I generally torrent new games if they dont have a demo to test how they run on my computer. Usually I will play through the entire game once (thats only if it runs well or if I like it) and then I buy it when I can.
[QUOTE=Shirky;40759750]I generally torrent new games if they dont have a demo to test how they run on my computer. Usually I will play through the entire game once (thats only if it runs well or if I like it) and then I buy it when I can.[/QUOTE]
Why should you get to play it before paying for it?
[QUOTE=Da Bomb76;40759889]Why should you get to play it before paying for it?[/QUOTE]
There's a false notion that customers are entitled to this.
They aren't.
[QUOTE=Da Bomb76;40759889]Why should you get to play it before paying for it?[/QUOTE]
Because I'm not going to buy a game that wont run on my computer well. When you see the system requirements they usually aren't accurate for every single computer ( even more so when its a console port, like GTA4). My computer can be below the minimum requirements and play a game fine, or it could be above the recommended and not able to play it at all. Its like a lot of things in life, a car, cloths, a phone, a house; you get to try them out and see how well you like it before you buy it.
[QUOTE=Shirky;40763465]Because I'm not going to buy a game that wont run on my computer well. When you see the system requirements they usually aren't accurate for every single computer ( even more so when its a console port, like GTA4). My computer can be below the minimum requirements and play a game fine, or it could be above the recommended and not able to play it at all. Its like a lot of things in life, a car, cloths, a phone, a house; you get to try them out and see how well you like it before you buy it.[/QUOTE]
With a car you can't take it back home with you and drive it to your heart's desire until you decide whether to buy it or not.
With a phone you can't take the display model back home with you, to make calls off of it or install your own things on it.
And with a house you certainly cannot move your own furniture into it and sleep there for a night before deciding to buy it or not. The things you mentioned have limited demonstrations, but pirating games gives you an unlimited demonstration. Yes, not all games have demos, but not all of everything you mentioned does either. What if you contract a firm to build you a house? You can't get a feel for the house until it's finally finished, and at that point the firm would have received all your money anyways. Life is about risks, that's the way it is.
[QUOTE=Shirky;40763465]Because I'm not going to buy a game that wont run on my computer well. When you see the system requirements they usually aren't accurate for every single computer ( even more so when its a console port, like GTA4). My computer can be below the minimum requirements and play a game fine, or it could be above the recommended and not able to play it at all. Its like a lot of things in life, a car, cloths, a phone, a house; you get to try them out and see how well you like it before you buy it.[/QUOTE]
So then your real complaint should be about having the correct specs and not falsely advertising, which is a legitimate complaint. You still don't have the right to play the game for free and then decide later if you want to pay.
[QUOTE=Da Bomb76;40759686]The owners of the products can market them however they see fit. You don't really have any say in it.[/QUOTE]
Umm? I don't see how that's relevant? Of course I don't have a say in it. I am making a personal observation on my part. Thanks for being a twat and ignoring the rest of my comment.
[QUOTE=JJ Isaac;40765210]Umm? I don't see how that's relevant? Of course I don't have a say in it. I am making a personal observation on my part. Thanks for being a twat and ignoring the rest of my comment.[/QUOTE]
You don't really have to flame me dude its just a debate. Also, I know you we're just making a personal observation. I was just pointing out that just because it may be a good marketing idea, that doesn't mean anyone has the right to pirate something
[QUOTE=Da Bomb76;40765235]You don't really have to flame me dude its just a debate. Also, I know you we're just making a personal observation. I was just pointing out that just because it may be a good marketing idea, that doesn't mean anyone has the right to pirate something[/QUOTE]
I apologize, mate. You should've said that then.
And you are still kind are running in circles with your point. So WHAT if no one has the right? I am asking why is piracy bad if it is a viable economic option for these parties? Piracy is going to exist. Unless you strip the internet of it's rights, piracy will continue to thrive. So why not use it as a force for free public advertisement or build a business model around it?
I forget where I saw it, but I read somewhere that "try before you buy," statistically speaking, did not work the majority of the time. That apparently more often than not people would actually be driven away from buying a said game after having tried the demo for the first few levels. I think demos are a great thing though and that they should exist.
[QUOTE]With a car you can't take it back home with you and drive it to your heart's desire until you decide whether to buy it or not.
With a phone you can't take the display model back home with you, to make calls off of it or install your own things on it.
And with a house you certainly cannot move your own furniture into it and sleep there for a night before deciding to buy it or not. The things you mentioned have limited demonstrations, but pirating games gives you an unlimited demonstration. Yes, not all games have demos, but not all of everything you mentioned does either. What if you contract a firm to build you a house? You can't get a feel for the house until it's finally finished, and at that point the firm would have received all your money anyways. Life is about risks, that's the way it is. [/QUOTE]
With a car - you can resell it and make a good bit of money back.
With a phone - you can resell it and make a good bit of money back.
With a house - you can resell it and make a good bit of money back.
I don't see how you can compare media to physical things. I think that's ridiculous, sorry.
You can buy a game or a piece of media and TRY to sell it. You are barely going to get anything though. And if you bought your media digitally - well. You're just fucked and you're stuck with it.
Games, for the most part, are pretty expensive. As a college student, my money is tight and I might be able to only buy a game every couple of months. Maybe not even that. I think I have only bought one AAA game in the past six months and a couple indie games only because paying for food and rent is such a heavy burden for me. Now I won't lie... I pirate. And I pirate a good bit. But what I do pirate, I make sure to become an embodiment of advertisement for said game. I go around and tell all my friends to check out this game that they have never heard of. I let them come over to my house to play it. After awhile, some of my friends do end up buying the game. Thus, one customer who *did not* have the funds for the game brought in several new customers who had never even heard of the game before. I am not going to feel guilty about that.
[QUOTE=JJ Isaac;40765449]I apologize, mate. You should've said that then.
And you are still kind are running in circles with your point. So WHAT if no one has the right? I am asking why is piracy bad if it is a viable economic option for these parties? Piracy is going to exist. Unless you strip the internet of it's rights, piracy will continue to thrive. So why not use it as a force for free public advertisement or build a business model around it?
I forget where I saw it, but I read somewhere that "try before you buy," statistically speaking, did not work the majority of the time. That apparently more often than not people would actually be driven away from buying a said game after having tried the demo for the first few levels. I think demos are a great thing though and that they should exist.[/QUOTE]
So I believed you before when you said you were just making a personal statement. Now you're just doing what I just said you were doing: trying to convince me that it's OK to use the product before you pay for it. You seem to think that it's up to you to determine the price, method of sale, and time of purchase, even though you don't own the product and did nothing to produce it. You treat digital media as some sort of special medium when it's not. You don't get to determine how the producers market their product. If Gabe releases HL3 and sets a $2 billion dollar price tag on it per copy then you still have absolutely no right to circumvent that just because you disagree. It's not your product. If the producers want you to pay first and then play after, then you abide by those rules or don't play it.
Let's just pretend for a second that gaming companies release their games for free and then allow you to buy later (this is the ludicrous concept you are espousing, but we'll just go with it). Let's just say that this new marketing method would somehow magically net them double the profits of their previous games. [B]If they don't want to do that then they don't have to.[/B] Also, these companies are based completely on the concept of making a shitzillion dollars. Do you think if releasing the game for free and then allowing the gamer to pay later would make more money, that they would not immediately jump on that opportunity?
