[QUOTE=Chryseus;36736740]Piracy is going to happen regardless of what they do and it's just going to increase, if they had any sense they would adjust their business models, people don't want to spend £20-30 on half finished games and then be told they can't copy it or they have to be online all the time to play.
Saying piracy is bad is not going to change anything, people pirate because they can and that is never going to change, [B]increased use of DRM is only going to make more people turn to piracy.[/B]
I agree with you that attempting to justify piracy is pointless, it's illegal and morally wrong, still I'd rather be a criminal than spend my hard earned cash on entertainment.[/QUOTE]
DRM use increased as piracy became more prevalent, not the other way around. Think back to the late 90's, early 00's, piracy wasn't quite as simple, DRM was little to none in terms of existence. As the everyman started to understand how to torrent thanks to simpler tools, piracy has increase, and DRM has increased to match it. If one stops the other drops, neither are bound to stop any time soon though.
The games people claim are "half finished" are rarely that under developed. It's usually where publishers are forcing developers to develop faster or are giving them less funding due to poor sales (again, piracy numbers aren't taken into account for sales, so a poor launch could have a lot of piracy, but that isn't what they want to see).
I also see some entitlement in there "I'd rather be a criminal than spend my hard earned cash on entertainment". Wow, that is, uhh, quite something. That's a spectacular level of entitlement. You should really think about what you just said. You'd rather a developer didn't get your money for their work, just so you can enjoy it, even if that makes you a criminal? Do you not see how stupendously retarded that logic is?
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;36732852]I'll be honest here, I got a cracked copy of Crysis 2 last year to try it out and ended up beating the game. I thought "Wow, that was a fun game. I want to buy it." But after I said that... I realized I wasn't interested in the shallow multiplayer at all, and had already finished singleplayer on the hardest difficulty. There was zero incentive for me to buy the game I had already milked dry.
I'm sorry guys, but you can't just play a shit ton of games, then decide who deserved your money after you've played the life out of them. The fact that they push obtrusive DRM on their games is entirely your fault, and is not an excuse for your lack of self control and maturity.
Don't like the business practices of the publisher or their DRM? Boycott it. Don't download it. If you pirate it, you still tried out their little game. They win.[/QUOTE]
You're now implying that every pirate is like you.
I've bought games again just to have them on Steam even though I've already purchased them legally on discs. I've purchased games from GoG that I already own and have played them a million times before, I just want to support the game and it's concept.
You've finished the game and you enjoyed it, you decide you'll purchase it to support the developers for making a great game that you want more of.
Hell, when I bought Deus Ex - Human Revolution from a keysite for dirt cheap I was sad because I had spent so little on such a magnificent game, so obviously I purchased DLC as well just to chip in for the developers. (although the good thing about keysites is that the developers get as much anyways because all extra price goes to the publishers anyways. But you know, it's the feeling of having paid too little for too much)
If the money I was spending:
1. Is for a DRM free game of decent quality that won't be abandoned soon after release
2. Goes directly to the developers
3. Is reasonably priced
I would be happy to buy, and I have bought various games by indie developers.
As for entitlement, well everyone feels entitled to something, you can't just tell people not to be greedy it's human nature.
- snip -
I pirate games from developers I don't trust.
If everything goes fine, then I'll buy the game. I'm thankful for my apparently evil company killing beliefs, as it saved me from that shitstorm that was From Dust.
I do pirate sometimes. I know I shouldn't really and so I don't pirate every game I have a passing interest in and exclusively play pirated games, I do try to buy games when I can, and the recent F2P craze has really helped me out there.
That said, I have pirated some games simply because I wasn't going to buy them. I pirated AC: Revelations because although I was interested to see how things went after Brotherhood, I wasn't bothered enough to spend my money on it. There's no justification for it really and I know that it's a negative thing, but sometimes I cave.
Also I've pirated Fallout 3 and Oblivion myriad times, but only because I've already bought them. I got them both on the 360 and when I decided to get them on the PC, I pirated them. Not a lost sale because I already paid for it, you know?
