me. Those who pirates because they would not to be able to afford the game anyhow.
[QUOTE=The First 11'er;36734129]And then there's me. Those who pirates because they would not to be able to afford the game anyhow.[/QUOTE]
You fall into #1. You don't want to spend the money on games. It's want not need.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;36734139]You fall into #1. You don't want to spend the money on games. It's want not need.[/QUOTE]
No, I don't. I can't spend any money whatsoever and the only source of entertainment I can afford has to be free.
[QUOTE=The First 11'er;36734171]No, I don't. I can't spend any money whatsoever and the only source of entertainment I can afford has to be free.[/QUOTE]
You don't need the game. It's not like you have to pirate it. You want the game but you're not going to pay for it.
[QUOTE=The First 11'er;36734171]I can't spend any money whatsoever[/QUOTE]
Not to start an argument but
"The First 11'er boostard Gold Membership for The First 11'er"
How can you come into a thread and say that and expect anyone to believe you. Silly Sil is right you fit into category 1.
Pirate a game to play it unless it's an indie dev like the guys who made Endless Space.
I've bought 90% of the games I've pirated when they've been reduced in price.
[QUOTE=E7Fan;36734231]Not to start an argument but
"The First 11'er boostard Gold Membership for The First 11'er"
How can you come into a thread and say that and expect anyone to believe you. Silly Sil is right you fit into category 1.[/QUOTE]
because that was a long time ago when i was at my aunts and i was given money for doing work for her
she's the only person i get money from in this family
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;36734188]You don't need the game. It's not like you have to pirate it. You want the game but you're not going to pay for it.[/QUOTE]
You don't NEED a house. You don't NEED social contact with other human beings. You don't NEED a form of entertainment. I'm not trying to compare needing a house to needing a game, but you don't need most things in life. Hell, games might be the only thing keeping him from the brink of insanity. Piracy is not right however, and will never be right. It's illegal as it should be.
[QUOTE=Eeshton;36734440]You don't NEED a house. You don't NEED social contact with other human beings. [/QUOTE]
[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs"]Actually...[/URL]
[QUOTE=Eeshton;36734440]You don't NEED a form of entertainment.[/QUOTE]
You don't need A VIDEO GAME to entertain yourself.
[QUOTE=Eeshton;36734440]I'm not trying to compare needing a house to needing a game, but you don't need most things in life. Hell, games might be the only thing keeping him from the brink of insanity. [/QUOTE]
Wow two strawmans in one point.
When you "need" means want something then you buy it. If you want a video game and you get it without paying for it, it's just like stealing. It's a lost sale.
[QUOTE=Eeshton;36734440]Piracy is not right however, and will never be right. It's illegal as it should be.[/QUOTE]
Trying to make a game appealing while it's not is wrong too. I can pirate a game and check it whether or not I want to spend my money on it and there is nothing wrong with it.
[QUOTE=Eeshton;36734440]You don't NEED a house. You don't NEED social contact with other human beings. You don't NEED a form of entertainment. I'm not trying to compare needing a house to needing a game, but you don't need most things in life. Hell, games might be the only thing keeping him from the brink of insanity. Piracy is not right however, and will never be right. It's illegal as it should be.[/QUOTE]
Except you're not the person who tells people what they need.
I [I]need[/I] music in my life. That's a fact for me regardless of your sentiment.
[QUOTE=Eeshton;36734440]You don't NEED social contact with other human beings.[/QUOTE]
This is one of the saddest things I have read on these forums.
I'll admit that I do pirate but it is usually expressly for the purpose of trying it out, other times it's a really old game that is no longer sold. Yes, demos can give you an idea of what the game is like but sometimes it does very little to tell you about the actual game. That was the case with one of my most recent purchases, Medieval II: Total War. The demo was incredibly limited, only giving you access to a tutorial and a few historical battles which is a [i]very[/i] small part of the actual game. Especially considering it didn't involve any part of what you would actually spend most of your time doing unless you're a maniacal warlord.
If I had just stuck to the demo and based my opinion on that, I would never have bought the game. Instead I pirated it, tried out what it had to offer, purchased it and now it's one of my favourite games.
[QUOTE=All0utWar;36723712]I never pirate games, I like to see that I own it and that I can use all of the features of it. Now, if it's software that's way to expensive for me, (Sony Vegas) then of course I'd pirate that.[/QUOTE]
This.
I'd justify pirating it just to try it out, but I prefer to have the game for example on Steam so I can access it anytime I want. I know you don't really "own" it since its not a physical copy, but you know, close enough.