[quote]With a car - you can resell it and make a good bit of money back.
With a phone - you can resell it and make a good bit of money back.
With a house - you can resell it and make a good bit of money back.
I don't see how you can compare media to physical things. I think that's ridiculous, sorry.
You can buy a game or a piece of media and TRY to sell it. You are barely going to get anything though. And if you bought your media digitally - well. You're just fucked and you're stuck with it.[/quote]
Lol none of those things you listed will resell anywhere close to the original buying price. Ever.
A old house compared to a new house? It's possible to buy a house and then have it be worth half its original worth a year later. This is a common occurance.
A used phone compared to a new one? That might sell for a half of the buying price IF it's in pristine condition.
A used car compared to a new one? Lol.
Pick some examples that help your point next time.
[quote]Games, for the most part, are pretty expensive. As a college student, my money is tight and I might be able to only buy a game every couple of months. Maybe not even that. I think I have only bought one AAA game in the past six months and a couple indie games only because paying for food and rent is such a heavy burden for me. Now I won't lie... I pirate. And I pirate a good bit. But what I do pirate, I make sure to become an embodiment of advertisement for said game. I go around and tell all my friends to check out this game that they have never heard of. I let them come over to my house to play it. After awhile, some of my friends do end up buying the game. Thus, one customer who *did not* have the funds for the game brought in several new customers who had never even heard of the game before. I am not going to feel guilty about that.[/quote]
Nobody cares. The game developers certainly don't care. What if they don't want you to have their game before you pay money? What gives you the right to dictate their business practices or marketing schemes?
I think it's more of "piracy" than "trying before buying". I don't think I've known anyone who pirated something, then went "Oh, this is pretty good! I'll remove this full version program I just freely acquired and reacquire it by paying this time!"
Though, I guess the "try before you buy" might fit in more if the thing you want doesn't have a demo version, and you want to see how your PC can handle something. It can't be fun paying for a program that runs like shit, and you're gonna save money taking the piracy route anyway so... double positive there.
[QUOTE=xZippy;40773223]I think it's more of "piracy" than "trying before buying". I don't think I've known anyone who pirated something, then went "Oh, this is pretty good! I'll remove this full version program I just freely acquired and reacquire it by paying this time!"
Though, I guess the "try before you buy" might fit in more if the thing you want doesn't have a demo version, and you want to see how your PC can handle something. It can't be fun paying for a program that runs like shit, and you're gonna save money taking the piracy route anyway so... double positive there.[/QUOTE]
I pirated just cause... a few years later, I bought just cause 2, and recommended it to my friends.
I pirated crysis, I bought crysis warhead, 2, wars... I also recommended it to many friends who had bought it.
Without me pirating a few games most of the people who I told the game about would have never even heard about it; The company (migth have) lost a few $.
The big problem here is that just because someone pirates something, it doesnt mean they would buy it.
If I didnt pirate most of the games I play today I would have never purchased them.
Sure, I do have lots of games on my computer- but most are not worth what companies make me pay for them. For most of the games I try are so bad I wouldnt pay 5% of the price that the company tells me to pay.
Reviews can help in deciding what games are good, and which arent; but they do have quite a lot of problems.
A lot of reviews are bias, or are paid to do the review about a certain game; and the ones who arent? well, everyone likes different types of games... I myself loved crysis 2, but would I give it a rating of 9/10 as IGN gave it? no- Maybe a 6 or a 7 would be close to my rating.
Half life? Good story, bad game.
Not every game most people like, will mean that everyone will love, It is not as simple as "I dont like it- I want a refund"
To me piracy is simply free advertising, also with the extreme prices in places such as Australia...
Well lets just say COD MW2 (yes 2; the one that came out in 2009) still costs $89.99...
I would just like to leave you with this little video...
(Its cheaper to fly to USA, but the boxed edition than to buy it in AUS online.)
[video=youtube;78yigV0GYGQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78yigV0GYGQ[/video]
[QUOTE=Kubar;40800699]I pirated just cause... a few years later, I bought just cause 2, and recommended it to my friends.
I pirated crysis, I bought crysis warhead, 2, wars... I also recommended it to many friends who had bought it.
Without me pirating a few games most of the people who I told the game about would have never even heard about it; The company (migth have) lost a few $.
The big problem here is that just because someone pirates something, it doesnt mean they would buy it.
If I didnt pirate most of the games I play today I would have never purchased them.
Sure, I do have lots of games on my computer- but most are not worth what companies make me pay for them. For most of the games I try are so bad I wouldnt pay 5% of the price that the company tells me to pay.
Reviews can help in deciding what games are good, and which arent; but they do have quite a lot of problems.
A lot of reviews are bias, or are paid to do the review about a certain game; and the ones who arent? well, everyone likes different types of games... I myself loved crysis 2, but would I give it a rating of 9/10 as IGN gave it? no- Maybe a 6 or a 7 would be close to my rating.
Half life? Good story, bad game.
Not every game most people like, will mean that everyone will love, It is not as simple as "I dont like it- I want a refund"
To me piracy is simply free advertising, also with the extreme prices in places such as Australia...
Well lets just say COD MW2 (yes 2; the one that came out in 2009) still costs $89.99...
I would just like to leave you with this little video...
(Its cheaper to fly to USA, but the boxed edition than to buy it in AUS online.)
[video=youtube;78yigV0GYGQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78yigV0GYGQ[/video][/QUOTE]
Nobody gives a damn what you think you are entitled to. The company gets to set the prices. It doesn't matter if they are "outrageous" in your opinion. You don't get to set your own price on someone else's product.
[QUOTE=Kubar;40800699]I pirated just cause... a few years later, I bought just cause 2, and recommended it to my friends.
I pirated crysis, I bought crysis warhead, 2, wars... I also recommended it to many friends who had bought it.
Without me pirating a few games most of the people who I told the game about would have never even heard about it; The company (migth have) lost a few $.[/QUOTE]
Recommendations are not exclusive to pirated games. You could have quite easily have given a recommendation after buying the game. Furthermore, there is no evidence that your friends wouldn't have bought the game without your recommendation. Your own use of the words 'might have' pretty much sums up the whole argument that pirates use, which revolves almost entirely around assumptions, guesses and unquatifiable statements.
[QUOTE=Kubar;40800699]The big problem here is that just because someone pirates something, it doesnt mean they would buy it.
If I didnt pirate most of the games I play today I would have never purchased them.[/QUOTE]
So you believe that because you didn't intend to buy a game, you are entitled to pirate it? That is a terrible logic. I don't like salt and vinegar flavoured crisps, but I am not therefore entitled to just take a packet from the local shop.
[QUOTE=Kubar;40800699]Sure, I do have lots of games on my computer- but most are not worth what companies make me pay for them. For most of the games I try are so bad I wouldnt pay 5% of the price that the company tells me to pay.[/QUOTE]
It is not up to you to dictate what a game is worth.
[QUOTE=Kubar;40800699]Reviews can help in deciding what games are good, and which arent; but they do have quite a lot of problems.
A lot of reviews are bias, or are paid to do the review about a certain game; and the ones who arent? well, everyone likes different types of games... I myself loved crysis 2, but would I give it a rating of 9/10 as IGN gave it? no- Maybe a 6 or a 7 would be close to my rating.
Half life? Good story, bad game.