Just my two cents.
For me, If i pirate a game and I dont like it, I just delete it and never buy it.
If I really like it then I usually take it off my computer and buy the game.
I hate having .isos of pirated games, they take up a shitload of space, then if you delete them you gotta torrent that shit again, its a hassle.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;36736199]You shouldn't be trying to justify piracy at all. Anyone who does is an imbecile. Entertainment is an luxury, not an necessity, you do not need it, but it is nice to have. That doesn't give you an inherent right to just take it, copy it, or steal it.[/QUOTE]
Why are you making it look like every pirate wants to play the game but doesn't want to pay for it? You even said later in your post that people pirate to try or for other reasons so why are you making it look like that?
[QUOTE=hexpunK;36736199]People who pirate a game because they just don't want to buy games are the worst, you are giving publishers the view that piracy is killing the industry, without them actually receiving any money from their work at all. Obviously they are going to fight back against this.[/QUOTE]
There are people who'll download things and not pay for them. It's not going to change. DRM is not always the answer but companies don't understand it yet.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;36736199]People who pirate to "try a game" and to "see if a developer deserves my money" are equally as bad. Again, you are contributing to the statistics that publishers use to decide if they need to up their DRM, and are causing people who aren't shitlords to suffer. Even if you buy it in the end you are still contributing to the problem, so stop.[/QUOTE]
No. I'm not going to pay 60$ to try a game only to find it that it sucks and was falsely advertised. Fuck that. And the pirating comes from lack of demos. Maybe that's the problem here and something you should talk about? Not everyone can afford spending money on things that they will throw away after 2 hours.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;36736199]People who pirate a game to get around DRM (either they purchased the game already or are using the crack to workaround a installed game) aren't as bad, but again, you are contributing to the problem by downloading cracks and pirated copies of the game anyway.
[/QUOTE]
They are not contributing to the problem. The morons adding strict DRM are. While protection works against stealing in real world it doesn't work that well in digital world. Most of them don't understand it yet. DRM is a part of the problem and one more reason to pirate a game.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;36736199]
Rather than pirating your games, don't buy the fucking things. You aren't entitled to the game, and if you aren't sure you will enjoy the game, or can't afford the game at the time, you just don't buy it.[/QUOTE]
Fuck you? I'm not going to strip myself of something I was waiting for for a long time to make a point that this kind of DRM/whatever is bad. This is what I'm going to do by pirating it. If the pirated version is better than the retail, people will get the pirated version. Simple as that.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;36736199]
Pirating the game will just make it worse for people who want to reward the developers or just buy the games anyway. Look up reviews, a small play through of the early levels, anything to try and help you decide if the game is worth your money.[/QUOTE]
Like IGN? You can't tell whether you will like something or not by what someone else said. He's not you. I'm not going to buy games to try them, not everyone can afford buying things to try them. Maybe you buy 3 cars, choose the one you like and throw the other two away but not everyone can do it. Add demos if you don't want me to pirate it for trying out.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;36736199] Just don't pirate the damn things. It makes it much worse for us, the paying customers. If you don't agree with the distribution method, the DRM, the content (or lack thereof), the publisher or developer. Just don't buy the damn game, but don't pirate the fucking thing either. It's a much bigger problem that pro-piracy people will make it out to be, but it isn't "industry killing" like a publisher will tell you. Instead it just fucks over everyone else more as time goes on.[/QUOTE]
How about figure out that the DRM is increasing the piracy instead of decreasing it and let people try out the game before they pay for it. That's the solution here. Pirating is a result of a problem not the problem itself. Of course excluding assholes who just pirate the game because they don't want to spend money on it. But they will always exist. You can't change that.
[QUOTE=_jesterk;36733494]Except torrenting isn't stealing.
And I fail to see how pirating a game apparently means you have a lack of maturity and self control.[/QUOTE]
I never said anything about torrenting in particular, but actually, yes, if you use torrents to pirate material it is stealing. And I also never mentioned maturity or self control, but now that you bring it up, it actually does kind of show that you lack self control if you have to steal games and then justify it.