I'd rather it be like this for portability issues aswell.
I pirate pretty much everything except for the rare good game or when there is a steam sale on, even then if it's more than about £10 I'd usually not bother.
Really it's not worth the effort buying most games, many have annoying DRM which really gets on my nerves (I make exception for steam) and frankly most games these days are hardly worth playing, indie games however I do support since those often are more interesting to play than the usual junk publishers like EA spit out.
Piracy for me is not just a way to get stuff for free, it's also a way to say fuck you to the developers and publisher who consistently spew out second rate games laden with restrictive DRM and the same old boring gameplay mechanics, maybe if they actually made good games I'd be less inclined to pirate them.
Depends a whole lot on the game really. Some I'll buy without a single look back, others I'll be more reticent about and will need to try them beforehand. If a game I'm doubtful about doesn't have a demo then I might as well make one myself.
[editline]12th July 2012[/editline]
Games are extremely expensive in France too. Titles are usually 70€ on console and 50€ on PC (respectively 86 and 61 USD), and most retailers even tend to make most waited games on PC 60 instead of 50 ($73) to cash in even more.
If I'm not going to be given a demo, I'm not gonna buy a game I'm unsure about without trying it at first. If I can avoid piracy I will though, as it takes a lot of time and it's often a pain in the ass to run pirated games.
I don't pirate games, but software is open game to me because I don't have thousands of dollars.
Even then I take advantage of things like the students.autodesk.com free software stuff.
[QUOTE=Chryseus;36735169]I pirate pretty much everything except for the rare good game or when there is a steam sale on, even then if it's more than about £10 I'd usually not bother.
Really it's not worth the effort buying most games, many have annoying DRM which really gets on my nerves (I make exception for steam) and frankly most games these days are hardly worth playing, indie games however I do support since those often are more interesting to play than the usual junk publishers like EA spit out.
Piracy for me is not just a way to get stuff for free, it's also a way to say fuck you to the developers and publisher who consistently spew out second rate games laden with restrictive DRM and the same old boring gameplay mechanics, maybe if they actually made good games I'd be less inclined to pirate them.[/QUOTE]
A better thing to do would be not pirate them or buy them, if the game is shit why are you going through so much effort to bypass drm and pirate it?
I'm pirating bullshit games just to burn me some time. The actual good ones are the ones I invest money, like Valve and so on.
I don't pirate games anymore, I didn't have any justification for doing so, I simply didn't care. I still don't care.
Pirating games is always a major grey area. If you simply want to play a game and have no intention of paying for it, there's no safe haven for you, you're being shit and it is an honest lost sale. Want to play it AND would gladly pay for it, but you can't afford it? You SHOULD wait until you can afford it, and find something else to pass your time — in this case, piracy is the result of weak willpower.
If you're doing so to try it out, then you [i]need[/i] to stay true to your word and only play as little as possible in order to try it out, otherwise you're using a bullshit excuse. And then, if it's because there's no legal way to get the game digitally (which can apply for some older games), then it's not really a lost sale in the first place.
Circumventing DRM is a much larger deal in itself, but it is indefinitely better to circumvent the DRM of a game that you've already purchased legally, than it is to simply download a cracked version (and thereby a lost sale).
Piracy in music and films are worth considering too, especially while the entertainment industry is so slow in adapting to digital distribution. There's so many films and shows out there that have yet to find their way onto iTunes and other services, that sometimes piracy really is the only viable option — save for going out of your way to physically rent a DVD. (how many people do that anymore?)
You shouldn't be trying to justify piracy at all. Anyone who does is an imbecile. Entertainment is an luxury, not an necessity, you do not need it, but it is nice to have. That doesn't give you an inherent right to just take it, copy it, or steal it.
People who pirate a game because they just don't want to buy games are the worst, you are giving publishers the view that piracy is killing the industry, without them actually receiving any money from their work at all. Obviously they are going to fight back against this.
People who pirate to "try a game" and to "see if a developer deserves my money" are equally as bad. Again, you are contributing to the statistics that publishers use to decide if they need to up their DRM, and are causing people who aren't shitlords to suffer. Even if you buy it in the end you are still contributing to the problem, so stop.
People who pirate a game to get around DRM (either they purchased the game already or are using the crack to workaround a installed game) aren't as bad, but again, you are contributing to the problem by downloading cracks and pirated copies of the game anyway.