Not every game most people like, will mean that everyone will love, It is not as simple as "I dont like it- I want a refund"[/QUOTE]
Welcome to life. Sometimes we have to take risks when buying things. Your argument is akin to going to a restaurant and saying "I'm not sure if I like anything on the menu - let me eat my meal first and then decide if I will pay for it". If you really are so worried about whether you will enjoy a game, go ask a friend about what he/she thinks of it - after all, you are the one who is raving about the benefit of personal recommendations.
As an aside - I seriously recommend you don't become a games reviewer if you think a game you 'love' only deserves a 6.
[QUOTE=Kubar;40800699]To me piracy is simply free advertising, also with the extreme prices in places such as Australia...
Well lets just say COD MW2 (yes 2; the one that came out in 2009) still costs $89.99...[/QUOTE]
No - it's not free advertising. It is taking benefit of invested time, effort and money and not providing any return. In the sense of gaining 'something for nothing', it is theft. And if you don't like the prices - then just go without the game. Bad pricing has never justified illegal and immoral practices like theft and piracy.
Pirating from an independent company and never giving them your money is indefensible.
Pirating from a massive company whose actions make it seem like their only interests are to make money and screw over the consumer, however, is much more justifiable.
[QUOTE=David29;40802323]Recommendations are not exclusive to pirated games. You could have quite easily have given a recommendation after buying the game. Furthermore, there is no evidence that your friends wouldn't have bought the game without your recommendation. Your own use of the words 'might have' pretty much sums up the whole argument that pirates use, which revolves almost entirely around assumptions, guesses and unquatifiable statements.
So you believe that because you didn't intend to buy a game, you are entitled to pirate it? That is a terrible logic. I don't like salt and vinegar flavoured crisps, but I am not therefore entitled to just take a packet from the local shop.
It is not up to you to dictate what a game is worth.
Welcome to life. Sometimes we have to take risks when buying things. Your argument is akin to going to a restaurant and saying "I'm not sure if I like anything on the menu - let me eat my meal first and then decide if I will pay for it". If you really are so worried about whether you will enjoy a game, go ask a friend about what he/she thinks of it - after all, you are the one who is raving about the benefit of personal recommendations.
As an aside - I seriously recommend you don't become a games reviewer if you think a game you 'love' only deserves a 6.
No - it's not free advertising. It is taking benefit of invested time, effort and money and not providing any return. In the sense of gaining 'something for nothing', it is theft. And if you don't like the prices - then just go without the game. Bad pricing has never justified illegal and immoral practices like theft and piracy.[/QUOTE]
Do you really think I would of paid $90 when I was a kid, didnt have a job, and didnt get allowance?
I didnt get christmas money, only got ~$50 from my mum on my birthday.... Do you really think I would of paid $90 for a game that I didnt know anything about?
If I didnt pirate it, I would of never played it- and that is why I would have never recommended the game to anyone.
Lets be realistic, look at your Iphones/Android/itunes, look at the amount of songs you have, and then think how many of those songs you would of bought if you didnt hear them somewhere; the fact is that most of those songs you heard on a friends ipod, on a youtube video, etc etc- and most of those were either pirated, or you listened to it without purchasing it- therefor its also piracy.
Do you have an adblocker? Do you sometimes close a webpage before allowing all of it to load? That could also be considered piracy, I have my own website, and the only money I get from it is from ads...
Ads where I get paid ~10c per click... and lets me real- how often do people click on ads? (usually between 0.1%-3%)
and out of the thousands who view my site, only a few dont have adblockers-- you are getting something for nothing.
On TV- do you sometimes swith to another channel when an ad is on? That is also getting somethign for nothing.
Unless you sit there, watch everyday, pay attention to it, dont use adblockers, dont close web pages before they fully load, dont listen to music from other peoples ipods, listen to the ads on radio.... (I could keep going) you are pirating in someway or another.
On my site I know that some people will not be able to access my site with an adblocker, but I dont disallow them form viewing the site, I know that each person will tell an average of 3 other people about the site, if they like it, they can view, tell their friends, etc. and out of those friends some wont have adblockers.
But the big difference between viewing a website which makes MUCH LESS money than a game company is that People can view the content for free, and if they like the content they might click an ad- which will get me ~10c.
You dont see many big game companies releasing games for free, with the addition for people to donate money or click on an ad.
I dont think you read the report about Iphone apps which are free, with iap and ads made more revenue than apps that are paid?
More people can try them out, and there will be a better chance of them telling their friends, and them paying paying money.
Its never as simple as:
You pay to play, or you dont pay and play-- often you will see that if a person cannot pirate the game, they will not go out and buy it.
I have 110 games on steam, and lots more on origin, and retail versions, but I have much more games that have been pirated- 95% of those pirated games I wouldnt even pay $1 for. I only have them to try them out, or because I have nothing better to do.
Its never "10,000,000 games pirated = 10,000,000 games not sold" 10,000,000 games had the potential of being sold, but at most.. only a few of those pirated games would of been sold.
Soo... taking risks when buying things...
I dont remember the name of the game that did this... but they gave a demo version of the game which included a level that wasnt even in the game, the game was horrible, they had massive pre purchase specials for it, but it and you get a 2nd game free, you get special items, etc.
if you want to take those kind of risks I will tell you what- I will sell you a Knife, I will take a video of me cutting steel with the knife, and when you buy it its an entirely different knife.
Your example of a restaurant does not work well in this example.
A digital copy of an item costs the company nothing, preparing the food costs time and money, but even so I can give my plate of food to someone else, they might enjoy it, but if I buy a game on steam I cannot give it to someone else.
Thats like the owner of the restaurant saying only I can eat it, I cannot take it home, give it to anyone sitting next to me to try, I either eat it, or not...
At a restaurant if the menu has a picture of a beautiful chocolate cake, with a very high price you would expect it to be high quality.
If they give you a slice of cake that looks like it came from a supermarket for $1, burnt, and smells off I know I would not pay for it.
I would ask them to take it back, but unfortuantly I cannot ask a company to take back a game that I have played- especially if it is bad.
In a restaurant if something doesnt meet my expectations I will not pay for it- if I have tried it, eaten half of it or not, I will not pay for it if it is not what I have asked for.
A game unfortuantly I have to pay before I even can play it, and often months before the game is even finished.
[QUOTE=Kubar;40810272]Do you really think I would of paid $90 when I was a kid, didnt have a job, and didnt get allowance?
I didnt get christmas money, only got ~$50 from my mum on my birthday.... Do you really think I would of paid $90 for a game that I didnt know anything about?[/QUOTE]
Can't afford a game? Then go without it. Would you steal a chocolate bar from a shop if you were in the same situation? I suspect not. Piracy is not the alternative to being unable to buy a game - going without the game is.
[QUOTE=Kubar;40810272]If I didnt pirate it, I would of never played it- and that is why I would have never recommended the game to anyone.[/QUOTE]
I'm sure the developers would rather you actually bought the game rather than you pirating it and recommending it. Stop trying to sugarcoat what you are doing.
[QUOTE=Kubar;40810272]Lets be realistic, look at your Iphones/Android/itunes, look at the amount of songs you have, and then think how many of those songs you would of bought if you didnt hear them somewhere; the fact is that most of those songs you heard on a friends ipod, on a youtube video, etc etc- and most of those were either pirated, or you listened to it without purchasing it- therefor its also piracy.[/QUOTE]
Two [b]major[/b] issues here:
"and most of those were either pirated"
That is a massive assumption about where I have originally heard those songs and whether or not they were pirated at the point of origin.