I have been severely affected by piracy (loss of more than half my profits with very high certainty), but morally I feel like I've earned the right to at the very least 'try before I buy'.
No doubt the total value of anything I've pirated is a lot less than the £5000+ I've lost.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;36734097]There are four types of pirates.
1. Those who can buy it and want it but pirate it anyway because they don't want to spend money. A lost sale for the company. Idiots assume that all pirates all like that.[/quote]
You don't have to call people idiots because they make an obvious assumption.
[quote]2. Those who pirate the game to try it, see if they like it and then either get rid of it or buy the original (I've done this multiple times). Lost sales for the company because false advertisement won't work on those people.[/quote]
Can you provide any proof besides anecdotal evidence that supports this claim? Otherwise, I'll just assume that you are the only one who does this. And it's not actually justified anyway.
[quote]3. Those who pirate because there are no original available in the place they live. Self explanatory. No lost sales.[/quote]
This is actually sort of justified, but only if you expend all other options to obtain the game legally before stealing it.
[quote]4. Pirated version is better than the retail. For instance it doesn't have bullshit DRM or other crap like that. Lost sales and for a good reason.[/quote]
This is not excuse. If you don't like the product, then don't buy it.
[quote]Like IGN? You can't fucking know whether you will like a game or not because of a gameplay video or a review by someone else.[/quote]
Actually reviews and gameplay videos are an excellent way of finding out whether a game will be good or not. They work for every other product in the consumer world. I don't understand how you think they aren't.
[quote]How about it says "the game is good, everything around it is bullshit and I'm not going to put up with it". People are not going to strip themselves of something they were waiting for just to make a point.[/QUOTE]
What better way to protest than not playing the game at all? You are supporting the DRM by playing the game.
[editline]12th July 2012[/editline]
Reading this thread has made me sick to my stomach. A lot of you are very shallow criminals who have justified their crimes using logical fallacies and blatant lies. I'm at least glad that you're able to live with yourselves in your little fantasy world where you can steal anything that's too expensive.
[editline]12th July 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;36738502]Why are you making it look like every pirate wants to play the game but doesn't want to pay for it? You even said later in your post that people pirate to try or for other reasons so why are you making it look like that?[/quote]
Can you give some sort of evidence to support this claim?
[quote]There are people who'll download things and not pay for them. It's not going to change. DRM is not always the answer but companies don't understand it yet.[/quote]
I don't see how that matters. Businesses can make their products however they want. You can complain about it and talk about how bad it is and it may be really bad, but it's still a company's product.
[quote]No. I'm not going to pay 60$ to try a game only to find it that it sucks and was falsely advertised. Fuck that. And the pirating comes from lack of demos. Maybe that's the problem here and something you should talk about? Not everyone can afford spending money on things that they will throw away after 2 hours.[/quote]
Why don't you return a game if you don't like it? Get a receipt.
[quote]They are not contributing to the problem. The morons adding strict DRM are. While protection works against stealing in real world it doesn't work that well in digital world. Most of them don't understand it yet. DRM is a part of the problem and one more reason to pirate a game.[/quote]
Se above. And can you give some examples of this so called "DRM"? I've only ever heard of three or maybe four cases of it actually doing anything seriously wrong, but you're acting like every single game has some sort of "intrusive DRM" and that means you have to steal the game.
[quote]Fuck you? I'm not going to strip myself of something I was waiting for for a long time to make a point that this kind of DRM/whatever is bad. This is what I'm going to do by pirating it. If the pirated version is better than the retail, people will get the pirated version. Simple as that.[/quote]
But you don't have to buy it because IT'S A GAME! A GAME! It's a stupid device that you use to make yourself laugh or be excited! It's not like it's food or a house. You don't have to buy it! I thought you were saying this to someone else in this thread?