Rather than pirating your games, don't buy the fucking things. You aren't entitled to the game, and if you aren't sure you will enjoy the game, or can't afford the game at the time, you just don't buy it. Pirating the game will just make it worse for people who want to reward the developers or just buy the games anyway. Look up reviews, a small play through of the early levels, anything to try and help you decide if the game is worth your money. Just don't pirate the damn things. It makes it much worse for us, the paying customers. If you don't agree with the distribution method, the DRM, the content (or lack thereof), the publisher or developer. Just don't buy the damn game, but don't pirate the fucking thing either. It's a much bigger problem that pro-piracy people will make it out to be, but it isn't "industry killing" like a publisher will tell you. Instead it just fucks over everyone else more as time goes on.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;36736199]You shouldn't be trying to justify piracy at all. Anyone who does is an imbecile.[/QUOTE]
Well, that sort of sentiment sure works great in the Mass Debate forum.
[QUOTE=Bean Shoot;36736243]Well, that sort of sentiment sure works great in the Mass Debate forum.[/QUOTE]
If the world were to accept piracy as the norm, then say goodbye to your 200million dollar blockbusters forever.
[QUOTE=Bean Shoot;36736243]Well, that sort of sentiment sure works great in the Mass Debate forum.[/QUOTE]
It does, doesn't it? It's my opinion on the matter and can be debated over. I think you shouldn't be trying to justify it, so your part in the debate is to show me why we should be able to justify it.
If you can. Going by your post, I don't think you can.
Piracy really isnt a problem.
If somebody pirates a game and he likes it, he might buy it.
AND even if he doesnt, if he likes it, he might show the game to ALL HIS FRIENDS.
Profit.
[QUOTE=Str4fe;36736350]Piracy really isnt a problem.
If somebody pirates a game and he likes it, he might buy it.
AND even if he doesnt, if he likes it, he might show the game to ALL HIS FRIENDS.
Profit.[/QUOTE]
Ooooorrrrr. He won't buy it, as he will probably just finish the cracked copy. And his friends will probably pirate it to, seeing as he did they are likely to.
People who pirate don't tend to be moral paragons who understand that developers suffer from piracy, they don't give a shit, to them a game is just something that costs money. Where the money goes? They don't care. So if they get it for free, it's a win-win right?
Plus if you'd read my post you'd see even more reason not to pirate. The publishers will use the piracy numbers to decide how much to increase their DRM by, they don't subtract sales from piracy, they don't account for people who pirate to try it. They just use the raw numbers they find. Pirating in any way shape or form just makes it worse for everybody.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;36736395]Ooooorrrrr. He won't buy it, as he will probably just finish the cracked copy. And his friends will probably pirate it to, seeing as he did they are likely to.
People who pirate don't tend to be moral paragons who understand that developers suffer from piracy, they don't give a shit, to them a game is just something that costs money. Where the money goes? They don't care. So if they get it for free, it's a win-win right?
Plus if you'd read my post you'd see even more reason not to pirate. The publishers will use the piracy numbers to decide how much to increase their DRM by, they don't subtract sales from piracy, they don't account for people who pirate to try it. They just use the raw numbers they find. Pirating in any way shape or form just makes it worse for everybody.[/QUOTE]
Piracy is going to happen regardless of what they do and it's just going to increase, if they had any sense they would adjust their business models, people don't want to spend £20-30 on half finished games and then be told they can't copy it or they have to be online all the time to play.
Saying piracy is bad is not going to change anything, people pirate because they can and that is never going to change, increased use of DRM is only going to make more people turn to piracy.
I agree with you that attempting to justify piracy is pointless, it's illegal and morally wrong, still I'd rather be a criminal than spend my hard earned cash on entertainment.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;36736395]Ooooorrrrr. He won't buy it, as he will probably just finish the cracked copy. And his friends will probably pirate it to, seeing as he did they are likely to.
People who pirate don't tend to be moral paragons who understand that developers suffer from piracy, they don't give a shit, to them a game is just something that costs money. Where the money goes? They don't care. So if they get it for free, it's a win-win right?
Plus if you'd read my post you'd see even more reason not to pirate. The publishers will use the piracy numbers to decide how much to increase their DRM by, they don't subtract sales from piracy, they don't account for people who pirate to try it. They just use the raw numbers they find. Pirating in any way shape or form just makes it worse for everybody.[/QUOTE]
theres one last case where the consumer is limited to 400$ per year for internet shoppings due to country laws so the most likely option to use is pirate even if the consumer doesnt want to
not that i pirate games i buy them from time to time
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