"or you listened to it without purchasing it- therefor its also piracy."
No... Piracy is if you obtain a [b]copy[/b] of something. Just listening to something is not piracy and if you think it is then you are an idiot.
[QUOTE=Kubar;40810272]Do you have an adblocker? Do you sometimes close a webpage before allowing all of it to load? That could also be considered piracy, I have my own website, and the only money I get from it is from ads...
Ads where I get paid ~10c per click... and lets me real- how often do people click on ads? (usually between 0.1%-3%)
and out of the thousands who view my site, only a few dont have adblockers-- you are getting something for nothing.
On TV- do you sometimes swith to another channel when an ad is on? That is also getting somethign for nothing.[/QUOTE]
I shall repeat myself:
"No... Piracy is if you obtain a [b]copy[/b] of something" (in a nutshell). A more correct definition is "The term "piracy" has been used to refer to the [b]unauthorized copying, distribution and selling of works in copyright.[/b]"
What you are talking about has sod all to do with piracy and I am finding it quite amusing that you are trying to argue in favour of something you clearly have no understanding of.
[QUOTE=Kubar;40810272]Unless you sit there, watch everyday, pay attention to it, dont use adblockers, dont close web pages before they fully load, dont listen to music from other peoples ipods, listen to the ads on radio.... (I could keep going) you are pirating in someway or another.
On my site I know that some people will not be able to access my site with an adblocker, but I dont disallow them form viewing the site, I know that each person will tell an average of 3 other people about the site, if they like it, they can view, tell their friends, etc. and out of those friends some wont have adblockers.
But the big difference between viewing a website which makes MUCH LESS money than a game company is that People can view the content for free, and if they like the content they might click an ad- which will get me ~10c.
You dont see many big game companies releasing games for free, with the addition for people to donate money or click on an ad.[/QUOTE]
Except the WWW has always been a generally free service. If I enter a website, I legally do not owe anything to that person - unless I was presented with a formal declaration which I must agree to. If you feel that access to your website should be worth something, then start trying to charge people (good luck with that). Basically, one cannot 'pirate' from something that is does not legally charge.
Also, you can't compare a not-for-profit website against a big business.
[QUOTE=Kubar;40810272]I dont think you read the report about Iphone apps which are free, with iap and ads made more revenue than apps that are paid?
More people can try them out, and there will be a better chance of them telling their friends, and them paying paying money.[/QUOTE]
Can you provide a link to said report please?
[QUOTE=Kubar;40810272]Its never as simple as:
You pay to play, or you dont pay and play-- often you will see that if a person cannot pirate the game, they will not go out and buy it.
I have 110 games on steam, and lots more on origin, and retail versions, but I have much more games that have been pirated- 95% of those pirated games I wouldnt even pay $1 for. I only have them to try them out, or because I have nothing better to do.[/QUOTE]
Ok, so we are establishing that you have the same moral compass as a thief then - at least we are getting somewhere.
"I have nothing better to do so I will pirate that game." - Awesome justification.
[QUOTE=Kubar;40810272]Its never "10,000,000 games pirated = 10,000,000 games not sold" 10,000,000 games had the potential of being sold, but at most.. only a few of those pirated games would of been sold.[/QUOTE]
Again, assumptions and guesswork. The burden of responsibility is on you to prove that a pirated game [b]isn't[/b] a lost sales. Many times in the past I have been in positions where I have bought games I would never have normally bought, for one reason or another. There is always potential for a game to be sold and by pirating it you are taking away that potential.
[QUOTE=Kubar;40810272]Soo... taking risks when buying things...
I dont remember the name of the game that did this... but they gave a demo version of the game which included a level that wasnt even in the game, the game was horrible, they had massive pre purchase specials for it, but it and you get a 2nd game free, you get special items, etc.
if you want to take those kind of risks I will tell you what- I will sell you a Knife, I will take a video of me cutting steel with the knife, and when you buy it its an entirely different knife.[/QUOTE]
Then I would take you to court for false advertisement. Customers can't complain if they fail to act on these issues.
[QUOTE=Kubar;40810272]Your example of a restaurant does not work well in this example.
A digital copy of an item costs the company nothing, preparing the food costs time and money, but even so I can give my plate of food to someone else, they might enjoy it, but if I buy a game on steam I cannot give it to someone else.
Thats like the owner of the restaurant saying only I can eat it, I cannot take it home, give it to anyone sitting next to me to try, I either eat it, or not...[/QUOTE]
My point was to highlight that you dishonestly benefitting from the work of others without giving anything in return. You are taking the examples far too literally and trying to compare them in exact terms. You can't. I have come to accept that theft is not the same as piracy in exact terms, but there are similarites - namely that you are getting a copy of something for nothing.
[QUOTE=David29;40813108]Again, assumptions and guesswork. The burden of responsibility is on you to prove that a pirated game [b]isn't[/b] a lost sales.[/QUOTE]
Not it isn't.
Companies have been arguing for years that each download is a lost sale so it's their assumption and they're the ones who need to prove their claims.
[QUOTE=uber.;40813262]Not it isn't.
Companies have been arguing for years that each download is a lost sale so it's their assumption and they're the ones who need to prove their claims.[/QUOTE]
There is plenty of evidence out there which proves that piracy affects sales. Need an example? Here:
[url]http://www.tweakguides.com/Piracy_1.html[/url]
I appreciate it is lengthy, but it goes into depth on some key areas. Chiefly, it highlights the higher levels of piracy on the PC and the subsequently higher sales of console games.
So the ball is back in Kubar's court. Your turn to provide evidence.
Since everyone is on the piracy band wagon my question is listening to music posted on youtube piracy?
i have seen many record labels post their musicians music on youtube and youtube does allow you so save it and even paid for products such a real player plus allows you to download the youtube video so would that be considered piracy if you can just keep every music video thats uploaded? but wouldnt that be piracy if every song i heard on mtv i recorded with my dvr? if this is ALL PIRACY WTF ARE THEY MAKING THESE MACHINES TO DO JUST THAT??
[QUOTE=DELTA440;40814977]Since everyone is on the piracy band wagon my question is listening to music posted on youtube piracy?
i have seen many record labels post their musicians music on youtube and youtube does allow you so save it and even paid for products such a real player plus allows you to download the youtube video so would that be considered piracy if you can just keep every music video thats uploaded? but wouldnt that be piracy if every song i heard on mtv i recorded with my dvr? if this is ALL PIRACY WTF ARE THEY MAKING THESE MACHINES TO DO JUST THAT??[/QUOTE]
Well the whole debate is centered mostly about games, and comparing music/movies to a game isnt fair, because watching gameplay of the full version of a game isnt the same as watching the finished version of a Movie.
it's really hard to come up with a fair comparison since games are so unique.
[QUOTE=DELTA440;40814977]Since everyone is on the piracy band wagon my question is listening to music posted on youtube piracy?
i have seen many record labels post their musicians music on youtube and youtube does allow you so save it and even paid for products such a real player plus allows you to download the youtube video so would that be considered piracy if you can just keep every music video thats uploaded? but wouldnt that be piracy if every song i heard on mtv i recorded with my dvr? if this is ALL PIRACY WTF ARE THEY MAKING THESE MACHINES TO DO JUST THAT??[/QUOTE]
Official YouTube channels make their money per view, similar to Spotify. Downloading from YouTube takes away that revenue from them. If you want the convenience of YouTube, I heavily recommend Spotify.