[quote]Like IGN? You can't tell whether you will like something or not by what someone else said. He's not you. I'm not going to buy games to try them, not everyone can afford buying things to try them. Maybe you buy 3 cars, choose the one you like and throw the other two away but not everyone can do it. Add demos if you don't want me to pirate it for trying out.[/quote]
When has a game reviewer ever made outright lies or false claims that has tricked someone into buying a bad game? And let's just pretend that all game reviews are unreliable. Then look at online videos of it, like walkthroughs or let's play videos. Ask a friend. Come on man, it's not complicated.
[quote]How about figure out that the DRM is increasing the piracy instead of decreasing it and let people try out the game before they pay for it. That's the solution here. Pirating is a result of a problem not the problem itself. Of course excluding assholes who just pirate the game because they don't want to spend money on it. But they will always exist. You can't change that.[/QUOTE]
How about you figure out that piracy is increasing DRM and it's actually a vicious cycle.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;36738502]How about figure out that the DRM is increasing the piracy instead of decreasing it and let people try out the game before they pay for it. That's the solution here. Pirating is a result of a problem not the problem itself. Of course excluding assholes who just pirate the game because they don't want to spend money on it. But they will always exist. You can't change that.[/QUOTE]
This is probably the most important part of this post, I just want to know how you think a company can curb piracy without the use of DRM? DRM is no the solution, no, I never said it was, I even said that DRM came about from piracy, which increases from DRM, an endless cycle of shit. But what alternatives are there? Making a good product? Well, that doesn't really work to great, people still pirate it regardless. Lowering the prices? This is likely to work, sales are a great example of it, but then that impacts the earnings of a developer, and lowers budgets unless they can sell at least 150% to 200% of the sales they expect at £50 (assuming they sell at £35/£25 instead). Removing the DRM perhaps? Well, that clearly doesn't work, it just makes piracy even easier, though it does make it nicer for paying customers.
The Humble Indie Bundles are an amazing example of piracy issues. During the first bundle they actually had problems paying for upkeep against the number of downloads from people sharing links. The games have no DRM, are all of great quality in most bundles, and people still pirated them, even when you could set your own costs. So, we can lower piracy sure, but as long as it always exists, DRM will always exist.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;36738763]You don't have to call people idiots because they make an obvious assumption.[/QUOTE]
The assumption is idiotic and anyone who thinks like that is 50 years old.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;36738763]Can you provide any proof besides anecdotal evidence that supports this claim? Otherwise, I'll just assume that you are the only one who does this. And it's not actually justified anyway.[/QUOTE]
Oh so I have to give you a credible study saying how many people pirate games to try them out otherwise you are going to take it for certain that I'm the only one who does this without any proof supporting your claim except "logical assumption".
And it is justified as much as false advertisement.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;36738763]This is not excuse. If you don't like the product, then don't buy it.[/QUOTE]
I like the game. And I can get it a version of it without something that makes me skip the product. I'm going to use it. Stop the DRM, people won't do it.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;36738763]Actually reviews and gameplay videos are an excellent way of finding out whether a game will be good or not. They work for every other product in the consumer world. I don't understand how you think they aren't.[/QUOTE]
[URL="http://uk.ign.com/games/call-of-duty-modern-warfare-2/pc-14280895"]Oh right.[/URL] So if I spend money on something that I hate due to a dishonest review, a review by someone who has different standards than me or by false advertisement is okay. But trying out something and then deciding whether you want to buy or not is wrong. Even tho it could be done by releasing a legal demo.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;36738763]What better way to protest than not playing the game at all? You are supporting the DRM by playing the game.[/QUOTE]
"Game is good, your DRM ruins it". And HOW THE HELL am I supporting DRM by playing a CRACKED game? And how the hell am I supporting DRM if it makes me pirate the game thus increasing lost sales by 1? This makes no sense whatsoever.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;36738763]Reading this thread has made me sick to my stomach. A lot of you are very shallow criminals who have justified their crimes using logical fallacies and blatant lies. I'm at least glad that you're able to live with yourselves in your little fantasy world where you can steal anything that's too expensive.[/QUOTE]
Reading this thread has made me sick to my stomach. A lot of you are very gullible and will bow your head to all the bullshit done by publishers, think that trying out things before paying for them is worse than false advertisement, you also think that if someone else likes something everyone else will too. I'm sickened even more that in the fantasy world you have created you think you are the righteous one.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;36738999]This is probably the most important part of this post, I just want to know how you think a company can curb piracy without the use of DRM? DRM is no the solution, no, I never said it was, I even said that DRM came about from piracy, which increases from DRM, an endless cycle of shit. But what alternatives are there? Making a good product? Well, that doesn't really work to great, people still pirate it regardless. Lowering the prices? This is likely to work, sales are a great example of it, but then that impacts the earnings of a developer, and lowers budgets unless they can sell at least 150% to 200% of the sales they expect at £50 (assuming they sell at £35/£25 instead). Removing the DRM perhaps? Well, that clearly doesn't work, it just makes piracy even easier, though it does make it nicer for paying customers.
The Humble Indie Bundles are an amazing example of piracy issues. During the first bundle they actually had problems paying for upkeep against the number of downloads from people sharing links. The games have no DRM, are all of great quality in most bundles, and people still pirated them, even when you could set your own costs. So, we can lower piracy sure, but as long as it always exists, DRM will always exist.[/QUOTE]
Intrusive DRM is increasing piracy. Right now DRM hits only legit customers (after it was cracked). It makes the retail version less valuable. DRM has to target only pirates. Not the other way around. Basically everything has to be done that the retail version is better than the pirated one. Support, updates, user generated content.
And you have to be able to check the game before paying for it.
But even then people will pirate. For instance just because it's just a tiny bit easier to click download torrent than to put your credit card details and pay 1$ for it.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;36738763]Can you give some sort of evidence to support this claim?[/QUOTE]
What evidence? About what you said? You want me to link you to your own post? Or you want a credible study about people pirating games to try them and decide whether they want to buy it or not?
[QUOTE=King Tiger;36738763]I don't see how that matters. Businesses can make their products however they want. You can complain about it and talk about how bad it is and it may be really bad, but it's still a company's product.[/QUOTE]
Yes so? Companies can make their products however they want. And depending on how it's made it's either is going to be bought or not. If people don't like the product because it has strings attached, they will either pass on it or get a version without the strings.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;36738763]Why don't you return a game if you don't like it? Get a receipt.[/QUOTE]
How about give me a demo? So I don't have to buy a game, test and then return it, which is a pain in the ass if you work and don't have 8+ hours of free time a day. And even then. I don't know of any store around here that would give me a refund for working, opened game.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;36738763]Se above. And can you give some examples of this so called "DRM"? I've only ever heard of three or maybe four cases of it actually doing anything seriously wrong, but you're acting like every single game has some sort of "intrusive DRM" and that means you have to steal the game.[/QUOTE]
Always-online games? Not being able to play the game because you have 2 CDROMs and shit like that? And I'm not acting like every single game has it. How can all the games have that if that's one of 4 reasons I gave?
[QUOTE=King Tiger;36738763]But you don't have to buy it because IT'S A GAME! A GAME! It's a stupid device that you use to make yourself laugh or be excited! It's not like it's food or a house. You don't have to buy it! I thought you were saying this to someone else in this thread?[/QUOTE]
How is that relevant to anything? Yes the game is not necessary for my survival. So what? I want the game. But I don't want it if I have to always be online to play it. So I pass on it. And then I can get a version that doesn't have that restriction. And I will get it. Why wouldn't I? I'm a consumer it's not my fault the pirates are releasing more valuable product.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;36738763]When has a game reviewer ever made outright lies or false claims that has tricked someone into buying a bad game? And let's just pretend that all game reviews are unreliable. Then look at online videos of it, like walkthroughs or let's play videos. Ask a friend. Come on man, it's not complicated.[/QUOTE]
Fucking 10/10 on modern warfares for instance? And I don't have a list of credible reviewers, maybe you do. And even then how can I know if I'm going to like an interactive product without interacting with it? Games aren't movies. Your point is fucking retarded. If your friend says that he likes something it doesn't mean you will too. Same for everyone else.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;36738763]How about you figure out that piracy is increasing DRM and it's actually a vicious cycle.[/QUOTE]
How about adapting to reality and stop trying to use things that don't work? When a new technology is introduced it's the business model that has to change, not the people. It happened with gramophones, VCRs and now internet. Make the pirated copy less valuable to me than the retail copy and I will choose the better one. If the DRM hits only the legit customers, it has the opposite effect.