[QUOTE=Shirky;40763465]Because I'm not going to buy a game that wont run on my computer well. When you see the system requirements they usually aren't accurate for every single computer ( even more so when its a console port, like GTA4). My computer can be below the minimum requirements and play a game fine, or it could be above the recommended and not able to play it at all. Its like a lot of things in life, a car, cloths, a phone, a house; you get to try them out and see how well you like it before you buy it.[/QUOTE]
Not sure if this was addressed or not, and I know it's from last page, but...
I can understand of trying the game to see if you can run it. I don't have a great computer, either. I don't pirate games myself, but I do understand some situation where you really want to know. But you mentioned that you play through the game in it's entirety? Isn't that a bit more than just seeing if it runs? Playing a level or two, I understand that. You want to make sure you can run the game. But playing the entire thing isn't a trial run!
[editline]28th May 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Rockeiro123;40815513]Well the whole debate is centered mostly about games, and compraing music/movies to a game isnt fair, because watching gameplay of the full version of a game isnt the same as watching the finished version of a trailer.
it's really hard to come up with a fair comparison since games are so unique.[/QUOTE]
I feel that with free services like Spotify floating around, there's little reason to pirate music.
[QUOTE]I feel that with free services like Spotify floating around, there's little reason to pirate music.[/QUOTE]
I'd heard of spotify before but never actually bothered to look it up, it actually seems like an intresting service. Kind of like a dinamic radio station.
[QUOTE=Rockeiro123;40815625]I'd heard of spotify before but never actually bothered to look it up, it actually seems like an intresting service. Kind of like a dinamic radio station.[/QUOTE]
It's pretty cool. Imagine iTunes, but instead of buying songs you stream them (with ads every couple songs). Or you can subscribe with dollar bills to remove ads and even install it on a mobile device! Tons of free social features, too.
[QUOTE=David29;40813108]Can't afford a game? Then go without it. Would you steal a chocolate bar from a shop if you were in the same situation? I suspect not. Piracy is not the alternative to being unable to buy a game - going without the game is.
I'm sure the developers would rather you actually bought the game rather than you pirating it and recommending it. Stop trying to sugarcoat what you are doing.
Two [b]major[/b] issues here:
"and most of those were either pirated"
That is a massive assumption about where I have originally heard those songs and whether or not they were pirated at the point of origin.
"or you listened to it without purchasing it- therefor its also piracy."
No... Piracy is if you obtain a [b]copy[/b] of something. Just listening to something is not piracy and if you think it is then you are an idiot.
I shall repeat myself:
"No... Piracy is if you obtain a [b]copy[/b] of something" (in a nutshell). A more correct definition is "The term "piracy" has been used to refer to the [b]unauthorized copying, distribution and selling of works in copyright.[/b]"
What you are talking about has sod all to do with piracy and I am finding it quite amusing that you are trying to argue in favour of something you clearly have no understanding of.
Except the WWW has always been a generally free service. If I enter a website, I legally do not owe anything to that person - unless I was presented with a formal declaration which I must agree to. If you feel that access to your website should be worth something, then start trying to charge people (good luck with that). Basically, one cannot 'pirate' from something that is does not legally charge.
Also, you can't compare a not-for-profit website against a big business.
Can you provide a link to said report please?
Ok, so we are establishing that you have the same moral compass as a thief then - at least we are getting somewhere.
"I have nothing better to do so I will pirate that game." - Awesome justification.
Again, assumptions and guesswork. The burden of responsibility is on you to prove that a pirated game [b]isn't[/b] a lost sales. Many times in the past I have been in positions where I have bought games I would never have normally bought, for one reason or another. There is always potential for a game to be sold and by pirating it you are taking away that potential.
Then I would take you to court for false advertisement. Customers can't complain if they fail to act on these issues.
My point was to highlight that you dishonestly benefitting from the work of others without giving anything in return. You are taking the examples far too literally and trying to compare them in exact terms. You can't. I have come to accept that theft is not the same as piracy in exact terms, but there are similarites - namely that you are getting a copy of something for nothing.[/QUOTE]
See- another problem, my whole point is that if I didnt pirate that first game, I would have never become a huge fan of crysis.
If I did not pirate that game (and couldnt buy it) I would have never had the opportunity to play it- never becoming a fan, never buying any of its games, never recommending it.
The very first game I ever bought... Command and conquer 3.
I was still quite young when it came out, and did not have the money to buy it, so I went to a shop and played it (they used to have games where you could play it on a PC in the store)... I probably played it for hours...
Whenever I could I played it, and I loved it so much that as soon as I saved up thr $90 for it I bought it.
Then I bought the kanes wrath extension... and I bough the Command and conquer 4... which was a very disapointing game.
Just because a company releases a game does not mean it will be a good one, for command and conquer 4 I should of pirated it, then bought it if I liked it, this way I would not be cheated out of $80.
Tell me- do you buy a song you NEVER heard of before just because the name sounds cool and some people like it?
Do you like dubstep because other people like it?
When you buy a song its because you like it, you listened to it before; the only way for me to play a game before I buy it is to download a pirated version of it.
Companies often lie in their gameplay videos, demos have extra features which are not in the game, and reviewers often are paid by the product they are reviewing.
The only way I can get a bias free demo is for me to download it first.
Have a look at the Aliens: Colonial Marines, gearbox, SEGA are being sued for how different the demo, and the gameplay videos are to the real game.
They are just misleading us, and telling us to pre-purchase games which we have never heard of before.
[url]http://au.ign.com/articles/2013/05/03/gearbox-sega-sued-over-aliens-colonial-marines[/url]
If you hear a preview of a song you expect it to be in the song, but what if the preview was of a different song?
What happens then?
Are you willing to pay $25 for something that may, or maynot be real?
[QUOTE=Kubar;40818841]When you buy a song its because you like it, you listened to it before; the only way for me to play a game before I buy it is to download a pirated version of it.
Companies often lie in their gameplay videos, demos have extra features which are not in the game, and reviewers often are paid by the product they are reviewing.
The only way I can get a bias free demo is for me to download it first.
Have a look at the Aliens: Colonial Marines, gearbox, SEGA are being sued for how different the demo, and the gameplay videos are to the real game.
They are just misleading us, and telling us to pre-purchase games which we have never heard of before.
[url]http://au.ign.com/articles/2013/05/03/gearbox-sega-sued-over-aliens-colonial-marines[/url]
If you hear a preview of a song you expect it to be in the song, but what if the preview was of a different song?
What happens then?
Are you willing to pay $25 for something that may, or maynot be real?[/QUOTE]
I think Colonial Marines is a unique case. These sort of things are incredibly rare. How many times have people literally been shown one thing in marketing and given a completely different thing when they buy the game? I can't think of another case. Plus the developer's reputation is in the shitter right now so I don't think another company would dare try to pull that again. I can't think of a case where a game demo had a feature that wasn't in the final release either.
Most reviewers aren't paid to favourably review bad games, again that is a teeny tiny minority. Check the Metacritic score if you want a general overview for whether it is good or not. Stick to trusted reviews or user reviews.
People buy songs because they hear them on radio or TV, or through other legal means.