I am not "bowing my head" to anyone and I don't like being called gullible when I've not acted it. I only wish that you would stop kidding yourself and tricking yourself into seeing that games are vital commodities that have to be pirated in order to survive.
Also, why don't you just return games if you don't like them?
[QUOTE=Legend286;36735733]I
A better thing to do would be not pirate them or buy them, if the game is shit why are you going through so much effort to bypass drm and pirate it?[/QUOTE]
That's the thing with DRM though; It's usually easier to pirate a game than deal with any DRM, even the really non-intrusive kind. Heck, nowadays even dealing with the simplest CD-key check is harder than pirating the whole thing since the keygen will save you the typing. So yeah, pirating is the definite way of ridding an otherwise great game from intrusive DRM.
Personally I buy most of my games. It feels good legally owning the game, and so does supporting devs or publishers that I like and I enjoy partaking into making a game franchise successful and popular. I may pirate games that I have doubts I will like, have no real reason to try, and don't want to spend my hard-earned cash on in advance, because nowadays cinematic scripted trailers and biased reviews tell me jack shit of whether the game is really something I'd enjoy.
If I really enjoy a pirated game I'll buy it later if I get the opportunity, because of the above. Sometimes piracy is the only option to get a hold of older games no longer sold in stores (because they were released too long ago, they're no longer published or the console they ran on is phased out).
[editline]12th July 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=King Tiger;36738763]
Actually reviews and gameplay videos are an excellent way of finding out whether a game will be good or not. They work for every other product in the consumer world. I don't understand how you think they aren't.[/QUOTE]
Movies have trailers, games have demos. A non-interactive medium cannot demonstrate the qualities of an interactive product. A lack of demo indicates laziness and indignation on the developer's part which is further indication a game isn't good.
I'm trying to get into college to major in computer animation. Only way to get in is to know how to use that shit, and the programs are $4,000+. Student license is even quite expensive for me, and you need to jump through hoops to get it.
But also, the company is scummy to me. They're like what rockerfeller's business was like, just swallowing up smaller companies and taking the license to their programs, and not really doing a thing with them. I don't feel like supporting that company unless I'm making profit with "ther" program.
There are also plugins to these programs. Out of respect to the small developers, I don't get the cracked ones from them. Again, only the absurdly priced ones (V-Ray, lol).
With games, I buy ones I wish to play online. Games with replay value. I'm not too interested in a $60 singleplayer game, if I can't pirate it I won't buy it - I'll live without it. Not a lost sale.
I pirate games when I want to try out a game that is sorta 50/50 it could be good, or it could be horrible. I only really pirate stuff I wouldn't ever by otherwise, and if I do like it I will give money to the developer by buying it.
That and old games you can't buy any more.
I do pirate programs shamelessly. But as a student who wants to go into Graphic Design or 3D animation I can't really afford to pay out the 1000 bucks it is to own Maya to get a bit of experience in it before applying to a program, or the 600 it is to get Photoshop. (Rightfully I own the photoshop copy i pirated, I pirated it cause the disk broke and I couldn't get it off it again after my computer got wiped)
I will be getting a legal copy of those programs when I actually go in to using them for Profit, as a job.
[QUOTE=leet;36739659]I'm trying to get into college to major in computer animation. Only way to get in is to know how to use that shit, and the programs are $4,000+. Student license is even quite expensive for me, and you need to jump through hoops to get it.
But also, the company is scummy to me. They're like what rockerfeller's business was like, just swallowing up smaller companies and taking the license to their programs, and not really doing a thing with them. I don't feel like supporting that company unless I'm making profit with "ther" program.
There are also plugins to these programs. Out of respect to the small developers, I don't get the cracked ones from them. Again, only the absurdly priced ones (V-Ray, lol).
With games, I buy ones I wish to play online. Games with replay value. I'm not too interested in a $60 singleplayer game, if I can't pirate it I won't buy it - I'll live without it. Not a lost sale.[/QUOTE]
I can understand piracy of software that costs hundreds of dollars, when you want to use it to learn and for personal use. The pricing is ridiculous for personal licences. But I still can't see how you can justify piracy of games as much as they aren't hundreds of dollars. Plus companies like Adobe do see more profit from piracy as people will learn their tools, then buy a licence for commercial use when they need it. Games developers, not so much. Nothing requires you to buy the game most times to earn money from it.
I only really pirate games if I own them and I want to play the game at a lower build version. Game's like paradox strategy titles get major updates by expansions and people still make mods for the vanilla title, but with steam, I can't download vanilla without the expansion attached.
People pirate games because they don't want to buy them, whether or not they can afford it is irrelevant.
When there isn't a demo for a certain game, I will dl it to test if my pc can handle it.
it is okey unles u r sumalion
DRM has been mentioned in some previous comments, I just want to contribute more to that area of debate:
World of Goo was released without any form of DRM, and yet 2D Boy estimated piracy rates to be around 90%. Keep in mind that 2D Boy is also a small indie team (not some AAA developer under a major publisher), released the game with a demo, and the game was certainly no candidate for "benefit of the doubt" (like Rogue Warrior, one of the dodgiest games out there) because it achieved a 90% rating on Metacritic, and a user score of 8.8.
There is also the case of the first Humble Indie Bundle where piracy was claimed by Wolfire to be around 25%. However, none of the games in the bundle had DRM, the bundle was made up of critically acclaimed indie-developed games (such as Penumbra: Overture and the aforementioned World of Goo) and all it took for a sale to be legitimate was for a person to pay $0.01 (and even then, the buyer got access to all the games in the bundle).
People in this thread have claimed that they pirate games because they can be expensive, come with DRM, have no demo and so on. My question for you is: Given what I've just stated above, can you still justify those reasons for piracy, when even if developers put no DRM in their games, even offer pay what you want models and feature demos, that pirates still make up a significant portion of the install base of those games?
Sources:
[url]http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2008/11/acrying-shame-world-of-goo-piracy-rate-near-90/[/url]
[url]http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/05/Saving-a-penny----pirating-the-Humble-Indie-Bundle[/url]
[QUOTE=Antdawg;36744637]People in this thread have claimed that they pirate games because they can be expensive, come with DRM, have no demo and so on. My question for you is: Given what I've just stated above, can you still justify those reasons for piracy, when even if developers put no DRM in their games, even offer pay what you want models and feature demos, that pirates still make up a significant portion of the install base of those games?[/QUOTE]
World of Goo is really one of those games you look at and say "I'd play it, but I'd never pay for that". It's a game you'd expect to see on the games section of Newgrounds or a free app on your smartphone. So I believe that has a lot to do with World of Goo's piracy numbers.
With the Indie bundle you also have to remember that not everyone got access to online payment, so some will pirate it as long as it isn't free, there is a large userbase of 6-18 year olds out there without any way of purchasing things online and that can't get their parents to do it for them.
Also pirate numbers excludes repeated amount of downloads from the same person and do not prove that they actually installed it. By God, many pirates just download a bunch of stuff but let it just rot away (like how I have a fuckton of games I've never touched in my Steam Library because of sales) or delete it afterwards.