[quote]Just because a company releases a game does not mean it will be a good one, for command and conquer 4 I should of pirated it, then bought it if I liked it, this way I would not be cheated out of $80.[/quote]
Making a bad purchase is not being cheated...
[QUOTE=Kubar;40818841]See- another problem, my whole point is that if I didnt pirate that first game, I would have never become a huge fan of crysis.[/QUOTE]
And? The outcome would have been exactly the same if you had bought it.
[QUOTE=Kubar;40818841]If I did not pirate that game (and couldnt buy it) I would have never had the opportunity to play it- never becoming a fan, never buying any of its games, never recommending it.[/QUOTE]
Again - assumptions about what would have happened. Clearly you had an interest in the series anyway (when why you pirated it) - you cannot say that you wouldn't have bought it a later date, perhaps when it was at a reduced price.
[QUOTE=Kubar;40818841]Just because a company releases a game does not mean it will be a good one, for command and conquer 4 I should of pirated it, then bought it if I liked it, this way I would not be cheated out of $80.[/QUOTE]
"I feel cheated out of $80 - so I will go and cheat all developers out of their time and money just so I am happy!"
I bought a peice of music on iTunes once - but it wasn't the version I wanted (even after listening to the sample). I just said "oh well, shit happens" and carried on. I [b]didn't[/b] act all self-entitled and attempt to rip off musicians by going and pirate a load of music and then attempt to justify it.
[QUOTE=Kubar;40818841]Tell me- do you buy a song you NEVER heard of before just because the name sounds cool and some people like it?
Do you like dubstep because other people like it?
When you buy a song its because you like it, you listened to it before; the only way for me to play a game before I buy it is to download a pirated version of it.[/QUOTE]
Bad analogy. In gaming terms, the only thing comparable to listening to a song is watching someone play a game. You are talking about downloading the song illegally before deciding whether to buy it or not (which you almost certainly wont).
[QUOTE=Kubar;40818841]Companies often lie in their gameplay videos, demos have extra features which are not in the game, and reviewers often are paid by the product they are reviewing.
The only way I can get a bias free demo is for me to download it first.[/QUOTE]
I have never witnessed a few of these cases - and in each case the company has suffered as a result. Personally, I have never had any problems with being given the wrong impression by videos or demos.
[QUOTE=Kubar;40818841]Have a look at the Aliens: Colonial Marines, gearbox, SEGA are being sued for how different the demo, and the gameplay videos are to the real game.
They are just misleading us, and telling us to pre-purchase games which we have never heard of before.
[url]http://au.ign.com/articles/2013/05/03/gearbox-sega-sued-over-aliens-colonial-marines[/url][/QUOTE]
See above. This is an example of how to correctly bad behaviour of game developers. Piracy is massively counter-productive.
[QUOTE=Kubar;40818841]If you hear a preview of a song you expect it to be in the song, but what if the preview was of a different song?
What happens then?[/QUOTE]
Legal action.
[QUOTE=Kubar;40818841]See- another problem, my whole point is that if I didnt pirate that first game, I would have never become a huge fan of crysis.
If I did not pirate that game (and couldnt buy it) I would have never had the opportunity to play it- never becoming a fan, never buying any of its games, never recommending it.
The very first game I ever bought... Command and conquer 3.
I was still quite young when it came out, and did not have the money to buy it, so I went to a shop and played it (they used to have games where you could play it on a PC in the store)... I probably played it for hours...
Whenever I could I played it, and I loved it so much that as soon as I saved up thr $90 for it I bought it.
Then I bought the kanes wrath extension... and I bough the Command and conquer 4... which was a very disapointing game.
Just because a company releases a game does not mean it will be a good one, for command and conquer 4 I should of pirated it, then bought it if I liked it, this way I would not be cheated out of $80.
Tell me- do you buy a song you NEVER heard of before just because the name sounds cool and some people like it?
Do you like dubstep because other people like it?
When you buy a song its because you like it, you listened to it before; the only way for me to play a game before I buy it is to download a pirated version of it.
Companies often lie in their gameplay videos, demos have extra features which are not in the game, and reviewers often are paid by the product they are reviewing.
The only way I can get a bias free demo is for me to download it first.
Have a look at the Aliens: Colonial Marines, gearbox, SEGA are being sued for how different the demo, and the gameplay videos are to the real game.
They are just misleading us, and telling us to pre-purchase games which we have never heard of before.
[url]http://au.ign.com/articles/2013/05/03/gearbox-sega-sued-over-aliens-colonial-marines[/url]
If you hear a preview of a song you expect it to be in the song, but what if the preview was of a different song?
What happens then?
Are you willing to pay $25 for something that may, or maynot be real?[/QUOTE] Two of your examples involve the actions of a young person and a form of media you can't really apply the same way you can games. Though there is YouTube (official channels) and the radio for music. Going back to being young, you can't really use age as an argument when kids don't really know better.
Halflife_123 covered Aliens already.
[QUOTE=David29;40819723]And? The outcome would have been exactly the same if you had bought it.
[/quote]
No; it would not be the same; I would have never purchase it to begin with. Just because I pirated one game does not mean I would actually purchase it.
Let’s look back a little... I love the command and conquer series; as I cannot purchase command and conquer generals alone I must buy the 'collection edition'... That includes 17 games, Command and conquer 4 (HATE it) C&C 3, kanes warth, red alert 3, uprising I already own, and paid over 80$ for each when it came out... So now I am forced to re purchase the same games already own, and just because I want that one very old game I will have to pay $40... There are many tricks like this that companies do- they stop allowing the old games to be bough, and release all of them as an 'ultimate edition' and expect me to pay $40 for 8 or so games that were all made before 2005...
At least if they were good...
[QUOTE=David29;40819723]
Again - assumptions about what would have happened. Clearly you had an interest in the series anyway (when why you pirated it) - you cannot say that you wouldn't have bought it a later date, perhaps when it was at a reduced price.
[/quote]
Nope, not interested at all in the series, I never even heard of the games before I started pirating games. It is not an assumption- it is a fact.
Back 5 or so years ago, where I had 5gb bandwith a months, a 100kb/sec(at most) download speed, I did not have the opportunity to go on youtube watch gameplay videos of it. If I didn’t start pirating games, and try to expend my horizons I would have never bought the games I did.
[QUOTE=David29;40819723]
"I feel cheated out of $80 - so I will go and cheat all developers out of their time and money just so I am happy!" [/quote]
Ahh... if only that was how it worked.
Let’s see; If Call of duty is releasing all these animations, textures, images, videos etc. you expect it to be a good FPS; but what if it is not? What if is mainly based on figuring puzzles, and a strategy game.
That’s how I felt when I played Command and conquer 4. C&C3 was about building a base, getting protection, attacking enemy, the new one... you can only create certain troops, cannot build things, and you can only change 'base's ' x amount of times per lv.
It is nothing like any of their previous games.
[QUOTE=David29;40819723]
I bought a piece of music on iTunes once - but it wasn't the version I wanted (even after listening to the sample). I just said "oh well, shit happens" and carried on. I [b]didn't[/b] act all self-entitled and attempt to rip off musicians by going and pirate a load of music and then attempt to justify it.
[/quote]
Ohh nooo... you purchased a song for 99c?
Games are not 99c; they are 80-120$ here.
Go and tell a kid with a single parent with no other family that they should gamble their $80 which it took them 2 years to get so they could purchase a game.
Those things happen all the time.
Think of the poorer communities who cannot afford to purchase a 100$ game and say "oh well"
[QUOTE=David29;40819723]
Bad analogy. In gaming terms, the only thing comparable to listening to a song is watching someone play a game. You are talking about downloading the song illegally before deciding whether to buy it or not (which you almost certainly wont).
[/quote]
No; its a perfect analogy, pirating a song is the same as listening to it without paying for it- watching a game video is not pirating- the copyright holder has allowed the person to upload that content.
If anything; you can compare watching a video game being played to reading the lyrics of a song.
How else can you pirate a song other than listening it? When you stream a song you are downloading it to a temp folder.
How about this...
If I upload a song to youtube does that mean you can listen to it and its ok? that is pirating too.
[QUOTE=David29;40819723]
I have never witnessed a few of these cases - and in each case the company has suffered as a result. Personally, I have never had any problems with being given the wrong impression by videos or demos.
[/quote]
No, but its getting worse, that was an extreme scenario; sure, but there are lots of other little tricks companies are doing.
Eg. try googling "who owns your songs when you die"
The problem with all these things is that in the older days I used to be able to give a game I finished playing to my brother, neighbour, friend.... etc etc. But now companies such as steam and EA are stopping that.
So on top of games costing more, us not being able to preview the full game, they also don’t want to allow us to give other people our games which we don’t like.
Don’t you feel that when you pay for something you should have the ability to give it to anyone you want?
If I buy my Razer mouse I can give my old one to my friend, when I finish playing a game I cannot give it to my friend, I cannot do anything with it, it has to sit in my account...
Currently there are too many laws protecting the bigger companies; when you pay for something you should be able to do whatever you want with it- even give it to anyone.
Even sell it as a '2nd hand' game.
Luckily Australia we have lots of strict laws on false advertising, cooling off period, returns, warranty etc.
[QUOTE=David29;40819723]
See above. This is an example of how to correctly bad behaviour of game developers. Piracy is massively counter-productive.[/quote]
I'm sorry, and losing money is not counter-productive for me?
[QUOTE=David29;40819723]
Legal action.[/QUOTE]
Ahh yes, if only EVERYONE had the MONEY and TIME to take people to court like they do in USA.
it’s not as simple as that buddy; I tunes can easily add a little line saying "previews of song's (songs being any audio produced from the 'play preview' option/button in the iTunes program) does not necessary mean it will be included/heard in full song (as defined above)", That right there can easily screw you, and you can’t take any legal action- after all, you did agree to the TOS right?
Luckily once again; we have a law that makes all those important bits to have to be easily accessible, bold, and not only in the TOS-- that is why you cannot add a line in font 1 saying "And you agree to pay me $10,000 every month for the rest of your life"
You have to understand; back in the older days, yes, I would 100% agree that piracy was bad, but now as the companies have become greedy, and they don’t allow me to do what I want with my purchases (ie. give them to other people)
Don’t believe me it’s getting worse?
Have a look at the Xbox one- you will need to pay a re-licensing fee to be able to play a 2nd hand games- makes people have to keep paying for the same game...
...
...
Piracy = bad
Stealing from thieves = good
[QUOTE=halflife_123;40819077]I think Colonial Marines is a unique case. These sort of things are incredibly rare. How many times have people literally been shown one thing in marketing and given a completely different thing when they buy the game? I can't think of another case. Plus the developer's reputation is in the shitter right now so I don't think another company would dare try to pull that again. I can't think of a case where a game demo had a feature that wasn't in the final release either.
Most reviewers aren't paid to favourably review bad games, again that is a teeny tiny minority. Check the Metacritic score if you want a general overview for whether it is good or not. Stick to trusted reviews or user reviews.
People buy songs because they hear them on radio or TV, or through other legal means.
Making a bad purchase is not being cheated...[/QUOTE]
Ok, so I check a review- once again, just because someone likes one game does not mean everyone will.
I actually hate BF3, and yet, thousands of people love it... COD... worst game ever created...
I do like other games, but some just don’t have what I like in them, I love FPS's; but those games I simply cannot stand; just because the reviewer likes the game does not mean I will like it.
If you read what I wrote above you will see that things are getting worse.
Sure, They have bad publicity; but why should I care? They now will make less money; it does not mean I will get my money back.
Yes, most reviewers are not paid- but they get the item/game for free (often) and most will feel gratitude and make it seems better than it is.
Sticking to trusted reviewers can help- but I often disagree with a lot of points reviews have.
And often the points they give I also disagree with.
Crysis 2 got a 86 in Gamespot, Crysis warhead got an 84...
If anything I would rate crysis 2 as a 60, and crysis warhead as 93.
Crysis 2 was extremely linear; once time you play it... and that’s it- with crysis warhead... I just finished it for the 5th time a few weeks ago and learnt a few new tricks...
Reviews don’t help me when I purchase a game; and watching videos of the game? Well that just ruins the whole game for me.
On a side note... (Just counted) I have 120 pirated games on my HDD, I have only played 12 of those, bought 9. The rest are just sitting there, and have been sitting there for years now. Just because I pirated it does not mean I will play it.
I myself am a developer, I have made quite a few applications in the past; and have made quite a bit of money of some, I know how piracy effects the money I get.
But unlike most companies I do not say "this is it, you cannot transfer the applications to another computer, allow others to use it, etc. etc.
I allow people to use it how they want to. I do not tell that if they have a multi boot with 2 or more OS's they need to purchase more licenses, or re buy the program.
A quick question- do you have an ad blocker? If so you are pirating content every time you visit every website (including mine).
Piracy does not just mean playing a game and not paying for it; it can be as simple as listening to songs from a channel that is no official on youtube, watching a re-uploaded video by someone who is not the content owner-- They are not getting the views and are not getting paid for it.
That being said, lets tackle another issue with piracy- tv shows.
Unfortuanly in many countries services such as hulu do not exist so every TV show that is in USA that we do not get to see has to be pirated.
Hell, I have watched 78 shows in the past 2 years online (pirated) Why? Because there is no way for me to get it where I live.
If there was a service such as hulu which would allow me to stream tv shows I would of had it years ago.
Same goes with games that have different release dates in different places in the world (which many do) 3 days later here? No thanks, I will just pirate it and be able to play it on the same day as everyone.
Different price for being in a different country? No thanks.
I have family in Europe, what I have found is its often much cheaper for me to send them the money, them buy me the game, and also fly it over here (retail version) and now- with the help of my Family's computers I can just buy those games from Europe just by purchasing it over their computer...
Why is this fair?
One country can pay less than others, and all I have to do is either have a server (VPN), family, or know people from another country to buy me the game...
But guess what- its against the TOS now...
On a holidiay to europe.. I still have to pay AU prices since I have an AU Account...
Moved to europe? I cant give all my games to my Europe account; and still have to pay AU prices.
How fun... companies trying to scam me everywhere I look.
[QUOTE=Kubar;40825190]No; it would not be the same; I would have never purchase it to begin with. Just because I pirated one game does not mean I would actually purchase it.[/QUOTE]
Yes it would. If you had purchased the game originally, you would have still discovered that you loved the Crysis series. And you can't prove you wouldn't have purchased it at some point. There is always the potential that you might buy a game - the only exception being if you genuinely do not want to play the game, in which case you wouldn't bother to pirate it in the first place.