Also pirates will always be present, there is nothing better but getting shit for free, no matter what it is. Some people are just not willing to spend money on games because they deem it dumb to spend money on it if you don't have to. They're greedy careless bastards. It's not justifiable, but there is no way you're going to stop them, and they're not lost sales because they would never buy it anyways, they get to enjoy your product, yes, but you have no means to stop them, hopefully they will spread the word around getting your game known if they thought it was good.
So yes, I justify piracy no matter what the game did wrong or right. It boils down to why the individual persons pirated it. Did they just want it for free or was it their only way to obtain it? Did they want to try it out without facing the limits of a demo? Etc.
[QUOTE=dgg;36744787]
Also pirates will always be present, there is nothing better but getting shit for free, no matter what it is. Some people are just not willing to spend money on games because they deem it dumb to spend money on it if you don't have to. They're greedy careless bastards. It's not justifiable, but there is no way you're going to stop them, and they're not lost sales because they would never buy it anyways, they get to enjoy your product, yes, but you have no means to stop them, hopefully they will spread the word around getting your game known if they thought it was good.
So yes, I justify piracy no matter what the game did wrong or right. [B]It boils down to why the individual persons pirated it.[/B] Did they just want it for free or was it their only way to obtain it? Did they want to try it out without facing the limits of a demo? Etc.[/QUOTE]
Except at the end of the day there's no real difference between the "greedy careless bastard" and the "Try before I buy!" Hell, the greedy careless bastard comes out on top because unlike the others, he doesn't actually have any moral qualms about pirating, nor does he feel any obligation to buy the game itself.
Most of the games I've pirated can't be found anywherem or have been games I pirate and then buy it. I either buy the game afterward like I did with Knights of the Old Republic when I decided to replay it, or I buy the sequal like I did with Mass Effect. Although buying Mass Effect 3 was a mistake. I'm not really justifying pirating. I don't have a credit card, so I'm limited to buying games from the store which is like thirty minutes away, or buying a prepaid credit card.
I have about fifty games I've bought on steam though.
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;36746164]Except at the end of the day there's no real difference between the "greedy careless bastard" and the "Try before I buy!" Hell, the greedy careless bastard comes out on top because unlike the others, he doesn't actually have any moral qualms about pirating, nor does he feel any obligation to buy the game itself.[/QUOTE]
I think there is a big difference.
The "greedy careless bastards" doesn't support any companies and doesn't help the industry create great games. The "Try before I buy" only buys games they actually want in the gaming industry. Good games gets money whilst bad games don't get a dime.
So how can you say the "greedy bastards" tops the "try before buy" when "the try before buy" guys actually buys the products and supports the developers that does a good job bringing quality entertainment?
See, if you buy a game that is telling the developers, and especially the publishers, that the game is good and that they should make more like that, or a sequel. Now, with most games out there you really can't tell if the game is good or bad before you've forked out 60 bucks, and if it sucks and you don't want those shitty fucking games to be made ever again or you think the developers or publishers should burn in hell because of stupid ass decisions then there is no way you can affect that. You've already bought the game, you've told them they did a good job when you think otherwise.
The only way to give any feedback on this is by making forum posts on the games forum or similar things, but that doesn't really have a big effect unless it's tips for what they could do on a sequel, which in this case is what you would want the least.
Sure, you can watch videos and read reviews. But just like with a movie, there really isn't any way to tell what the game really is like without playing it yourself. Games are interactive, and if you don't interact with them then you can't really tell how they would be for you.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;36738602]I never said anything about torrenting in particular, but actually, yes, if you use torrents to pirate material it is stealing. And I also never mentioned maturity or self control, but now that you bring it up, it actually does kind of show that you lack self control if you have to steal games and then justify it.[/QUOTE]
I wasn't even talking to you. I still don't understand what he meant.
[QUOTE=_jesterk;36746771]I wasn't even talking to you. I still don't understand what he meant.[/QUOTE]
You quoted me...
Okay it looks like I actually did :v:
Sorry. I was talking to milkandcooki when I said that.
[editline]13th July 2012[/editline]
I think this video is appropriate though.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uhYm8nLdb0&feature=plcp[/media]
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