[QUOTE=Kubar;40825190]Nope, not interested at all in the series, I never even heard of the games before I started pirating games. It is not an assumption- it is a fact.[/QUOTE]
"Look, a chocolate bar brand I have never heard of before! I'm going to steal it - but that is ok because I will now have an awareness of that particular brand! Everyone is a winner!"
[QUOTE=Kubar;40825190]Back 5 or so years ago, where I had 5gb bandwith a months, a 100kb/sec(at most) download speed, I did not have the opportunity to go on youtube watch gameplay videos of it. If I didn’t start pirating games, and try to expend my horizons I would have never bought the games I did.[/QUOTE]
You could download games fine but not watch videos? That sounds dubious at best. Besides, plenty of other sources of information exist which you can use.
[QUOTE=Kubar;40825190]Ahh... if only that was how it worked.
Let’s see; If Call of duty is releasing all these animations, textures, images, videos etc. you expect it to be a good FPS; but what if it is not? What if is mainly based on figuring puzzles, and a strategy game.
That’s how I felt when I played Command and conquer 4. C&C3 was about building a base, getting protection, attacking enemy, the new one... you can only create certain troops, cannot build things, and you can only change 'base's ' x amount of times per lv.
It is nothing like any of their previous games.[/QUOTE]
Again - do proper research. If money is so tight for you at the moment the logical approach would be to do as much research as possible prior to buying a game to establish it's features and whether or not it is right for you. Your example is weak because if you had done some research you would have found out how C&C4 differed from previous titles.
[QUOTE=Kubar;40825190]Ohh nooo... you purchased a song for 99c?[/QUOTE]
No. It was more than that. Don't make assumptions like that.
[QUOTE=Kubar;40825190]Games are not 99c; they are 80-120$ here.
Go and tell a kid with a single parent with no other family that they should gamble their $80 which it took them 2 years to get so they could purchase a game.
Those things happen all the time.
Think of the poorer communities who cannot afford to purchase a 100$ game and say "oh well"[/QUOTE]
Ok, now you are just sounding like a jerk.
I have no job. I am poor. I am [b]severely[/b] restricted as to what games I can buy. Have I ever regretted buying a game? Yes, once. Did I use it for justifying piracy? No.
[QUOTE=Kubar;40825190]No; its a perfect analogy, pirating a song is the same as listening to it without paying for it[/QUOTE]
What? Jesus Christ, no it's not. Pirating a song is illegally downloading a copy. What you are saying is that you are pirating music every time you listen to a song on the radio. If you actually want to continue with that argument then you are a monumental idiot.
[QUOTE=Kubar;40825190]- watching a game video is not pirating- the copyright holder has allowed the person to upload that content.[/QUOTE]
You're right. Watching a video game isn't - that's my point. However, the 'owner' of a game is not the copyright holder. They just hold a copy of the game. They do not have the right to pass a copy of the game to anyone else. If you think they do, then you need to brush up on the basics of copyright law.
[QUOTE=Kubar;40825190]If anything; you can compare watching a video game being played to reading the lyrics of a song.
How else can you pirate a song other than listening it? When you stream a song you are downloading it to a temp folder.[/QUOTE]
No. What you are talking about is obtaining a copy of the music - just like obtaining a copy of a game. You do not obtain a copy of a song by 'listening' to it - 'listening' is a biological function in which your brain makes use of your ears to process soundwaves. You must be some sort of strange cyborg if you can stream files to your computer hard drive by listening to something.
[QUOTE=Kubar;40825190]How about this...
If I upload a song to youtube does that mean you can listen to it and its ok? that is pirating too.[/QUOTE]
Negatory.
Admittedly YouTube is a grey area - but the official line from YouTube is that all music that is used in the videos is either provided directly by the original copyright holder or is allowed to be used with their permission. The fact that they do actively enforce this rule by removing audio from videos that violates this rule proves this fact. Thus people who go to YouTube and listen to music do so on the assumption that they are doing so legally.
[QUOTE=Kubar;40825190]No, but its getting worse, that was an extreme scenario; sure, but there are lots of other little tricks companies are doing.
Eg. try googling "who owns your songs when you die"
The problem with all these things is that in the older days I used to be able to give a game I finished playing to my brother, neighbour, friend.... etc etc. But now companies such as steam and EA are stopping that.
So on top of games costing more, us not being able to preview the full game, they also don’t want to allow us to give other people our games which we don’t like.
Don’t you feel that when you pay for something you should have the ability to give it to anyone you want?
If I buy my Razer mouse I can give my old one to my friend, when I finish playing a game I cannot give it to my friend, I cannot do anything with it, it has to sit in my account...
Currently there are too many laws protecting the bigger companies; when you pay for something you should be able to do whatever you want with it- even give it to anyone.
Even sell it as a '2nd hand' game.
Luckily Australia we have lots of strict laws on false advertising, cooling off period, returns, warranty etc.[/QUOTE]
Game reselling is a grey area for me and I'm not sure if I am for or against it. All I will say is that it is only acceptable as long as the original owner does not hold onto a copy of the game after resale/giving it away.
[QUOTE=Kubar;40825190]I'm sorry, and losing money is not counter-productive for me?[/QUOTE]
Actually, I was referring to the millions of people who are being inconvenienced by shitty DRM. Yes, the games developers and publishers are responsible for making the shitty DRM and they share some of the blame - but ultimately you are the root cause. Think about it - you are part of the reason why bad DRM exists.
I swear to God, if I ever catch you bitching about DRM...
[QUOTE=Kubar;40825190]Ahh yes, if only EVERYONE had the MONEY and TIME to take people to court like they do in USA.
it’s not as simple as that buddy; I tunes can easily add a little line saying "previews of song's (songs being any audio produced from the 'play preview' option/button in the iTunes program) does not necessary mean it will be included/heard in full song (as defined above)", That right there can easily screw you, and you can’t take any legal action- after all, you did agree to the TOS right?
Luckily once again; we have a law that makes all those important bits to have to be easily accessible, bold, and not only in the TOS-- that is why you cannot add a line in font 1 saying "And you agree to pay me $10,000 every month for the rest of your life"
You have to understand; back in the older days, yes, I would 100% agree that piracy was bad, but now as the companies have become greedy, and they don’t allow me to do what I want with my purchases (ie. give them to other people)
Don’t believe me it’s getting worse?
Have a look at the Xbox one- you will need to pay a re-licensing fee to be able to play a 2nd hand games- makes people have to keep paying for the same game...[/QUOTE]
Then do something else - something more proactive than piracy. Boycott their games. Bitch to the developers and publishers if you have to. It does work (see EA reference SimCity 5).
[QUOTE=Kubar;40825190]...
...
Piracy = bad
Stealing from thieves = good[/QUOTE]
No. Piracy = bad[b].[/b] Full stop. There is no justification for piracy. It hurts sales - and there is no evidence that the weak justifications you presented (e.g. recommendations) actually offset this enough to not make it an issue (or if they offset it at all). It hurts everyone - and incidentally the people who get hurt most are the ones who deserve to be hurt the least (such as indie developers and the average Joe honest customer).
You say you can't afford games - then wait until the prices drop. You say you don't know what the game is like - then do some research. Ultimately, piracy is the product of greed, lack of patience and a refusal to take responsibility.
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